Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

There are 32098 comments on the CNN story from Oct 12, 2011, titled Who says Mormons aren't Christians?. In it, CNN reports that:

Editor's note: Dean Obeidallah is an award-winning comedian who has appeared on TV shows such as Comedy Central's "Axis of Evil" special, ABC's "The View," CNN's "What the Week" and HLN's "The Joy Behar Show." He is executive producer of the annual New York Arab-American Comedy Festival and the Amman Stand Up Comedy Festival.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CNN.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#21582 Mar 10, 2013
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Who is this? Lets all just simmer down a bit and get back to the doctrine of Christ and move away from the name calling.
I know you are trying to just bring peace(and I thank you for that) But correcting her will just put you on her list also, and you will get the same treatment. She's mentally ill.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#21583 Mar 10, 2013
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
So tell me than, what one combined nation of Israel sits on it's geographically described mountains? It is referencing a large city and it's not Jerusalem. It's only 2500 feet above sea level and sit's on what many call hills and plains.
The verse stated mountains of Israel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mountai...

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#21584 Mar 10, 2013
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
The Holy Ghost. We need the guidance of the Holy Ghost and modern prophets.
Have the Holy Ghost in you is in fact having God in you. When you have God in you, you don't need a prophet. You have a direct connection to God.

Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

#21585 Mar 10, 2013
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
The Holy Ghost. We need the guidance of the Holy Ghost and modern prophets.
Specifically..BK Packer. What has he ever said or done that you consider directly from god? Do you think his "little factory" flyer is a mistake or prophesy? What about his GC talk a few years ago, the one the brethren edited? Divine or a mistake? If something is divine, can it also be damaging?

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#21586 Mar 10, 2013
sportxmouse wrote:
<quoted text>
The King of both will be the Lord. You can deny it all you want, but you won't win.
The Stick as in a Scroll/Plates (whatever to write upon)!!!!!!!!!
I said the was a reference to Jesus. But the verse is talking about bringing the then two kingdoms of the Jews together, not books. The BoM couldn't be considered to have been written on any scroll, because it was said to have been written on plates, not scrolls. Epic fail on 2 counts.

sportxmouse

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#21587 Mar 10, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
I said the was a reference to Jesus. But the verse is talking about bringing the then two kingdoms of the Jews together, not books. The BoM couldn't be considered to have been written on any scroll, because it was said to have been written on plates, not scrolls. Epic fail on 2 counts.
2 Sticks are bringing two kingdoms together?

Who is the King over the 2 kingdoms?

sportxmouse

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#21588 Mar 10, 2013
Ezekial 37:18-22

18 ķAnd when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us awhat thou meanest by these?

19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the stick of aJoseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

20 ķAnd the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.

21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the aheathen, whither they be gone, and will bgather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

22 And I will make them aone bnation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and cone king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more dtwo nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#21589 Mar 10, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Have the Holy Ghost in you is in fact having God in you. When you have God in you, you don't need a prophet. You have a direct connection to God.
True, when we have the Holy Ghost, we have a direct connection with God.

However, God also needs to provide a voice of warning for those who do not have the Holy Ghost with them.
(Gen 6:3 "my spirit shall not always strive with man")

Also, just because we have the spirit of God or the Holy Ghost with us doesn't mean that we do not need a prophet. In Nehemiah we read that at one time the Jews had the Spirit of God with them, but they still needed a prophet, Moses.

Neh 9:20 "Thou gavest also thy good spirit to instruct them, and withheldest not thy manna from their mouth, and gavest them water for their thirst."

They were given the spirit to teach them, but they still needed a prophet.

In Numbers we see an event that seems to be paralleled by the Day of Pentecost we read of in the New Testament, an out pouring of the spirit of God. Yet the Jews still needed Moses.

Numbers 11:25 "And the Lord came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease."

