Opening Day For Maryland Bear Hunt

Opening Day For Maryland Bear Hunt

There are 39 comments on the WUSA Washington, DC story from Oct 22, 2007, titled Opening Day For Maryland Bear Hunt. In it, WUSA Washington, DC reports that:

OAKLAND, Md. -- Maryland's black bear season began 30 minutes before sunrise this morning in Garrett and Allegany counties.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at WUSA Washington, DC.

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Tom McAndrew

United States

#22 Oct 25, 2007
I would like to hear from a hunter that can explain someting to me that I don't understand. Where is the enjoyment in the shooting and killing of an animal? I understand the part about experiencing nature, venturing into the silent woods before dawn, etc., but that can all be done without taking along a weapon. What is enjoyable about the specific act of shooting and killing an animal?
Tom McAndrew

United States

#23 Oct 25, 2007
I have a question for the hunters for which I never seem to get a direct answer. What is enjoyable about shooting and killing an animal? I'm not talking about the whole idea of experiencing nature and so forth, hunters and non-hunters alike enjoy this; but the specific act of shooting and killing an animal. At some point you are going to spot your prey, raise your gun or bow, take aim and shoot. You are then going to approach an animal that may not even be dead yet, probably bleeding profusely and gasping for its last breath. I ask you, what is enjoyable about this? Again, please restrict your answer to the specific act of shooting and killing.
Tom McAndrew

United States

#24 Oct 25, 2007
Sorry. Looked like the first post didn't take. Had to recompose.

Since: Feb 07

Washington, DC

#25 Oct 26, 2007
Tom McAndrew wrote:
I have a question for the hunters for which I never seem to get a direct answer. What is enjoyable about shooting and killing an animal? I'm not talking about the whole idea of experiencing nature and so forth, hunters and non-hunters alike enjoy this; but the specific act of shooting and killing an animal. At some point you are going to spot your prey, raise your gun or bow, take aim and shoot. You are then going to approach an animal that may not even be dead yet, probably bleeding profusely and gasping for its last breath. I ask you, what is enjoyable about this? Again, please restrict your answer to the specific act of shooting and killing.
Most hunters will agree that they enjoy hunting whether they harvest an animal or not. Being able to enjoy nature and spend quality time with our parents or children trumps everything.
In several cases I've donated the meat to homeless shelters. There are several organizations that do this and the shelters really appreciate the program.

So Tom, to recap, I keep my sons on the straight and narrow by teaching them about the outdoors and respect for nature and the environment. Just as my father did me and his father did him. I help conservation efforts by purchasing a hunting/fishing license (most of the cost goes to the state to fund conservation efforts) and I help feed the homeless with my harvest.

What have you done Tom? What makes you so self rightous?
Tom McAndrew

United States

#26 Oct 26, 2007
1bad,

You can justify your killing any way you want. I asked about the SPECIFIC ACT OF SHOOTING AND KILLING AN ANIMAL. What is enjoyable about that? Why will no hunter ever directly answer that question?
Good Luck

Rockville, MD

#27 Oct 26, 2007
Tom McAndrew wrote:
1bad,
You can justify your killing any way you want. I asked about the SPECIFIC ACT OF SHOOTING AND KILLING AN ANIMAL. What is enjoyable about that? Why will no hunter ever directly answer that question?
Tom,
You're whacked. He answered your question.
Tom McAndrew

United States

#28 Oct 26, 2007
Good Luck wrote:
<quoted text>
Tom,
You're whacked. He answered your question.
Good Luck,

Please cut and paste the part where he answers the quetion about what is enjoyable about the SPECIFIC ACT OF SHOOTING AND KILLING AN ANIMAL.
Sean P

Sterling, VA

#29 Oct 26, 2007
Tom McAndrew wrote:
1bad,
You can justify your killing any way you want. I asked about the SPECIFIC ACT OF SHOOTING AND KILLING AN ANIMAL. What is enjoyable about that? Why will no hunter ever directly answer that question?
It seems like you are looking for someone to get angry at you and argue. Does that make you happy? Are you "hunting" for a response? What makes that so enjoyable?

I guess I will bite...a little.

The question you are asking is taking an act out of the context where it becomes justified. Is it right or wrong? I'm not here to argue that point. I'm here to answer your question.

First you have to refrain from defining an activity by the 1% of it which is killing an animal. The shooting and killing of the animal is not the be all and end all of the activity. Hunting starts way before and carries on way after the shot and kill. To take the entire experience out of the picture you loose site of the meaning.

To ignore this fact would be the same as defining a dinner party with friends and family by just looking at the work that went into the meal or the stack of dirty dishes. If you look at just that portion of the entire experience it would seem unbeneficial to have a dinner party that created so much work. But when looked at in context you see the good times had and the benefit out weighs the work that went into the act.

