Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

There are 32007 comments on the CNN story from Oct 12, 2011, titled Who says Mormons aren't Christians?. In it, CNN reports that:

Editor's note: Dean Obeidallah is an award-winning comedian who has appeared on TV shows such as Comedy Central's "Axis of Evil" special, ABC's "The View," CNN's "What the Week" and HLN's "The Joy Behar Show." He is executive producer of the annual New York Arab-American Comedy Festival and the Amman Stand Up Comedy Festival.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CNN.

Since: Sep 12

Hollister, MO

#28937 Nov 7, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>Mormonism is an occult religion. So he was an occultists before he studied Tarot cards. He stilled considered himself LDS at the time. Just because it isn't a form of Mormonism you don't approve of means jack.LOL!!!

He gave the LDS church 2 years of his life, he had earned the right to go to BYU.
Just curious... why does serving a mission automatically earn him the right to go to BYU? Maybe I'm not aware of something?

Since: Sep 12

Hollister, MO

#28938 Nov 7, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>He had good moral qualities. His problem for BYU was that he actually thought for himself instead of just being another Morgbot.
So, wait... serving a mission AND having good morals automatically earns one the "right" to attend BYU?

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#28939 Nov 7, 2013
Mormons starting to think cutting off heads is doing the Lords work. They are becoming more and more Muslim everyday.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/...

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#28940 Nov 7, 2013
Livinginthelandofcrazy wrote:
<quoted text>
So, wait... serving a mission AND having good morals automatically earns one the "right" to attend BYU?
Read you statement again. Answer the question yourself.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#28941 Nov 7, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
lol...thinking for himself broke no code and you know it. The kid like you when you were young was a Mormon by that word only. You hated your religion and he detested/disagreed certain parts of it while liking/admiring other parts of it.
He had stopped being a TBM before his mission when he was dabbling in the occult to see if he could contact spirits and or be influenced by them when reading the cards for himself or others. Something he didn't tell his bishop. If he had, he would never have went on a mission till he stopped playing with the occult. He paused he thirst for the occult to do a mission and began it again when off his mission.
I was wrong about one thing. He didn't begin his BYU stint in 2012. He began it a year prior in 2009 ahead of when his mission began in Aug 2010. He began his sophomore year at BYU in Aug 2012.
He said he lied to go to BYU as I stated. He lied about being a TBRMM. He was a Mormon as he saw fit to be classified as one and that justified his lying to go to BYU as a Mormon which he wasn't but by word. Get it?
If thinking for yourself leads you out of Mormonism, than yes, thinking for yourself at BYU is breaking the honor code.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#28942 Nov 7, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you recanting what you previously stated? You claimed the morals in the BYU code of honor policy was "...a jackass policy...". You claimed it was a despicable or abhorant code to expect people to live by who previously to being a student at BYU, had most of those morals in their character already. Now you state those morals are good qualities? Make up your mind pleaseee!
I'm sorry you can't follow along. Do you want me to use smaller words? Having trouble comprehending today? Did you take your meds?

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#28943 Nov 7, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
That was such a pathetically ignorant stupid childish thing to state. Your posts of lately have been intelligent, thought out posts and now you go to resorting to that old childish mentality? Please reassure me it was just a stupid slip of the thought process?
I'm only reflecting your posts. This is how you defend Mormonism.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#28944 Nov 7, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Excellently said..."He stilled considered himself LDS at the time." You consider yourself a loving giving caring Christian while stating you have no qualms about wanting to murder a man who lived in the 1800s. Not a lot of difference between how you two consider what is right when it obviously isn't.
You have more problems with me being willing to kill a dead man, than you are of that man being an actual murder in his life. As well as being a child molesting sexual pervert. Just what do you consider yourself? It certainly wouldn't be logical.
Curtis Penfold

Provo, UT

#28946 Nov 7, 2013
A friend suggested I check out this thread. I feel that I'm being strongly misrepresented here.

I was a very faithful member. Throughout high school, I'd give out books of Mormon to all my friends. Even my senior year of high school when I wrote that poem about tolerance, I was still a strong supporter of Prop 8 and still a strong believer in Mormonism as I understood it.

Ever since I was very young, I've always had a deep Nibley like interest in other religions. I started studying Tarot as a symbolic form. I was always open about my interest in Tarot symbolism with everybody, but I didn't read Tarot before my mission.

My freshman year of BYU, I was excited to be around all these other Mormons. Something I found, though, was that not all Mormons think alike. And it blew my mind. I met Mormons that were against Prop 8. "How can you be Mormon and disagree with the prophets?" I asked. I was introduced to Hugh B. Brown and all these liberal Mormon ideas. After thoroughly studying the subject, I decided that I was against the LDS Church's stance on homosexuality. But I still felt like I was a Mormon.

My bishop and stake president knew both about my interest in Tarot and in my stance on homosexuality. But they still let me go. In the MTC, I'd here people talk about how all these other religions were just false and terrible. By this point in my life, I didn't see much of a difference between Mormonism and other faiths. I viewed them as different paths to the same destination. Hearing this tribalistic rhetoric concerning other faiths made me strongly consider leaving the MTC and the LDS Church, thinking perhaps it wasn't for me. I decided to go anyway, because I did feel that the LDS Church did have positive things to offer the world.

