Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

There are 32007 comments on the CNN story from Oct 12, 2011, titled Who says Mormons aren't Christians?. In it, CNN reports that:

Editor's note: Dean Obeidallah is an award-winning comedian who has appeared on TV shows such as Comedy Central's "Axis of Evil" special, ABC's "The View," CNN's "What the Week" and HLN's "The Joy Behar Show." He is executive producer of the annual New York Arab-American Comedy Festival and the Amman Stand Up Comedy Festival.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CNN.

Since: Sep 12

Ozark, MO

#24913 May 4, 2013
NoMo wrote:
<quoted text>Using crime and poverty as a justification for Elohim's curse is about as racist as one can get.
Hahahahahaha!!! As you state from the safety and comfort of your white bread, cookie cutter home in all white Provolandia.

“The Pleasure is all MINE”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#24914 May 4, 2013
Yea......

I'm still waiting for the 2011 Mormon to get back to me on that one, and the mormons that came to my house, and the other mormons I gave my info to,

I'm still waiting way back in 2006 for the Mormon Jeff Lindsay to get back to me on that one.

So you just get back to me.... mmmmk?

For now, this case is adjourned and dismissed without prejudice.

Feel free to send me the evidence to my screen name mailbox. I wouldnt want to lose your evidence in all these posts.

You DO know how to send personal messages here in topix right? I don't want "i dont know how" to be your excuse and then I come back here unable to find your proof among ALL these messages.

So yea... you take allll the time you need... Drink up buddy, get your strength back... I'll even help you find it if it's out there.

Adda boy
sportxmouse wrote:
<quoted text>
I will have to look for the resource to find it... It was not by any Mormon representative.

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#24915 May 4, 2013
osirica wrote:
yea, you're starting to fall apart here.
Can't just say "Yea Osirica you have a point"
Just going to hold on for dear life huh?
None of the people that made up 16th century =slim and baptist folk tale about Cain and black people... none of them made people black and none of them made people white.
yet Joseph Smith took their folk tale and stated that it really happened.
Did Joe Smith make black people or white people? No.
<quoted text>
Half correct... No person has changed a persons color (that is my point).

No, I am not falling apart. Thanks for inquiring.

No, Joseph Smith was inspired with Gospel Doctrines so that we could have what we were ready for at that time. I believe there are more Gospel documentation that has not been revealed yet.

I've been to many different Churches... I've studied world religions in college... and, I continue to research as deep as I can go for the full truth.

“The Pleasure is all MINE”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#24916 May 4, 2013
Oh you just did it didn't you?

I just showed you that the historical proof is, and that the Mormon version is not historically accurate.

You come back, waving away the evidence, the proof, and say "I have a true testimony"

No.

You have a testimony that you FEEL is compelling. You feel it to be very convincing. But it's not "true" unless it's filled with ideas that convey truth in them.

Substituting "the Book of Mormon" or "Mormonism" itself in a nutshell, when it has untruths in it... that is not sufficient or "good enough"

You DO realize that you can freely believe in God and Jesus WITHOUT Mormonism right?

I mean this isn't THAT complicated...
sportxmouse wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks, now let me tell you my interest is in deep historical truths about the Gospel.
I have a true testimony in the restored Church of Jesus Christ... which is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
If you would like a little history... let me know, maybe I can help you.

“The Pleasure is all MINE”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#24917 May 4, 2013
I know, thats why I said "let me take it"...

I obviously modified it to apply to me and my people.

You are a smart guy... i think you can keep up. Please don't start playing dumb ok?
sportxmouse wrote:
<quoted text>
That was not my statement.

“The Pleasure is all MINE”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#24918 May 4, 2013
Why not just be accurately correct? Forget the political.

Just get basic facts articulated.

I mean you can do THAT can't you???
Livinginthelandofcrazy wrote:
<quoted text>
Everything is an extreme with you, isn't it? Black and white (no pun intended). No matter. To you everything I say is a failure because, as I already said, it's not in line with how you think. I'm not politically correct, nor do I wish to be.

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#24919 May 4, 2013
osirica wrote:
Genesis 4:11 Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brotherís blood from your hand. 12 When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth.
Now your passage below:
Yea, none of that shows any relationship to "mark being racially black skin".
Offering, wroth, countenance, slayeth, vengence, punishment, bear...
None of those words have anything to do nor imply anything relating to racial skin colors being a "mark" which was actually an "oath" to protect Cain.
My "protection" was too much to bear?
You are really trying to push a square peg into a round hole.
<quoted text>
Look skin color doesn't matter to me. I've been saying that. This racial stuff is non-sense.

