Should illegal immigrants get tuition breaks?

[Hold please]

dirtbag1958 wrote:

Who said illegal immigrants have rights?

On a basic level, everyone has rights. Even the detainees at Gitmo had rights.

dirtbag1958 wrote:

Chicago Sun Times just had the 15 Most Wanted in Chicago, 11 were hispanic and 8 of them were are illegal immigrants.

Wow, there's so much to deal with here, where to start?
1. According to the Chicago Police website, Chicago's Most Wanted Fugitives are a pretty even mix of people. I'm not sure where the Sun-Times got their info, but I'm not totally surprised it's wrong.
2. The 15 you saw might have been from the Chicago FBI, and when I checked their page, I did see predominance for Hispanics. I also saw that many of them are being charged with conspiracy, which says to me that they're all accused of conspiring on the same act.
3. Look at the names for violent crime. A more blended mix.
Look deeper than what your favorite newspaper writes. Crimes are committed by people, whether they're rich or poor, man or woman, young or old. And heritage DEFINITELY has nothing to do with it.

dirtbag1958 wrote:

Mayor Daley has made Chicago an Sanctuary City…

I did know that. And do you know what it means? It means that you cannot be deported for being arrested for committing a crime. More importantly, while I don't agree with the practice in and of itself, there are some merits to the idea. The main one is that, if there is no fear of deportation, immigrants would feel more comfortable working with the police. Regardless, there's nothing that says someone cannot be deported if they are reported directly to the ICE. It's just that the Chicago Police are not responsible for the task.

dirtbag1958 wrote:

Why don't you report the illegal immigrant? Don't you love this Country? or are you using illegal immigrants to work for you…people who defend illegal immigrants have use them as workers…

I think you just answered your own question.

dirtbag1958 wrote:

Because the illegal immigrant is here illegally…possessions should be Confiscated.

Again, doesn't matter. Maybe you could work it in under racketeering laws, but that's a stretch. Besides, they could just say that they're on vacation (albeit a long one) and these are things they purchased during that time. Think about all the duty-free stuff you bought when you went on vacation. How would you like the governments of those nations to take your stuff back because it could be argued you were there "illegally".

dirtbag1958 wrote:

If illegal immigrants are deported and they tell their countryman that they had all this money and possessions until they got busted and deported with nothing it will make a difference. Many might not come here illegally; instead the immigrant will wait their turn and come here legally.

Keep telling yourself that and some day you will be the only one who believes it.

dirtbag1958 wrote:

and Since you are from Illinois do you know how much illegal immigrants has cost the State…

Again, I'm not denying that illegal immigration isn't a problem. I'm just telling you that your gestapo tactics haven't worked for the "drug war" and they're not going to work now. They're not going to be a deterrent.

dirtbag1958 wrote:

[QUOTE who="dirtbag1958"]…o btain legal work status...tax collections might increase…likely would be outweighed by increased use of public services…in addition, the possibility for family members…to come to the United States…would increase the size of the…population using public services.

Note the language: "...might increase...", "...likely would be...", "...possibility for..." There's nothing that says any of these scenarios would occur.

dirtbag1958 wrote:

So it will pay for itself to deport ALL illegal immigrants…

The reward for who? For us? I saw nothing about cost in your post.

[dirtbag1958]

The savings of 3 Billion dollars for Illinois Taxpayers.

[dirtbag1958]

gestapo tactics, We already have safety checks in Illinois, Papers please.LOL Now if we put a bus there to take the illegal immigrant to a holding center to get them deported. and I don't believe in breaking up Family's so the whole family should be Deported anchor baby's too.

[NWGuy]

dirtbag1958 wrote:

Poor people? I guess those illegal immigrants I saw with the New Pick-up wasn't their truck? Latino's should have practice birth control. and Why do I care what happens to their country when we Deport them, their own country didn't care when they left. and Who said it has to be done overnight? It is an start, and most of illegal immigrants will self deport when this will become Law. The United States Government need laws to discourage the illegal immigrant from coming here.

We care, because we are America.

In the Balkans we even went to war over humanitarian treatment - the first time in world history that has happened.

We don't set out standards by looking to the other country and behaving as badly as they behave.

[NWGuy]

Hold please wrote:

<quoted text>
[...]
In FY2006, ICE increased in the number of deportations to 185,431
Number of illegals entering the nation in FY2006: 700,000
As you can see, this isn't going to work.
[...]

Great point.

If ICE can figure out how to stop the influx of new illegals they will have accomplished something major. That will involve many thousands of deportations, a new system of visa tracking, some amount of policing of employers, and other stuff.

