Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

Oct 12, 2011 Full story: CNN 32,004

Editor's note: Dean Obeidallah is an award-winning comedian who has appeared on TV shows such as Comedy Central's "Axis of Evil" special, ABC's "The View," CNN's "What the Week" and HLN's "The Joy Behar Show." He is executive producer of the annual New York Arab-American Comedy Festival and the Amman Stand Up Comedy Festival.

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“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

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#20425 Feb 19, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
I've told you time and time again, I don't play "shoulda, coulda, woulda." Smith is no Jesus Christ or even a Peter.
you lie and we all know it

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#20426 Feb 19, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
It was published by Deseret Books, which is owned by the LDS church. That makes it published by the LDS church.
Nope, it was published by Bookcraft, which was a privately owned company at the time it was printed. It was not owned by the church at that time.

You will also notice in the front cover of the book the words "The views expressed herein are the responsibility of the author and do not necessarily represent the position of the Church or of Deseret Book Company."

Could the book be any clearer?

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#20427 Feb 19, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
It was published by Deseret Books, which is owned by the LDS church. That makes it published by the LDS church.
You will also notice, in the front cover, the following words:

"This work is not an official publication of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

Dana,
Where did you hear that the Book "Mormon Doctrine" was published by the church?
Again

Morristown, TN

#20429 Feb 19, 2013
Gal. 1:6-9

Joseph Smith should have quoted those verses to the false angel Moroni. The word of god is indeed a 2 edged sword...if you know it well enough to use it properly.
Father overtime

Salt Lake City, UT

#20430 Feb 19, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll take a stab at this. Abraham had met him before, read Chapter 12, and 17. That is how he know who it was. As for the rest of your question, is anything impossible for God? Jesus has always been God.
Yes something's are impossible. God can't take away agency, and god can't tell everybody , this is my son in whom I am we'll pleased, and pretend to be Jesus at the same time. That would make god a ventriliquist and a liar. Nice try.
concerned in Egypt

Aberdeen, UK

#20431 Feb 19, 2013
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
We do not know how Christ could have seen it, perhaps in vision, but that does not prove that God is not a physical being.
You need to explain where you are going with these posted scriptures. I subscribe entirely to what I see in these scriptures. To me, what you have posted is simply defining the role of Jesus Christ and God the Father.
Look at it from another perspective. God the Father is invisible God because at no time were the Jews permitted to see Him, He has done everything through Christ who is Jehovah, "Who is the image of the invisible God." In other words, Jehovah who is Jesus Christ acted on behalf of God the father with his dealings with the Jews.
Forgive me if this is not the point you are trying to make. It was not quite clear to me. However if this was the point you were trying to make, God being invisible: This scripture can not mean that God is literally invisible.
Why can't God be invisible?
-Ezekiel had a vision of God in a form in human likeness.(Ez 1:26)
-Stephen saw "the Son of man standing on the right hand of God" (Acts 7:56)
-John saw God sitting on the throne in heaven (Rev 4:2)
-Moses was the "back parts" of God.(Exodus 33:22)
-Moses spoke to God face to face (Ex 33:11)
-Jacob saw God face to face (Gen 32:24-32)
If all these people have seen God, then in what sense is God invisible? And if they have seen him, what did they see, if not a physical being which can be distinguished?
First you said because Jesus saw God the Father in the Flesh you concluded that God the Father had Flesh.

I prove he did see God in the Flesh even with LDS teachings and now again you post this merry Go round post that ignores you fundamental error in logic.

Ro 1:19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
Ro 1:20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
Ro 1:21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
Ro 1:22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools

You have become a Fool
concerned in Egypt

Aberdeen, UK

#20432 Feb 19, 2013
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
We do not know how Christ could have seen it, perhaps in vision, but that does not prove that God is not a physical being.
You need to explain where you are going with these posted scriptures. I subscribe entirely to what I see in these scriptures. To me, what you have posted is simply defining the role of Jesus Christ and God the Father.
Look at it from another perspective. God the Father is invisible God because at no time were the Jews permitted to see Him, He has done everything through Christ who is Jehovah, "Who is the image of the invisible God." In other words, Jehovah who is Jesus Christ acted on behalf of God the father with his dealings with the Jews.
Forgive me if this is not the point you are trying to make. It was not quite clear to me. However if this was the point you were trying to make, God being invisible: This scripture can not mean that God is literally invisible.
Why can't God be invisible?
-Ezekiel had a vision of God in a form in human likeness.(Ez 1:26)
-Stephen saw "the Son of man standing on the right hand of God" (Acts 7:56)
-John saw God sitting on the throne in heaven (Rev 4:2)
-Moses was the "back parts" of God.(Exodus 33:22)
-Moses spoke to God face to face (Ex 33:11)
-Jacob saw God face to face (Gen 32:24-32)
If all these people have seen God, then in what sense is God invisible? And if they have seen him, what did they see, if not a physical being which can be distinguished?
The forum must ask themselves this question do you know what literary style is.

