Obeying The Gospel
First Prev
of 2
Next Last
Scott

Axton, VA

#1 Feb 25, 2010
According to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, the gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8 says, "..the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those “who do not obey the gospel” of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power."

So, how does someone obey the gospel (death, burial and resurrection of Christ?)

Since: Oct 08

Danville, VA

#2 Feb 25, 2010
Take a bath then condemn anything that moves and breaths that does not see scripture as you do? Then use a double standard for those who in fact disagree but are in the same denomination as you and call them erring brethren and thus try and hide the splinters in your denomination, Jesus called that the log in your own eye, while condemning others and actively seeking to increase the divisions in other denominations and thus going after the speck? Shall I go on, perhaps crying out when you trap another in a lie while justifying your own lies with the misapplication of the old testament scriptures to show deceptive ways are ok as long as you have the right sign on your building!!

IS that the answer? It seems to be so from what I see in the Church of Johnny.
Scott

Axton, VA

#3 Feb 26, 2010
Okay. Let me dumb this down best I know how.

If baptism is not the place we contact the blood of Christ, when does a sinner come into forgiveness? When is a sinner added to the body? Does not Peter say after one repents and after one is baptized? How hard can this be to understand?

Can one be forgiven before one repents?

The thief on the cross was not forgiven until he threw himself at the mercy of Jesus. Shall we not do the same and obey the gospel in baptism. Baptism completes the process, not creates life. You can no more be saved apart from repentance as you can not apart from baptism. They both are ending acts of faith in Jesus unto forgiveness of sins.
Jeremiah

Celina, TX

#4 Mar 1, 2010
How do I become a servant of Christ?

(Rom.6:16-18)

1. Decide who to serve (vs) 16

2. Obey that form of doctrine delivered you. vs (17)

3. Being then made free from sin ,ye become servants of righteousness (Christians). vs (18)

Most people will tell you obedience has nothing to do with becoming a Christian, but what does the verse above say?

That doctrine delivered them was spoken of in (Rom.6:3-6). Being buried (immersed in water for the forgiveness of sins) with Christ and being raised (out of the water) to walk in newness of life.(a Christian).(Acts 8:38,39)(2Cor.5:17)

That is the simple gospel plan.

No "sinner's prayer" found in those verses. In fact the "sinner's prayer" is not found in the NT (after the death of Jesus upon the cross).

So why do thousands of preachers continue to teach the "Sinner's prayer" as a way to become a servant of righteousness (Christian)?

Have they not checked the NT to see if the "sinner's prayer" is found therein?(Acts 17:11)(John 5:39)(1John 4:1-6).

Many trusted who ever taught them. It is that simple. So test (check up) on everyone teaching you a bible lesson. It just may save your soul.

Of course one must believe (John 8:24), Repent (Luke 13:3), Confess (Mt.10:32), Be immersed in water for the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38 ; 22:16), then live for Jesus (2Cor.3:18)(Rev.2:10)(1Cor.15: 58).

searchingfortruth.org

Since: Oct 08

Danville, VA

#5 Mar 1, 2010
Cornilius was already walking in God's will before the arrival of Peter, Peter's retelling on the events in Acts 10, do not jive with the complete picture given by the recorder of Acts.

Acts 10: 3About (E)the [c]ninth hour of the day he clearly saw (F)in a vision (G)an angel of God who had just come in and said to him, "Cornelius!"

4And (H)fixing his gaze on him and being much alarmed, he said, "What is it, Lord?" And he said to him, "Your prayers and [d]alms (I)have ascended (J)as a memorial before God.

5"Now dispatch some men to (K)Joppa and send for a man named Simon, who is also called Peter;

6he is staying with a tanner named (L)Simon, whose house is by the sea."

Acts 10:22They said, "Cornelius, a centurion, a righteous and (AA)God-fearing man well spoken of by the entire nation of the Jews,(AB)was divinely directed by a (AC)holy angel to send for you to come to his house and hear (AD)a message from you."

Hear a message from you, nothing about salvation in this statement!

Acts 10:30Cornelius said, "(AN)Four days ago to this hour, I was praying in my house during (AO)the [h]ninth hour; and behold,(AP)a man stood before me in shining garments,

31and he said,'Cornelius, your prayer has been heard and your alms have been remembered before God.

32'Therefore send to (AQ)Joppa and invite Simon, who is also called Peter, to come to you; he is staying at the house of Simon the tanner by the sea.'