The same goes for hunting. If you want to boil it down to just shooting and killing an animal, then yes, it may seem sadistic. But that is not what the act reveals when looked at in its entirety. To ignore this you are not looking for a real answer, you are looking for a question to lead you to the answer you already formulated.

The enjoyment does not come form a single act but rather the entire experience gained from planning to having that dinner party with friends and family with the game you have harvested. If that were not the case you would have hunters shooting their dogs all day long. If it were only about killing you would have more hunters just staying home and shooting their dogs.
Tom McAndrew

United States

#30 Oct 26, 2007
Sean P wrote:
<quoted text>
It seems like you are looking for someone to get angry at you and argue. Does that make you happy? Are you "hunting" for a response? What makes that so enjoyable?
I guess I will bite...a little.
The question you are asking is taking an act out of the context where it becomes justified. Is it right or wrong? I'm not here to argue that point. I'm here to answer your question.
First you have to refrain from defining an activity by the 1% of it which is killing an animal. The shooting and killing of the animal is not the be all and end all of the activity. Hunting starts way before and carries on way after the shot and kill. To take the entire experience out of the picture you loose site of the meaning.
To ignore this fact would be the same as defining a dinner party with friends and family by just looking at the work that went into the meal or the stack of dirty dishes. If you look at just that portion of the entire experience it would seem unbeneficial to have a dinner party that created so much work. But when looked at in context you see the good times had and the benefit out weighs the work that went into the act.
The same goes for hunting. If you want to boil it down to just shooting and killing an animal, then yes, it may seem sadistic. But that is not what the act reveals when looked at in its entirety. To ignore this you are not looking for a real answer, you are looking for a question to lead you to the answer you already formulated.
The enjoyment does not come form a single act but rather the entire experience gained from planning to having that dinner party with friends and family with the game you have harvested. If that were not the case you would have hunters shooting their dogs all day long. If it were only about killing you would have more hunters just staying home and shooting their dogs.
Thank you all for making my case. Not one of you has directly answered the question. You could have your whole experience while toting a camera instead of a gun.

I also like the euphemism "harvested". Like a bear is the same as an ear of corn. Gimme a break.

Since: Feb 07

Washington, DC

#31 Oct 27, 2007
Tom McAndrew wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you all for making my case. Not one of you has directly answered the question. You could have your whole experience while toting a camera instead of a gun.
Yes I could do it with a camera and I would feel the same way when I pushed the button on a camera as I do when I pull a trigger.
Sean P

Sterling, VA

#32 Oct 27, 2007
Tom McAndrew wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you all for making my case. Not one of you has directly answered the question. You could have your whole experience while toting a camera instead of a gun.
I also like the euphemism "harvested". Like a bear is the same as an ear of corn. Gimme a break.
Tom, I'm going to make the assumption that you are a vegetarian/vegan? Correct me if I'm wrong.

And what I was saying is that you are asking a question that can't be answered in the context that you specify. The shooting and killing is not the sole object of the activity but merely a part of it. No one wants to answer the question out of the context of the hunting experience since their answer will be misconstrued and distorted to make your point.

The greatest enjoyment does not come out of the shooting or killing but out of the entire experience. Something I guess you can't understand when you have already made a decision that it's wrong to you.

Since: Feb 07

Washington, DC

#33 Oct 27, 2007
Sean P wrote:
<quoted text>
No one wants to answer the question out of the context of the hunting experience since their answer will be misconstrued and distorted to make your point.
That's exactly what he's fishing for. He's already made up his mind. So no matter how his "question" is answered, it will be taken out of context and misconstrued to fit his opinion.
Good Luck

Rockville, MD

#34 Oct 27, 2007
Tom McAndrew wrote:
<quoted text>
Good Luck,
Please cut and paste the part where he answers the quetion about what is enjoyable about the SPECIFIC ACT OF SHOOTING AND KILLING AN ANIMAL.
I can't cut and paste anything, you got me on that one! You don't like hunting...fine. I don't "enjoy" Nascar, but many do. Each person has the right to "enjoy" different things. Get over it, and find something in life to enjoy.
Tom McAndrew

United States

#35 Oct 27, 2007
Guys, settle down. You got me outnumbered. I'm just trying to understand the mindset of someone who enjoys shooting and killing.

I'm getting the response that the experience as a whole must be considered; not any single part of that experinece.

Let me try an analogy. I like to go to a ballgame now and then. I enjoy supporting my team, wearing my favorite player's jersey, tailgating, socializing with friends, talking about the game and punching the guy next to me in the face at some point. I enjoy the whole experience. Please don't ask me why I enjoy any one of these things. That would be taking things out of context.

