Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

There are 31994 comments on the CNN story from Oct 12, 2011, titled Who says Mormons aren't Christians?. In it, CNN reports that:

Editor's note: Dean Obeidallah is an award-winning comedian who has appeared on TV shows such as Comedy Central's "Axis of Evil" special, ABC's "The View," CNN's "What the Week" and HLN's "The Joy Behar Show." He is executive producer of the annual New York Arab-American Comedy Festival and the Amman Stand Up Comedy Festival.

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“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19377 Dec 15, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Mind a suggestion? Understand the doctrine first before you attack it.
Temple work for the dead isn't done to forgive a single solitary sin. So you're incorrect to think that is what the procedures are for.
If I had claimed that, you would be correct, but you are wrong as usual. I said the temple work for the dead is done for the salvation of the dead.
Jesus said in various ways, if you seek salvation do as he did. A plain and simple command from Jesus Christ himself. Do as he did.
And to put our faith in him. The thief on the cross was saved by his faith in Christ alone.
Jesus had himself immersed in water as part of a baptismal rite he subjected himself to doing.
Remember Jesus said to do as he did, to follow him in what he did and believed. Immersion in water is something he did. He commanded us to follow him and do as he did. What do you think will happen at the time of judgement to those that will be asked, "Have you followed my commandments? Have you did as I did? Have you believed as I believed? Have you loved as I loved? Have you forgiven as I have forgiven?
Yes, Jesus was perfect, so that his sacrifice would be sufficient to cover the sins of those who wasn't.
When people answer no I haven't for this reason or that reason, what do you think will happen to them? What will happen to those who purposefully for whatever reasoning didn't do as Jesus did and made exceptions to which commands they'd follow and which they wouldn't? What do you think will happen to those who didn't know about everything that Jesus did and thus weren't able to do as he did? What do you think will happen to those that didn't have the teachings of Jesus at all in their lives?
As we all sin daily, when you put your hope in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, his grace covers your sin. No one has ever stopped sinning. If you have broken one law, you have broken them all. It is only because of the atonement of the blood of Christ that we are able to be perfect before God, which Jesus did require. As for those who have never heard of the message of Jesus Christ, Paul said they will be judged according to their knowledge, because the law is written in our hearts.
Do you really think God gave commands to be followed and if you didn't follow them for whatever reason/excuse, he's going to say it's okay? That you're an exception to the commands you didn't obey?
Show me anyone besides Christ who has ever been able to keep the whole law. According to you, you certainly wouldn't be an example of that.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19378 Dec 15, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Dana, all that he said ^ up there ^, I'm on that boat.:-)
Thanks for the bail out No Surprise.
So you belong to "The Church of Jewish Beliefs of Latter-day Saints" also?
I'll stick with Jesus.

“ Soon: too late to protest”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#19380 Dec 15, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
If the dead know nothing, why did the Savior of the world teach the dead in prison? Our spirits still exist after we die, for Christ told the thief on the cross that he would be with him in paradise that same day.
References for Christ teaching people in spirit prison:
See 1 Peter 3:18-19
"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison."
Or Isa 42:7 or Isa 24:22
Or why did Christ say that he would speak to the dead if the dead know nothing?
John 5:25-28 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice."
Evidently your false Bible left out the part where Jesus descended into hell after he was crucified. It was a one-time thing.
True Christianity makes it clear that this world is where we make our decision for or against the truth, but your false religion teaches that there’s no difference, that if you choose to be evil here, you get another chance in the spirit world. So why did God even bother to create this world, and make it the opposite of the next life? Your religion is a joke, a man-made bunch of goofs and mistakes that have to be fixed and hidden from the masses.
People like you, who cling to the lies no matter what, will not be saved, so I’m really speaking to those who choose the one true God and His rules.

“ Soon: too late to protest”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#19381 Dec 15, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Paul cites the practice of baptisms for the dead as evidence for the resurrection.
1 Cor 15:29 "Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?"
It seems implied in this statement that baptisms for the dead were common practice in Christ's time, at least common practice enough for Paul to use it for evidence of the resurrection.
It’s interesting that Mormons focus on this controversial passage to validate something so evil as to throw out the Gospel of salvation.
The truth is that Jesus’ death on the cross saves us, so saying that people can reject that truth and be saved by the deeds of others is absolutely satanic. There was no Christian baptism before Jesus, and I think He may have gone to baptize those who were dead, to raise them to heaven now that He had been crucified. That makes a lot more sense than God throwing our His Son’s crucifixion because you are so great that you can outdo Jesus. That’s obviously what Satan wants, and you’ve decided to be HIS satanic disciple.