If we are to take your way of thinking as being correct we would have to concluded God is a Bird as in Pslams he surronds his people with his wings as a Hen does her chicks.

It is a metaphor.

So the LDS can take what ever indivdual verse they want and build a false doctrine frome it by ignoring the direct teachings of scripture Where God declares he is Spirit.

That is here nor there however to this thread as the premise of this Thread is whether or not Mormons are Christians.

All Sambrotherofnephi is showing us is there is no way they can be called Christian.
They believe completely opposite to what Biblical, 1st century, 300 AD 1000 AD and 2013 AD Christians believe.

You are entitled to your opinion your can believe what you want.

However you can not call it Christian as your SECT came 2000 Years after the FACT.

IF you wish to debate side issues I will meet you in another thread.

YOU can try all you want to take this thread down a rabbit trail that has nothing to do with the threads premise but I am no fool and I won't bite.

concerned in Egypt

Aberdeen, UK

#20433 Feb 19, 2013
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Purpose of sealing a man and a woman? To link the entire human family, so that we can maintain the same precious relationships in heaven that we have here. A word for your daughter: The doctrine of eternal marriage is one of the most empowering doctrines for women. A woman is not a man's play thing is this life to suffer child bearing and be cast off at the point of death never to be reunited with her husband and dear children. Our relationships in this life take on so much more significance when you understand that the bond you have and are strengthening in this life will continue in the next.
Simply because you do not explicitly read about temple marriages does not mean they did not happen. Many books of scripture where left out of the Bible we have today. As far as 2000 years passing without temple sealing occurring and now it taking place: It is a fulfillment of Malachi 4:5-6. "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."
In other words: Now, at this time, the sealing power has been restored and the hearts of the children are being turned to the fathers and we are sealing them to us to fulfill the great purpose of this earth. The goal is a united, sealed, and complete eternal family. Since many of the dead did not have this opportunity, we, the children, need to do it. Hence the turning of the hearts to the fathers.
That sounds very nice and is quite interesting its Mormon Doctrine but not Christian

Christians 2000 Years ago believed the following and we believe it today.

Mt 22:30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.

Angels in heaven are not married.

Another irrefutable fact why Mormons are not Christians they are MORMONS.
concerned in Egypt

Aberdeen, UK

#20434 Feb 19, 2013
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
I think it would be fair to apply that above quote to both men and women in the church. I don't believe I will be able to reach my fullest potential with out God the Father, Jesus Christ, the Holy Ghost and my dear wife helping me along the way.
Second, The Journal of Discourses is NOT an official publication of the Church. It has some doctrinal instruction but also some speculative teachings. See http://www.lds.org/topics/journal-of-discours...
A much more solid doctrinal source would be one of the 4 standard works.
Regarding the doctrine of marriage, God has said:
-Demonstrating the importance of a woman-
"thou shalt love thy wife with all thy heart..." (D&C 42:22)
-Demonstrating equal partnership and responsibility for salvation-
"For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband..." (D&C 74:1)
See also D&C 132 for equal roles in a Celestial marriage.
That is what I would designate as speculative, fringe, and immaterial.
Well how convenient you have all these beliefs that are contrary to christian beliefs most cannot be found in your standard works but are found in the J&C which were considered equal to the BOM in there day you only have to read the preface to them to know that as was the book Mormon Doctrine but as the LDS sect has tried to go mainstream USA they now distance themselves from these books as to embrace them as former LDS did does not help the recruitment process.

The fact that they exist the fact that your sect has to distance themselves from them now shows you are not Christians your Faith is in a constant state of Flux and change.

One minute Blacks are out one minute they are in.
One minute you need temple marriage to be exalted the next you don't

Whatever its so convoluted that to try and find out what LDS believe today is like trying to predict where a fly is going land.