Cain was cursed with a mark... that is what it says in Genesis.

“The Pleasure is all MINE”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#24920 May 4, 2013
Yes, color sure did come from somewhere.

So you're back to my original question

Where did you get your assumption about Cain being turned into a black man from?

IF you say does matter. You're picking and choosing which "if" to matter on. How did you land on black skin?
sportxmouse wrote:
<quoted text>
Color came from some where.
So, IF does matter.

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#24921 May 4, 2013
osirica wrote:
Oh you just did it didn't you?
I just showed you that the historical proof is, and that the Mormon version is not historically accurate.
You come back, waving away the evidence, the proof, and say "I have a true testimony"
No.
You have a testimony that you FEEL is compelling. You feel it to be very convincing. But it's not "true" unless it's filled with ideas that convey truth in them.
Substituting "the Book of Mormon" or "Mormonism" itself in a nutshell, when it has untruths in it... that is not sufficient or "good enough"
You DO realize that you can freely believe in God and Jesus WITHOUT Mormonism right?
I mean this isn't THAT complicated...
<quoted text>
That's is your opinion.

Now, let me share a little history about the Bible with you.

The Church of Rome kept taking the scriptures and burning them so they would have ultimate power for money!

AND,
-killing the Apostles after Jesus Christ
-killing mothers and children for the mothers teaching the children
The Lord's Prayer...
-Burying ppl alive, beating ppl to death, boiling ppl in oil, burning people at the stake for trying to have a relationship with God outside of the Church of Rome.

... Come on... go read the History man. You gotta do better than this.

http://greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-h ...

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#24922 May 4, 2013
If you are seeking truth about the LDS Church, then read the Book of Mormon and pray to Heavenly Father if it is truth and the Holy Spirit will guide you.

James 1:5
5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

“The Pleasure is all MINE”

Since: Aug 08

Location hidden

#24923 May 4, 2013
Go get a magic marker, and write it on your forehead. or get a red magic marker and put spots on your cheeks and nose.

Get a magic marker and make a tattoo on your arm and neck.

that's what a "mark" is.

This so-called "metaphor" is not implied in the text since the HEBREW:

4:15 - And God made an oath with Cain.

You're going in circles, and you're playing the slow routine again. IF you want to pretend, just admit that. Don't have me walk you hand in hand again. that's what the other guy did... No Surprise, 2 years ago.
sportxmouse wrote:
GENESIS 4:15
.. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain...

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#24924 May 4, 2013
osirica wrote:
I know, thats why I said "let me take it"...
I obviously modified it to apply to me and my people.
You are a smart guy... i think you can keep up. Please don't start playing dumb ok?
<quoted text>
Your people... that's the thing.

I'm not YOUR people?

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#24925 May 4, 2013
EVIDENCE = VALID and ORIGINAL and CREDIBLE SOURCES

THERE IS NO EVIDENCE in Speculation or OPINION or Theory Unproven

To get to the truth of any validity, one would have to go back to the AUTHOR or the OLDEST copy of the SCRIPTURE...

and, I'm not talking about the version that the Jesuits helped the RC doctor to look like it was older than the KING JAMES version.

YOU DO that, then you have a point. However, historians have been trying for centuries to bring the Bible out of the DARK AGES/MIDDLE AGES when the RC DESTROYED the authenticity and WORD of JESUS CHRIST.

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#24926 May 4, 2013
Timeline of Bible Translation History

1,400 BC: The first written Word of God: The Ten Commandments delivered to Moses.

500 BC: Completion of All Original Hebrew Manuscripts which make up The 39 Books of the Old Testament.

200 BC: Completion of the Septuagint Greek Manuscripts which contain The 39 Old Testament Books AND 14 Apocrypha Books.

1st Century AD: Completion of All Original Greek Manuscripts which make up The 27 Books of the New Testament.

315 AD: Athenasius, the Bishop of Alexandria, identifies the 27 books of the New Testament which are today recognized as the canon of scripture.

382 AD: Jerome's Latin Vulgate Manuscripts Produced which contain All 80 Books (39 Old Test.+ 14 Apocrypha + 27 New Test).