To those of you who want the truth, focus on the fact that Jesus came to save us, and if you don’t have that, you have nothing. Don’t let liars deceive you or distract you with these tricks. It’s what they do to con people. They can’t let you know the truth because it exposes their lies.
Does it make any sense at all, that people can be mass murderers here on earth, and then get to heaven by doing NOTHING, while Christians work to be good Christians and some have to give their lives for their faith?
Of course not, but people are so easily deceived by having their attention diverted to issues that mean nothing, or that are so controversial we don’t know, and that have nothing to do with you.
There is no free ride. We are held accountable for the decisions we make here.
THIS WORLD is where we were placed, to make the most important decision we’ll ever make, and to use our God-given brains to seek the truth. This is where we make OUR DECISION.
(next post)

“ Soon: too late to protest”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#19382 Dec 15, 2012
Warnings: Godless ministers, priests, Mormons, televangelists, Jehovah’s... http://www.topix.com/forum/us/politics/TQPFM8...

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#19383 Dec 15, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, a tired old statement proven wrong by the fact that Paul certainly new the law of the Jews, that not one scripture in the Old Testament backs up your claim, and lastly, we are talking about what Jesus taught what the why he said it was going to be. Now I follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, not Jewish traditions. And the LDS church claims to be "the church of Jesus Christ", not "The Church of Jewish Traditions." When it comes to what Jesus taught, I'll stick with the expert, Jesus Christ.
This is a simple question with a simple answer. The fact is that written evidence exists that ancient Jews 2000 years ago believed in eternal marriage and an eternal after life. This information was passed down to them from the laws of Moses, the writings of Moses and other prophets of the Israelites. The Bible writers speak of writings and works not contained in the Bible. Even Jesus referenced a prophecy that isn't contained in the Bible. Do you know what it was? Point being, either God influenced the prophets or he didn't, there isn't a middle ground as you'd like to think existed.
I showed you information long ago of which Israelite prophet taught eternal marriage.
So who do you think gave this information of eternal marriage to those Israelite prophets? God or Satan? If you claim Satan, then you have established that those prophets received inspirational knowledge from God and Satan. Your task now is to prove what information came from God and which came from Satan. Can you do that?

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#19384 Dec 15, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
If I had claimed that, you would be correct, but you are wrong as usual. I said the temple work for the dead is done for the salvation of the dead.
You did state and insinuate that the temple ordinances were done to relieve/help forgive one of sin.
You stated..."...Temple work for the dead is a statement that the Mormon church doesn't believe the blood of Christ covers all sin and is sufficient for our salvation. You are saying his(Jesus's) work wasn't enough."

You did state and insinuate that the ordinances done in temples was to relieve/help one from sin. That isn't why their done and you should know that having been a Mormon.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#19385 Dec 15, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
Show me anyone besides Christ who has ever been able to keep the whole law. According to you, you certainly wouldn't be an example of that.
You didn't answer the question as I asked it. So I'll rephrase it.

Jesus said to do as he did. Jesus suffered himself to baptism by immersion in water.
In your opinion of what you know of the NT, is a person that knows the gospel of Jesus, are they or are they not committing a sin by choosing not to be baptised by immersion as Jesus did it and told us, commanded us, to do as he did?

