Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

There are 32099 comments on the CNN story from Oct 12, 2011, titled Who says Mormons aren't Christians?. In it, CNN reports that:

Editor's note: Dean Obeidallah is an award-winning comedian who has appeared on TV shows such as Comedy Central's "Axis of Evil" special, ABC's "The View," CNN's "What the Week" and HLN's "The Joy Behar Show." He is executive producer of the annual New York Arab-American Comedy Festival and the Amman Stand Up Comedy Festival.

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“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19311 Dec 10, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
What part of the plan can not be found in the bible?
That man can become Gods. The teaching of eternal marriage. That your salvation or final glory depends on how well you keep the commandments.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#19312 Dec 10, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands;
Eternal Marriage. Jesus said there will be no marriage in the resurrection:
Matthew 22:30
For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.
Becoming Gods. God makes it clear that there will be no other Gods:
This explains the marriage situation.
http://en.fairmormon.org/Marriage/As_a_requir...

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#19313 Dec 10, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
That man can become Gods. The teaching of eternal marriage. That your salvation or final glory depends on how well you keep the commandments.
Christ said that we would be rewarded according to our deeds.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#19314 Dec 10, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
That man can become Gods.
Rev 21:7 "He that overcometh shall inherit all things..."

Rev 3:21 "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."

1 John 3:2 "...but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him..."

John 10:34 "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?"

Matthew 25:21 "...thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things.."

Romans 8:16-17 "...and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ..."

Psalms 82:6
"I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."

I think the Bible has it covered pretty well. Honestly, I don't think there is a better place out of which to teach the doctrine of our divine potential than the Bible.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#19315 Dec 10, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
That also blows out the teaching that God was once a man.
That's 3 from off the top of my head. Do you need more?
John 5:19 "...The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise."

Jesus Christ and God the Father have a lot of similarities.

If you believe in the trinity and believe that God and Jesus Christ are the same, doesn't that line of thought follow that Jesus Christ is God in the form of a man? In essence, God was a man in Jesus Christ right?

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19316 Dec 10, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
This explains the marriage situation.
http://en.fairmormon.org/Marriage/As_a_requir...
A lot of doubletalk, and speculation. They also conveniently left out this verse by Paul:

Romans 7
7 Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives? 2 For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. 3 So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man.

If people where married for eternity, then they would be committing adultery if they remarried after losing their spouse. Paul is clearly saying at death they are no longer married. Hence, the "death do us part" saying of the wedding vows.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19317 Dec 10, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
John 5:19 "...The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise."
Jesus Christ and God the Father have a lot of similarities.
If you believe in the trinity and believe that God and Jesus Christ are the same, doesn't that line of thought follow that Jesus Christ is God in the form of a man? In essence, God was a man in Jesus Christ right?
True, but Jesus was God lowering himself to become man. Not a man who exalted himself to become God. The whole tell Jesus was on earth, he was still God.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19318 Dec 10, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Rev 21:7 "He that overcometh shall inherit all things..."
Rev 3:21 "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."
That only means we will be with him in Heaven, not become a God.
1 John 3:2 "...but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him..."
Only a reference to becoming "flesh and bone". Incorruptible flesh. Just as Jesus now has a body of flesh and bone.
John 10:34 "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?"
A quote of Psalm 82, which was definely not saying they are Gods like the one most high, because in the very next verse of that Psalm it says: "But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes."
Context, you need to work on your context.
Matthew 25:21 "...thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things.."

What was the message of that parable?
29 “For to everyone who has, more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. 30 Throw out the worthless slave into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The master never stopped being the master, and the slave was still a slave.

[QUOTE]Romans 8:16-17 "...and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ..."
Again, we it is only saying we will get to be with him in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Psalms 82:6
"I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."
How can a person be like the real God if they can die? We are only like God in the what know the difference between good and evil.
I think the Bible has it covered pretty well. Honestly, I don't think there is a better place out of which to teach the doctrine of our divine potential than the Bible.
Yes, the Bible did cover this topic well when it said:
Isaiah 43:10
“You are My witnesses,” declares the LORD,“And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me.

