Co-op seeks permit for 80-foot-high wind turbine in heart of No...

Full story: TwinCities.com

The latest thing to dot North St. Paul's bare skyline might be an 80-foot pole with three 35-foot blades.

Comments

Showing posts 1 - 20 of24
< prev page
|
Go to last page| Jump to page:
unclefogey

AOL

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#1
Apr 26, 2009
 

Judged:

1

1

1

I find the headline to this article just short of hilarious. It was Prime Minister Wally who made the presentation for the windmill to Supreme Ruler Mike and his minions at the council meeting a month ago. If this is what is supposed to represent the request for a permit, you could not have assembled what will be nothing other than a kangaroo court in favor of this usual North St. Paul pouring money into a black hole.
The Big Bopper

Saint Paul, MN

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#2
Apr 27, 2009
 

Judged:

2

1

1

Maybe you could consolidate the community landmarks and have the big windmill stategically placed in the lower backside of the big snowman?
Sunflower

Minneapolis, MN

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#3
Apr 27, 2009
 

Judged:

1

1

1

What's up with North St Paul and Jokedale. They seem to care nothing for what their residents want.

“Sustainability Now!”

Since: May 08

Vadnais Heights

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#4
Apr 27, 2009
 

Judged:

2

2

2

Windmills and other alternative forms of power generation ARE the future. Just as some protested those "newfangled" Interstate highways, some will be unhappy about anything new on their horizon.

Of course, for those who enjoy tilting at windmills ....
Hello

United States

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#5
Apr 27, 2009
 
Madaman wrote:
Windmills and other alternative forms of power generation ARE the future. Just as some protested those "newfangled" Interstate highways, some will be unhappy about anything new on their horizon.
Of course, for those who enjoy tilting at windmills ....
but cost to much and waste taxpayers money on the road to higher ELECTRIC bills.
Pragmatist

Lakeville, MN

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#6
Apr 27, 2009
 
Madaman wrote:
Windmills and other alternative forms of power generation ARE the future. Just as some protested those "newfangled" Interstate highways, some will be unhappy about anything new on their horizon.
Of course, for those who enjoy tilting at windmills ....
As for those newfangled interstate things, the St Paulites have still hamstrung 35E to this day at a cost of millions over time. I don't think they should have had a say either.

“Sustainability Now!”

Since: May 08

Vadnais Heights

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#7
Apr 27, 2009
 

Judged:

1

Pragmatist wrote:
<quoted text>As for those newfangled interstate things, the St Paulites have still hamstrung 35E to this day at a cost of millions over time. I don't think they should have had a say either.
Please don't get me started on the utter Idiocy of the 45 MPH "parkway!" It is simply a Revenue Zone!

“Sustainability Now!”

Since: May 08

Vadnais Heights

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#8
Apr 27, 2009
 

Judged:

1

Hello wrote:
<quoted text>but cost to much and waste taxpayers money on the road to higher ELECTRIC bills.
So all those co-ops are tapping wind power for generation to RAISE THEIR COSTS? Don't forget, co-ops are not ordinary businesses. They are owned by their customers -- none of whom are eager for higher bills.
Pragmatist

Lakeville, MN

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#9
Apr 27, 2009
 

Judged:

1

Madaman wrote:
<quoted text>
Please don't get me started on the utter Idiocy of the 45 MPH "parkway!" It is simply a Revenue Zone!
See, conservatives and liberals can agree..........

“Sustainability Now!”

Since: May 08

Vadnais Heights

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#10
Apr 27, 2009
 
Pragmatist wrote:
<quoted text>See, conservatives and liberals can agree..........
I've said that many times!

BTW, please check my reply to your response in the Party thread.
Hello

United States

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#11
Apr 27, 2009
 
Madaman wrote:
<quoted text>
So all those co-ops are tapping wind power for generation to RAISE THEIR COSTS? Don't forget, co-ops are not ordinary businesses. They are owned by their customers -- none of whom are eager for higher bills.
no to sell it back to xcel as ordered by state law at higher rates.
unclefogey

AOL

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#12
Apr 28, 2009
 
Wind power is a good thing when the wind generator is located in an area where the average year around wind speed is sufficient to actually operate the generator to produce enough electricity to provide a positive cash flow.
In the case of the North St Paul throwing money down a black hole, the generator, according the MN Commerce Dept. website, will be located in an area with the second lowest average yearly wind speed in the state. The only lower wind speed would be equal to that produced by Madman in his diatribe about wind genration without having the facts.
The MMPA, of which North St Paul is one of eleven members, is not a CO-OP. It is a way for the members to obtain additional funds to fund bloated city governments through approximately 10% higher electric rates than XCEL. There is no required input from the citizens in runnining the utility as is required of CO-OPs.
More bars in more places

Wentzville, MO

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#13
Apr 28, 2009
 
Why does the writer accept the statement that the costs won't be borne by taxpayers/electric customers because they are selling federal bonds? Seems to me that the bond servicing will cost the $300K PLUS interest! Sloppy reporting again. Why is it left up to the commenters here to reveal the facts regarding the efficiency of installing a generator in that location? IF wind energy is determined to be required then it should be installed where it is most efficient based on wind, access to the power grid, and other considerations.