500 AD: Scriptures have been Translated into Over 500 Languages.

600 AD: LATIN was the Only Language Allowed for Scripture.

995 AD: Anglo-Saxon (Early Roots of English Language) Translations of The New Testament Produced.

1384 AD: Wycliffe is the First Person to Produce a (Hand-Written) manuscript Copy of the Complete Bible; All 80 Books.

1455 AD: Gutenberg Invents the Printing Press; Books May Now be mass-Produced Instead of Individually Hand-Written. The First Book Ever Printed is Gutenberg's Bible in Latin.

1516 AD: Erasmus Produces a Greek/Latin Parallel New Testament.

1522 AD: Martin Luther's German New Testament.

1526 AD: William Tyndale's New Testament; The First New Testament printed in the English Language.

1535 AD: Myles Coverdale's Bible; The First Complete Bible printed in the English Language (80 Books: O.T. & N.T. & Apocrypha).

1537 AD: Tyndale-Matthews Bible; The Second Complete Bible printed in English. Done by John "Thomas Matthew" Rogers (80 Books).

1539 AD: The "Great Bible" Printed; The First English Language Bible Authorized for Public Use (80 Books).

1560 AD: The Geneva Bible Printed; The First English Language Bible to add Numbered Verses to Each Chapter (80 Books).

1568 AD: The Bishops Bible Printed; The Bible of which the King James was a Revision (80 Books).

1609 AD: The Douay Old Testament is added to the Rheims New Testament (of 1582) Making the First Complete English Catholic Bible; Translated from the Latin Vulgate (80 Books).

1611 AD: The King James Bible Printed; Originally with All 80 Books. The Apocrypha was Officially Removed in 1885 Leaving Only 66 Books.

1782 AD: Robert Aitken's Bible; The First English Language Bible (KJV) Printed in America.

1791 AD: Isaac Collins and Isaiah Thomas Respectively Produce the First Family Bible and First Illustrated Bible Printed in America. Both were King James Versions, with All 80 Books.

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#24927 May 4, 2013
1808 AD: Jane Aitken's Bible (Daughter of Robert Aitken); The First Bible to be Printed by a Woman.

1833 AD: Noah Webster's Bible; After Producing his Famous Dictionary, Webster Printed his Own Revision of the King James Bible.

1841 AD: English Hexapla New Testament; an Early Textual Comparison showing the Greek and 6 Famous English Translations in Parallel Columns.

1846 AD: The Illuminated Bible; The Most Lavishly Illustrated Bible printed in America. A King James Version, with All 80 Books.

1863 AD: Robert Young's "Literal" Translation; often criticized for being so literal that it sometimes obscures the contextual English meaning.

1885 AD: The "English Revised Version" Bible; The First Major English Revision of the KJV.

1901 AD: The "American Standard Version"; The First Major American Revision of the KJV.

1952 AD: The "Revised Standard Version" (RSV); said to be a Revision of the 1901 American Standard Version, though more highly criticized.

1971 AD: The "New American Standard Bible" (NASB) is Published as a "Modern and Accurate Word for Word English Translation" of the Bible.

1973 AD: The "New International Version" (NIV) is Published as a "Modern and Accurate Phrase for Phrase English Translation" of the Bible.

1982 AD: The "New King James Version" (NKJV) is Published as a "Modern English Version Maintaining the Original Style of the King James."

1990 AD: The "New Revised Standard Version" (NRSV); further revision of 1952 RSV,(itself a revision of 1901 ASV), criticized for "gender inclusiveness".

2002 AD: The English Standard Version (ESV) is Published as a translation to bridge the gap between the accuracy of the NASB and the readability of the NIV.

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#24928 May 4, 2013
MATTHEW 13:24-30

24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#24929 May 4, 2013
The Church of Rome kept taking the scriptures and burning them so they would have ultimate power for money!

AND,
-killing the Apostles after Jesus Christ
-killing mothers and children for the mothers teaching the children
The Lord's Prayer...
-Burying ppl alive, beating ppl to death, boiling ppl in oil, burning people at the stake for trying to have a relationship with God outside of the Church of Rome.

... Come on... go read the History man. You gotta do better than this.

http://greatsite.com/timeline-english-bible-h ...

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#24930 May 4, 2013
The Rome gave the Jews and the public permission...