What can say conclusively is it is not Christian.
concerned in Egypt

Aberdeen, UK

#20435 Feb 19, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm game for this :)
Please explain the following if Jesus only had 'spiritual means' to see/understand with 'prior' to his being born a couple thousand years later okay?
Gen. 18:1 Now the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day. 2 When he lifted up his eyes and looked, behold, three men were standing opposite him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them and bowed himself to the earth, 3 and said,“My Lord, if now I have found favor in Your sight, please do not pass Your servant by.
So we have Abraham sitting by the door of his tent in the middle of what was probably a hot day and Abraham was between doing chores.
Than we have the LORD Jesus Christ(not God the Father)suddenly appearing with two angels.
Now this is the important part to consider and chew on before you respond. If Jesus didn't posses a boby that he could be discerned by by others with the human eye some 2000 years later, how is it Abraham was able to discern the human form of the Lord and the human form of his two angels? What is more that many miss about this moment, is how did Abraham RECOGNIZE the Lord if Abraham had never seen the Lord before? If the Lord possessed no physical form, how was Abraham recognizing the Lord and two angels as he would recognize any other human being?
More than that, in these 'forms' the Lord and his two angels ate and drank liquid and solids as Abraham ate. How does a spirit without form or shape as you claim of God prior to his birth, how does he take on a human form of some type solid substance so that not only is he seen, but he eats and drinks and he is recognized meaning Abraham has seen the Lord before.
This is one case in which I will answer your question with a question that to which I am not to found of doing.

HOW COULD Abraham recongnize somebody he had never seen before right of the Bat??

When you answer that question you will have the answer to your question.

REMEMBER he had never seen Jesus before.

REMEMBER even by LDS teachings Jesus did not dwell in the flesh or have flesh till the Incarnation when his flesh was born to Mary.

YOU have not thought this through take some time.
concerned in Egypt

Aberdeen, UK

#20436 Feb 19, 2013
FYI
http://www.leaderu.com/offices/michaeldavis/d...

Mormon Doctrine:

Mormon Doctrine - written by Mormon Apostle and apologist Bruce McConkie, and published in 1966; this is a widely-used guide to L.D.S. doctrine, found in many households of active Mormons in the USA.
Doctrines of Salvation -written by Joseph Fielding Smith.
(A Study of) the Articles of Faith - Principle Doctrines of the LDS church discussed by J.E. Talmage, an LDS apostle. Published by Deseret Book Co.(official LDS publisher), 1st edition in 1899. First given as a series of lectures, then published by the church as The Articles of Faith , the only authorized, book-length explication of Mormon belief.
Gospel Principles - an LDS church publication used to teach new members the doctrines of their church. Substantial differences exist between the 1978 and 1986 editions, proof that some doctrines are revised and "toned down".
Gospel Through the Ages - Milton R. Hunter. Published by Deseret Book Co., 1945.
The Way to Perfection - Joseph Fielding Smith.
The Miracle of Forgiveness - Spencer W. Kimball.
Transcribed Sermons of Early LDS Church Leaders:

Journal of Discourses - Sermons delivered by LDS church authorities from Nov. 1, 1853 to May 17, 1886 (26 vols., weekly or semi-weekly). Some leaders proclaimed their sermons to be scripture.
Times and Seasons - Claims to contain "a compendium of intelligence pertaining to the upbuilding of the kingdom of God with useful information in regard to doctrine of the LDS church". Edited by Joseph Smith and others, 1839-1854, 6 vols., monthly.
The Seer - Edited by Orson Pratt, 1853-1854, 2 vols, monthly.
Lectures on Faith - Delivered to the School of the Prophets in Kirtland, Ohio, 1854-1855. Published by Deseret Book Co., 1985.
LDS Church History:

History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints - Documents of the early LDS church (by Joseph Smith, 7 vols. ed. by B.H. Roberts, 2nd ed., The Deseret Book Co., Salt Lake City, 1978). Note: some of these (vol. 1, chp. 1-5; vol. 2, p.235-236, 348-351; vol.4, p.535-542) were later incorporated into the Pearl of Great Price and therefore designated as LDS "scripture".
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith (Deseret Book Company, Salt Lake City, 1938)
A Comprehensive History of the Church - by B.H. Roberts, Church Historian (1857-1933), Deseret Book Co., 1930.
History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints - by B.H. Roberts, 7 vols., 1902.
Historical Record - by Andrew Jensen.
Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball - collection of teachings by the 12th LDS President.
Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson - collection of teachings by the 13th LDS President.
Miscellaneous LDS Publications:

The Ensign - current and official LDS church magazine.
Millenial Star - Periodical published by the LDS church, 1840-1970, monthly, semi-monthly or weekly.
Deseret News - Official LDS church periodical from 1850-1898, 57 vols, 1st newspaper in Utah.
Tribune - Salt Lake City Newspaper.
Improvement Era - official LDS church magazine, replaced by the Ensign around 1970.
Church News - LDS church periodical.
Sunstone - periodical not officially sponsored or published by the LDS Church, but regularly features Mormon subject matter or Mormon authors.
What Mormons Think of Christ - LDS tract, Deseret News Press.
Come Unto Christ - by Ezra Taft Benson.
Encyclopedia of Mormonism - a 1992 work published under the supervision of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles of the LDS church.
sunshine

Canyon Country, CA

#20437 Feb 19, 2013
Why do the mormons take these young girls to come to their house and do their dirty work and not pay them? I know a mormon who does this and takes advantage but claims she is a good mormon. This is supposed to be part of their religion. It is not a religion but a tax evasion for many and no more than a cult. Maybe they still believe in slavery.
concerned in Egypt

Aberdeen, UK

#20438 Feb 19, 2013
Contrary to some on this thread this is not a fringe LDS teaching.

The Mormon church teaches that "God was once a man who achieved godhood". This doctrine, "eternal progression" is central to Mormonism, as stated in one of their frequently-used quotes:

"As man is, God once was: as God is, man may be" (Lorenzo Snow, Millenial Star, vol.54).
In Mormon theology, those who achieve godhood will have spirit children who will worship and pray to them just as we worship and pray to God the Father (Gospel Principles, p.290). A pictoral diagram of the Mormon view of eternal progression can be found here. This is not an isolated teaching: it has been taught by a large number of prominent LDS leaders, including its founders:
Joseph Smith taught: "I will prove that the world is wrong, by showing what God is...God himself was once as we are now and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret...I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.345);
Joseph Smith continues: "God himself...is a man like unto one of yourselves...God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth...You have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves" (Times and Seasons, vol.5, pp.613-614); "Here then is eternal life---to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves...the same as all Gods have done before you...To inherit the same power, the same glory and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a God" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.346-347).
Brigham Young taught: "He [God]...was once a man in mortal flesh as we are, and is now an exalted being...It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God was once been a finite being" (Journal of Discourses, vol.7, p.333); "The Lord created you and me for the purpose of becoming Gods like himself" (Journal of Discourses, vol.3, p.93).
Here is Joseph Smith's revelation about Mormons attaining to the celestial kingdom: "These are they who received the testimony of Jesus, and believed on his name and were baptized...who have received of his fullness, and of his glory...they are gods" (Doctrine and Covenants 76: 51-58).
James Talmage explains: "We believe in a God who is Himself progressive...whose perfection consists in eternal advancement...a Being who has attained His exalted state"(A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.430, 1952).
Heber C. Kimbal wrote: "We shall go back to our Father and God, who is connected with one who is still farther back; and this Father is connected with one still farther back, and so on" (Journal of Discourses, vol.5, p.19); "our God is a natural man...where did he get his knowledge from? From his father, just as we get our knowledge from our earthly parents" (Journal of Discourses, vol.8, p.211).
Orson Pratt wrote: "The Gods who dwell in heaven...were once in a fallen state...they were exalted also, from fallen men to celestial Gods" (The Seer, p.23); "our Father in Heaven was begotten on a previous heavenly world by His Father; "He was begotten by a still more ancient Father; and so on from generation to generation, from one heavenly world to another" (The Seer, p.132).

cont....
concerned in Egypt

Aberdeen, UK

#20439 Feb 19, 2013
Milton R. Hunter wrote: "God the Eternal Father was once a mortal man who passed through a school of earth life similar to that through which we are now passing. He became a God" (The Gospel Through the Ages, p.104);"there was a time when the Deity was much less powerful than He is today...He grew in experience and continued to grow until He attained the status of Godhood. In other words, He became a God by absolute obedience..." (The Gospel Through the Ages, p.114-115).
Bruce McConkie states: "God himself, the Father of us all, is a glorious, exalted, immortal, resurrected man" (Mormon Doctrine, p.642-643); "God...is a personal Being, a holy and exalted man...an anthropomorphic entity" (Mormon Doctrine, p.250); "as the Prophet [Joseph Smith] also taught,'there is a God above the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ'" (Mormon Doctrine, p.322, 1966).
Joseph Fielding Smith stated: "God is an exalted man...our Father in Heaven at one time passed through a life and death and is an exalted man...The Prophet [Joseph Smith] taught that our Father had a Father and so on...promises are made to us that we may become like him" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol.1, p.10-12).
Mormon leaders have continued to teach this doctrine, as is evident by a few quotes from recent President and Prophet Spencer W. Kimball in official LDS periodicals:

