Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

Oct 12, 2011 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: CNN

Editor's note: Dean Obeidallah is an award-winning comedian who has appeared on TV shows such as Comedy Central's "Axis of Evil" special, ABC's "The View," CNN's "What the Week" and HLN's "The Joy Behar Show." He is executive producer of the annual New York Arab-American Comedy Festival and the Amman Stand Up Comedy Festival.

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“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

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#19221
Dec 6, 2012
 
Cary L Nickel wrote:
<quoted text>
I actually do trust Muslims...to be Muslims. And Muslims have every right to be Muslims, as long as they don't force their faith upon me in some "jihad", because if they try, I'm going to be firing from the other side of the barricade.
Did the point go over your head? Apparently so.
Just as I trust "anti-Mormons" to be "anti-Mormons".
You, however, have the jaded, angry, bitter, and contrary attitude of the average "ex-Mormon" who spend the rest of their lives trying to convince themselves that they made the right choice by leaving the Church, while attempting to take others down with them.
Misery loves company, and there is no better example of that than the average anti-LDS gathering, whether it be in person, or on the internet.
Misery cause by being Mormon. If we are "jaded, angry, bitter," it is because the LDS church made us that way. That and the fact we have a lifetime of lies and deception by your faith also contributes. You refuse to see the misery Mormon has cause many, because like the Muslims, we can expect you to act like a Mormon, when it comes to truth. To the Muslim extremists, Islam can do no wrong. To you, the Mormon church can do no wrong. Though it has many, many, times in it's history. A miserable person certainly knows the source of their misery, and who to thank. And yes, I'll will do what it takes to help others see the light of truth concerning the LDS church and hopefully help some escape, or better yet, stop them before they join and make one of the biggest mistakes of theirs lives.
It's quite a hoot to read the wildly accusatory and nonsensical writings of a bunch of people of every religious (and non-religious) stripe, from atheists, to satanists, to wiccans, to "born again" evangelicals, to people who now have really no spiritual direction at all, but who all come together as a "united" group with one purpose in mind..to bash their "former" faith. Why, they will blame Mormonism for everything from bad breath to spiritual death!
Never seen anyone blame the LDS church for bad breath. But all those people willing to come together on the subject of Mormonism is an indicator how awful and disgusting the LDS church. It sucks the soul dry, and gives nothing in return.
(Hey, maybe it's Mormons who are causing global warming with all that singing on Sunday!)
Try and get a group like that together without a common enemy. Negativity has a way of crossing all boundaries and bringing people together..but I ain't saying that's a good thing.
Yet all the while, the church continues to thrive and grow, and it's members continue to happily worship they way the choose, just as the precepts of this great nation have allowed since it's founding.
If a .02% growth is thriving to you, by all means, thrive.
So yes, I'll trust the Church history website over you, because it's put together by professional historians who put their reputations on the line every time they present their narrative to the general public.
And have been demonstrated over an over the lengths they will go like dogs to support their masters in Salt Lake City. Hugh Nibley has been shown that you can't believe one footnote he has made in his studies because he would make them up out of thin air. And you lie when you say you trust church historians because I have quoted church historians who have shown that the Book of Mormon was created by the imagination of Joseph Smith and that there is no such animal as Book of Mormon archaeology. It's a myth, pure and simple. So don't lie about that either. You are a baby fly who mother has to chew your food and spit it up before you can eat it. Willful ignorance is the only way you can stay in your faith. You demonstrate that by your fear of the truth that isn't church approved.

And yes, we are all out to get you! HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

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#19222
Dec 6, 2012
 
Cary L Nickel wrote:
<quoted text>
As have my favorite anti-Mormon gay rights activists..Haw Haw and NoMo. Who, interestingly, appear to have disappeared at nearly the same time.
Must be "Holiday Vacation Time" at the Gay Liberation Front.
No, they are busy saving gay LDS teens from the church. Hoping to prevent another death.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

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#19223
Dec 6, 2012
 
Some people are dying to get out of Mormonism.