33"So I sent for you immediately, and you have been kind enough to come. Now then, we are all here present before God to hear all that you have been commanded by the Lord."

Again no statement of salvation in Cornelius' explanation of the events.

The rest of Acts 10 is about Peter telling them the events they already know about!

37you yourselves know the thing...

8"You know of (AY)Jesus of Nazareth, how God...

39"We are (BC)witnesses of all the things He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem They also (BD)put Him to death by hanging Him on a cross.

The above he confirms what they already knew that Peter was a witness!

Since: Oct 08

Danville, VA

#6 Mar 1, 2010
Continues.....

40"(BE)God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible,

41(BF)not to all the people, but to (BG)witnesses who were chosen beforehand by God, that is, to us (BH)who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead.

42"And He (BI)ordered us to preach to the people, and solemnly to (BJ)testify that this is the One who has been (BK)appointed by God as (BL)Judge of the living and the dead.

43"Of Him (BM)all the prophets bear witness that through (BN)His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."

44While Peter was still speaking these words,(BO)the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message.

45(BP)All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been (BQ)poured out on the Gentiles also.

46For they were hearing them (BR)speaking with tongues and exalting God. Then Peter answered,

47"(BS)Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who (BT)have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?"

48And he (BU)ordered them to be baptized (BV)in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to stay on for a few days.

In the above Peter tells them that Jesus is the Messiah, that he died and was raised, did they already know, perhaps they had heard the rumors of this event. Perhaps not, either way the simple questions remain, where is Peter's statement in Acts 11 in Acts 10??

Acts 11:13"And he reported to us how he had seen the angel standing in his house, and saying,'Send to Joppa and have Simon, who is also called Peter, brought here;

14and he will speak (L)words to you by which you will be saved, you and (M)all your household.'

Now here is where it gets scary for you to consider, did Peter embellish the events? Or did the recorder of Acts 10 leave out the events as recorded in Acts 11?

My conclusion is that a man who's prayers are being heard, who is called righteous and devout is already in right standing with God, because he is doing what God had commanded him to do, would he be saved if he refused baptism? NO!!

Why, because he would no longer be following God's will for his life.

So did Peter retell the story the same way it was told in Acts 10? If you are honest you will answer no, if you are going to do the churchy spin doctoring then you will answer yes.

And if you are going to try that then prove to us that the translation has failed to tell Acts 10 accurately and show me the Greek that says what Peter claims Cornelius to have said!

Since: Oct 08

Danville, VA

#7 Mar 1, 2010
By your teaching would Cornelius have gone to hell if he had died before Peter's call for water?

Since: Oct 08

Danville, VA

#8 Mar 1, 2010
And what roll does the Holy Spirit play in your salvation?
By Grace Through Faith

Martinsville, VA

#9 Mar 2, 2010
So we correctly sometimes say he or she was “baptized into Christ”. Of course we speak figuratively just as we do when we eat the bread and drink the cup. We are not literally eating the body of Christ or drinking His blood. We know that we receive Him by faith, not by physical eating. The symbols are not nearly as important as what they represent. We might eat unleavened bread, a cracker, or some other bread. And, we likely drink Welch’s grape juice, or perhaps even wine, but not literal blood. So the elements of the supper, when we commune with our Lord and His people, only represent His body broken for us and His blood shed for us until He comes. It is not a literal eating and drinking of his body and blood.



In my view, water baptism is much the same. We are not literally dying when we go under the water, we are symbolically dying. We are “baptized into His death” in a figurative way, we are not literally dead as He was. We are symbolizing our death to self and sin and our being raised to live the new life He gives. Thus it was necessary for Paul to say right after he talked about being “baptized into His death”,“reckon yourselves to be dead”(Romans 6:11). We are baptized “for the remission of our sins” by submitting to immersion in the watery grave of baptism.

Just as Adam was our head before we became Christians so now Christ is the “new Adam”, our federal head. As in Adam all die, so in Christ all live (1 Corinthians 15:22). Because Christ is now our representative, when He died we died with Him (2 Timothy 2:11), and when He was raised we were raised with Him. Baptism is a beautiful and holy reenactment of those truths. Thus our eternal salvation was completed before we were born, completely outside of us or our abilities.“This is a faithful saying: For if we died with Him,We shall also live with Him.”(2 Timothy 2:11)

When we come to God’s open book we should come with an open heart. Unless we are willing to be shaped by it, both in what we believe and practice, we will miss many of its truths. We should be careful to not give more weight to a thing than the Bible does. Some Bible truths are more important than others (1 Corinthians 15:3, Hebrews 6:1) and we should assign the same importance to them the Bible does as best we can.(This makes all the fuss about singing in worship pretty silly..)

