Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

There are 32093 comments on the CNN story from Oct 12, 2011, titled Who says Mormons aren't Christians?. In it, CNN reports that:

Editor's note: Dean Obeidallah is an award-winning comedian who has appeared on TV shows such as Comedy Central's "Axis of Evil" special, ABC's "The View," CNN's "What the Week" and HLN's "The Joy Behar Show." He is executive producer of the annual New York Arab-American Comedy Festival and the Amman Stand Up Comedy Festival.

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“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#25784 May 18, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Go back and reread it if you want. I'm not repeating myself.
I'll do one better, I'll repaste your post. In it there is not a single solitary reference of Smith excommunicating an individual for breaking the WoW, NOT ONE PERSON IS REFERENCED. And in a lie you have lied a few times about you keep stating in the below information Smith excommunicated a person for breaking the WoW and that info isn't there, so what now oh honest and truthful one? Care to admit you misread the info or are you ready to continue your lie?
PS...five charges were levied at Whitmer, not a single charge of breaking the WoW as you insinuated in a lie.

Dana Robertson wrote:
It was commandment enough that he excomunicated people for breaking it:
Hypocrisy
Orson Pratt once quipped: "I do not wonder that the world say that the Latter-day Saints do not believe their own revelations. Why? Because we do not practice them" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 17, p. 104).
We have shown that Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon church, did not keep the Word of Wisdom, yet, according to Joseph Fielding Smith, the Prophet Joseph Smith taught that a member of the church could not hold an office unless he observed it: "... Joseph Smith, who presided, gave his decision as follows:'No official member in this Church is worthy to hold an office after having the word of wisdom properly taught him; and he, the official member, neglecting to comply with or obey it.' This decision was confirmed by unanimous vote" (Essentials in Church History, p. 169).
It is certainly perplexing that Joseph Smith could break the Word of Wisdom and yet retain his position as president of the church. The thing that makes this especially strange is that when a member of the church did not observe the Word of Wisdom, this was sometimes used against him if he was tried for his fellowship. Leonard J. Arrington stated: "Moreover, when a council at Far West tried a high church official (David Whitmer) for his fellowship, the first of the five charges against him was that he did not observe the Word of Wisdom" (Brigham Young University Studies, Winter 1959, p. 40). As we have already shown, when Almon W. Babbitt was charged with not observing the Word of Wisdom, his only defense was that he "had taken the liberty to break the Word of Wisdom, from the example of President Joseph Smith, Jun., and others."
http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/changech18.ht ...

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#25785 May 18, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Being a intentional idiot isn't going to make you right.
lol...and being one makes you one :)

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#25786 May 19, 2013
What Happened to the Office of
LDS Church Patriarch?
On April 6, 2013 the Salt Lake Tribune announced
the death of Eldred G. Smith, at the age of 106, the longest-serving LDS General Authority and last to hold the position of Church Patriarch. He was also the great-great-grandson of Joseph Smith’s brother Hyrum. Originally the office was to be passed down through the Smith lineage, but the LDS Church dropped the position in 1979, when Eldred G. Smith was retired.1 The article brought attention to the often ignored problem of the demise of a church priesthood office supposedly
established by revelation.2

Joseph Smith claimed through revelation to re-
establish the ancient order of “Patriarch,” patterned after the father’s blessings given in the Bible (see Gen.27 and Gen. 49). Unlike the Old Testament blessings given by a father on his deathbed to his sons, today the LDS blessings are given by non-relatives to various members
of the church as a sort of road map for their lives and declares their lineage through one of the tribes of Israel.

Mormonism claims that the designation “Patriarch”
is the same as “Evangelist.” LDS Apostle Bruce R.
McConkie wrote:

"Having lost the true knowledge of the priesthood and its offices, and knowing nothing of patriarch blessings as a necessary part of church administration , the false traditions of the sectarian world have applied the designation
evangelist to traveling preachers, missionaries, and revivalists. The sectarian theory is
that evangelists travel to spread the gospel3."