Since: May 10

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#19224
Dec 6, 2012
 
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Did the point go over your head? Apparently so.
<quoted text>
Misery cause by being Mormon. If we are "jaded, angry, bitter," it is because the LDS church made us that way. That and the fact we have a lifetime of lies and deception by your faith also contributes. You refuse to see the misery Mormon has cause many, because like the Muslims, we can expect you to act like a Mormon, when it comes to truth. To the Muslim extremists, Islam can do no wrong. To you, the Mormon church can do no wrong. Though it has many, many, times in it's history. A miserable person certainly knows the source of their misery, and who to thank. And yes, I'll will do what it takes to help others see the light of truth concerning the LDS church and hopefully help some escape, or better yet, stop them before they join and make one of the biggest mistakes of theirs lives.
<quoted text>
Never seen anyone blame the LDS church for bad breath. But all those people willing to come together on the subject of Mormonism is an indicator how awful and disgusting the LDS church. It sucks the soul dry, and gives nothing in return.
<quoted text>
If a .02% growth is thriving to you, by all means, thrive.
<quoted text>
And have been demonstrated over an over the lengths they will go like dogs to support their masters in Salt Lake City. Hugh Nibley has been shown that you can't believe one footnote he has made in his studies because he would make them up out of thin air. And you lie when you say you trust church historians because I have quoted church historians who have shown that the Book of Mormon was created by the imagination of Joseph Smith and that there is no such animal as Book of Mormon archaeology. It's a myth, pure and simple. So don't lie about that either. You are a baby fly who mother has to chew your food and spit it up before you can eat it. Willful ignorance is the only way you can stay in your faith. You demonstrate that by your fear of the truth that isn't church approved.
And yes, we are all out to get you! HAHAHAHAHA!!!!
The Mormon church didn't "make" you anything, unless you were weak minded and weak willed to begin with, and are easily swayed by whatever blows in the wind.

Every person is their own creation. Every person has free will to choose whether they are jaded, angry, or bitter.

Most people don't allow anger or bitterness to control everything they do or say in life. Those who do need mental help.

What is certain is that the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as taught by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, is not the cause of your anger and bitterness. The Gospel of Jesus Christ, as taught by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, is pure, good, and uplifting to both body and spirit.

Whatever causes your unrest is a creation of your own mind, and resides entirely within you.

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#19226
Dec 6, 2012
 
Dana Robertson wrote:
Some people are dying to get out of Mormonism.
There you go again, looking to blame the LDS Church for the world's problems.

Your statement perfectly displays the simplistic attitude anti-Mormons take regarding serious issues that transcend race, religion, or age.

The high rate of suicide among teens is nationwide, and across all social and economic levels, and has absolutely nothing to do with any particular religion.

It would appear we've discovered another issue where your attitude is at odds with the teachings of your church:

http://web.salvationarmy.org/ihq/www_sa.nsf/2... $file/suicide%20prevention.pdf

Since: Sep 12

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#19227
Dec 6, 2012
 
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
But the first version, written in Smith's own hand, say nothing about seeing God<quoted text>
See http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith%27s_Fir...

Basically, in his introduction, he says he first received the testimony from on high, referring to the testimony of God the Father that Jesus Christ is His son or "This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!" This is consistent with later 1838 version of the History of Joseph Smith.

That sums it up.

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#19228
Dec 6, 2012
 
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem being is that no man has ever seen God. Jesus tells us that:
John 1:18
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
Is Jesus lying? Every time there is an appearance of God in the Old Testament, it has been an appearance of Jesus Christ, who represent God.
What about Stephen who saw Jesus standing on the right hand of God?

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#19229
Dec 6, 2012
 
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Two long post by you, and all I see is a testimony of Joseph Smith. I thought the church was suppose to be the "Church of Jesus Christ?" I can tell you that if those people who you claimed to have had new revelations had the whole story and truth of Joseph Smith, they would think you're nuts. They would certainly reject any claims of his prophethood. I bare you my testimony of that? We haven't heard one word of what Jesus done for you. Has he done anything for you?
<quoted text>
That would be nice, exept Christ's church has never left, as he promised:
Matthew 16:18
I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
You are calling Jesus a liar when you say his church had to be restored. It has never left. My Jesus doesn't lie, and he doesn't make mistakes.
<quoted text>
After being a member of the LDS church for 33 years, one of the greatest joys in my life was learning that I could have had Christ all along and never even have heard of Joseph Smith to have him.
You don't need Joseph when you have Jesus. Stop putting your faith in the arm of the flesh.
If Christ's church never left the earth, was it Christ's church that sold salvation for money with indulgences, or proclaims that baptism is necessary for salvation or that is not necessary for salvation, or is it Christ's church the one that pays ministers to teach a gospel that was freely given? Which church is Christ's church? They can not all be 100% right. They can not all represent the will of God.

