Should illegal immigrants get tuition breaks?

[Hold please]

NWGuy wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, but the catch is that there isn't a way to do that. And, we do need a solution.
The best solution we have is capitalism. That, we know how to do.
As for deporting people, we still need to stop the influx at the border. Amnesty doesn't address that. And, that will be way more than a full time job that will involve tracking visas to deport those who overstay (which we do so poorly today), patrolling the border, etc.

I think it's more accurate to say that there isn't an INEXPENSIVE way to do that. I'm sure that really, if we put our minds to it, we could come up with something, but it would cost a pretty penny.

And you're right, Capitalism may have the answer, but it's starts with the Companies, not the immigrants.

[dirtbag1958]

Hold please wrote:

<quoted text>
I think it's more accurate to say that there isn't an INEXPENSIVE way to do that. I'm sure that really, if we put our minds to it, we could come up with something, but it would cost a pretty penny.
And you're right, Capitalism may have the answer, but it's starts with the Companies, not the immigrants.

Confiscate everything the illegal immigrant has and after a couple hundred raids the illegal immigrant will go back home to keep what they have.

[NWGuy]

Hold please wrote:

<quoted text>
I think it's more accurate to say that there isn't an INEXPENSIVE way to do that. I'm sure that really, if we put our minds to it, we could come up with something, but it would cost a pretty penny.
And you're right, Capitalism may have the answer, but it's starts with the Companies, not the immigrants.

Yes, any method of deporting 10M residents would be hugely expensive. But, I think the other problems with deportation that I've mentioned are more serious even than the expense. By that I mean the rights of US citizens, the likely humanitarian problems in Mexico, the political astuteness of what can very easily appear as a war on people closely related to a voting constituency of increasing importance, etc.

I suspect there are limits to how effective job policing can be. You have to consider that any policy we set on this is going to require congressional and presidential action. They are going to be reluctant to spend significant dollars on going after businesses. In the end it will remain possible to work "under the table" in America.

[Hold please]

dirtbag1958 wrote:

<quoted text>
Confiscate everything the illegal immigrant has and after a couple hundred raids the illegal immigrant will go back home to keep what they have.

This is the type of stuff that me and NWGuy laugh about.
Okay, Commander, I have some questions for you:
1. How do you find them to raid them to confiscate their stuff?
2. Under what law do we justify said raids? There's no law saying that someone here illegally cannot purchase merchandise.
3. What's to say they won't just move somewhere else? Or, just become a roaming band of Gypsies?

[NWGuy]

Walter S wrote:

Cool your jets. After Virginia and NJ, The Pelosi Administration knows they MUST give AMNESTY before the 2010 Congressional elections in order to stay in POWER.
Screw the American people. Amnesty will assure the Left total political dominance.
It will an awful end to any Dream of a bright future for American chidlren but will bring millions and millions of new voting Democrats to America thru "chain migration".
Pelosi WILL WIN her War against America and American families.

It's a bad idea to set this kind of policy based on partisan concerns like that.

However, I do think certain partisan concerns affect the issue - just not the ones you mention.

For example, one "solution" that doesn't involve amnesty for nearly as many people is that of setting a policy of strict policing of businesses, with serious penalties for those caught hiring illegals. But, how likely is it that Dems are going to want to stand up on election day and say "We really nailed those corporations and small businesses - you should vote for me!" How many moderate and undecided voters are going to see that as a positive? How many voters will believe the candidate is, in fact, business friendly and in favor of pro-jobs kinds of legislation?

Another problem is that 10M people is a lot of people. Any policy of going after these people is going to look like a war on "brown" at a time when the Latino vote is of increasing importance.

As to how Latinos may vote in the future, I think you are overstating your case. These immigrants tend to be anti-Choice, anti same sex marriage, and have other conservative ideals. Their vote isn't "in the bag" for Dems.

[Hold please]

NWGuy wrote:

<quoted text>
As to how Latinos may vote in the future, I think you are overstating your case. These immigrants tend to be anti-Choice, anti same sex marriage, and have other conservative ideals. Their vote isn't "in the bag" for Dems.

Yes, but imagine the voter turnout for the Dems if they're the ones who get the INS off the immigrants' collective backs.
I've seen and heard of more than one pro-life woman turn Pro-Choice when she was faced with an unwanted pregnancy. You have to admit that it's incredible how your loyalties can sway when promised a better life for you personally over adherence to some abstract concept.