The mission of the followers of Jesus has not changed since He gave the great command “make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you”. If we are faithful to do this we have done well. It is not our job to “convert”, win debates with sinners, but to preach the good news about what Jesus has accomplished for them in the power of the Holy Spirit. It is worthy of noting that the reason we can “go” and “make disciples” is because He has all authority and power in heaven and on earth. We go in his name, his authority, to tell the good news and then baptise and teach those who believe with all their hearts.
Randy

Martinsville, VA

#10 Mar 2, 2010
walkinginlove wrote:
By your teaching would Cornelius have gone to hell if he had died before Peter's call for water?
I never have heard a good explanation on this. Typically the answer is that they were unforgiven prior to baptism and only spoke in tongues so Peter would know God had accepted the Gentiles.

I would love to see what Johnny and Shawn say here.

Randy
3-3-10
8:41pm

Since: Oct 08

Danville, VA

#11 Mar 3, 2010
Randy wrote:
<quoted text>
I never have heard a good explanation on this. Typically the answer is that they were unforgiven prior to baptism and only spoke in tongues so Peter would know God had accepted the Gentiles.
I would love to see what Johnny and Shawn say here.
Randy
3-3-10
8:41pm
And I will keep asking the simple question until I get an answer, and considering I am dealing with the people who claim to always give an answer..... hmmmm
Sproul

Axton, VA

#12 Apr 16, 2010
Cornilius was already walking in God's will before the arrival of Peter, Peter's retelling on the events in Acts 10, do not jive with the complete picture given by the recorder of Acts.

Acts 10: 3About (E)the [c]ninth hour of the day he clearly saw (F)in a vision (G)an angel of God who had just come in and said to him, "Cornelius!"

4And (H)fixing his gaze on him and being much alarmed, he said, "What is it, Lord?" And he said to him, "Your prayers and [d]alms (I)have ascended (J)as a memorial before God.

5"Now dispatch some men to (K)Joppa and send for a man named Simon, who is also called Peter;

6he is staying with a tanner named (L)Simon, whose house is by the sea."

Acts 10:22They said, "Cornelius, a centurion, a righteous and (AA)God-fearing man well spoken of by the entire nation of the Jews,(AB)was divinely directed by a (AC)holy angel to send for you to come to his house and hear (AD)a message from you."

Hear a message from you, nothing about salvation in this statement!

Acts 10:30Cornelius said, "(AN)Four days ago to this hour, I was praying in my house during (AO)the [h]ninth hour; and behold,(AP)a man stood before me in shining garments,

31and he said,'Cornelius, your prayer has been heard and your alms have been remembered before God.

32'Therefore send to (AQ)Joppa and invite Simon, who is also called Peter, to come to you; he is staying at the house of Simon the tanner by the sea.'

33"So I sent for you immediately, and you have been kind enough to come. Now then, we are all here present before God to hear all that you have been commanded by the Lord."

Again no statement of salvation in Cornelius' explanation of the events.

The rest of Acts 10 is about Peter telling them the events they already know about!

37you yourselves know the thing...

8"You know of (AY)Jesus of Nazareth, how God...

39"We are (BC)witnesses of all the things He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem They also (BD)put Him to death by hanging Him on a cross.

The above he confirms what they already knew that Peter was a witness!
Noble Berean

Martinsville, VA

#13 Apr 16, 2010
God imputes righteousness unto us and that righteousness which God imputes unto us is the righteousness whereby we are justified, for it is imputed unto us that we may be justified; — but we are justified by the obedience and blood of Christ:“By the obedience of ONE we are made righteous,”

“Much more now being justified by his blood,”

“He hath put away sin by the sacrifice of himself,”
Seeking Truth

Celina, TX

#14 Apr 18, 2010
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.(Acts 11:14)

What did Cornelius have to hear before he could be saved? Words (the gospel message)

What was he commanded to do?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord....(Acts 10:48)

he commanded them to be baptized
he commanded them to be baptized
he commanded them to be baptized

Why were they commanded to be baptized?

(Acts 2:38)(Acts 22:16) gives us the simple answer.

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,...

16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

What kind of baptism is being spoken of in these passages?(Acts 8:38,39).

38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

Water immersion for the remission of sins.