However, there is absolutely nothing in the New
Testament about the need of Patriarchs in the church. Also, there is nothing in the Bible to indicate that an evangelist was ever known as a Patriarch. The word “evangelist” comes from the Greek word “evangel” which means “the good news.” Thus an evangelist is one who proclaims “the
good news.” Paul wrote to Timothy “Preach the word; ... do the work of an evangelist.”(2
Timothy4:2, 5)

Smith originally ordained his father to the office of Church Patriarch, who was later succeeded by Hyrum Smith, Joseph’s older brother. The Doctrine and Covenants , sec.124:91-92, states:“let my servant William be appointed, ordained, and anointed, as counselor unto my servant Joseph, in the room of my servant Hyrum, that my servant
Hyrum may take the office of Priesthood and Patriarch, which was appointed unto him by his father, by blessing and also by right; That
from henceforth he shall hold the keys of the patriarchal blessings upon the heads of all my people,..."

Prior to 1979 this office was part of the LDS Church General Authorities and held by direct descendants of Smith. The Encyclopedia of Mormonism, vol. 3, under PATRIARCH, explains:

Before 1979, Patriarch to the Church was
a Church officer whose chief duty was to confer
patriarchal blessings on Church members who
generally did not have the service of stake Patriarchs readily available to them. The Prophet Joseph Smith explained that an “evangelist”
(as in Ephesians 4:11) is a “patriarch”(TPJS, p.
151); that is, he confers the blessings of a patriarch upon members of the Church. Patriarchs are currently ordained in individual stakes of
the Church, but for many years there was a patriarch to the entire Church. He was considered
one of the General Authorities.

To be continued...

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#25787 May 19, 2013
Today the LDS Church no longer has the office of
Patriarch as part of the General Authorities. Currently one man in each stake, or diocese, of the church is set apart as the local Patriarch. But this is a complete reversal of the original office. Since this top leadership position was claimed to be established by revelation one is left to wonder why it was removed. Evidently the LDS Church leaders were concerned about continuing an office that required one to be a Smith descendant. Again Mormons are faced with the problem of current policy overriding past revelation. If it required a revelation to end the ban on blacks holding the LDS priesthood, why wouldn’t it require a revelation to nullify the office of Church Patriarch which was established by revelation?(For more information on this, read
Lost Legacy: The Mormon Office of Presiding Patriarch, by Irene Bates and E. Gary Smith, University of Illinois Press.)

http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/120saltlakeci...

Mormonism, still just making it up as they go along.

Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

#25788 May 19, 2013
So, all you brainwashed/dead Mormons who "love everyone" are once again supporting HATE by remaining in your bigot cult. Those lizards just cannot keep their mouths shut, can they?..must be the holier-than-thou/hoodwinked mindset, they think the word is full if sheep.

http://www.lgbtqnation.com/2013/05/mormon-chu...

Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

#25789 May 19, 2013
World is full of sheep...funny how they say one thing and DO the exact OPPOSITE, isn't it?

“The Pleasure is all MINE”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#25790 May 19, 2013
"If you were not __________fill in the blank) then you have no right to speak against the LDS church, you don't understand the true teachings of LDS"

RIGHT?
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Osirica, what is your religious background and experience with the LDS church?

“The Pleasure is all MINE”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#25791 May 19, 2013
OWTH is only used in KJV to translate as a mark in THAT passage.

NO

WHERE

ELSE
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
The Hebrew word was owth. And owth has many meanings including a mark.
I said nothing of it being a 50/50 thing. That's some more of your racist slant thinking. I said I couldn't take a position because the Bible doesn't say what the mark/sign was that God set on Cain.
Consider it this way. If I take a position on something where no evidence exists, how will I prove my position rationally? I won't. Bereft of evidence an opinion remains an opinion.

“The Pleasure is all MINE”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#25792 May 19, 2013
'OVER AND OVER'

Hey here's a thought.

Go to the first/earliest translation!

Skip the middlemen!
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
That's the difference between you and I. I understand what the word 'translation' means and it implications when something is translated over and over from one language to another and you don't.

“The Pleasure is all MINE”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#25793 May 19, 2013
But you HAVE

youve tried and tried.

You've tried to "maybe" go from an oath to a mark to the entire body got changed to black.