Expecting them to do that AND try to deport 10 (or??) million people living among us is just nuts. They already have a nearly impossible task that will require them to grow significantly and to come up with a bunch of bright new ideas.

[NWGuy]

dirtbag1958 wrote:

Who said illegal immigrants have rights?[...]

Our constitution gives all people within our borders rights.

It gives citizens more rights, but non-citizens have rights, too.

Remember that there are serious issues regarding prisoners we captured or bought from war lords in Iraq and Afg. A major part of the reason that these people were warehoused in Gitmo was a lame attempt by Bush to deny them the rights they would have if they were in prison in the USA. Of course, it doesn't work that way, because Gitmo is considered part of the USA - thus the Supreme Court rulings against Bush.

[NWGuy]

dirtbag1958 wrote:

Who said illegal immigrants have rights? Chicago Sun Times just had the 15 Most Wanted in Chicago, 11 were hispanic and 8 of them were are illegal immigrants. Mayor Daley has made Chicago an Sanctuary City, and I thought you knew that.? and why don't you report the illegal immigrant? Don't you love this Country? or are you using illegal immigrants to work for you or because illegal immigrants are here that is why you have a job? Most people who defend illegal immigrants have use them as workers, for their church, and need to have a job. Because the illegal immigrant is here illegally that is why the illegal immigrant possessions should be Confiscated. If illegal immigrants are deported and they tell their countryman that they had all this money and possessions until they got busted and deported with nothing it will make a difference. Many might not come here illegally, instead the immigrant will wait their turn and come here legally. and Since you are from Illinois do you know how much illegal immigrants has cost the State?Costs of Illegal Immigration to Illinoisans
[...]

In post 3721 I stated several problems with this approach.

Do you have any response to those problems?

[dirtbag1958]

NWGuy wrote:

<quoted text>
In post 3721 I stated several problems with this approach.
Do you have any response to those problems?

What problems, doing nothing is a problem. So 80% of illegal immigrants are latino, even the spanish-americans want the illegal immigrants deported and my idea of Confiscate will work, send them back to their country Broke will help discourage them from coming back. Poor people yea that a good one.lol Are you such a racist that you think the illegal immigrant are all poor? Lets be real, this is a good idea that helps pay for deporting and discourage others from coming here if they know they could lose everything. Only thing I hear from you is amnesty which over 70% of UNITED STATES CITIZENS don't want. I rather have ICE do their job and rights. I don't believe that the illegal immigrant should have any rights, they have invade the United States of America and as Citizen of this Great Nation we need to Deport the illegal immigrant "ALL OF THEM".

[dirtbag1958]

Just think when we Deport the illegal immigrants; Crime will go Down, Unemployment will go Down, and the Social services will go Down. Least Taxpayers money going to the Social Services. United States Citizens will have jobs and will pay Taxes, less on welfare. You might have to find some United States Citizen to mow your yard or wash your dishes. You might have to pay more for the meat you might eat. Illegal immigrants work at meat packing plants, just in case you didn't know. I don't understand I hear people that say United States Citizens won't do that job. But every time ICE do their job and Raid these places of work United States Citizens are lining up to do this work. and One more thing 8 ICE black suburbans stop at Denny's to eat breakfast in Rockford, it didn't take long when hundreds of illegal immigrants left town. The FEAR factor of the illegal immigrant losing everything will make them want to deport themselves.

[NWGuy]

dirtbag1958 wrote:

Just think when we Deport the illegal immigrants; Crime will go Down, Unemployment will go Down, and the Social services will go Down. Least Taxpayers money going to the Social Services. United States Citizens will have jobs and will pay Taxes, less on welfare. You might have to find some United States Citizen to mow your yard or wash your dishes. You might have to pay more for the meat you might eat. Illegal immigrants work at meat packing plants, just in case you didn't know. I don't understand I hear people that say United States Citizens won't do that job. But every time ICE do their job and Raid these places of work United States Citizens are lining up to do this work. and One more thing 8 ICE black suburbans stop at Denny's to eat breakfast in Rockford, it didn't take long when hundreds of illegal immigrants left town. The FEAR factor of the illegal immigrant losing everything will make them want to deport themselves.

You haven't countered any of the reasons that no US congress is gong to deport any signifiant percentage of those here illegally.

Let's just start again with one of the problems. Mexico can not handle 10M jobless, homeless people. And, the US will not choose to cause the humanitarian disaster that will occur if we send that many such people to that nation.

Since Mexico is 1/3 our population it would be a little like us getting 30 million additional jobless homeless people, except for two points. We're rich and we have an effective government. They have neither.