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#19230
Dec 6, 2012
 
Dana Robertson wrote:
It looks like Sam I am, who eats Joseph Smith's green eggs, and ham, has left the building.
Sam I am who loves green eggs and ham
Likes to help people to understand
That Mormonism isn't so far-fetched as it seems
and Mormons want show how Christ beams
In these latter days he still speaks
He doesn't just give us little peaks
He wants to show us his whole plan
Because Christ surely wants us to understand
The more we know, the more we'll do
The gospel isn't just for you
If you really do believe
You'll want to share it for all to see.

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#19231
Dec 6, 2012
 
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Two long post by you, and all I see is a testimony of Joseph Smith. I thought the church was suppose to be the "Church of Jesus Christ?" I can tell you that if those people who you claimed to have had new revelations had the whole story and truth of Joseph Smith, they would think you're nuts. They would certainly reject any claims of his prophethood. I bare you my testimony of that? We haven't heard one word of what Jesus done for you. Has he done anything for you?
<quoted text>
That would be nice, exept Christ's church has never left, as he promised:
Matthew 16:18
I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
You are calling Jesus a liar when you say his church had to be restored. It has never left. My Jesus doesn't lie, and he doesn't make mistakes.
<quoted text>
After being a member of the LDS church for 33 years, one of the greatest joys in my life was learning that I could have had Christ all along and never even have heard of Joseph Smith to have him.
You don't need Joseph when you have Jesus. Stop putting your faith in the arm of the flesh.
Joseph Smith is a revealor and mouth peace for Christ. That is why he is significant. Giving us a prophet in our time is what Christ has done for me. A prophet is a manifestation of God's love, it shows that he cares.

Yes, God saves, we are saved by His grace and His love. I don't trust "in the arm of my flesh." I know that I can't save myself. There is absolutely nothing I can do by myself to get myself into Heaven. There is nothing any stand-alone organization can do to get me into heaven. Only God can give eternal life.

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#19233
Dec 6, 2012
 
Dana Robertson wrote:
Some people are dying to get out of Mormonism.
And being stalked and followed when they do.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

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#19234
Dec 6, 2012
 
Mormonism taking a step closer to having another "revelation" concerning gays. Soon, it will be 1978, all over again. http://www.abc4.com/content/news/top_stories/...

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

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#19235
Dec 6, 2012
 
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
See http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith%27s_Fir...
Basically, in his introduction, he says he first received the testimony from on high, referring to the testimony of God the Father that Jesus Christ is His son or "This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!" This is consistent with later 1838 version of the History of Joseph Smith.
That sums it up.
Not hardly. Perhaps one of the most damaging evidences that Joseph Smith did not see the Father and the Son in 1820, to those who believe in the restoration of the Priesthood, is the fact that in the year 1832 Joseph Smith claimed to have a revelation which stated that a man could not see God without the Priesthood. This revelation is published as Section 84 of the Doctrine and Covenants. In verses 21-22 we read:

"And without the ordinances thereof, and the authority of the priesthood, the power of godliness is not manifest unto men in the flesh;

"For without this no man can see the face of God, even the Father, and live."

Now, it is claimed that "The Father and the Son appeared to the Prophet Joseph Smith before the Church was organized and the priesthood restored to the earth" (Doctrines of Salvation, by Joseph Fielding Smith, vol. 1, p. 4).

The revelation given in 1832 suggests that Joseph Smith's story of the first vision was made up years after it was supposed to have occurred. Smith did not even claim to have the Priesthood in 1820, and the Doctrine and Covenants clearly says that without the Priesthood no man can see God and live.

James B. Allen, who now serves as assistant church historian, frankly admitted that the story of the first vision "was not given general circulation in the 1830's." (Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Autumn 1966, p. 33). Dr. Allen makes some startling concessions in this article. He admits, for instance, that "none of the available contemporary writings about Joseph Smith in the 1830's, none of the publications of the Church in that decade, and no contemporary journal or correspondence yet discovered mentions the story of the first vision...." Dr. Allen goes on to state that in the 1830's "the general membership of the Church knew little, if anything, about it."

