Long Beach man sentenced for killing ...

Long Beach man sentenced for killing his AA sponsor

There are 159 comments on the Long Beach Press-Telegram story from Nov 6, 2008, titled Long Beach man sentenced for killing his AA sponsor. In it, Long Beach Press-Telegram reports that:

A 29-year-old Long Beach man was sentenced to more than 50 years to life in prison Thursday for the 2006 shooting death of his Alcoholics Anonymous sponsor.

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LLF

Los Angeles, CA

#1 Nov 6, 2008
Just a bit more than help was needed and I guess he showed em!

“How the hell do you change ”

Since: Aug 08

your location? I don't live in

#2 Nov 6, 2008
This is very sad. You try to help someone out and end up dead.
adriana

United States

#3 Nov 6, 2008
he will rot in jail for life and rot in hell after that. justice.
mikeblamedenial

Salem, MI

#6 Nov 6, 2008
There are no rules in the AA program. There is no such thing as an AA sponsor in training. AA sponsorship is without qualification, oversight or recourse. The facts in this case are tragic enough, without adding fabrication or fairy-tale.
Kelly B

Westminster, CA

#7 Nov 6, 2008
It sounds like you need a meeting. No need to bite someones head off. Do you think that people outside the program really understand all of the details of how it works? I think what he meant was that this was his first or one of his first sponsees, and he felt the need to go his own sponsor to get a little ESH (experience, strength, and hope)in how to deal with him. We are all learning day by day.
mikeblamedenial wrote:
There are no rules in the AA program. There is no such thing as an AA sponsor in training. AA sponsorship is without qualification, oversight or recourse. The facts in this case are tragic enough, without adding fabrication or fairy-tale.
mikeblamedenial

Salem, MI

#8 Nov 6, 2008
Sounds like you need to start telling the truth.
Kelly B wrote:
It sounds like you need a meeting. No need to bite someones head off. Do you think that people outside the program really understand all of the details of how it works? I think what he meant was that this was his first or one of his first sponsees, and he felt the need to go his own sponsor to get a little ESH (experience, strength, and hope)in how to deal with him. We are all learning day by day.
<quoted text>
Kelly B

Westminster, CA

#9 Nov 6, 2008
I am hearing more blame and denial then serenity and sobriety. That's the truth. Why the anger? Did you understand the program from day one? Do you expect others to understand the nuances when even we struggle with it? How about the conundrum of how does AA stay organized with no rules only traditions? That confused me for a while. You are assuming bad intent, "fabrication" and "fairytale". Hanlon's Razor is the best explanation here...
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
mikeblamedenial wrote:
Sounds like you need to start telling the truth.
<quoted text>
Kelly B

Westminster, CA

#10 Nov 6, 2008
Substitute "misinformed" for "stupidity"
mikeblamedenial

Piqua, OH

#11 Nov 6, 2008
Name calling adds nothing to your premise. I repeat, AA sponsorship is without qualification, regulation, training, or oversight. True or not true?
Kelly B wrote:
I am hearing more blame and denial then serenity and sobriety. That's the truth. Why the anger? Did you understand the program from day one? Do you expect others to understand the nuances when even we struggle with it? How about the conundrum of how does AA stay organized with no rules only traditions? That confused me for a while. You are assuming bad intent, "fabrication" and "fairytale". Hanlon's Razor is the best explanation here...
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
<quoted text>
Kelly B

Westminster, CA

#13 Nov 6, 2008
Nothing in AA has any permanent structure only tradition, suggestion and the concepts of service. I was not debating that. I was wondering why you assume bad intent when misinformation is more likely. Again why the anger?
mikeblamedenial wrote:
Name calling adds nothing to your premise. I repeat, AA sponsorship is without qualification, regulation, training, or oversight. True or not true?
<quoted text>
mikeblamedenial

Piqua, OH

#14 Nov 6, 2008
The "You seem angry" harp lost its effectiveness years ago. Anything else I can help you with?
Kelly B wrote:
Nothing in AA has any permanent structure only tradition, suggestion and the concepts of service. I was not debating that. I was wondering why you assume bad intent when misinformation is more likely. Again why the anger?
<quoted text>
Kelly B

Westminster, CA

#15 Nov 6, 2008
Not really. But since you have been hearing it for years it might be something to address in a 10th step reflection, or possibly you missed something in your 4th. Good luck and god bless you.
mikeblamedenial wrote:
The "You seem angry" harp lost its effectiveness years ago. Anything else I can help you with?
<quoted text>
Margaret N

Los Angeles, CA

#16 Nov 6, 2008
mikeblamedenial wrote:
The "You seem angry" harp lost its effectiveness years ago. Anything else I can help you with?
<quoted text>
Although everyone is entitled to their opinions, it is truly pathetic that you are using this forum to lash out at others, and badly, I might add. Maybe you need to look beyond this being an "A.A." issue, and see it as an incident between a man with issues and a man who tried to help him.
Just to clear the air, this was NOT Uriel's first sponsee, or even close to his first. The DA was either misquoted, or mispoke. Nonetheless, it is time for Scott to spend his life on reflecting about what he has done. And it is time for the family to (try) to move on.
Jim

Los Angeles, CA

#17 Nov 6, 2008
Maybe he had been drinking.
Kelly B

Westminster, CA

#18 Nov 6, 2008
I had friends who knew Uriel, though I never had the pleasure to know him personally. He was described as a good man by all. I hope that his family finds peace. God bless and keep all of us in such difficult times.
Margaret N wrote:
<quoted text>
Although everyone is entitled to their opinions, it is truly pathetic that you are using this forum to lash out at others, and badly, I might add. Maybe you need to look beyond this being an "A.A." issue, and see it as an incident between a man with issues and a man who tried to help him.
Just to clear the air, this was NOT Uriel's first sponsee, or even close to his first. The DA was either misquoted, or mispoke. Nonetheless, it is time for Scott to spend his life on reflecting about what he has done. And it is time for the family to (try) to move on.
Ken Ragge

Los Gatos, CA

#19 Nov 6, 2008
Kelly B wrote:
Substitute "misinformed" for "stupidity"
Kelly, I have to say I agree with you. This guy obviously doesn't know that sponsors are expected to have worked all 12 Steps and not had a drink in at least a year, quite often more. Doesn't mikeblamedenial understand that having turned over one's will and life and having worked the rest of the Steps gives an A.A. sponsor everthing he needs to be a sponsor? He doesn't need any training. He has acquired conscious contact with God, he knows God's Will from working the Steps.