As we've seen, having only 10M people who are marginally employed and have places to live is a horrendous problem for us. It would be far, far worse than only 3 times as bad for Mexico. Undoubtedly there would be numerous Gitmos worth of refugee camps to build. Again, the US will choose not to cause such a humanitarian disaster.

[tampabayallstar]

We have more power than you folks think. Its obvious both sides of the aisle will not do much.. Though I have to admit the record on Clinton and Obama has been better than the GOP as far as rounding up illegals. ICE under Obama had a huge bust in MN. I digress. We need these big corps to be accountable. Especially the telecommunications company that starts with V. As a nation, We know many of these big corps that are pork barreling our public servants. We should not do business with these companies. After illegal wiretap, I made a personal vow not to ever use V. I have not . I had them for both cell and landline. The point being, If we can not vote with our vote, we can vote with our dollars. This is a war. Lets stop these lowlife pieces of crap, once and for all.

[still passing through]

Cite a reference where the United States declared War in the Representive asemblies against any former Jugoslavia State.As War was not declared , you statement of such is incorrect.I seriously doubt the Vast majority of US citizens at the time, or now["cared". I would note the state of Croatia the UN "defended" at the time is just as Guilty atroicities, and was a Nazi ally in WW2 which teaches the same Idiology then as they do now

NWGuy wrote:

<quoted text>
We care, because we are America.
In the Balkans we even went to war over humanitarian treatment - the first time in world history that has happened.
We don't set out standards by looking to the other country and behaving as badly as they behave.

[Gab]

tampabayallstar wrote:

We have more power than you folks think. Its obvious both sides of the aisle will not do much.. Though I have to admit the record on Clinton and Obama has been better than the GOP as far as rounding up illegals. ICE under Obama had a huge bust in MN. I digress. We need these big corps to be accountable. Especially the telecommunications company that starts with V. As a nation, We know many of these big corps that are pork barreling our public servants. We should not do business with these companies. After illegal wiretap, I made a personal vow not to ever use V. I have not . I had them for both cell and landline. The point being, If we can not vote with our vote, we can vote with our dollars. This is a war. Lets stop these lowlife pieces of crap, once and for all.

Yeah.
This administration is really tough on illegals.
At one time they were rightfully called illegal aliens,then illegal immigrants,then undocumented immigrants and now,in all of Napoitano's infinite wisdom,newly arrived asylum seekers.
Sounds like they're really puttin the hammer down.

[tampabayallstar]

In 9 and half months Obama has rounded up more illegals than GWB did in his last year by about 1000. Clintons record on illegals is well documented as being a good one. I admit economy was much better globally and I concede , like the GOP Clinton was in tank for failed NAFTA. Pat Buchanan, a far rightist in his book has stated Clinton has done better than W, hardly a liberal source. Have a great day and remember to boycott V, the telecommunications company. They are perhaps the worst when it comes to hiring illegals and looking the otherway.

[Ray]

Bush didn't want to round up the illegals, because his buddies in "Big Bidness" wanted the cheap labor and the compliant workers. I was a lifelong Republican until W. came along.

[dirtbag1958]

NWGuy wrote:

<quoted text>

Let's just start again with one of the problems. Mexico can not handle 10M jobless, homeless people. And, the US will not choose to cause the humanitarian disaster that will occur if we send that many such people to that nation.
Since Mexico is 1/3 our population it would be a little like us getting 30 million additional jobless homeless people, except for two points. We're rich and we have an effective government. They have neither.

What do you mean the Country is not rich? The Oil they have and one of the 3rd. riches man in the world is a mexican that live in mexico. Please know your FACTS. the biggest Problem in mexico is the drug cartel that send their members to United States to set-up business in drug distribution and the corruption in mexico. Mexico is a parasite that also take money from United States, claiming they need it to fight the drug cartel. they are just a bunch of crooks in mexico. It is all about the mighty dollar and greed.

[Hold please]

dirtbag1958 wrote:

<quoted text>
What do you mean the Country is not rich? The Oil they have and one of the 3rd. riches man in the world is a mexican that live in mexico. Please know your FACTS. the biggest Problem in mexico is the drug cartel that send their members to United States to set-up business in drug distribution and the corruption in mexico. Mexico is a parasite that also take money from United States, claiming they need it to fight the drug cartel. they are just a bunch of crooks in mexico. It is all about the mighty dollar and greed.