In the past Mormon apologists have argued that Joseph Smith's first vision was well known from the first time it was announced in 1820. It is refreshing to read James B. Allen's attempt to set the record straight. We were planning to extract a lengthy quotation from Dr. Allen's article, but he refused to give us permission. Those who are interested, however, can read his entire article in Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Autumn 1966, pages 29-45.

Here is what Smith wrote in that first account:
"... the Lord heard my cry in the wilderness and while in the attitude of calling upon the Lord in the 16th year of my age a piller [sic] of light above the brightness of the sun at noon day
come down from above and rested upon me and I was filled with the spirit of god and the Lord opened the heavens upon me and I saw the Lord and he spake unto me saying Joseph my son thy sins are forgiven thee, go [sic] thy way walk in my statutes and keep my commandments behold I am the Lord of glory I was crucifyed [sic] for the world that all those who believe on my name may have Eternal life behold the world lieth in sin at this time and none doeth good no not one they have turned asside [sic] from the gospel and keep not my commandments they draw near to me with their lips while their hearts are far from me and mine anger is kindling against the inhabitants of the earth to visit them according to this ungodliness and to bring to pass that which hath been spoken by the mouth of the prophets and Apostles behold and lo I come quickly as it was w[r]itten of me in the cloud clothed in the glory of my Father...."

The bad spelling was Smith's. Where do you see mention of him seeing God, the Father?

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

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#19236
Dec 6, 2012
 
Didn't have room for the source, here it is: http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/changech6.htm

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

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#19237
Dec 6, 2012
 
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
If Christ's church never left the earth, was it Christ's church that sold salvation for money with indulgences,
I'll try to address each question, part by part. But what you are not getting is that even in the New Testament it is taught that the church is composted of it's members, not made an organization. "For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.(Matt 18v20)

This is farther explained in

4 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6 There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. 7 But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills.

12 For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.
1 Corinthians 12:
14 For the body is not one member, but many. 15 If the foot says,“Because I am not a hand, I am not a part of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body. 16 And if the ear says,“Because I am not an eye, I am not a part of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the hearing be? If the whole were hearing, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the body, just as He desired. 19 If they were all one member, where would the body be? 20 But now there are many members, but one body. 21 And the eye cannot say to the hand,“I have no need of you”; or again the head to the feet,“I have no need of you.” 22 On the contrary, it is much truer that the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary; 23 and those members of the body which we deem less honorable, on these we bestow more abundant honor, and our less presentable members become much more presentable, 24 whereas our more presentable members have no need of it. But God has so composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that member which lacked, 25 so that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.

This is speaking of many different churches, all being part of the body of Christ. Each with different gifts. The book of Revelations talks about the different churches and what they are each lacking.

Now concerning your question about "church that sold salvation for money with indulgences. It had members who were saved. Not because of the church when it was teaching wrong doctrine, because it had preserved what Christ had taught was necessary for salvation. Many heard that message, accepted it and was saved by it. A church cannot save you. Membership in a church cannot save you.

To be continued...

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

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#19238
Dec 6, 2012
 
or proclaims that baptism is necessary for salvation or that is not necessary for salvation,
What does the Bible say? The required baptism for salvation is the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Water baptism is never said to be required for your salvation. And we have proof of someone who was saved without water baptism in the Bible. It was the thief on the cross. Because he believed in Jesus Christ, Christ told him that he would be with him in Paradise that day. No stipulations were put on it. He didn't tell him that if he could get off the cross and go get baptist, he would be with him in Paradise that day. And he didn't tell him that after someone did his work for the dead, he would be in Paradise with him. He said he was going to be with him THAT day. Paradise is the place where the righteous dead wait for the resurrection. They are the saved.
or is it Christ's church the one that pays ministers to teach a gospel that was freely given?
According to the Bible, yes. Paul taught:“ The laborer is worthy of his wages.” Jesus got paid for delivering his messages. Where do you think he got the money to survive and eat? Donations from the people he was preaching too. And if getting money is a sin for teaching God's word, why are the Apostles and Prophet of the LDS church receiving money for being such?
Which church is Christ's church? They can not all be 100% right. They can not all represent the will of God.
Every church that teaches salvation through the grace of Jesus Christ is 100% correct. They differ on matters that have nothing to do with salvation. Your putting your eyes on man made organizations, not Jesus Christ. Churches don't save, only Christ does.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