Have you not ever read about St. Jerome, he wrote the volgate? He used to go into the catacombs of the Martyrs and the Apostles that were KILLED... it was horrible

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerome
http://books.google.com/books ....[6]+Here+and+there+the+lig ht,+not+entering+in+through+wi ndo ws,+but+filtering+down+from+ab ove+through+shafts,+relieved+t he+horror+of+the+darkness.+But +again,+as+soon+as+you+found+y ourself+cautiously+moving+forw ard,+the+black+night+closed+ar ound+and+there+came+to+my+mind +the+line+of+Virgil,+%22Horror +ubique+animos,+simul+ipsa+sil entia+terrent%22&source=bl &ots=xJnGcXL0Bb&sig=Zt rHF3mq49ocZuYBCK0CMqJBCeA& hl=en&sa=X&ei=iLF4Ueju K8OGjALkj4G4BA&ved=0CEQQ6A EwAg#v=onepage&q=%22Often% 20I%20would%20find%20myself%20 entering%20those%20crypts%2C%2 0deep%20dug%20in%20the%20earth %2C%20with%20their%20walls%20o n%20either%20side%20lined%20wi th%20the%20bodies%20of%20the%2 0dead%2C%20where%20everything% 20was%20so%20dark%20that%20alm ost%20it%20seemed%20as%20thoug h%20the%20Psalmist%27s%20words %20were%20fulfilled%2C%20Let%2 0them%20go%20down%20quick%20in to%20Hell.[6]%20Here%20and%20t here%20the%20light%2C%20not%20 entering%20in%20through%20wind ows%2C%20but%20filtering%20dow n%20from%20above%20through%20s hafts%2C%20relieved%20the%20ho rror%20of%20the%20darkness.%20 But%20again%2C%20as%20soon%20a s%20you%20found%20yourself%20c autiously%20moving%20forward%2 C%20the%20black%20night%20clos ed%20around%20and%20there%20ca me%20to%20my%20mind%20the%20li ne%20of%20Virgil%2C%20%22Horro r%20ubique%20animos%2C%20simul %20ipsa%20silentia%20terrent%2 2&f=false

...

As a student in Rome,

*he engaged in the superficial escapades and wanton behaviour of students there,

**which he indulged in quite casually but suffered terrible bouts of repentance afterwards.

*** To appease his conscience, he would visit on Sundays the sepulchers of the martyrs and the Apostles in the catacombs. This experience would remind him of the terrors of hell:

//"Often I would find myself entering those crypts,
deep dug in the earth,
with their walls on either side lined with the bodies of the dead,
where everything was so dark that almost it seemed as though the Psalmist's words were fulfilled,
Let them go down quick into Hell.

Here and there the light,
not entering in through windows,
but filtering down from above through shafts,
relieved the horror of the darkness.

But again, as soon as you found yourself cautiously moving forward,
the black night closed around and there came to my mind the line of Virgil,

"Horror ubique animos, simul ipsa silentia terrent"

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#24931 May 4, 2013
THE KILLING of the APOSTLES and Martyrs were documented in the Foxe's Book of Martyrs.

After Jesus was Crucified:

//
I. St. Stephen

St. Stephen suffered the next in order. His death was occasioned by the faithful manner in which he preached the Gospel to the betrayers and murderers of Christ. To such a degree of madness were they excited, that they cast him out of the city and stoned him to death. The time when he suffered is generally supposed to have been at the passover which succeeded to that of our Lord's crucifixion, and to the era of his ascension, in the following spring.

Upon this a great persecution was raised against all who professed their belief in Christ as the Messiah, or as a prophet. We are immediately told by St. Luke, that

"there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem;"

and that

"they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judaea and Samaria, except the apostles."

About two thousand Christians, with Nicanor, one of the seven deacons, suffered martyrdom during the "persecution that arose about Stephen."

//
II. James the Great

The next martyr we meet with, according to St. Luke, in the History of the Apostles' Acts, was James the son of Zebedee, the elder brother of John, and a relative of our Lord; for his mother Salome was cousin-german to the Virgin Mary. It was not until ten years after the death of Stephen that the second martyrdom took place; for no sooner had Herod Agrippa been appointed governor of Judea, than, with a view to ingratiate himself with them, he raised a sharp persecution against the Christians, and determined to make an effectual blow, by striking at their leaders. The account given us by an eminent primitive writer, Clemens Alexandrinus, ought not to be overlooked; that, as James was led to the place of martyrdom, his accuser was brought to repent of his conduct by the apostle's extraordinary courage and undauntedness, and fell down at his feet to request his pardon, professing himself a Christian, and resolving that James should not receive the crown of martyrdom alone. Hence they were both beheaded at the same time. Thus did the first apostolic martyr cheerfully and resolutely receive that cup, which he had told our Savior he was ready to drink. Timon and Parmenas suffered martyrdom about the same time; the one at Philippi, and the other in Macedonia. These events took place A.D. 44.