Words mean something, and "none" definitely means "none." Take this verse into account with the fact that the Bible said that the Devil was cast out of Heaven for wanting to become a God, and the whole "Plan" is blown away.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#19320 Dec 11, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
A lot of doubletalk, and speculation. They also conveniently left out this verse by Paul:
Romans 7
7 Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives? 2 For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. 3 So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man.
If people where married for eternity, then they would be committing adultery if they remarried after losing their spouse. Paul is clearly saying at death they are no longer married. Hence, the "death do us part" saying of the wedding vows.
I disagree. In the lds church it is my understanding that one can marry someone for all eternity and if the partner dies the person left can marry some one else, but just not for eternity.

Whether Paul is talking about "the law" as in the old mosaic law or "the law" as in the new gospel which fulfilled the law would determine if this quote is relevant at all to current Christianity. He is speaking of things past because he says in verse 6 "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."

See also Romans 7 verse 4, which seems to say we can be married after the Resurrection. "Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God."

It sounds like Paul is saying that the law doesn't matter any more to us because we are "dead to the law by the body of Christ." It also sounds like Paul is saying that now that Christ has risen and fulfilled the old law, "ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead..." or in other words, "you should be married for eternity, even after you are Resurrected."

Married after the Resurrection? It looks like Paul thinks so.

Thank you for bringing that scripture to my attention.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#19321 Dec 11, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
A lot of doubletalk, and speculation. They also conveniently left out this verse by Paul:
Romans 7
7 Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives? 2 For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. 3 So then, if while her husband is living she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress though she is joined to another man.
If people where married for eternity, then they would be committing adultery if they remarried after losing their spouse. Paul is clearly saying at death they are no longer married. Hence, the "death do us part" saying of the wedding vows.
Regarding my prior post, you could argue that "him who is raised from the dead" is Christ and that we need to be figuratively married to Christ, but the statement "bring forth fruit unto God" seems to indicate that you are intended to have children with this partner. "Fruit" is used in other areas of the bible to indicate posterity or offspring. Example: "Fruit of the womb", "fruit of thy body," "fruit of thy cattle"....

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#19322 Dec 11, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
True, but Jesus was God lowering himself to become man. Not a man who exalted himself to become God. The whole tell Jesus was on earth, he was still God.
Can a God die? Jesus Christ's parents endowed him two essential traits necessary to give him the capacity to perform the atonement, or suffer for our sins. He had the ability to live under pain no normal man could survive (A trait given him from his Heavenly Father), yet he had the ability to willingly lay down his life (Mortality, a trait inherited from his mortal mother Mary).

I know that doesn't progress the discussion, but I think its a really awesome point to think about.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#19323 Dec 11, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Isaiah 43:10
“You are My witnesses,” declares the LORD,“And My servant whom I have chosen, So that you may know and believe Me And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, And there will be none after Me.
Words mean something, and "none" definitely means "none." Take this verse into account with the fact that the Bible said that the Devil was cast out of Heaven for wanting to become a God, and the whole "Plan" is blown away.
God is ALWAYS be our God, no matter what happens. There will never come a time when we rise above Him. A Father never becomes anything less than a Father to the son as he matures and enters adulthood and the Son never becomes more than a Son to that Father as he rises in wisdom and age.

The point Isaiah is getting at is illustrated in 1 Corinthians 8: 5-6 (to be considered later), that to US there is only one God. Isaiah is making it clear that we only worship one God, where as with the heathen, there are Gods and fathers and sons of Gods, all of which must be taken into consideration when worshiping.(like Zeus and Hercules maybe...I don't know I'm no expert on heathen Gods)

1 Corinthians 8:5-6 acknowledges that there are many Gods, but we only acknowledge and worship one. "For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth,(as there be gods many, and lords many,)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."

Paul acknowledges that "there be gods many, and lords many." But to us, there is only one.

“ Soon: too late to protest”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#19326 Dec 12, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
We believe that the Bible contains the word of God and Jesus Christ is our Savior. How is that Satanic?
I don’t have your original post, but as far as I remember, it was a story about Mormonism -- a fantasy about what you want, and totally ignored the reality as revealed by those who were in that cult, and escaped.
I listed a link to their stories on post 191969. but those who are too cowardly to face reality won’t ever check that out. You have the freedom to believe what you want, but others have the right to be free of oppression, lies, and abuse.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#19327 Dec 12, 2012
Protester wrote:
<quoted text>
I don’t have your original post, but as far as I remember, it was a story about Mormonism -- a fantasy about what you want, and totally ignored the reality as revealed by those who were in that cult, and escaped.
I listed a link to their stories on post 191969. but those who are too cowardly to face reality won’t ever check that out. You have the freedom to believe what you want, but others have the right to be free of oppression, lies, and abuse.
Which post #? I don't think we have that many on this thread. You might have an extra digit.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#19329 Dec 12, 2012
Check out this link for some awesome Mormon Tabernacle Choir Christmas music: http://mormon.org/christmas...