These people received God, God was with them and they prophesied by the spirit of God, yet a Prophet was still needed.

sportxmouse

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#21590 Mar 10, 2013
In ancient times it was customary in forming the papyrus into books to use a long sheet (or many sheets), and roll it upon a stick.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#21591 Mar 10, 2013
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Read:
Rev 1:6 "And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father..." (whose father? God's Father. God has a Father)
The reference to God here is to Jesus Christ, his Father, Heavenly Father.
John 5:19 Christ said that he has done nothing except he has seen the Father do it. This has many implications. One implication is that since Jesus Christ was born and was a man, so was the Father.
Watch God create the heavens and the earth doesn't require that God had to be a man to do so. In fact, man can not create heavens or earth, so that would be a strike against.
Here are a few Bible references about exaltation:
Phil 2:5-6 Jesus Christ didn't think it detracts from God to be equal with him.
Understanding that verses requires a look at other translations to understand it:
Philippians 2:5-6

King James Version (KJV)
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

New International Version (NIV)
5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

New American Standard Bible (NASB)
5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,

New Living Translation (NLT)
5 You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had.
6 Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.

It isn't talking about man being equal to God or whether it was a sin or not.
Matt 5:48 Christ tells us to become like our Heavenly Father
Sinless, not a exalted human being.
John 3:2-3 When God appears we will see him as He is and if we have purified ourselves we will see that we are like Him.
No, it only says we will see the Kingdom of God.
Romans 8:16-17 We are the children of God, and if his children, then we can inherit what Christ inherited and be glorified with him.
The two verse before them clearly say that we are children by adoption. One does not have to adopt his own children:
"14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

We aren't considered his children until we have received the Spirit.
Revelation 3:20-21 "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my thrown..."
That would be a metaphor, as most of Revelations is.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#21592 Mar 10, 2013
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
True, when we have the Holy Ghost, we have a direct connection with God.
However, God also needs to provide a voice of warning for those who do not have the Holy Ghost with them.
(Gen 6:3 "my spirit shall not always strive with man")
Also, just because we have the spirit of God or the Holy Ghost with us doesn't mean that we do not need a prophet. In Nehemiah we read that at one time the Jews had the Spirit of God with them, but they still needed a prophet, Moses.
Neh 9:20 "Thou gavest also thy good spirit to instruct them, and withheldest not thy manna from their mouth, and gavest them water for their thirst."
They were given the spirit to teach them, but they still needed a prophet.
In Numbers we see an event that seems to be paralleled by the Day of Pentecost we read of in the New Testament, an out pouring of the spirit of God. Yet the Jews still needed Moses.
Numbers 11:25 "And the Lord came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease."
These people received God, God was with them and they prophesied by the spirit of God, yet a Prophet was still needed.
But they lost that spirit, or it wouldn't have had to be brought back. There isn't any problem or question a believer should have today about God's will if he has the Bible and the Holy Spirit within him.

sportxmouse

“Duty is a Privilege!”

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#21593 Mar 10, 2013
The King over the 2 nations that the 2 sticks brought together is the Lord!

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#21594 Mar 10, 2013
sportxmouse wrote:
In ancient times it was customary in forming the papyrus into books to use a long sheet (or many sheets), and roll it upon a stick.
The BoM wasn't written on papyrus(according to the Church), and the Hebrews have a different word for "books" if they meant "books"

Only one word was to be written on each stick. One word does not make a "book".

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#21595 Mar 10, 2013
NoMo wrote:
<quoted text>
Specifically..BK Packer. What has he ever said or done that you consider directly from god? Do you think his "little factory" flyer is a mistake or prophesy? What about his GC talk a few years ago, the one the brethren edited? Divine or a mistake? If something is divine, can it also be damaging?
Little factory? Ok Maybe some of the illustrative points he used were not the clearest if you want to put them under a microscope, but you have to look at it within the context of the audience he was addressing. However, the underlying principle that he taught is true, divine, and inspired. The powers of procreation and creation are sacred and special. We see evidence of this in Genesis 38:8-10.

A lot of different conclusions can be drawn from these verses, but I think there is a specific principle being taught here. Within this long line of genealogy the author breaks to make a special note of this guy "Onan." The principle is that the power of procreation is sacred and special and should not be used carelessly.