Why not go to flat nose and curly hair too?

oh wait, ALREADY DONE in LDS

Brigham Young second President and Prophet:

You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.... Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which was the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another cursed is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the "servants of servants;" and they will be until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree (Journal of Discourses, 7:290; emphasis added)

MAYBE HE WAS RIGHT .....HUH????

BECAUSE AFTER ALL HOW CAN YOU DISPROVE ANY OF THIS?
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
I never said it was an indicator of the changing of a persons skin colour.
When are you going to stop lying about what I didn't say? Some more of your patheticness...

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#25794 May 19, 2013
osirica wrote:
But you HAVE
youve tried and tried.
You've tried to "maybe" go from an oath to a mark to the entire body got changed to black.
Why not go to flat nose and curly hair too?
oh wait, ALREADY DONE in LDS
Brigham Young second President and Prophet:
You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.... Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which was the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another cursed is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the "servants of servants;" and they will be until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree (Journal of Discourses, 7:290; emphasis added)
MAYBE HE WAS RIGHT .....HUH????
BECAUSE AFTER ALL HOW CAN YOU DISPROVE ANY OF THIS?
<quoted text>
Aren't you amazed how hard he tries to NOT prove something?

sportxmouse

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#25795 May 19, 2013
I see the 3 stooges are relying on each other for religious guidance.

Good luck with that!
Father overtime

United States

#25797 May 20, 2013
I thought the 3 stooges were Jewish. Mormons are Christian. Because Dana says they are not and Osirica is a racist. Good enough for me.

“The Pleasure is all MINE”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#25800 May 20, 2013
Muslims are more Christian than Mormons.

1. Muslims believe that only one god has ever existed.
2. Muslims believe that god is and has always been eternal.
3. Muslims believe that no man can become a god...

Sounds like CHRISTIAN beliefs to ME!
Father overtime wrote:
I thought the 3 stooges were Jewish. Mormons are Christian. Because Dana says they are not and Osirica is a racist. Good enough for me.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#25801 May 20, 2013
osirica wrote:
OWTH is only used in KJV to translate as a mark in THAT passage.
NO
WHERE
ELSE
<quoted text>
You really know little of the scriptures. You're a very uninformed pathetic idiot at times like this. So mark is only used in the KJV huh? Suck up some more of your pathetic idiocy...

New International Version (©2011)
But the LORD said to him, "Not so; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over." Then the LORD put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him.

New Living Translation (©2007)
The LORD replied, "No, for I will give a sevenfold punishment to anyone who kills you." Then the LORD put a mark on Cain to warn anyone who might try to kill him.

English Standard Version (©2001)
Then the LORD said to him,“Not so! If anyone kills Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold.” And the LORD put a mark on Cain, lest any who found him should attack him.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
Then the LORD replied to him, "In that case, whoever kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over." And He placed a mark on Cain so that whoever found him would not kill him.

NET Bible (©2006)
But the LORD said to him, "All right then, if anyone kills Cain, Cain will be avenged seven times as much." Then the LORD put a special mark on Cain so that no one who found him would strike him down.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slays Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

American King James Version
And the LORD said to him, Therefore whoever slays Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark on Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And the Lord said to him: No, it shall not be so: but whosoever shall kill Cain, shall be punished sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, that whosoever found him should not kill him.

Darby Bible Translation
And Jehovah said to him, Therefore, whoever slayeth Cain, it shall be revenged sevenfold. And Jehovah set a mark on Cain, lest any finding him should smite him.

Webster's Bible Translation
And the LORD said to him, Therefore whoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him seven-fold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#25802 May 21, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
You really know little of the scriptures. You're a very uninformed pathetic idiot at times like this. So mark is only used in the KJV huh? Suck up some more of your pathetic idiocy...
The sure sign you have got No Surprise.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#25803 May 21, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
The sure sign you have got No Surprise.
Can't you even just use a wee-bit of that grey matter to think of just a bit of something intelligent to say? Do you always have to speak so lamely and pathetically?
You're racist buddy claimed 'mark' was in one single English Bible version and he knew that for a fact. So I showed him he was 'mistaken' by his idiocy of thought again. And your response was...
"The sure sign you have got No Surprise.'...lol...you are so predictable....you go dude...