*****

http://searchingfortruth.org

Seeking Truth

Celina, TX

#15 Apr 18, 2010
The beginning of the NT law for the Jews was in (Acts 2).

The beginning of the NT law for the Gentiles was in (Acts 10). Some 10 years later.

The Lord said he was going to name His people after the Gentiles seen the righteousness of God. That happened in (Acts 10). The Lord named His people in (Acts 11:26). Note (Isa.62:2).

2 And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.

This shows the Lord was in control of how "all flesh" (Jew and Gentile) came into the New Testament times.

28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:(Joel 2:28)

So the OT ended for the Jews in (Acts 2).

The OT ended for the Gentiles in (Acts 10).

This was all according to the plan of God.

*******

Is the Abolition of the Ten Commandments Ridiculous?

http://www.christiancourier.com/articles/658-...
For Those

Celina, TX

#16 Apr 18, 2010
What cleanses man sins when he is baptized in water?
The blood of Jesus (Rev.1:5)(Eph.1:7).

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Man sins are forgiven much like Naaman's leprosy was cleansed WHEN he obeyed the prophet by dipping 7 times in the river Jordan. Or the same way that the blind man in (John 9) received his sight WHEN he washed in the pool of Siloam.

Was it the water which healed Naaman and the blind man? Of course not. But if they were going to be healed they were going to have to obey the commands down to 7 ducks in water of the Jordan and washing in the pool of Siloam.

******

The Unique Church

http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2246

******

http://thetruthinlove.com/
Noble Berean

Martinsville, VA

#17 Apr 18, 2010
Seeking Truth wrote:
14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.(Acts 11:14)
What did Cornelius have to hear before he could be saved? Words (the gospel message)
What was he commanded to do?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord....(Acts 10:48)
he commanded them to be baptized
he commanded them to be baptized
he commanded them to be baptized
Why were they commanded to be baptized?
(Acts 2:38)(Acts 22:16) gives us the simple answer.
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,...
16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
What kind of baptism is being spoken of in these passages?(Acts 8:38,39).
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
Water immersion for the remission of sins.
*****
http://searchingfortruth.org
Ok, you want to dialog, then explain the double standards that the church of Christ uses.
Thankful for grace

Dallas, TX

#18 Apr 18, 2010
Nova, do you get paid to continue to push man-made propaganda? Do you get some kind of commission for continuing to push the same sites over and over again, which are not just preaching the Bible, but man-made agendas? It seems like they must cut you something for as much as you use it...and then continue to claim the Bible speaks for itself...sure doesn't seem like it speaks loud enough for you. I know why...
Noble Berean

Martinsville, VA

#19 Apr 18, 2010
Thankful for grace wrote:
Nova, do you get paid to continue to push man-made propaganda? Do you get some kind of commission for continuing to push the same sites over and over again, which are not just preaching the Bible, but man-made agendas? It seems like they must cut you something for as much as you use it...and then continue to claim the Bible speaks for itself...sure doesn't seem like it speaks loud enough for you. I know why...
Nova should research those links before posting. All do not agree on the Holy Spirits role. I guess he didn't think I would know that ;)

Nova, since Shawn is supposedly "farming other fields" perhaps you can explain the double standards used within the Church of Christ. You know there is even disagreement on divorce and remarriage within the conservative sects and this is clearly doctrinal. Shawn already has said many times that you guys "agree to disagree" as to whether the Holy Spirit resides personally or only by the written Word. Gotta love them double standards!

Since: Oct 08

United States

#20 Apr 18, 2010
Seeking Truth please show me in acts 10 where what Peter said in acts 11 is? I don't see it! Does Peter know all that God knows at this time? Could it be that Peter did not have the full picture since God was still having to teach him as happened in Acts 10.

The problem you have is explaining how a man who's prayers are a memorial to God was still hell bound till Peter spoke and had him baptized.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 2
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Oak Level Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
dr.joel smithers 17 hr YEPP 4
the church of Christ insider discussion boards (Aug '10) Jan 28 William 10
My girl Jan '17 The wonderer 1
Is there anything to do here??? Bored..... Jan '17 ATTheWizard85 1
Church of Christ rules and principles (Apr '13) Dec '16 Credal Drone 306
THE CHILDREN of THE GOD MOST HIGH (May '14) Dec '16 randy 6
thomas jefferson edwards (Apr '16) Oct '16 NUKS67 3

Oak Level Jobs

More from around the web

Personal Finance

Oak Level Mortgages