“Sustainability Now!”

Since: May 08

Vadnais Heights

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#14
Apr 29, 2009
 

Judged:

1

unclefogey wrote:
The only lower wind speed would be equal to that produced by Madman in his diatribe about wind genration without having the facts.
I am flattered -- I didn't know that 38 words could constitute a diatribe -- that is usually reserved for a prolonged discourse.

Glad to hear my words have such power!

“Live Life with GUSTO!!!”

Since: Jun 08

St. Paul, MN

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#15
Apr 29, 2009
 
Madaman wrote:
<quoted text>
I am flattered -- I didn't know that 38 words could constitute a diatribe -- that is usually reserved for a prolonged discourse.
Glad to hear my words have such power!
Madaman:
I usually agree with you on energy issues and I am not against alternative energy sources like wind power, but holy Toledo, Madaman, putting an 85 foot wind turbine tower with 3-35 foot turbine [2-3ton]blades with in the N.St. Paul city limits is not only insane but a catastrophe waiting to happen.

Hasn't anybody read recent research regarding the environmental effects on such large towers on humans and inhabited structures in close quarters? The [US] DOE, EPA, and NASA, as well as, many major universities like Ohio State, U of VT, UNC. UW-Madison, U of MT, and, UC-Berkeley, have just published some astounding stats on wind turbines in close quarters.

Using the proposed wind turbine for N.St.Paul as an example; a large wind turbine[80-85 feet tall] can generate ambient noise of 90dB+ at speed. The wind turbine, this size, can cause health related issues regarding sound attenuation and noise pollution when constructed 1500-2000 feet near inhabited buildings.

Also, in case of engineering failures, turbine blades weighing up to 3+ tons can cause and wreak havoc to people and structures inside the circle of safety. Long term exposure to spurious sonic attenuation can cause hearing and health issues that can cause irreparable physical body damage.

In a recent Fleet-Farm publication for rural residents and farmers, it quoted UW-Madison environmental research data and studies supporting the human environmental effects and hazards of large wind turbines at close quarters. Bigger isn't always better.

It's not the energy or power generation in question, though residual turbine EMPs were questioned, but the noise, health and aesthetic issues were brought to the study's forefront and focus.

Check into this and see what has cropped up. Wind energy is great within reasonable parameters and placements.
gtV

p.s.; Mad, in the late 1960's through the early 1980's, NASA operated, near Sandusky, Ohio, the world's largest wind turbine ever constructed. The benefits of wind energy were studied et cetera but some surprising revelations surfaced. What I just posted was revealed but the starting fact was that the turbine could be heard on a good day as much as 2-1/2 to 3 miles away! No amount of blade pitch adjustments could muffle the sonic attenuations. I know this to be a fact for I am from Ohio and visited relatives in the area and the 70-75 bladed turbine. gtV

“Sustainability Now!”

Since: May 08

Vadnais Heights

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#16
Apr 30, 2009
 

Judged:

1

1

1

gtVoyageur wrote:
<quoted text>
...
p.s.; Mad, in the late 1960's through the early 1980's, NASA operated, near Sandusky, Ohio, the world's largest wind turbine ever constructed. The benefits of wind energy were studied et cetera but some surprising revelations surfaced. What I just posted was revealed but the starting fact was that the turbine could be heard on a good day as much as 2-1/2 to 3 miles away! No amount of blade pitch adjustments could muffle the sonic attenuations. I know this to be a fact for I am from Ohio and visited relatives in the area and the 70-75 bladed turbine. gtV
What? I can't hear you -- did you say something?(:

Seriously, this is an aspect of the turbines I haven't heard of before (no pun intended). I have been near smaller turbines, and only heard a gentle whooshing sound. 90 dba? Wow, that is like a medium-quality rock concert. This is a very pertinent quality-of-life issue!

“Live Life with GUSTO!!!”

Since: Jun 08

St. Paul, MN

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#17
Apr 30, 2009
 
Madaman wrote:
<quoted text>
What? I can't hear you -- did you say something?(:
Seriously, this is an aspect of the turbines I haven't heard of before (no pun intended). I have been near smaller turbines, and only heard a gentle whooshing sound. 90 dba? Wow, that is like a medium-quality rock concert. This is a very pertinent quality-of-life issue!
Madaman:
Sorry, to have gone to the proverbial mountain top and yelled, "wolf!", about this issue but the more we want alternative energy etc. we must be knowledgeable of its unwaring side effects.

My NASA references were made at the beginning onset of wind turbine research. Today, NASA has in the works or near completion the world's largest research wind tunnel with having a full size large wind turbine in it. I can't wait to see what data comes forth from this project.

Wind turbine ['farms'] facilities should be out in the open and somewhat isolated from the public. There is still much to be learned about wind turbine side effects. One has to proceed with diligence and wisdom to make sure it is practical and safe.

