Marin Voice: Desalination is not the solution

[sink]

has anyone heard where they plan on dumping the toxic waste?

[Cal native]

sink wrote:

has anyone heard where they plan on dumping the toxic waste?

in our sinks

[Cal native]

Jim wrote:

<quoted text>
It's smart people like you that really liven up the debate.

LOL

[sink]

Cal native wrote:

in our sinks

As I understand, you are either saying that the toxic waste will flow from your faucets or you propose hand delivering satchels of the toxic sludge door to door in hopes that people will in fact pour it down the drain in your sinks. It's clear that by following that plan of yours that the toxins will over time condense into a highly concentrated super toxin. Nasty. Weird plan either way as well. You'd be dead in no time, let alone a dog day.

[Cal native]

sink wrote:

<quoted text>
As I understand, you are either saying that the toxic waste will flow from your faucets or you propose hand delivering satchels of the toxic sludge door to door in hopes that people will in fact pour it down the drain in your sinks. It's clear that by following that plan of yours that the toxins will over time condense into a highly concentrated super toxin. Nasty. Weird plan either way as well. You'd be dead in no time, let alone a dog day.

I was being sarcastic, mostly.
You are assuming that all the toxins will be removed by the plant. they cannot be removed by Reverse Osmosis .

[BGHOZ]

Whatever happened to that Nonsense person?

[Sophocles]

So, Sink and Jim hate being held accountable for their comments. Both of them have said that conservation - and specifically rainwater catchment - is the solution that MMWD should pursue, and not desalination. Yet, they provide no support for their plan, other than vague references to water flowing to the Bay and ostensibly scary stories about toxins in the Bay. They have no facts to refute the data that exists that shows that there are minimal levels of contaminants in the Bay and there are absolutely none to be found in water treated with reverse osmosis. Plus, they don't even know the first thing about MMWD deliberations or even when or where its meetings are. They just spew their inanities here, where they have little import.

Cal Native - you are wrong about reverse osmosis. Check your allegations against the facts from any desalination plant - it produces the highest quality water in the world.

[sink]

Sophocles wrote:

Both of them have said...

Please stop and think before posting your weirdo stalker drivel. Many folks have brought up numerous solutions from gray water to cisterns. Not just Jim and I. Why you have formed such a lust for us two is however quite creepy. But overlooking that, I suggest you take the time and (re)read the threads on this topic as you are clearly lax (blind) at retaining information. You could even attempt to answer the many questions using real world factual data. Or continue doing what you are doing as it's kind of entertaining how you define yourself by trying to define us.

[Jim]

Sophocles wrote:

So, Sink and Jim hate being held accountable for their comments. Both of them have said that conservation - and specifically rainwater catchment - is the solution that MMWD should pursue, and not desalination. Yet, they provide no support for their plan, other than vague references to water flowing to the Bay and ostensibly scary stories about toxins in the Bay. They have no facts to refute the data that exists that shows that there are minimal levels of contaminants in the Bay and there are absolutely none to be found in water treated with reverse osmosis. Plus, they don't even know the first thing about MMWD deliberations or even when or where its meetings are. They just spew their inanities here, where they have little import.
Cal Native - you are wrong about reverse osmosis. Check your allegations against the facts from any desalination plant - it produces the highest quality water in the world.

Jeez, you're still barking up the wrong tree.

MMWD has been using catchment since day one. We are proposing an enhanced system that catches and diverts the abundance of rain water the floods the Ross Valley.

You on the other hand keep spouting off about systems designed for desert countries... desalination. A highly suspect system for our region and our record of rainfall.

Time to remove the blinders and see the light!

Oh, not only do I attend MMWD meetings, I also have a mailing list of 1700 progressives in Marin that get notified of important deliberations.

[BGHOZ]

Cal native wrote:

<quoted text>
in our sinks

Missed that one, perty funny.

[Pulipaca]

Cal native wrote:

<quoted text>
I was being sarcastic, mostly.
You are assuming that all the toxins will be removed by the plant. they cannot be removed by Reverse Osmosis .

The places that use treated sewage for drinking water like Las Vegas and Orange County also run the treated sewer water through an ultra-violet filter, that is supposed to kill any bacteria, but won't filter all the chemicals in treated sewage.
The Russian River has treated sewage dumped into it also, but the water is percolated underground and drawn from wells before being treated in Sonoma and Novato. That seems to be an effective way to pre treat sewer water. The San Francisco bay area has 32 sewer treatment plants that dump 750 million gallons per day of treated sewage, and as we all know, spills of untreated sewage as well.
And then there are the mom and pop chrome plating plants in Richmond that also dump toxics into the bay. You know that they love those 50 inch chrome wheels over there. And there is also the .......... etc.

[sink]

Cal native wrote:

I was being sarcastic, mostly.

I figured and was having fun with that.

[Yes it is]

Desalination IS the solution!!!

...but the NIMBYS will whine and cry and make all kinda nasty, hate filled slanderous condescending accusations, trying to convince someone - anyone -of their brilliance, while their angst knaws at and threatens their narcissistic one-ness.

[Cal native]

Pulipaca wrote:

<quoted text>The places that use treated sewage for drinking water like Las Vegas and Orange County also run the treated sewer water through an ultra-violet filter, that is supposed to kill any bacteria, but won't filter all the chemicals in treated sewage.
The Russian River has treated sewage dumped into it also, but the water is percolated underground and drawn from wells before being treated in Sonoma and Novato. That seems to be an effective way to pre treat sewer water. The San Francisco bay area has 32 sewer treatment plants that dump 750 million gallons per day of treated sewage, and as we all know, spills of untreated sewage as well.
And then there are the mom and pop chrome plating plants in Richmond that also dump toxics into the bay. You know that they love those 50 inch chrome wheels over there. And there is also the .......... etc.

Yeah, it's the chems that worry me the most. They are the hardest to remove. Even if there is a way to remove them it's not cost effective and and won't likely be in any desal plant. As to the sewage, as bad as it is at least it's better now than it was in the 70's. The house boats and docked boats all use to dump directly into the bay. I remember them doing that in the house boat I lived on in greenbrae as well. That tall peaked roof one out near the end.

[sink]

Here is a good article (and resource) from yesterday on the state of our countries water:

http://projects.nytimes.com/toxic-waters

Since municipalities can not handle making what we do have potable it's very clear that they will not succeed at purifying what we do not have. Desalination should be off the table completely until they can at least clean what we do have. Then perhaps they can talk about how to power it. What to do with the waste. So on and so forth.

[sink]

Yes it is wrote:

...!...!

You don't even understand the problem.

[sink]

Hundreds of contaminants found in our nations tap water, more than half have no safety standards:

http://www.ewg.org/tapwater/findings.php

There are thousands in the San Francisco Bay.

[sink]

Contaminants in the Bay include things such as hormone-disrupting chemicals:

http://www.ewg.org/reports/downthedrain

[nits]

sink wrote:

<quoted text>
You don't even understand the problem.

You don't understand the solution.

[sink]

nits wrote:

...

Interesting. Please do tell us, what is your solution to the Desalination problem/s?

For example, how will you power it today and in the future (and please provide real world wattage)? What will you do with all the toxic sludge that you coalesce during the process (is this a long term or short term solution and how so)? How will you altogether pay for the scheme in both the long term and short term? How can you guarantee a potable product when your source that you plan on trying to refine is so very dynamic and increasingly tainted? Keep in mind that if you can't measure it then you simply can not manage it. There are a lot more questions but those should get you started. Thanks in advance.