Atheists sue to keep 'In God We Trust' off Capitol Visitor Center - Yahoo! News

A California Republican congressman wants to do a little writing on the walls of Washington's newest federal building.

[Registered Guest]

I'm sure this is going to cause some heat on here, since there are several Atheists on here. So I posted it, wanting to know, why is it wrong to engrave this on a federal building? This country was founded on Christianity. Whether you choose to believe in it or not, is your right, under your freedom. But why stop something that is an American tradition, and has been on everything since the start of the United States of America? Do the words being put on a federal building force you to believe? Does it make you feed forced to follow Christianity? What is the problem?

[Guest]

You are wrong on so many levels, it's impossible for me to know where to start.

[roadkill0]

Atheists have no right to vote or even testify in court, anyway. I say, down with Atheism!!

[What--]

Registered Guest wrote:

I'm sure this is going to cause some heat on here, since there are several Atheists on here. So I posted it, wanting to know, why is it wrong to engrave this on a federal building? This country was founded on Christianity. Whether you choose to believe in it or not, is your right, under your freedom. But why stop something that is an American tradition, and has been on everything since the start of the United States of America? Do the words being put on a federal building force you to believe? Does it make you feed forced to follow Christianity? What is the problem?

You are factually wrong about this country being founded on Christianity -- that simply is not the case (and I will cite one example of proof below):

The Treaty of Tripoli was sent to the floor of the Senate on June 7, 1797, where it was read aloud in its entirety and UNANIMOUSLY approved -- and President John Adams signed it into law.

It says:

"The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

[Registered Guest]

What-- wrote:

<quoted text>
You are factually wrong about this country being founded on Christianity -- that simply is not the case (and I will cite one example of proof below):
The Treaty of Tripoli was sent to the floor of the Senate on June 7, 1797, where it was read aloud in its entirety and UNANIMOUSLY approved -- and President John Adams signed it into law.
It says:
"The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."

OK, but you still didnt answer the question on why it's such a huge deal to have these words on a building? I am not bashing. I simply want to understand the other side of this, and point of view.

[What--]

Registered Guest you are also factually wrong about "In God We Trust" always being on everything.

Our money didn't have at on it until the Civil War in 1864 (the founders and many generations afterwards used Godless money)-- and it didn't become the "official motto of the U.S." until 1956.

"Under God" wasn't originally in the Pledge of Allegiance either -- it was added in 1954.

[What--]

As for the problem with it -- try (among other things) the very first sentence of the Bill of Rights (the 1st Amendment):

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

[Registered Guest]

What-- wrote:

Registered Guest you are also factually wrong about "In God We Trust" always being on everything.
Our money didn't have at on it until the Civil War in 1864 (the founders and many generations afterwards used Godless money)-- and it didn't become the "official motto of the U.S." until 1956.
"Under God" wasn't originally in the Pledge of Allegiance either -- it was added in 1954.

Ok but still answer my question without your factual stuff.

[World is an oyster]

What is wrong with having these words on federal buildings is that it puts forth the idea that this country has an established religion and we do not. You ask if this forces a person to follow a religion and I must ask you in return, would you be ok, as a Christian, with the words "In Allah We Trust"?

[What--]

Some of the founders actually wanted wanted religious language of founding in the Constitution -- and they failed (afterwards many of them tried to stop the ratifying of the Constitution because of it and they failed yet again).

[What--]

On top of that -- many of the most influential founders, like Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, etc. were deists (not Christians).

----------

"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors."

-- Thomas Jefferson in a letter to John Adams

...when Jefferson said "the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter" in the quote above -- he was referring to an ancient Greek fable which held that the goddess of wisdom, Minerve, literally came out of her father's brain (Jupiter) fully grown (and dressed in armor)...

----------

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church. All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."

-- Thomas Pain from his book "The Age of Reason"

[guest 03]

off subjet...sorry...but what-- i was wondering lol if ya wanted to talk more with me off topix....jw...lol

[What--]

Registered Guest wrote:

<quoted text>
Ok but still answer my question without your factual stuff.

I was dealing with your other questions and everything (there was a lot of them in that paragraph lol)-- but sure!

Registered Guest wrote:

Do the words being put on a federal building force you to believe? Does it make you feed forced to follow Christianity? What is the problem?

The issue isn't that it forces anyone to believe anything (no one is arguing that)-- it violates the "establishment clause" of the first sentence of the Bill of Rights (not the "free exercise" clause that comes afterwards).

[What--]

World is an oyster wrote:

What is wrong with having these words on federal buildings is that it puts forth the idea that this country has an established religion and we do not. You ask if this forces a person to follow a religion and I must ask you in return, would you be ok, as a Christian, with the words "In Allah We Trust"?

Exactly as well! Also, I accidentally went on a little mini-rant in this thread lol! I haven't wandered into a political thread in months.

[Free America-]

Registered Guest wrote:

<quoted text>
Ok but still answer my question without your factual stuff.

You must understand... when What-- answers a question you gotta get threw the Jibba Jabba before the point is made...

[What--]

Free America- wrote:

<quoted text>
You must understand... when What-- answers a question you gotta get threw the Jibba Jabba before the point is made...

I forgot to LOL @ how she asked me to answer her questions without "facts!"

[Guest]

Registered Guest wrote:

<quoted text>
OK, but you still didnt answer the question on why it's such a huge deal to have these words on a building? I am not bashing. I simply want to understand the other side of this, and point of view.

I'll answer from my viewpoint:
It's no big deal, either way.
As a Christian, I won't miss it if it does not appear there, but others may prefer, for their own reasons, for it not to appear.
It will not make the building Christian to appear and it won't make the building un-Christian to not be there.
Churches serve that purpose just fine. I don't need to force my beliefs on anybody else.

[Proud]

The point is..........the words are not hurting anyone, it is just a bunch of non belivers trying to get one up on the Christians of this nation, its not about rights, or making anyone do anything, it is about power, it is about making a organization of people who will make such an impact on this nation thru the courts trying to remove God from everything.......would it not be an awesome thing if Christians spread the word of God, told about Jesus with as much zeal as the non belivers to in their belife? Think about the great difference there would be in this world it the Christian people proclaimed their faith loud and proud? Todays world is not like the world of our parents, morals were instilled, if you messed up you were punished, now it is considered child abuse or surpressing the childs need to express themself.........yes, the world has sadly changed in its teachings......I for one am not ashamed to proclaim Jesus is my Lord and Savior.

[What--]

guest 03 wrote:

off subjet...sorry...but what-- i was wondering lol if ya wanted to talk more with me off topix....jw...lol

Sure -- I'll try to think of a place to post my email address where as few people as possible will see it lol.

[ahaha]

World is an oyster wrote:

What is wrong with having these words on federal buildings is that it puts forth the idea that this country has an established religion and we do not. You ask if this forces a person to follow a religion and I must ask you in return, would you be ok, as a Christian, with the words "In Allah We Trust"?

Well apparently you don't know that Allah is the arabic word for God. My friend and his family are all arabic, and he told me this and everyone else. Therefore, it just means In God We Trust. So try again buddy. By the way, my friend is muslim, and said that it means God, its just their name for him.