Witnesses for Jones trial will cost R...

Witnesses for Jones trial will cost Ramsey County public defend...

There are 30 comments on the TwinCities.com story from Mar 18, 2010, titled Witnesses for Jones trial will cost Ramsey County public defend.... In it, TwinCities.com reports that:

Payments to expert witnesses hired for the defense of a man accused of killing a baby girl have used up more than half the Ramsey County public defender's office's budget for such witnesses.

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DJT

Sunnyside, WA

#1 Mar 19, 2010
Injury biomechanics has provided compelling evidence for decades that it isn't possible to cause the SBS diagnostic triad of symptoms by manual shaking, particularly in the manner claimed by SBS "experts". There would be catastrophic structural damage to the neck and spine first, with that kind of violent shaking. On the other hand vaccinations are notoriously capable of causing encephalitic brain swelling, which in turn causes hemorrhaging, or accelerated vitamin C deficiency--a hemorrhagic disease, increased blood histamine levels, endotoxemia...doctors see symptoms long associated with SBS and violate medical guidelines requiring them to do DIFFERENTIAL DIAGNOSIS, to eliminate medical causes before making an assumption of abuse based on clinical signs which don't differentiate between accidental, non-accidental injuries or disease manifestations that mimic injuries. Those tests can separate the innocent from the guilty, but doctors may have an agenda for not digging too deeply. I don't know what the truth is in this situation. Violent shaking can cause brainstem injury, but there would be other structural injuries too--the pathologist didn't explain enough to say. Canada's Gouge Inquiry has plenty to say about that kind of report.
jerry person

Holmen, WI

#2 Mar 19, 2010
This maybe costing most of the county defense money , but it does not touch the amount in the Da`s open checkbook he uses to get convictions to help advance himself and his agency. remember he is on trail in a CRIMINAL COURT not a court with liberty and justice for all. Today America litterally has criminal courts just meet the child predator in the black drees. the pure evil harming America for personal gain. What ocupation rapes and moleste more children than all others combined. The judiciary. The definition of pervert is to lie and mislead. Judges are all pervert.
mmj

Saint Paul, MN

#5 Mar 19, 2010
Wow jerry person. You have a huge chip on your shoulder for some reason, and are way off base on this. Why don't your comments ever have anything to do with the article at hand? Instead you twist everything around to make it be all about you and your chip.

Since: Mar 09

Saint Paul, MN

#6 Mar 19, 2010
I would prefer they use up the fund if it allows a real fair trial for someone, we all know that we tried and convited this individual before he even got to court. I say to be fair, bring in the expert and go from there.....sheesh...if the guy had money this would not even be in the paper.
Jennifer R

Saint Paul, MN

#7 Mar 19, 2010
Everyone deserves to be defended equally in court, regardless of your financial status. I think this article is trying to stir up the wrong kind of trouble. An overlooked point is that the public defender's budget for expert witnesses is so small that it is possible for a single case to use half of the budget for the year.
Duh

Denver, CO

#8 Mar 19, 2010
Yes everyone has a right to be defended equally in court, but at their own expense. We as a community should not be responsible for paying for "expert witnesses". One is guaranteed only legal representation, if you want to pay someone to testify for you, then you foot the bill. What really is overlooked is how "expert witnesses" has become a cottage industry.

Since: Mar 09

Saint Paul, MN

#9 Mar 19, 2010
Duh wrote:
Yes everyone has a right to be defended equally in court, but at their own expense. We as a community should not be responsible for paying for "expert witnesses". One is guaranteed only legal representation, if you want to pay someone to testify for you, then you foot the bill. What really is overlooked is how "expert witnesses" has become a cottage industry.
So if you are poor and innocent, you must go to prison because you can't afford the testimony that may prove your innocence? I hope you don't find yourself in a situation such as this anytime soon.
Ohh

Saint Paul, MN

#10 Mar 19, 2010
Duh wrote:
Yes everyone has a right to be defended equally in court, but at their own expense. We as a community should not be responsible for paying for "expert witnesses". One is guaranteed only legal representation, if you want to pay someone to testify for you, then you foot the bill. What really is overlooked is how "expert witnesses" has become a cottage industry.
This comment is proof that some of those commenting on this board should get an approval from their mommy first. By this comment, should assume that the "innocent until proven guilty" person can be cut open and bleed out 10's of thousands of dollars for their defense or have no defense.
DJT