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#19386 Dec 15, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
So you belong to "The Church of Jewish Beliefs of Latter-day Saints" also?
I'll stick with Jesus.
You do realize that the Jesus/God of the NT was the same Jesus/God of the OT? Take away the name Jesus if you wish. The fact remains the same. The God of the NT is the same God of the OT.
All Christian beliefs were predicated on former beliefs established by Moses ans the OT prophets coming after Moses. All beliefs given to Moses and the prophets following him were to replace the laws lost during the Israelites captivity prior to Moses being born that were held from Adam to Noah to Abraham.
Or do you think the same gospel was given exactly in the same context from Adam to Jesus?
Jesus was raised a Jew. he was out teaching/correcting the laws of Moses that had been added to and subtracted from by the priests since sometime after Moses's death. He found what they taught perverse and incorrect from what had once been taught/said.
So when you state you'll stick to Jesus, unknowingly your stating you'll stick to Jewish teachings Christ gave from Adam to himself.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19387 Dec 15, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
This is a simple question with a simple answer. The fact is that written evidence exists that ancient Jews 2000 years ago believed in eternal marriage and an eternal after life. This information was passed down to them from the laws of Moses, the writings of Moses and other prophets of the Israelites. The Bible writers speak of writings and works not contained in the Bible. Even Jesus referenced a prophecy that isn't contained in the Bible. Do you know what it was? Point being, either God influenced the prophets or he didn't, there isn't a middle ground as you'd like to think existed.
I showed you information long ago of which Israelite prophet taught eternal marriage.
So who do you think gave this information of eternal marriage to those Israelite prophets? God or Satan? If you claim Satan, then you have established that those prophets received inspirational knowledge from God and Satan. Your task now is to prove what information came from God and which came from Satan. Can you do that?
You haven't shown anything from scripture, Jewish or otherwise, and again, Jesus said it wasn't so. Jesus outranks any Prophet of the Old Testament in the subject of anything concerning his Gospel. The Old Testament clearly taught that working on Sunday was a death sentence. Yet Jesus clearly did too, collected food in the fields, and that was in scripture, unlike your claim of eternal marriage. When it comes to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, Jesus is first, the Old Testament is second, and no mention whatsoever in either isn't even a factor.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19388 Dec 15, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
You do realize that the Jesus/God of the NT was the same Jesus/God of the OT? Take away the name Jesus if you wish. The fact remains the same. The God of the NT is the same God of the OT.
All Christian beliefs were predicated on former beliefs established by Moses ans the OT prophets coming after Moses. All beliefs given to Moses and the prophets following him were to replace the laws lost during the Israelites captivity prior to Moses being born that were held from Adam to Noah to Abraham.
Or do you think the same gospel was given exactly in the same context from Adam to Jesus?
Jesus was raised a Jew. he was out teaching/correcting the laws of Moses that had been added to and subtracted from by the priests since sometime after Moses's death. He found what they taught perverse and incorrect from what had once been taught/said.
So when you state you'll stick to Jesus, unknowingly your stating you'll stick to Jewish teachings Christ gave from Adam to himself.
And the Jesus of the New Testament said there wasn't going to be any eternal marriage. The Old Testament is silent altogether on the issue. You have nothing that is considered scripture to support it.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19389 Dec 15, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
You didn't answer the question as I asked it. So I'll rephrase it.
Jesus said to do as he did. Jesus suffered himself to baptism by immersion in water.
In your opinion of what you know of the NT, is a person that knows the gospel of Jesus, are they or are they not committing a sin by choosing not to be baptised by immersion as Jesus did it and told us, commanded us, to do as he did?
By immersion only? No. That wouldn't be a sin. But even if it were, if they have put their faith in the grace of Jesus Christ, he paid for that sin.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19390 Dec 15, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
You did state and insinuate that the temple ordinances were done to relieve/help forgive one of sin.
You stated..."...Temple work for the dead is a statement that the Mormon church doesn't believe the blood of Christ covers all sin and is sufficient for our salvation. You are saying his(Jesus's) work wasn't enough."
You did state and insinuate that the ordinances done in temples was to relieve/help one from sin. That isn't why their done and you should know that having been a Mormon.
In a way it is. Because if it is a sin not to get your temple endowment, what they are doing is to covering the requirement for the person unable to do it.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19391 Dec 15, 2012
And baptism for the dead is certainly done for the remission of their sins. Come to thing of it, you're the one who doesn't know what he is talking about.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#19392 Dec 15, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
You haven't shown anything from scripture, Jewish or otherwise, and again, Jesus said it wasn't so. Jesus outranks any Prophet of the Old Testament in the subject of anything concerning his Gospel. The Old Testament clearly taught that working on Sunday was a death sentence. Yet Jesus clearly did too, collected food in the fields, and that was in scripture, unlike your claim of eternal marriage. When it comes to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, Jesus is first, the Old Testament is second, and no mention whatsoever in either isn't even a factor.
You haven't taken any actual time to understand that short conversation that took place between Jesus and the Sadducee's. You read it to support your opinion that there is no such thing as eternal marriage to you.
Unfortunately, by your opinion that there isn't any such thing as eternal marriage, you have set forth a limitation by opinion of what is eternal and what isn't according to your logic. You have put into question by your logic that blessings aren't eternal. You have set forth by your logic cursings aren't eternal. Your personal interpretation of what is eternal and what isn't can put everything into doubt as to what is eternal and what isn't by your logic. Are you ready to go there?
Remember the verse, what God has put together, let no man separate?
What do you think that speaks of? Remember this important thing about that statement. It doesn't say what man has put together, let no man separate. See the difference?
I took the following from a non-Mormon religious site discussing marriage and divorce...
"In the New Testament, Jesus confirmed the permanence of marriage, directly quoting the Genesis account. Notice:“And He answered and said unto them, Have you not read, that He which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?”(Matt. 19:4-5).
While Christ was obviously quoting Genesis 2, He continued by adding this in verse 6:“Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.”
Now what do you think God could put together by his power that humans have been warned not to separate? The obvious answer is marriage between a man and woman, that have been married by the power of God that a person appointed by the Lord has. Men in general, religious or not, cannot prove they have the power of God to marry people. They can claim to have that power but can't prove it.
Following this? Who then separates a man and woman from marriage, God or humans? Humans of course. And neither did God ever state death separated a man and woman who were married by the power of God.
Now two people not married by the power of God, they are subjected to limitations concerning their marriage in this life. At death or by divorce they will and can be separated.
Now if you wish to ignore this difference of people being married by the power of God and people being married by the power of mankind, I'll expect it from you.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#19393 Dec 15, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
And the Jesus of the New Testament said there wasn't going to be any eternal marriage. The Old Testament is silent altogether on the issue. You have nothing that is considered scripture to support it.
Which old testament do you refer to? The one put together by narrow minded Christian men 1800 years ago, claiming celibacy not marriage got one to heaven? Are you referring to those early fathers that almost put the church of Rome to ruin because they were so anti-marriage? Did you know about that? It has a connection to the importance of marriage God spoke of that the early Christian fathers in Rome rejected and wouldn't read about to the few converts they had.
To be a priest in that early church, you had to be A. celibate from childhood or B. converted to celibacy for life. They had no married priests for centuries. The early church was made up of mostly single/celibate parishioners, did you know that? Did you know that families in church didn't happen in those very early times? Did you know that only after priests/clergy and single celibate parishioners began to die off and the church membership shrank and shrank that they began to allow married couples into the church?
The very early church of Rome was anti-marriage! Please don't believe me! Please Google the web for this information and learn from sources you'll find.
You missed the following from a book copied by Jews who's original source is how old?
The pre-Christian book of Enoch says that the righteous after the resurrection shall live so long that they shall beget thousands. The received doctrine is laid down by Rabbi Saadia, who says,'As the son of the widow of Sarepton, and the son of the Shunamite, ate and drank, and doubtless married wives, so shall it be in the resurrection'; and by Maimonides, who says,'Men after the resurrection will use meat and drink, and will beget children, because since the Wise Architect makes nothing in vain, it follows of necessity that the members of the body are not useless, but fulfill their functions.' The point raised by the Sadducees was often debated by the Jewish doctors, who decided that 'a woman who married two husbands in this world is restored to the first in the next.'" (Dummelow, p. 698.)