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#19239
Dec 6, 2012
 
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
What about Stephen who saw Jesus standing on the right hand of God?
There are 3 personages, one being. Stephen saw Jesus standing to the right of the Father's glory. He doesn't say that glory was man shaped.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

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#19240
Dec 6, 2012
 
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Joseph Smith is a revealor and mouth peace for Christ. That is why he is significant. Giving us a prophet in our time is what Christ has done for me. A prophet is a manifestation of God's love, it shows that he cares.
Yes, God saves, we are saved by His grace and His love. I don't trust "in the arm of my flesh." I know that I can't save myself. There is absolutely nothing I can do by myself to get myself into Heaven. There is nothing any stand-alone organization can do to get me into heaven. Only God can give eternal life.
So you don't believe in temple work for the dead? Because that is what you are doing when you do that. You are trying to do something to earn another persons salvation. You are denying the grace of Jesus Christ.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

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#19241
Dec 7, 2012
 
Cary L Nickel wrote:
<quoted text>
The Mormon church didn't "make" you anything, unless you were weak minded and weak willed to begin with, and are easily swayed by whatever blows in the wind.
That would be called a child, and yes, that is what Mormonism does to them. The brainwashed parents make sure of that.
Every person is their own creation.
You raised yourself? Amazing.
Every person has free will to choose whether they are jaded, angry, or bitter.
People aren't born "jaded, angry, or bitter." They are products of the influences forced upon them. That is elementary. You really need to learn more about cause and effect. No one is raised in a vacuum.

Most people don't allow anger or bitterness to control everything they do or say in life.
And some use it as motivation to do good in their life. Like I do when I help others see the truth concerning the evil of Mormonism. Many appreciate my efforts. Have told me so after they have escape. And I do use escape because Mormonism is a prison of the mind and soul. The fact you fear non LDS sources demonstrates yours.
Those who do need mental help.
Yes, some who have been raised in Mormonism do need mental help and support after discovering the truth and leaving. It is one of the things that make your church evil.
What is certain is that the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as taught by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, is not the cause of your anger and bitterness.
Sure it is. That because the Gospel of Jesus Christ as taught by the LDS church has nothing to do with the rel Gospel of Jesus Christ. That is plain as blak and white when reading the KVJ of the Bible, the one you claim is divine, yet refuse to believe. Just like you believe in Mormonism, but refuse to follow it. Sounds like you need mental help.
The Gospel of Jesus Christ, as taught by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, is pure, good, and uplifting to both body and spirit.
The great lie of Mormonism. It is the road straight to hell.
Whatever causes your unrest is a creation of your own mind, and resides entirely within you.
Yes, you have demonstrated many times your inability to see truth and except responsibility. You can't except even the responsibility to follow the faith you claim is so true. It's so true you can't follow it. LOL!!! Hell, I'm convinced.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

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#19242
Dec 7, 2012
 
Cary L Nickel wrote:
<quoted text>
There you go again, looking to blame the LDS Church for the world's problems.
I certainly blame it for it's share. I like to blame the guilty. I'm funny like that.
Your statement perfectly displays the simplistic attitude anti-Mormons take regarding serious issues that transcend race, religion, or age.
Serious issues that Mormonism fails on all fronts. Quit being a racist, bigoted, homophobic church, and people will stop treating you like one. Do that or at least be honest in your hatred.
The high rate of suicide among teens is nationwide, and across all social and economic levels, and has absolutely nothing to do with any particular religion.
No disagreement. The Mormon church isn't alone in it's ignorance and hatred. But it is responsible for what it does to it's children. Plain and simple. And this is a Mormon forum. Just because there are other churches as ignorant on the subject as Mormonism, doesn't give Mormonism a free pass.
It would appear we've discovered another issue where your attitude is at odds with the teachings of your church:
http://web.salvationarmy.org/ihq/www_sa.nsf/2... $file/suicide%20prevention.pdf
Good, don't join it. I don't care.

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