"Brethren, 225,000 of you are here tonight. I suppose that 225,000 of you may become gods" (from a speech published in The Ensign, November 1975, 1980).
"In each of us is the potentiality to become a God" (Tribune, Oct. 7, 1974).
"Man can transform himself, but he has in him the seeds of Godhood that can grow. He can lift himself by his very bootstraps" (Tribune, Sept. 18, 1974).
"In spite of the opposition of the sects, in the face of direct charges of blasphemy, the [LDS] Church proclaims the eternal truth:'As man is God once was; as God is, man may be'" (James Talmage in The Articles of Faith, a widely circulated LDS doctrinal book).
Current President and Prophet Gordon Hinkley admits, albeit reluctantly, in recent interviews to believing this doctrine (San Francisco Chronicle, Sunday, 4/13/97, page 3/Z13; Time magazine August 4, 1997):

"President Gordon Hinckley says the concept of God having been a man is not stressed any longer, but he [Hinckley] does believe that human beings can become gods in the afterlife" (Richard Ostling, interviewer for Time magazine).
Hinckley states: "Well, they [men] can achieve to a godly status, yes, of course they can, eternal progression. We believe in the progression of the human soul. Ours is a forward-looking religion. It's an upward-looking religion" (Public Broadcasting System; transcript dated July 18, 1997).
Attempts to tone down the importance of this doctrine are reflected in changes made to the recent edition of the LDS book Gospel Principles, which is used to teach new members the doctrines of their church. Here is one example:

The 1978 edition reads: "We can become Gods like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation" (Gospel Principles, p.290, 1978);
but the 1997 edition reads: "We can become like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation" (Gospel Principles, p.302, 1997).

For anyone to claim this is Christian well then so are Muslims Hindus and Buddhists.

References: Mormon vs Biblical Teachings about God

http://www.leaderu.com/offices/michaeldavis/d...

Get the truth your eternal destination is in the balance.

Truth Matters Mormons are not Christians
sunshine

Canyon Country, CA

#20440 Feb 19, 2013
Let's face it they were a bunch of men who were smoking pot and raping women who founded this cult. Back then most people were ignorant and fell for anything that sounded like hope.
concerned in Egypt

Aberdeen, UK

#20441 Feb 19, 2013
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
You will also notice, in the front cover, the following words:
"This work is not an official publication of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."
Dana,
Where did you hear that the Book "Mormon Doctrine" was published by the church?
Is it not so convenient for the LDS to say its not official but sell it online at Dessert book.com with heading bringing values home since 1866

with this intro to the book This work on Mormon Doctrine is designed to help persons seeking salvation to gain that knowledge of God and his laws without which they cannot hope for an inheritance in the celestial city.

Since it is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance of God and his laws, and since man is saved no faster than he gains knowledge of Jesus Christ and the plan of salvation, it follows that men are obligated at their peril to learn and apply the true doctrines of the gospel.

This gospel compendium will enable men, more effectively, to "teach one another the doctrine of the kingdom;" to "be instructed more perfectly in theory, in principle, in doctrine, in the law of the gospel, in all things that pertain unto the kingdom of God, that are expedient" for them "to understand." (D. & C. 88:77-78.)

For the work itself, I assume sole and full responsibility.

Salt Lake City, Utah
June 1, 1958
Bruce R. McConkie

Let us not forget who Bruce McConkie became A apostle in the LDS sect after writing the book and was a member of the quorum of 70. when he wrote the book.

BASICALLY THIS IS HOW THE LDS TREAT THE BOOK.

We believe this except when you use it to prove we are not Christian then its unofficial and a fringe document but but in the temple we practice what it teaches but we don't tell you that.

HYPOCRITES
concerned in Egypt

Aberdeen, UK

#20442 Feb 20, 2013
Brigham Young

"I have never yet preached a sertuon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture. Let me have the privilege of correcting a sermon, and it is as good a scripture" (Journa1 of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 95; also see vol. 13, p. 264).