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#19394 Dec 15, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
By immersion only? No. That wouldn't be a sin. But even if it were, if they have put their faith in the grace of Jesus Christ, he paid for that sin.
You didn't answer the question.
God gave commandments to be obeyed when he walked this earth.
God said to do as he did.
God subjected himself to be immersed in water by John the Baptist that had the power of God to baptise converts.
If one knows the commandments of God and knows God had himself baptised by immersion, if one knows God commanded, COMMANDED US to do as he did, if they reject baptism by immersion as he did it, are they committing a sin or not by refusing to obey his command to do as he did?
Yes or no?

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#19395 Dec 15, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
And baptism for the dead is certainly done for the remission of their sins. Come to thing of it, you're the one who doesn't know what he is talking about.
You're getting way out there. I never said that baptism for the dead was done for the remission of sins for an individual so they were forgiven their sins. I NEVER stated any such thing. But you did, not I, understand the twist you did?
This is why I stated to you, suggested to you to understand a doctrine before you attack it.
A baptism for the dead done in the temples gives no spirit forgiveness of their sins. The Mormon doctrine teaches baptism for the dead "affords" departed spirits forgiveness IF they accept the proxy baptism done for them because for whatever reason they didn't do it while living. Understand the difference between what you say the doctrine means and what it actually means?

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#19396 Dec 15, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
By immersion only? No. That wouldn't be a sin. But even if it were, if they have put their faith in the grace of Jesus Christ, he paid for that sin.
So if anyone rejecting baptism by immersion is forgiven the moment they put their faith in Jesus, then we can use your belief for murders like Hitler and Stalin, the horrendous acts of the Nazi soldiers against the Jews, Judas's betrayal and suicide, we can use your belief for any sin any one commits if afterwards they put their faith in the grace of Jesus now or in the next life! Wow, I haven't read that in the NT before. Interesting opinion I guess.

“ Soon: too late to protest”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#19397 Dec 15, 2012
the rest of us wrote:
<quoted text>
No numbnuts, nobody cares to read your fart in a windstorm comments on here. Just like in your real life, nobody listens to you on topix either. Go get some help with your hate and anger before you physically harm someone.
Your pathetic comments are all like this one - nothing but hatred, hot air, saying nothing at all, but so intimidated and so jealous of those who do have something to say, that you just can't stop making a fool of yourself.
I feel sorry for you. You know I'm right and you just can't think of anything to say to prove me wrong. BooHoo...

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