Mad, as a footnote, from a concentration of wind turbine generators how much spurious EMP's [electromagnetic pulses] are emitted from said structures. Just like high voltage electric transmission lines have spurious EMP's emitted so too does wind power mills.

What's the issue, here? EMP's effect electronic devices and may interfere with computer and/or related devices.[Much like fluorescent and incandescent light bulbs lighting up near high voltage power lines.] The same holds true for communication and medical devices near power lines or towers. Folks with ICD/pacemaker devices should take note.

I think N.St.Paul should look at alternative means of alternative than a wind turbine in the city's downtown area. The visual pollution doesn't go well with "Frosty" the Snowman structure!
gtV
unclefogey

AOL

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#18
Apr 30, 2009
 

Judged:

1

1

1

I am sorry, but you guys crying wolf about the noise of a wind turbine don't have a clue. Councilman Zick at the council meeting which no one in the city of NSP ever attends because they are just a bunch of sheep, stated that he had visited the city of Rochester where he said one of these turbines is located and unequivocally said that all he could hear when the turbine was operating was an almost imperceptable swoosh, swoosh as the blades went by.

Now who should the citizens of North St. Paul believe on this subject; some wild eyed bloggers who have nothing better to do, NASA and university scientists or a North St. Paul councilman??

What I can not understand is the statement by Prime Minister Wally that the residents of the condos, apartments and homes next to the turbine site have no problem with putting this eyesore in their backyards. Can you imagine what this will do to their property values? Maybe they are all insomniacs and believe the light swoosh, swoosh will sing them to sleep.

All of this noise concern is really a red herring because, THERE IS NO WIND!!!!

“Live Life with GUSTO!!!”

Since: Jun 08

St. Paul, MN

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#19
Apr 30, 2009
 
unclefogey wrote:
I am sorry, but you guys crying wolf about the noise of a wind turbine don't have a clue. Councilman Zick at the council meeting which no one in the city of NSP ever attends because they are just a bunch of sheep, stated that he had visited the city of Rochester where he said one of these turbines is located and unequivocally said that all he could hear when the turbine was operating was an almost imperceptable swoosh, swoosh as the blades went by.
Now who should the citizens of North St. Paul believe on this subject; some wild eyed bloggers who have nothing better to do, NASA and university scientists or a North St. Paul councilman??
What I can not understand is the statement by Prime Minister Wally that the residents of the condos, apartments and homes next to the turbine site have no problem with putting this eyesore in their backyards. Can you imagine what this will do to their property values? Maybe they are all insomniacs and believe the light swoosh, swoosh will sing them to sleep.
All of this noise concern is really a red herring because, THERE IS NO WIND!!!!
unclefogey;
You bring some valid points to this discussion. But, beyond the political wrangling and valid property value issues, you just can't erect any sized windmill without looking at or realizing the environmental parameters and safety issues involved.

The North St. Paul city limits is not a viable location for a large wind turbine period. Besides your cogent arguments, I have followed wind mill technologies for 30+ years. I am not against wind turbines but people have to be sensible as to where to locate the turbine and to future repercussions of such.

You don't build a new house near a major airport fence, and/or near or within the landing flight corridors that will expand in the future. The same holds true for wind turbines and their related ergonomic boundaries.

Again, my comments are based on scientific study, facts, and personal experiences. As for the rabid N.St.Paul political arena I defer my comments to others more knowledgeable.
gtV
unclefogey

AOL

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#20
May 1, 2009
 

Judged:

1

1

1

Yes, gtV, I was hoping to stir up some righteous indignation in some of the sheep who make up the population of North St. Paul. It is obvious that none of them, besides myself, have read the story. The statement by the Prime Minister that the taxpayers of NSP will not have to pay for it, obviously has lulled them even deeper into sleep. Only those individuals who will be required to pay off the bonds, whomever they are because the powers that be are not saying who they are, will have to pay.

Another of the scientific statements which came forth about the turbine at the council meeting, was the fact(?) when the blades of the turbine are not turning, the chance that this is being caused by too much wind is just as great as too little wind.

Soooo, once this white elephant is built and on a light wind day you ask why the blades are not turning, the answer will be too little wind. But on a windy day, if the blades are not turning and you ask why the blades are not turning, the answer will be too much wind.

If that turbine on the hill on Hyway 169, north of Elk River and across the hyway from the landfill is any example, that might be a true statement. The times that I have driven by it, it has been not operating more than operating.

Tell me when this thread is updated: (Registration is not required)

Add to my Tracker Send me an email

Showing posts 1 - 20 of24
< prev page
|
Go to last page| Jump to page:
Type in your comments below
Name
(appears on your post)
Comments
Characters left: 4000
Type the numbers you see in the image on the right:

Please note by clicking on "Post Comment" you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

•••
•••
•••
•••

North St. Paul Jobs

•••
•••
•••

North St. Paul People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

•••

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]
•••