I served my mission in Chile, Rancagua. I had a very happy and successful mission. I was considered a hard working and effective missionary. I felt good changing lives. I felt strongly connected to the divine. I really did love my mission. During my mission, I was open about my opinions regarding homosexuality, and although it did cause an occasional discussion with a companion or two, it usually wasn't much of a problem.

When I got back from my mission, I immediately got back into interfaith dialogue. I remember in one group, an ex-Mormon told me that if I didn't say anything about heterosexist practices done by the LDS Church, I was showing my silent approval of them. It was only a few days after I got home from my mission, and I was still feeling a strong need to live a righteous life no matter the consequences. I decided to get involved in gay rights so I could be clean from the blood and sins of my generation, blood of gays who've committed suicide, the sin of pushing them out of our culture and pressuring them not to be with the people they love.

I also returned back to studying the symbolism of the Tarot. I viewed Tarot as a possible way to brainstorm through things (not to summon spirits), so I decided why not get a deck and try reading it. And I did.
I also became more willing to experiment different methods to have spiritual experiences. Hindu chanting, praying to Heavenly Mother--I saw no harm in it and did not fear these things.

As I had interesting experiences, and as I studied philosophy at BYU, I started realizing that I was becoming agnostic, that I didn't trust the truth claims I was making as much as I claimed to. A few months later and I realized I didn't believe there was anything supernatural anymore. I didn't believe that there was anything out there that cared about our existence. I viewed spiritual experiences I was having both inside and outside the LDS Church as merely psychological. I was an atheist.

(To be continued in other comment).
Curtis Penfold

Provo, UT

#28947 Nov 7, 2013
But I wanted to stay Mormon. A secular Mormon? Was that a thing?

I started hanging out with other atheists attending BYU. That's when I learned that some atheists have been kicked out of BYU, out of their work, and out of their housing. All just for not believing anymore. I got nervous. So, for the past few months, I started hiding. I started not being completely honest and open about who I am and what I believe. This made me very uncomfortable, because my whole life, I've been very open, and openness has always been very important to me.

At some point, I realized I wasn't really welcome in the LDS Church. If I was open about my unbelief, they wouldn't let me participate in priesthood ordinances, participate in the temple ritual, or participate in a variety of callings. I decided this past summer that I didn't want to be part of an organization that wouldn't allow me to be a full participant just for thinking differently than others.

But should I stay in BYU? It was so hard. I loved my program. I loved my job. I loved my girlfriend and my friends here. I honestly loved BYU. I didn't have good grades, so it made me wonder if I even could transfer. I decided to maybe go at it for another year, raise my grades, and transfer. But as the semester wore on, the weight of hiding grew and grew.

And then I got called into my bishop's office. He was a really nice guy, but he was concerned about my affiliation with the Occult. Since my relationship with other religions (including the Occult) was similar to my relationship with art or theatre or poetry, I was surprised this was an issue. He told me I might have to get disfellowshipped. Getting disfellowshipped at BYU means that you get kicked out of school, work, and housing.
A little shocked that this was a thing, I decided I would leave BYU at the end of the semester. The thought was a relief to be honest.

But when I spoke with my stake president, he was a total jerk to me. He didn't care about who I was or why I did what I did. He just wanted to tear me down and prove a point to me. He said he'd disfellowship me if I didn't repent of believing and writing and doing things that I didn't think were wrong. Most of my friends in this situation would honestly fake a repentance, but I emotionally couldn't handle it. So I decided I would resign from the LDS Church, leave BYU, and leave my work. After doing so, I received an eviction notice on my door to vacate my home for leaving the LDS Church.

----------

Regardless if you think I'm a terrible person or not, the fact is, we have non-Mormons who go to BYU. Why can't ex-Mormons?

I love parts of BYU. But I hate how I've been treated like I have some sort of disease. Being an atheist or being an occultist is NOT a good reason to kick somebody out of school, fire them from their job, and evict them from their home (recognizing that my apartment doesn't just have BYU students living there). It's so manipulative and over-controlling that if you leave the LDS Church, that's what BYU does to you. I have a lot of friends still stuck at BYU. They started out believers like me. But then their beliefs changed. Why does BYU treat us like we have some kind of disease?
Curtis Penfold

Provo, UT

#28948 Nov 7, 2013
Oh shoot, half my comment disappeared!

I was just saying that I was a strong believer who studied Tarot symbolism (although I didn't read Tarot) before my mission. I didn't start thinking that Prop 8 was a bad idea and disagree with the LDS Church's stance on homosexuality until I got to BYU. And I was open about my stance on homosexuality (and on Tarot for that matter) to my bishop and stake president who let me go on a mission. Served a great mission. Loved it. Helped a lot of people. Was considered a hard working and effective missionary. Got involved in gay rights once I got back from my mission in order to be clean from the blood and sins of my generation. Became more open to different forms of spiritual practices to experience the divine in different ways.(Prayed to Heavenly Mother, did Hindu chanting, started reading Tarot as a form of brainstorming, etc).