Sunnyside, WA

#11 Mar 19, 2010
There are two kinds of justice. One for the rich and one for the poor. The only way to equalize the playing field at all is to pay for some semblance of equal representation. To be represented means to be able to get witnesses as part of the defense, not just an attorney doing battle with the other sides "expert witnesses." The world has been sold a bill of goods on the unproven "Shaken Baby Syndrome" hypothesis, to the point where this fraud is so deeply embedded in the collective conscienceless that it would take an industrial bulldozer to unseat it. Happily, the bottom line (money) in this case has helped it generate some publicity. Read and learn: http://legaljustice4john.com http://theamandatruthproject.com http://medicalmisdiagnosisresearch.wordpress....
Duh

Denver, CO

#12 Mar 19, 2010
Not a single one of you can show me where in the constitution it states that we the people must pay for the burden of his expert witnesses. I also do not see you lining up to donate money for his defense rather crying at how the budget is so small for expert witnesses. Where is the outrage with the fact that it cost thousand of dollars to hire someone to testify, if the expert believed in their cause then they should be testifying for free its called a sacrifice for you beliefs. Also you forget that expert witnesses often times are negated by the other sides expert witnesses so in the end a jury is going to be looking at other evidence anyway. There are plenty of other methods the lawyer could use to negate the prosecutions expert witness and I bet you it would cost about the price of a library card.
DJT

Sunnyside, WA

#13 Mar 19, 2010
It doesn't work that way--countering an "expert" witness for the prosecution with a library article. Get real. The real fault is doctors, social services and the criminal justice system perpetrating a fraud and violating their own medical protocol by not eliminating other causes in the first place, because other causes involve medical malpractice and the horrendous consequences of the truth coming out and upsetting 4 decades of false accusations and wrongful convictions on the basis of symptoms which have other causes. They are fighting it tooth and nail. Why don't you put yourself out a little and do some research on the subject instead of ranting and raving from a brainwashed mindset. There are much bigger issues here, involving thousands of people and the infants put at risk of misdiagnosis and wrong treatment, not to even mention prevention by owning up to the real causes, which is usually vaccination injury--but that's a billion $ cash cow they don't want to run dry. Better to kill babies than upset that apple cart. If you aren't part of the solution, you become part of the problem, and remaining ignorant instead of educating yourself plays right into their hands. I hope this case breaks their bank. It might save the life of an innocent child down the road, and the devastated family of caretakers who did nothing but trust their doctors and follow medical guidelines, only to have catastrophe strike. I don't know if this guy is innocent or guilty, but if he had something to hide, it's unlikely he'd go to trial when they always try to push these caretakers into plea bargains rather than risk much longer sentences at trial.
Friday

Minneapolis, MN

#14 Mar 19, 2010
Wow - I get the feeling that DJT is Sunnyside, WA's answer to our own Sharon4Anderson.

I do think that everybody should have access to a proper defense - after all, the victim (or victim's family) doesn't have to pay for the prosecution, and we do still believe that a person if innocent until proven guilty. That said, I think we should take a careful look at the cottage industry that has developed around "expert witnesses", because there is a lot of money changing hands in getting "experts" to support just about any theory under the sun. Who determines what is appropriate to pay these people? The legal process should be about determining facts, not expensive spin.
Linda

Saint Paul, MN

#15 Mar 19, 2010
I think we got to defend the guy. Didn't these prosecutors send an innocent guy to prison for the bad Toyota? We don't need more of these cases!
Get a clue

Cottage Grove, MN

#16 Mar 19, 2010
Sounds like another fabricated defense. Defense lawyers do this all the time. They pay big dollars to people who make a living travelling around the country testifying on behalf of guilty defendants. The guy did not know what happened to the baby? Total BS. How many people have babies that have suddenly become injured but they have no clue why? If he wants to fly in a defense expert, let him pay for it. It is bad enough we have to pay for his lawyer.
DJT