[dirtbag1958]

Hold please and NWGuy have No idea how simple this will work. The United States do this to Drug Dealers. Why can't they do it for illegal immigrants? ICE does raids all over United States. One in Iowa 600 illegal immigrants, in mississippi over 700 were pick-up and recently 1200 Fired from an Cleaning Company in Minnesota . If you have NOT notice unemployment is over 10% in Illinois. and don't tell me you don't know where the illegal immigrants are in Chicago. Just south of University of Illinois Chicago to Archer, couple thousand in that area. SO let make ICE do their JOB and DEPORT all these poor illegal immigrants back to whatever country they came FROM. CONFISCATE ALL their WORLDLY POSSESSIONS and Sale their Possessions at Public Auction and use the Money to Help Deport more of these poor illegal immigrants Back to their Homeland Broke. That way it will discourage their Homeland People not to come to United States without PROPER PAPERS. This is a GOOD IDEA!

[dirtbag1958]

www.ice.gov or [phone] you will be surprised how easy it is to report the illegals, and keep anonymous! Do it for our children and grand children. Do it for your COUNTRY.

[I Noticed]

Have you noticed the local government all the way to the federal government imposing laws on there own citizens? Citizens have been struggling for a number of years and now is not the time to consider legalizing 11+ million immigrants from anywhere.

Currently, the United States is in debt! This debt is being paid by U.S. Citizens who are employed and homeowners! I wouldn't be surprised within the next 10 years, that Latinos will have more political power....Hola!

[NWGuy]

I Noticed wrote:

Have you noticed the local government all the way to the federal government imposing laws on there own citizens? Citizens have been struggling for a number of years and now is not the time to consider legalizing 11+ million immigrants from anywhere.
Currently, the United States is in debt! This debt is being paid by U.S. Citizens who are employed and homeowners! I wouldn't be surprised within the next 10 years, that Latinos will have more political power....Hola!

We make it illegal for them to work. We can't do that and then expect them to pay their own way. When they show up at the emergency room, WE pay, because it's illegal for them to work.

I agree it's hard times for employment right now. So, maybe we need to put it off for a year.

In fact, I doubt we would try to get 10M applicants green cards within a year - that would take a tremendous effort. With 50 work weeks per year and 40 hours per week you get 2,000 hours per year. To process amnesty for 10M people in 1 year you would have to take the applications, screen them and emit green cards to them at the rate of 5,000/hour for the full year. That doesn't sound likely to me. It would probably take months to set up an operation that could work at that rate, and there are advantages of it going slower - for example, it would be less of a shock to various parts of our economy.

Once they are legally employable, they will expand our market as they spend their money - making more jobs.

[NWGuy]

dirtbag1958 wrote:

Hold please and NWGuy have No idea how simple this will work. The United States do this to Drug Dealers. Why can't they do it for illegal immigrants? ICE does raids all over United States. One in Iowa 600 illegal immigrants, in mississippi over 700 were pick-up and recently 1200 Fired from an Cleaning Company in Minnesota . If you have NOT notice unemployment is over 10% in Illinois. and don't tell me you don't know where the illegal immigrants are in Chicago. Just south of University of Illinois Chicago to Archer, couple thousand in that area. SO let make ICE do their JOB and DEPORT all these poor illegal immigrants back to whatever country they came FROM. CONFISCATE ALL their WORLDLY POSSESSIONS and Sale their Possessions at Public Auction and use the Money to Help Deport more of these poor illegal immigrants Back to their Homeland Broke. That way it will discourage their Homeland People not to come to United States without PROPER PAPERS. This is a GOOD IDEA!

Compared to the number who are here, those deportations are in effect 0 progress. Figure out how many 500 person deportations you need. If you did a 500 person deportation per HOUR for every working hour of the day it would take 10 years. And, I don't think you can find them that fast through legal means.

Think about the scope of such an operation. It would appear as a war on Latinos - because, that's exactly what it would be. It would have homeless unemployed people pouring into Mexico at a rate they can't handle.

The political and legal ramifications of that are a fundamental reason no US congress is going to sign their names to such a plan.

And, besides the legal problems AND the political problems with your "take their stuff" idea, it's meaningless. Such an operation won't pay for itself - taking stuff from poor people just isn't very profitable, especially when you have to have a federal bureaucracy to do it. And deportation is already worse than losing their possessions.

[dirtbag1958]

Poor people? I guess those illegal immigrants I saw with the New Pick-up wasn't their truck? Latino's should have practice birth control. and Why do I care what happens to their country when we Deport them, their own country didn't care when they left. and Who said it has to be done overnight? It is an start, and most of illegal immigrants will self deport when this will become Law. The United States Government need laws to discourage the illegal immigrant from coming here.

[Hold please]

dirtbag1958 wrote:

Hold please and NWGuy have No idea how simple this will work.

Really? Let's take it piece by piece:

dirtbag1958 wrote:

The United States do this to Drug Dealers. Why can't they do it for illegal immigrants? ICE does raids all over United States.