You are correct. That writer doesn't understand the Program at all. He doesn't understand that the sponsor is driven to follow God's Will, not his own will, since he has turned over his own will and life to God in the Third Step. If a sponsor is following God's Will instead of his own, as proven by not having had a drink in a year or two, a true miracle, of course he is qualified to sponsor those who haven't yet worked the Steps and is confused by spritual principles. Of course he is qualified to extract confession of sins or defects of character, same thing, and gossip with whoever he wants if it is God's Will.

Mikeblamedenial doesn't understand that the life-saving grace of God flows through the world arteries of A.A. People who haven't worked the Steps and gone to Step groups meetings have no business bad rapping God's spiritual, not religious program. Next thing you know, he'll bring up the supposedly scientific research that shows A.A. doesn't work to help people stop drinking. Maybe he'll bring up the research of Harvard psychiatrist, Al-Anon and A.A. board member George Vaillant and tell how this A.A. leader's own research shows no help in stopping drinking but an increased death rate, probably by suicide for those who go to A.A. versus those who didn't go.

Of course what he will fail to tell, is that George Vaillant had a perfect explanation for this. Like the Fountain at Lourdes, A.A. is a spiritual treatment. Just like any other spritual treatment for any disease, A.A. can't work if one doesn't believe if. Can you imagine that someone who is sent to one of Benny Hinn's crusade complaining of not being cured when the only problem was he didn't believe? All those who go to A.A. and die, it is their own fault. If they believed in God at all, they believed in an inferior concept and an inferior pathway to God from some religion rather than the perfect spiritual Program of Alcoholics Anonymous as the way to find God.

And I might also add, that mikeblamedenial doesn't understand that A.A. is purely spiritual and not religious. Unlike religions, A.A. does not require beliefs. A.A. has no need to require beliefs and there are no "musts." Anyone who does't follow the spiritual beliefs of A.A. will die, either that or they aren't *real* alcoholics.

And besides, why did this Scott Gordon Reynolds guy get so mad about his deepest, darkest secret being blabbed about? I can't imagine that he made it all the way to working the Fifth Step and hadn't heard other peoples' Fifth Steps being gossiped about. The man was obviously a case of terminal uniqueness, which anyone who has worked the Steps and gone to just a few meetings is characteristic of alcoholics. Everyone knows that one never criticizes those with Time or even has negative thoughts about them.

If a woman who is gang raped or a man whose life has been wrecked by being molested by a priest as a child can follow direction from their sponsor and make amends to the perpetrators, Reynolds too could have done what he was supposed to, kept his own side of the street clean, and apologized to his sponsor for being angry with him for gossiping.
mikeblamedenial

Goodwater, AL

#20 Nov 7, 2008
"Pathetic" is mischaracterizing facts which may, in fact, be relevant in a terrible tragedy. One man is dead, one going to prison for the rest of his days, both as a direct result in their involvement in AA, and that involvement is then minimized by misinformation, possibly by a principle in the case, in a public forum. In order to be entitled to an opinion, one should at least be able to formulate that opinion with factual information. You are angry with me for telling the truth about AA sponsorship, and nothing else.

Margaret N wrote:
<quoted text>
Although everyone is entitled to their opinions, it is truly pathetic that you are using this forum to lash out at others, and badly, I might add. Maybe you need to look beyond this being an "A.A." issue, and see it as an incident between a man with issues and a man who tried to help him.
Just to clear the air, this was NOT Uriel's first sponsee, or even close to his first. The DA was either misquoted, or mispoke. Nonetheless, it is time for Scott to spend his life on reflecting about what he has done. And it is time for the family to (try) to move on.
mikeblamedenial

Goodwater, AL

#21 Nov 7, 2008
You seem confused. This is a public forum, not an AA meeting. You might want to speak English since most readers don't likely understand steppese. Luck and blessings to you, as well.
Kelly B wrote:
Not really. But since you have been hearing it for years it might be something to address in a 10th step reflection, or possibly you missed something in your 4th. Good luck and god bless you.
<quoted text>
LBJJ

Mission Viejo, CA

#23 Nov 7, 2008
mikeblamedenial wrote:
"Pathetic" is mischaracterizing facts which may, in fact, be relevant in a terrible tragedy. One man is dead, one going to prison for the rest of his days, both as a direct result in their involvement in AA, and that involvement is then minimized by misinformation, possibly by a principle in the case, in a public forum. In order to be entitled to an opinion, one should at least be able to formulate that opinion with factual information. You are angry with me for telling the truth about AA sponsorship, and nothing else.
<quoted text>
Actually Mikey, the article states that the shooter was upset that the victim had revealed to others that the shooter was gay.

If you think you've identified the problem, make the choice: continue to be the problem or become part of the solution.

I hear there's an opportunity in Long Beach...
hockley

Spring, TX

#24 Nov 7, 2008
LBJJ

Stifle yourself. Mikey? grow up.

I take note of this: not one word of condolence from you to the vidtim's family?
Is there is a reason for that? Explain that to yourself, not to me.

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