Sunnyside, WA

#17 Mar 20, 2010
Nothing like, "guilty until proven innocent". Get-a-clue, the point is, "injuries" may not be injuries at all but a misdiagnosed medical condition. And because this is and has happened to people world-wide, where medical symptoms have been misdiagnosed as "inflicted injuries", the case could impact on so many others. There are medical tests doctors are required to do to separate the innocent from the guilty, but they refuse to do them, and possibly for an agenda that is almost too incomprehensible to believe. If this were any other kind of medical diagnosis, doctors who refused to follow conventional medical protocol in this way would face censure, possible loss of their license and maybe even prison. But this is a blind spot in medicine and law that needs illumination. I'm not just voicing a blind opinion. I'm a teacher, researcher and published journalist who has spent the last three years researching the subject to the exclusion of all else. All I ask is that people fight the kind of brainwashing that has been established in this diagnosis and open themselves to the truth. There is no proof yet in this case that the symptoms are "injuries". Prosecutors and doctors saying it is so doesn't make it so. I know personally that doctors can be ignorant of many things, can lie, falsify information and evidence and the same with law enforcement and prosecutors, all for the "greater good" of appointing themselves judge and jury to get what they want, right or wrong. This is a much bigger case than you can imagine, for the simple reason that it mirrors similar cases world-wide, and important because a fuss is being made over money that has given it extra coverage. Put yourself in the defendant's place. Would you want to accept an ineffective defense because you couldn't afford a proper one? There is probably some truth to accusations that "expert witnesses" benefit from controversy in all kinds of cases. But I happen to know what bucking the medical establishment in this particular kind of case costs these particular experts. Most of them have to wait until they are retired from regular practice to go public with their research and studies, because mainstream medicine with unlimited Big Pharma backing seeks to crucify them for speaking out. It takes a lot of courage and independant means to speak the truth when the consequences of doing so can be professionally and financially devastating. Take the example of Dr. Andrew Wakefield, who published his studies linking vaccinations (not just the mercury in vaccinations) to autism. He had to leave his own country, faced charges, and most of the world of medicine and Big Pharma wants him dead. Now he has re-created autism-like effects in baby monkeys by putting them on a human infant vaccine schedule, and I suspect when that gets published his life won't be worth a plug nickel. We all deserve the truth, no matter how painful and no matter what the cost. It's only money. Is that more important than human lives?
DJT

Sunnyside, WA

#18 Mar 20, 2010
For some reason this system blanked out the word "monkeys". It was primate studies using baby monkeys to test the effect of multiple vaccinations --the kind of adverse effect testing Big Pharma has never done and refuses to do. They do very select, limited testing on special very healthy groups of infants for a short time on individual vaccines but won't test the cumulative effect of many vaccines given together or without a relatively short time of each other as happens in a normal infant vaccine schedule. And the testing they do is suspect --there are many journal articles analyzing and criticizing methods of review in studies, like how they have Big Pharma funding the studies, ghost writing the results, and finding ways to eliminate subjects with adverse reactions, with no long-term studies done at all.
DJT

Sunnyside, WA

#19 Mar 20, 2010
OK, whatever you do, don't write the work m-o-n-k-e-y on this website.
Get a Clue

Cottage Grove, MN

#20 Mar 20, 2010
You state there is no evidence? I think you missed the part of the article where the medical examiner says there were no signs of illness or anything else that caused this child's injuries. This baby did not get brain bleeding, retinal bleeding or damage to the neck muscles on its own. There is NO evidence that the doctor "refused" to do required tests or that protocol was not followed. If so, the defense lawyer can certainly cross-examine the medical examiner and bring out all the alleged errors. It is bad enough the taxpayers have to pay to house him, defend him, feed him, etc. But paying for experts to speculate that some unknown, undiagnosed, nonexistent hidden something caused this otherwise healthy baby to have brain bleeding, retinal bleeding or damage to the neck muscles? Add that to the hardly credible, "I have no idea what happened to this child while in my care..." explanation. Come on. The jury will hear it all, can judge the credibility of all parties and reach a verdict.
Get a Clue