Let's see how well this is actually working for the "war on drugs":
http://www.nationalreview.com/12feb96/drug.ht...
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/174383...
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/05/hea...
As we can see, the "war on drugs" is having no effect at all. How do you think that this "war on illegals" would do in comparison?

dirtbag1958 wrote:

One in Iowa 600 illegal immigrants, in mississippi over 700 were pick-up and recently 1200 Fired from an Cleaning Company in Minnesota .

600+700+1200=2500
Estimated number of illegals entering the nation in a month: 1,944
In FY2006, ICE increased in the number of deportations to 185,431
Number of illegals entering the nation in FY2006: 700,000
As you can see, this isn't going to work.

dirtbag1958 wrote:

If you have NOT notice unemployment is over 10% in Illinois. and don't tell me you don't know where the illegal immigrants are in Chicago. Just south of University of Illinois Chicago to Archer, couple thousand in that area.

Oh, is that where they are? You know this for a fact? Well then, what are you telling us for? Why aren't you calling ICE?
Or maybe it's because that a neighborhood that appears to be predominantly Hispanic doesn't necessarily mean that they're all illegal immigrants. Also, many people (right or wrong) are employing these people, and I bet you a week's pay they're not going to report them.

dirtbag1958 wrote:

SO let make ICE do their JOB and DEPORT all these poor illegal immigrants back to whatever country they came FROM.

Do you realize how long it takes to actually research each and every reported "case" of illegal immigration?

dirtbag1958 wrote:

CONFISCATE ALL their WORLDLY POSSESSIONS and Sale their Possessions at Public Auction and use the Money to Help Deport more of these poor illegal immigrants Back to their Homeland Broke.

I'm still not clear where there's a law against shopping as an illegal immigrant/visting resident. If it was paid for, it's theirs. And don't tell me it was paid for with "stolen" or "contraband" funds. Don't blame the immigrants if our labor laws are lax and companies are taking advantage of it.

dirtbag1958 wrote:

That way it will discourage their Homeland People not to come to United States without PROPER PAPERS. This is a GOOD IDEA!

Once again, it's risk v. reward. And even if we were to implement all of your "suggestions", the reward would still greatly outweigh the risk.

[Hold please]

I may not agree with 100% of what NWGuy has to say, but your level of cluelessness and ignorance is truly awe-inspiring.

dirtbag1958 wrote:

Poor people? I guess those illegal immigrants I saw with the New Pick-up wasn't their truck?

Maybe it wasn't. Maybe it was the truck of their employer. Maybe they won it at the Church lottery or some other place. Maybe the truck is new but the person who owns it is living in a box.
Or maybe it was a truck that they all have a hand in paying for. Many illegals will co-opt homes, vehicles and other consumer goods so they can maximize the return on the low incomes that they do earn. Italians used to do the same thing in the beginning of the 20th Century. So don't think that just because someone's vehicle is brand-new-looking that they're rolling in dough.

dirtbag1958 wrote:

Latino's should have practice birth control.

Why Latinos over anyone else? Seems to me that the people who are having the most kids at one time are not of Latin descent (Jon and Kate ring any bells?) I agree that everyone in America needs to take a good hard look at our attitudes toward child bearing vs. child rearing, but you cannot target one group just because you don't happen to like them. That's called bigotry, class.

dirtbag1958 wrote:

and Why do I care what happens to their country when we Deport them, their own country didn't care when they left.

While I agree it's not completely for us to "fix" a foreign land, make no mistake that what happens abroad affects what happens here. Hence the problems with illegal immigration.
Think of it this way - if Mexico were as profitable as the U.S.(hell, even Canada) then they wouldn't have a need to come here, n'est ce pas?

dirtbag1958 wrote:

and Who said it has to be done overnight? It is an start, and most of illegal immigrants will self deport when this will become Law.

Keep telling yourself that. I heard an interview with an illegal immigrant where he said, "You know what? Prison in the U.S. is still better than living in my hometown in Mexico."

dirtbag1958 wrote:

The United States Government need laws to discourage the illegal immigrant from coming here.

I'm sorry, don't we already have Illegal Immigration laws?

[dirtbag1958]