After studying philosophy at BYU, became agnostic. Later atheist. Stopped believing in any form of supernatural anything.
Curtis Penfold

Provo, UT

#28949 Nov 7, 2013
Oh shucks. The comment appeared again. Sorry about that. Just repeated things unnecessarily.

Since: Sep 12

Hollister, MO

#28950 Nov 7, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>Read you statement again. Answer the question yourself.
Dana, no need to get snippy. I'm trying to understand your line of thinking here. Personally, I don't think it does. But, as I said, maybe I'm missing something.

Since: Sep 12

Hollister, MO

#28951 Nov 7, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>Read you statement again. Answer the question yourself.
Here, I'll answer it for you...

6. Missions
Do returned missionaries automatically qualify for a scholarship?
Returned missionaries do not automatically qualify for a scholarship. They must qualify like everyone else.

Not even snippy about it. Just a simple copy and paste.

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#28952 Nov 7, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
He had good moral qualities. His problem for BYU was that he actually thought for himself instead of just being another Morgbot.
Do you know him personally? How do you know what kind of morals he has?

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#28953 Nov 7, 2013
Curtis Penfold wrote:
Oh shucks. The comment appeared again. Sorry about that. Just repeated things unnecessarily.
You were not telling the truth then... and asked the SP to let you continue hiding it to steal your discounts.

How can we trust what your justifications are now?

You know the Moral Code of BYU... and you lied. The 10 commandments tell us not to lie or steal. You did both, if you didn't feel like you belonged it is because you were not doing what was right. You were breaking the commandments.

You could have un-enrolled and re-enrolled next semester as a non-Mormon without the discounts. However, you chose to lie and steal instead.

That is not duty. There is no honor in that. You can go to any college you want that doesn't have a moral code, but you chose not to so you could get the discounts.

It's sad really.

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#28954 Nov 7, 2013
I cannot believe you did not know there would be consequences. That is what the Gospel teaches through and through.

What it all comes down to is you lost your faith, you blogged on the Internet things you shouldn't have without permission from the Church.

If you had these thoughts and concerns you should have went to your Bishop and talked to him about it instead of blogging it and thinking you wouldn't be found out.
We Know He Lies

Olivehurst, CA

#28955 Nov 7, 2013
If it's queer

It'll molest.

In your non Saint civilization, of your women, ONE in TWO will be raped or molested in her life.

By NINETY FIVE to SEVEN PERCENT of ALL MEN.

----

On the other among your MEN, one in THREE have a chance of being raped, or molested in
his life.

THIS done in vast majority by T.W.O. to F.I.V.E. PERCENT of MEN.

Queers.

They're the molesters of the universe.

Men are revealed to be homosexually molesting H.U.N.D.R.E.D.S. of boys in a lifetime.

They're evil as snakes.

When the devil wanted to make men hate God,

He sent a QUEER
claiming he represented God.
REFUSING to be HETEROSEXUAL
REFUSING to be MARRIED

REFUSING to BE as GOD COMMANDS THEM, or ELSE.

Or else what?

Or else they can try to molest their way past God and the people who stand with Him.

Pfft.

See that's gonna be a problem cause the people they molested
are going to get their turn to set their system straight.

Who's gonna vote for a bunch of simpering treacherous molesting queers,

except weirdos who like child molesters?

Since: Sep 12

Hollister, MO

#28956 Nov 7, 2013
Upon further research, I found the following:

http://saas.byu.edu/tools/b4byu/sites/b4/...

There is no mention of serving a two year mission earning you the "right" to attend BYU. They have to apply and be accepted just as everyone else. Furthermore, they are held to the same standards as everyone else. Member and non-member alike.
We Know He Lies

Olivehurst, CA

#28957 Nov 7, 2013
We certainly know you lie then act like being extra careful about grammar's important after you tried to infest-molest your way in with the guys who can't handle being grown up.

Didn't the Lord tell you not to be ashamed at the way He created all these things? Of course He did, but you thought you had better set the Lord straight.

No, what's going to happen, is time's gonna keep ticking for another several hundred years while you try to molest your way out of your befuddlement with your dope-addled eternal adolescent pleasure seeker pedophile coterie of

what did I say?

Molesters.

Nowadays even your women are becoming molesters so I guess the river of filth you were told about, you can't see that either.

Really what you see is judgemental people you don't understand.

That's the price of being stupid in the evolution of spirits.
You get to go hang with molesters.

They DID TELL you at Church, this IS the EVOLUTION of SPIRITS; and that it's COMPETITION which DRIVES all this energy, and you'll COMPETE
or you'll compete on the OTHER team...

and that CHANGING the COMMANDMENTS in JUDGEMENT on MANKIND is COMPETING on the team that gets to get it's Gollum on...

Yeah.

So you enjoy that long lazy raft ride down the river of filth.

It's going to consume your every hope and dream until it is consumed.

Hang with the molesters in the day of molesting

Hang with them in the day of judgement.

No exceptions granted. Gollumized. Guaranteed.

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