1. Let's start here:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-...
As you can see, not only is Mexico NOT third in production, but it's not even in the top 5. Canada produces more oil than Mexico does.
Also, Mexico ranks 12th in GDP, putting them right between Italy and Spain. Unfortunately, they're also 168th in the world for GDP growth, at about 1.3%. Long story short, while they're not a Third-World country, they're nowhere near as wealthy as some.
So don't start giving someone grief about facts until you know them yourself.

2. The biggest problem in Mexico is not the Cartels, but the government, especially the local government. The government is corrupt and they're not doing anything to grow the businesses in the Nation. Hence, all the citizens come here.
Now, if we legalized drugs and regulated it, then the Cartels would be nothing more than the production part of the equation, and there would be no need to "fight" them.

[NWGuy]

Gab wrote:

<quoted text>
Yeah.
This administration is really tough on illegals.
At one time they were rightfully called illegal aliens,then illegal immigrants,then undocumented immigrants and now,in all of Napoitano's infinite wisdom,newly arrived asylum seekers.
Sounds like they're really puttin the hammer down.

One of the catches here is the reality of how asylum works.

Asylum seekers can not apply for asylum from their country and then immigrate legally. If they tried that, they would be apprehended in the country from which they are attempting to escape.

They have to get here any way they can, and then apply. And, at that point, they are quite obviously undocumented at the time of their application. And, when they do that, they don't necessarily even know what our rules are on asylum - they can just be trying to escape a horrible situation in their country.

They're fighting for their lives and the lives of their children. Though we send many of these back to their country of origin, I don't think it's out of order to show them some respect.

[Hold please]

dirtbag1958 wrote:

<quoted text>
What problems, doing nothing is a problem. So 80% of illegal immigrants are latino, even the spanish-americans want the illegal immigrants deported

So what are you saying? If someone happens to be Latino that they're automatically a criminal?

dirtbag1958 wrote:

<quoted text>and my idea of Confiscate will work, send them back to their country Broke will help discourage them from coming back.

Your idea of confiscate not only will not work, but it will cost way too much money and take away resources from real police work (just like fighting the "drug war"). The main problem with your idea is that it's a "give a man a fish" idea.
Plus, you're under the impression that being deported will discourage someone from coming back. Not only WILL they come back, but they'll come back with a vengance.

dirtbag1958 wrote:

<quoted text>Poor people yea that a good one.lol Are you such a racist that you think the illegal immigrant are all poor?

Are you so naive as to think that rich people in Mexico are risking it all to come here illegally? Why else would someone risk deportation to come here if not because the choice of staying in Mexico is worse? Besides, if you have money, we'll gladly make you a citizen.

dirtbag1958 wrote:

<quoted text>Lets be real, this is a good idea that helps pay for deporting and discourage others from coming here if they know they could lose everything.

No, it's really not. You think it's a good idea because you're not interested in fixing anything, but only in taking out your aggressions on a group you don't like. It's pretty much the worst form of racism.

dirtbag1958 wrote:

<quoted text>Only thing I hear from you is amnesty which over 70% of UNITED STATES CITIZENS don't want.

There was a time when a "majority" of the population didn't want things like the abolition of slavery and giving women the right to vote. Trust me, popular opinion is not the reason to make these kinds of decisions as most people are not informed enough to make a proper decision.

dirtbag1958 wrote:

<quoted text>I rather have ICE do their job and rights.

I would too. And their job is to deport people who are living and working here illegally and choose not to become citizens or be properly documented.

dirtbag1958 wrote:

<quoted text>I don't believe that the illegal immigrant should have any rights, they have invade the United States of America and as Citizen of this Great Nation we need to Deport the illegal immigrant "ALL OF THEM".

THEY'VE INVADED THE U.S.? Do you listen to yourself sometimes? You're going to need to get over this idea that people come here illegally to make your life miserable. They come here to make THEIR life better. You want to fix the illegal immigration problem here? Figure out how to make it seem better to be THERE.

[NWGuy]

dirtbag1958 wrote:

<quoted text>
What do you mean the Country is not rich? The Oil they have and one of the 3rd. riches man in the world is a mexican that live in mexico. Please know your FACTS. the biggest Problem in mexico is the drug cartel that send their members to United States to set-up business in drug distribution and the corruption in mexico. Mexico is a parasite that also take money from United States, claiming they need it to fight the drug cartel. they are just a bunch of crooks in mexico. It is all about the mighty dollar and greed.

The vast majority of Mexicans who come here are coming here to find work. Drugs are a problem, but that's not a significant part of the illegal immigration problem.

Mexico is not rich. Look at the stats like their GDP per capita, etc. Having a rich guy or having oil does not mean the country is in good financial shape. They don't have the federal budget to handle care for 10M people who are jobless and homeless.