My favorite is "For unto us a child is born"

“ Soon: too late to protest”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#19330 Dec 13, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Which post #? I don't think we have that many on this thread. You might have an extra digit.
Yes, it should be 19169, although I've noticed that Topix often holds comments for review, then inserts them back, giving my posts a different number.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#19332 Dec 13, 2012
Protester wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, it should be 19169, although I've noticed that Topix often holds comments for review, then inserts them back, giving my posts a different number.
Thank you for clarifying.

Protester Quote:“Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, etc. fail that test. They don't trust God to tell the truth. They're calling God a liar, which is a big no-no. They don't trust Him, so they do good works to SAVE THEMSELVES.”

We believe in the grace of God.

Examples from the Book of Mormon:
Moroni 10:33
33 And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy, without spot.

Jacob 4:7
7 Nevertheless, the Lord God showeth us our weakness that we may know that it is by his grace, and his great condescensions unto the children of men, that we have power to do these things.

2 Nephi 25:23
“23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved…”

2 Nephi 10:24
24 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, reconcile yourselves to the will of God, and not to the will of the devil and the flesh; and remember, after ye are reconciled unto God, that it is only in and through the grace of God that ye are saved.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#19333 Dec 13, 2012
Protester wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, it should be 19169, although I've noticed that Topix often holds comments for review, then inserts them back, giving my posts a different number.
I looked at much of what you posted and it looks like there is a lot of misunderstanding. The Book of Mormon for example: of course much of the text is going to be very similar to that in the Bible. The people lived by the same gospel. One God, one gospel, and one way to salvation for everyone: through Christ. The Book of Mormon describes how the writers of the Book of Mormon took a copy of some of the old testament with them to the Americas….so of course it is going to influence their writings and they are going to quote significant passages.(see first few chapters of the Book of Mormon)

Regarding baptisms for the dead: Just because someone is baptized for the dead doesn't mean they get in to heaven. If you do a baptism for someone who is dead you are simply giving them the opportunity to accept the gospel, it doesn’t mean they will. We believe the same spirit that inhabited the body on earth exists after death. If that spirit was evil here, it will be evil there after and reject the gospel. If you start judging who would likely benefit from a baptism for the dead you start traveling down a path of taking the judgment of God into your hands. Its much simpler just to have everyone baptized and let God make the judgment call as to what they deserve in the after life.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19334 Dec 13, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Christ said that we would be rewarded according to our deeds.
Titus 3:5
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

1 Timothy 1:9
realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#19335 Dec 13, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
I disagree. In the lds church it is my understanding that one can marry someone for all eternity and if the partner dies the person left can marry some one else, but just not for eternity.
Sorry, it doesn't matter what the LDS church is teaching. Paul is clearly saying that at death, the marriage is over, otherwise, if a person remarried, they would be committing adultery.
Whether Paul is talking about "the law" as in the old mosaic law or "the law" as in the new gospel which fulfilled the law would determine if this quote is relevant at all to current Christianity. He is speaking of things past because he says in verse 6 "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."
Which has nothing to do with marriage, eternal or not. You do not see him teaching eternal marriage. In fact, you can read him teaching against marriage altogether later in order to serve the Lord better. Now if eternal marriage was so important to our lives after the resurrection, that would be a very strange thing to teach.
See also Romans 7 verse 4, which seems to say we can be married after the Resurrection. "Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God."
We are all going to be literally married to Jesus for eternally? Because the is the "him" that is talked about in that verse. That isn't even LDS teaching. He is only using a metaphor for Christ's love for us. In another verse it talks about Christ being our bridegroom. If that were literal, even the men would be married to Jesus. I hope you know you were pushing there to try an get a point.
It sounds like Paul is saying that the law doesn't matter any more to us because we are "dead to the law by the body of Christ." It also sounds like Paul is saying that now that Christ has risen and fulfilled the old law, "ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead..." or in other words, "you should be married for eternity, even after you are Resurrected."
Married after the Resurrection? It looks like Paul thinks so.
Thank you for bringing that scripture to my attention.
We are dead to the law because we are saved by the grace. You are really stretching it to claim it has anything to do with eternal marriage.

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