“The Pleasure is all MINE”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#25805 May 21, 2013
THE

HEBREW

WORD

IS

OWTH

IT'S

ONLY

USED

THAT

ONE

TIME

FOR

MARK

IN

THAT

PASSAGE
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
You really know little of the scriptures. You're a very uninformed pathetic idiot at times like this. So mark is only used in the KJV huh? Suck up some more of your pathetic idiocy...
New International Version (©2011)
But the LORD said to him, "Not so; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over." Then the LORD put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him.
New Living Translation (©2007)
The LORD replied, "No, for I will give a sevenfold punishment to anyone who kills you." Then the LORD put a mark on Cain to warn anyone who might try to kill him.
English Standard Version (©2001)
Then the LORD said to him,“Not so! If anyone kills Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold.” And the LORD put a mark on Cain, lest any who found him should attack him.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
Then the LORD replied to him, "In that case, whoever kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over." And He placed a mark on Cain so that whoever found him would not kill him.
NET Bible (©2006)
But the LORD said to him, "All right then, if anyone kills Cain, Cain will be avenged seven times as much." Then the LORD put a special mark on Cain so that no one who found him would strike him down.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slays Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
American King James Version
And the LORD said to him, Therefore whoever slays Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark on Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And the Lord said to him: No, it shall not be so: but whosoever shall kill Cain, shall be punished sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, that whosoever found him should not kill him.
Darby Bible Translation
And Jehovah said to him, Therefore, whoever slayeth Cain, it shall be revenged sevenfold. And Jehovah set a mark on Cain, lest any finding him should smite him.
Webster's Bible Translation
And the LORD said to him, Therefore whoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him seven-fold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

“The Pleasure is all MINE”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#25806 May 21, 2013
No I didn't liar

I said the word is used only for "mark" ONE TIME in the English translations.
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Can't you even just use a wee-bit of that grey matter to think of just a bit of something intelligent to say? Do you always have to speak so lamely and pathetically?
You're racist buddy claimed 'mark' was in one single English Bible version and he knew that for a fact. So I showed him he was 'mistaken' by his idiocy of thought again. And your response was...
"The sure sign you have got No Surprise.'...lol...you are so predictable....you go dude...

“The Pleasure is all MINE”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#25807 May 21, 2013
Now find

ONE SPOT

in ANY translation

Where "OWTH" is used to mean a "Mark"

a PHYSICAL MARK.

77 times "OWTH" is used in Hebrew

sign 60,
token 14,
ensign 2,
miracles 2,
mark 1 (this stupid translation we are arguing about).

When a passage is used to translate into English ONE TIME out of 77... that is clear that some kind of bias
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
You really know little of the scriptures. You're a very uninformed pathetic idiot at times like this. So mark is only used in the KJV huh? Suck up some more of your pathetic idiocy...
New International Version (©2011)
But the LORD said to him, "Not so; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over." Then the LORD put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him.
New Living Translation (©2007)
The LORD replied, "No, for I will give a sevenfold punishment to anyone who kills you." Then the LORD put a mark on Cain to warn anyone who might try to kill him.
English Standard Version (©2001)
Then the LORD said to him,“Not so! If anyone kills Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold.” And the LORD put a mark on Cain, lest any who found him should attack him.
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
Then the LORD replied to him, "In that case, whoever kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over." And He placed a mark on Cain so that whoever found him would not kill him.
NET Bible (©2006)
But the LORD said to him, "All right then, if anyone kills Cain, Cain will be avenged seven times as much." Then the LORD put a special mark on Cain so that no one who found him would strike him down.
King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slays Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
American King James Version
And the LORD said to him, Therefore whoever slays Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark on Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And the Lord said to him: No, it shall not be so: but whosoever shall kill Cain, shall be punished sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, that whosoever found him should not kill him.
Darby Bible Translation
And Jehovah said to him, Therefore, whoever slayeth Cain, it shall be revenged sevenfold. And Jehovah set a mark on Cain, lest any finding him should smite him.
Webster's Bible Translation
And the LORD said to him, Therefore whoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him seven-fold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

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