"I say, rather than the apostates should flourish here, I will unsheath my Bowie knife, and conquer or die.[Great commotion in the congregation, and a simultaneous burst of feeling, assenting to the declaration.] Now, you nasty apostates, clear out, or judgment will be put on the line ... If you say it is right, raise your hands [All hands up], let us call upon the Lord to assist us in this, and every good work." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 83)

"I could refer you to plenty of instances where men have been righteously slain, in order to atone for their sins ... This is loving our neighbor as ourselves, if he needs help, help him, and if he wants salvation and it is necessary to spill his blood on the earth in order that he may be saved, spill it." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, p. 220).[Many were killed under what is called the "Blood Atonement Doctrine" Leaving Mormonism was one of the sins that the blood of Jesus could not atone for, and a person's own blood must be shed by Mormon priests as an atonement for sin.]

"I intend to meet them on their own grounds.... and if any miserable scoundrel comes here, cut their throats." [And they obeyed; a wagon train of innocent men, women, and children were massacred at Mountain Meadows under the orders of Brigham Young. They were passing through Utah, and Brigham thought they were from Illinois where Joseph Smith had been killed. Many more were "atoned."]

"Gold and silver grow, and so does every other kind of metal, the same as the hair upon my head or the wheat in the field; ..." (JOD., vol. 1, p. 219).

"Who can tell us of the inhabitants of this little planet that shines of an evening, called the Moon?... So it is with regard to the inhabitants of the Sun. Do you not think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No Question of it; it was not made in vain." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 219).

"Do you think we shall ever be admitted as a State into the Union without denying the principal of polygamy? If we are not admitted until then, we shall never be admitted." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 11, p. 269).[The Edmunds Act was passed in 1882 forbidding polygamy in the territory, and only then was Utah allowed to enter the Union. At that point the LDS church officially gave up polygamy. Another false prophecy from the Mormon prophet!]

"I think these preliminaries will satisfy me, and I feel prepared to take my text. It is the words of Jesus Christ, but where they are in the Bible I cannot tell you now, for I have not taken pains to look at them. I have had so much to do, that I have not read the Bible for many years. I used to read and study it, but did not understand the spirit and meaning of it ..." (1854 Conference discourse, October 8).[Brigham Young obviously did not understand the Bible, and neither do any of the other Mormon prophets!]
concerned in Egypt

Aberdeen, UK

#20443 Feb 20, 2013
Joseph Smith

"God made Aaron to be the mouthpiece for the children of Israel, and He will make me to be God to you in His stead, and the elders to be mouth for me; and if you don't like it, you must lump it" (Documentary History of the Church, vol. 6, pp 319-320).

"I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I" (D.H C., vol. 6, p. 408-409).

"The whole Earth shall bear me witness that I, like the towering rock in the midst of the ocean, which has withstood the mighty surges of the warring waves for centuries, am impregnable ... I combat the errors of ages; I meet the violence of mobs; I cope with illegal proceedings from executive authority; I cut the gordian knot of powers, and I solve mathematical problems of universities, with truth -- diamond truth; and God is my right hand man." (D.H.C., Vol. 6, p. 78).

"And I prophesy in the name of the Lord God of Israel, unless the United States redress the wrongs committed upon the Saints in Missouri and punish the crimes committed by her officers that in a few years the government will be utterly overthrown and wasted and there will not be so much as a potsherd left,..." (D.H C., vol. 5, p. 394).[This prophecy was made in May of 1843, and the United States government has not been overthrown and wasted.]

"Here then is eternal life -- to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you..." (Teachings of the Prophet, Joseph Smith, p. 346).

"In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it" (Ibid., p. 349).

"The greatest responsibility in this world that God has laid upon us is to seek after our dead" [Our God of the Bible has forbidden us to have anything to do with the dead (Deut. 18:10,11).

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#20444 Feb 20, 2013
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope, it was published by Bookcraft, which was a privately owned company at the time it was printed. It was not owned by the church at that time.
You will also notice in the front cover of the book the words "The views expressed herein are the responsibility of the author and do not necessarily represent the position of the Church or of Deseret Book Company."
Could the book be any clearer?
Why would it say "not necessarily represent the position of the... Deseret Book Company" If it wasn't published by Deseret?

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#20445 Feb 20, 2013
Father overtime wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes something's are impossible. God can't take away agency, and god can't tell everybody , this is my son in whom I am we'll pleased, and pretend to be Jesus at the same time. That would make god a ventriliquist and a liar. Nice try.
Your ignorance in the teaching of the Trinity does help you. There is nothing my God can't do, why is your God limited?

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