Who said illegal immigrants have rights? Chicago Sun Times just had the 15 Most Wanted in Chicago, 11 were hispanic and 8 of them were are illegal immigrants. Mayor Daley has made Chicago an Sanctuary City, and I thought you knew that.? and why don't you report the illegal immigrant? Don't you love this Country? or are you using illegal immigrants to work for you or because illegal immigrants are here that is why you have a job? Most people who defend illegal immigrants have use them as workers, for their church, and need to have a job. Because the illegal immigrant is here illegally that is why the illegal immigrant possessions should be Confiscated. If illegal immigrants are deported and they tell their countryman that they had all this money and possessions until they got busted and deported with nothing it will make a difference. Many might not come here illegally, instead the immigrant will wait their turn and come here legally. and Since you are from Illinois do you know how much illegal immigrants has cost the State?Costs of Illegal Immigration to Illinoisans
Executive Summary
Analysis based on current estimates of the illegal alien population residing in Illinois indicates that population costs the state’s taxpayers more than $3.5 billion per year for education, medical care and incarceration. That annual tax burden amounts to about $695 per Illinois household headed by a native-born resident. Even if the estimated $465 million in sales, income and property taxes collected from illegal immigrants are subtracted from the fiscal outlays, net costs still amount to more than $3 billion per year.
The three cost areas discussed in this analysis (education, health care and incarceration resulting from illegal immigration) are the major cost areas. They are the same three program areas analyzed in a 1994 study conducted by the Urban Institute, which provides a useful baseline for comparison. Other studies have been conducted in the interim, showing trends that support the conclusions of this report.
Even without accounting for all of the numerous other areas in which costs associated with illegal immigration are being incurred by Illinois taxpayers, the program areas analyzed in this study indicate that the burden is substantial and that the costs are rapidly increasing.
The more than $3.5 billion in costs incurred by Illinois taxpayers annually result from outlays in the following areas:
Education. Based on estimates of the illegal immigrant population in Illinois and documented costs of K-12 schooling, Illinoisans spend more than $3.1 billion annually on education for the children of illegal immigrants. This estimate does not include programs for limited English students, remedial educational programs or breakfast and lunch programs available to students from low-income families. An estimated 10 percent of the K-12 public school students in Illinois are children of illegal aliens.
Health care. Taxpayer-funded, unreimbursed medical outlays for health care provided to the state’s illegal alien population amount to an estimated $340 million a year.
Incarceration. The uncompensated cost of incarcerating deportable illegal aliens in Illinois state and local prisons amounts to about $55 million a year. This estimate includes only prison costs and not short-term or other detention costs, related law enforcement and judicial expenditures, or the monetary costs of the crimes that led to incarceration.
The fiscal costs of illegal immigration borne by state taxpayers do not end with these three major cost areas. The total local cost of illegal immigration is considerably higher if other cost areas such as preventive health programs, special English instruction, interpretation services in courts and hospitals, welfare programs used by the U.S.-born children of illegal aliens, or welfare benefits for

[dirtbag1958]

American workers displaced by illegal alien workers are also calculated.
If illegal immigrants were able to obtain legal work status as currently advocated by the Bush administration, and/or eventual permanent residence and possible citizenship as currently proposed in both houses of Congress, state income tax collections might increase, but this likely would be outweighed by increased use of public services to low-income families. In addition, the possibility for family members of the current illegal alien population to come to the United States to reunite families would increase the size of the poverty and near-poverty population using public services. So it will pay for itself to deport ALL illegal immigrants! and like you said "the reward would still greatly outweigh the risk."

[SharkBite]

dirtbag1958 wrote:

Poor people? I guess those illegal immigrants I saw with the New Pick-up wasn't their truck? Latino's should have practice birth control. and Why do I care what happens to their country when we Deport them, their own country didn't care when they left. and Who said it has to be done overnight? It is an start, and most of illegal immigrants will self deport when this will become Law. The United States Government need laws to discourage the illegal immigrant from coming here.

I AGREE totally! I am sick of seeing all VA, these people in brand new SUVs, packed with their 5-6 kids, all of whom speak no English. Americans with one child struggle to care for themselves and their families and there parasites are sucking America dry.

[SharkBite]

** should have said "all over VA"

[dirtbag1958]

Just because I make sense and you know if this became an law and it will work to get rid of illegal immigrants. and Calling me an bigot usually means that you are a racist, and the birth control commit is look how fast the use of Food Stamps has gone up, I should blame the Catholic church for that one since they are helping the illegal immigrants to help fill-up the their Churches. I am an Taxpayer and I am tired of my tax money going to illegal immigrants. You have NO idea what is going on, do you. Chicago admitted the other day that there is a black and brown war going on. The Federal Government need to ENFORCE the LAWS and make NEW LAWS to Discourage illegal immigration.

[dirtbag1958]

SharkBite wrote:

<quoted text>I AGREE totally! I am sick of seeing all VA, these people in brand new SUVs, packed with their 5-6 kids, all of whom speak no English. Americans with one child struggle to care for themselves and their families and there parasites are sucking America dry.

Thank You! The illegal immigrant is a PARASITE that is sucking this GREAT NATION DRY. Did you know one of the riches man in the World is a mexican living in mexico and mexico has money thru their oil, But the mexican Government is also a parasite taking money from United States. People better open their eyes and realize a lot of our problems: High Unemployment, High Crime and High use of Social Services (welfare) is caused by illegal immigrants.