//
III. Philip

Was born at Bethsaida, in Galilee and was first called by the name of "disciple." He labored diligently in Upper Asia, and suffered martyrdom at Heliopolis, in Phrygia. He was scourged, thrown into prison, and afterwards crucified, A.D. 54.

//
IV. Matthew

Whose occupation was that of a toll-gatherer, was born at Nazareth. He wrote his gospel in Hebrew, which was afterwards translated into Greek by James the Less. The scene of his labors was Parthia, and Ethiopia, in which latter country he suffered martyrdom, being slain with a halberd in the city of Nadabah, A.D. 60.

//
V. James the Less

Is supposed by some to have been the brother of our Lord, by a former wife of Joseph. This is very doubtful, and accords too much with the Catholic superstition, that Mary never had any other children except our Savior. He was elected to the oversight of the churches of Jerusalem; and was the author of the Epistle ascribed to James in the sacred canon. At the age of ninety-four he was beat and stoned by the Jews; and finally had his brains dashed out with a fuller's club.

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#24932 May 4, 2013
//
VI. Matthias

Of whom less is known than of most of the other disciples, was elected to fill the vacant place of Judas. He was stoned at Jerusalem and then beheaded.

//
VII. Andrew

Was the brother of Peter. He preached the gospel to many Asiatic nations; but on his arrival at Edessa he was taken and crucified on a cross, the two ends of which were fixed transversely in the ground. Hence the derivation of the term, St. Andrew's Cross.

//
VIII. St. Mark

Was born of Jewish parents of the tribe of Levi. He is supposed to have been converted to Christianity by Peter, whom he served as an amanuensis, and under whose inspection he wrote his Gospel in the Greek language. Mark was dragged to pieces by the people of Alexandria, at the great solemnity of Serapis their idol, ending his life under their merciless hands.

//
IX. Peter

Among many other saints, the blessed apostle Peter was condemned to death, and crucified, as some do write, at Rome; albeit some others, and not without cause, do doubt thereof. Hegesippus saith that Nero sought matter against Peter to put him to death; which, when the people perceived, they entreated Peter with much ado that he would fly the city. Peter, through their importunity at length persuaded, prepared himself to avoid. But, coming to the gate, he saw the Lord Christ come to meet him, to whom he, worshipping, said, "Lord, whither dost Thou go?" To whom He answered and said, "I am come again to be crucified." By this, Peter, perceiving his suffering to be understood, returned into the city. Jerome saith that he was crucified, his head being down and his feet upward, himself so requiring, because he was (he said) unworthy to be crucified after the same form and manner as the Lord was.

//
X. Paul

Paul, the apostle, who before was called Saul, after his great travail and unspeakable labors in promoting the Gospel of Christ, suffered also in this first persecution under Nero. Abdias, declareth that under his execution Nero sent two of his esquires, Ferega and Parthemius, to bring him word of his death. They, coming to Paul instructing the people, desired him to pray for them, that they might believe; who told them that shortly after they should believe and be baptised at His sepulcher. This done, the soldiers came and led him out of the city to the place of execution, where he, after his prayers made, gave his neck to the sword.

//
XI. Jude

The brother of James, was commonly called Thaddeus. He was crucified at Edessa, A.D. 72.

//
XII. Bartholomew

Preached in several countries, and having translated the Gospel of Matthew into the language of India, he propagated it in that country. He was at length cruelly beaten and then crucified by the impatient idolaters.

//
XIII. Thomas

Called Didymus, preached the Gospel in Parthia and India, where exciting the rage of the pagan priests, he was martyred by being thrust through with a spear.

//
XIV. Luke

The evangelist, was the author of the Gospel which goes under his name. He travelled with Paul through various countries, and is supposed to have been hanged on an olive tree, by the idolatrous priests of Greece.

//
XV. Simon

Surnamed Zelotes, preached the Gospel in Mauritania, Africa, and even in Britain, in which latter country he was crucified, A.D. 74.

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