Cottage Grove, MN

#21 Mar 20, 2010
DJT wrote:
It doesn't work that way--countering an "expert" witness for the prosecution with a library article. Get real. The real fault is doctors, social services and the criminal justice system perpetrating a fraud and violating their own medical protocol by not eliminating other causes in the first place, because other causes involve medical malpractice and the horrendous consequences of the truth coming out and upsetting 4 decades of false accusations and wrongful convictions on the basis of symptoms which have other causes. They are fighting it tooth and nail. Why don't you put yourself out a little and do some research on the subject instead of ranting and raving from a brainwashed mindset. There are much bigger issues here, involving thousands of people and the infants put at risk of misdiagnosis and wrong treatment, not to even mention prevention by owning up to the real causes, which is usually vaccination injury--but that's a billion $ cash cow they don't want to run dry. Better to kill babies than upset that apple cart. If you aren't part of the solution, you become part of the problem, and remaining ignorant instead of educating yourself plays right into their hands. I hope this case breaks their bank. It might save the life of an innocent child down the road, and the devastated family of caretakers who did nothing but trust their doctors and follow medical guidelines, only to have catastrophe strike. I don't know if this guy is innocent or guilty, but if he had something to hide, it's unlikely he'd go to trial when they always try to push these caretakers into plea bargains rather than risk much longer sentences at trial.
Blah blah blah....lots of rhetoric with no concrete examples....The decades of wrongful convictions.....trust their doctors and catastrophe strikes...the real cause being vaccination injury....

I think you should cite one example where there has been PROOF that a vaccination caused a baby to wake up with retinal bleeding and neck injuries.
DJT

Sunnyside, WA

#22 Mar 20, 2010
I belong to an international group involving these cases. All you have to do is Google vaccine + encephalitis... "Results 1 - 10 of about 3,770,000 for vaccine + encephalitis.(0.52 seconds)" The distinctive cry characteristic of encephalitis, recognized world wide is "inconsolable high-pitched cry". Exactly what the National SBS organization claims (no case of violent shaking has even been documented that caused the symptoms used to diagnose SBS)is the usual cause of pushing a caretaker over the edge and "losing it". Shaking is assumed. The thing is, the brain swelling comes first, and the crying after. Brain swelling causes hemorrhaging, usually in the form of subdural hematoma (SDH), and retinal hemorrhages go hand-in-hand with SDH. Vaccines also cause blood histamine levels to rise, which cause similar symptoms while at the same time depleting Vitamin C stores (needed to neutralize blood histamine) causing an accelerated form of "Barlow's disease variant" --a form of quickly developing infantile scurvy. Scurvy is a hemorrhagic disease with systemic affects, which causes bone disease also. Subdural Hemorrhage is listed as one of the many symptoms on current online medical sources, but bleeding can occur anywhere in the body. One symptom is "sudden death".
To date, we don't know one single case where Viamin C or blood histamine levels have ever been tested...yet. When the triad of symptoms assumed to be caused by shaking is seen, medical investigation quits, in spite of emergency pediatric guidelines providing a specific list of causes to eliminate when symptoms like these are found. You can find this online: Clinical Manual of Emergency Pediatrics. In the paperback copy I have in front of me, it's Chapter 18, starting on page 523. By the way, these symptoms are also found at birth in a surprisingly high number of cases, and have even been documented in the womb.
Here's the way it works: when the diagnostic triad assumed to be caused by shaking is found, abuse is assumed and the last caretaker with the infant when it becomes unresponsive, often after vomiting and going into convulsions, or often just stops breathing, that person is accused and the accusation translates directly into a conviction. They are threatened with something like 40 years to life in prison if they dare insist on going to trial, so most take plea bargains knowing there is no chance to defend themselves against the symptoms--even if they have no idea what caused them.
Of course they claim there were no "signs" of illness. The signs were probably there, but not those associated with acute illness. No runny nose, no fever, no obvious infection although they seldom do blood tests checking for them.
Look up the work of Dr. Kalokerinos, Dr. C.A.B. Clemetson, the world-renowned expert on Vitamin C deficiency, Dr. Buttram, Dr. Innis, internationally-known injury biomechanical engineer, Dr. Van Ee, and a very long list of other experts in their field from around the world. Here's one for starters: http://smithforensic.blogspot.com/2009/02/doc... Instead of parroting slick advertising jargon (that's what it is, funded by Big Pharma), do your homework. I did mine. I'm going to follow with a partial list of adverse reactons documented from a single vaccine in 5 day studies.

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