It seems that you want to justify any specific behavior, by putting it under the umbrella of a broader behavior. So as long as you paint with the broad brush, you don't have to answer for any SPECIFIC behavior. Well, Mussolini made the trains run on time.
Sean P

Sterling, VA

#36 Oct 27, 2007
Tom McAndrew wrote:
Guys, settle down. You got me outnumbered. I'm just trying to understand the mindset of someone who enjoys shooting and killing.
I'm getting the response that the experience as a whole must be considered; not any single part of that experinece.
Let me try an analogy. I like to go to a ballgame now and then. I enjoy supporting my team, wearing my favorite player's jersey, tailgating, socializing with friends, talking about the game and punching the guy next to me in the face at some point. I enjoy the whole experience. Please don't ask me why I enjoy any one of these things. That would be taking things out of context.
It seems that you want to justify any specific behavior, by putting it under the umbrella of a broader behavior. So as long as you paint with the broad brush, you don't have to answer for any SPECIFIC behavior. Well, Mussolini made the trains run on time.
Do you expect us to eat the animal alive? Should we gather around the animal, give it a big hug, read it a story, and then administer a sedative followed by a lethal dose of methel-ethel-death? Or should be just buy it from a store that puts it in nice wrappers for us? Wait, maybe you would suggest not eating meat at all since it is murder (albeit tasty, tasty murder)...I guess you will need to let us know the answer that will satisfy you on this one.

Let me give it another shot. I like to kill animals because it makes me feel powerful and gives my prick a real nice tingle.

Or I used to torture animals all the time when I was a kid. I would do it while secretly wearing my mother's girdle and green eye shadow. It made me feel more like a man when dressed as a woman.

Or killing animals satisfies my primal urge and connects me to the savage beast inside. Does that fit what you were looking for?

You see we all don't look at it as an enjoyable act. I guess we don't find it to be terribly unpleasant either. It is just what is done.

And your analogy is weak. If you are trying to liken shooting an animal to punching someone in the face you are an idiot. By punching a person in the face your sole intention is out of anger and to inflict pain. When shooting an animal your sole intention is to kill the animal in the most quick and humane manner. I'm not going out trying to hurt a bear, moose, deer, elk. I'm trying to kill it as quickly as possible with as little suffering as possible for the animal. Big difference.

Your soap box seems a little rickety, better try another one.
1badf350 - not logged in

Louisa, VA

#37 Oct 28, 2007
Tom McAndrew wrote:
Guys, settle down. You got me outnumbered. I'm just trying to understand the mindset of someone who enjoys shooting and killing.
I'm getting the response that the experience as a whole must be considered; not any single part of that experinece.
Let me try an analogy. I like to go to a ballgame now and then. I enjoy supporting my team, wearing my favorite player's jersey, tailgating, socializing with friends, talking about the game and punching the guy next to me in the face at some point. I enjoy the whole experience. Please don't ask me why I enjoy any one of these things. That would be taking things out of context.
It seems that you want to justify any specific behavior, by putting it under the umbrella of a broader behavior. So as long as you paint with the broad brush, you don't have to answer for any SPECIFIC behavior. Well, Mussolini made the trains run on time.
Tom you like ball games, so do I.
You like ball games no matter what, but how do you feel when you're at the ball game and your favorite player hits a grand slam to win the game? That's kinda like hunting. You enjoy it no matter what, but when you're successful, it's like the icing on the cake. Got it?
Tom McAndrew

United States

#38 Oct 28, 2007
Last post for me. I think you guys made some wrong assumptions about me. I am not a whacko, far left tree hugger. I'm really quite moderate in most of my opinions.

The original topic was about bear hunting in Maryland. I considered the facts, looked at the issue from both sides and came to the conclusion that this particular hunt was unnecessary. No, I do not like hunting, but that does not mean I oppose it in all circumstances. For instance, there is little doubt that our deer population would be out of control without a hunting season. So until I have a better solution, I will kep my mouth shut.

What I was trying to do was gain some insight into why someone enjoys killing animals. "Sean P" offered some answers quite facetiously. Whether any of that could really be true or not, I do not know. I hope not. The rest of you never directly answered the question. In fact, no hunter I've ever known has ever directly answered that question.

Getting back to the original issue, until it is demonstrated to me that Maryland has a bear problem and that that problem cannot be solved by any other means, I will continue to oppose the bear hunt.

Thank you gentlemen for a spirted debate.

Since: Feb 07

Washington, DC

#39 Oct 29, 2007
Tom McAndrew wrote:
I still have not heard the answer I'm looking for.
Sorry we couldn't help you with that.
Sean P

United States

#41 Oct 29, 2007
Tom McAndrew wrote:
Getting back to the original issue, until it is demonstrated to me that Maryland has a bear problem and that that problem cannot be solved by any other means, I will continue to oppose the bear hunt.
Funny how hunting is acceptable if it takes care of a "problem" (real or perceived) but not if someone is doing it for recreation/sustenance. I guess it's all up to how cute and cuddly vs. how many you might hit on your drive to and from work.

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