Perhaps that is what Paul is preaching in 2 Timothy chapter 3:
"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. for men shall be lovers of their own selves....without natural affection...lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God."

The natural affections we feel for the opposite gender are meant to be expressed within the bond of marriage. When we express those affections outside of marriage I think we start to lose some of that natural affection, start to become lovers of ourselves, and can travel down a rabbit trail where we end up loving pleasures more than God.

On a more selfish note: If we conserve our passions for our spouse, I feel that our intimate relations with that spouse will mean much more to us.

Editing talks: We all make mistakes. Prophets are human and some times things don't come out the way we intend. Give him some slack, Moses was slow of speech and he was a great guy and a great prophet, though he was not the most articulate.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#21596 Mar 10, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
The reference to God here is to Jesus Christ, his Father, Heavenly Father.
<quoted text>
Watch God create the heavens and the earth doesn't require that God had to be a man to do so. In fact, man can not create heavens or earth, so that would be a strike against.
<quoted text>
Understanding that verses requires a look at other translations to understand it:
Philippians 2:5-6
King James Version (KJV)
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
New International Version (NIV)
5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
5 Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
New Living Translation (NLT)
5 You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had.
6 Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.
It isn't talking about man being equal to God or whether it was a sin or not.
<quoted text>
Sinless, not a exalted human being.
<quoted text>
No, it only says we will see the Kingdom of God.
<quoted text>
The two verse before them clearly say that we are children by adoption. One does not have to adopt his own children:
"14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
We aren't considered his children until we have received the Spirit.
<quoted text>
That would be a metaphor, as most of Revelations is.
You made a lot of good points. It just boils down to how you interpret the scriptures.

As far as the Book of Revelation is concerned, Chapter 1 verse 5 and 6. Verse 5 is talking about Jesus Christ then verses 6 continues to talk about what Christ has done for us.

Rev 1:5-6
Verse 5 ends with "and washed us from our sins in his own blood..."
(who washed us from our sings in his own blood? Christ did)
Verse 6 starts as a continuation of the list of things Christ has done for us "and hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father..."

God is God the Father, "his Father" is God's Father.

I totally agree with what you said about the spirit of adoption. The point is that we have the potential, once we have been adopted into His family, to be joint heirs with Christ and everything that implies.

Personally I feel that the King James Version maintains the integrity of the doctrine contained in the words of the Bible better than newer translations, but I see how you can come to different conclusions using newer translations.

I understand the reasons behind new translations, the additional scholarship put into them and the new studies of ancient languages, but I think that it would be hard to translate ancient scripture without translating things to fit what modern Christianity has become.(the same applies to the KJV, but I still prefer it)

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#21598 Mar 10, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
But they lost that spirit, or it wouldn't have had to be brought back. There isn't any problem or question a believer should have today about God's will if he has the Bible and the Holy Spirit within him.
Thanks for bringing the conversation back to the principles of the gospel. Really, I think this is what the true meat of this forum should be.

True, the spirit was lost from the children of Israel. However, if what you say is true, and all a believer needs to know God's will is the Bible and the Holy Spirit, why are there so many roads to salvation taught by different Christian churches?

We won't talk about the fundamental Christians or even super controversial beliefs or practices. Lets just stick to the basics, like baptism. Baptism should be pretty straight forward. Its in the New Testament, Christ did it, and he told his apostles to do it. So its clear we should do it too right?

Its not so clear.

-How is it that some Christians with the Holy Spirit say we MUST be baptized literally and some say we don't need to be baptized literally? Some Christians who do believe we need to be baptized argue over exactly how the baptism is to be done, what words need to be spoken and how the water is involved.(sprinkling or immersion or anointing)

I truly believe that these are good Christians with good intentions trying to follow Christ. They are trying to seek and do the will of God, but they are not sure if baptism is needed or not and how to do it.

It is in instances like these that a prophet becomes very helpful.

Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

#21599 Mar 10, 2013
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Little factory? Ok Maybe some of the illustrative points he used were not the clearest if you want to put them under a microscope, but you have to look at it within the context of the audience he was addressing. However, the underlying principle that he taught is true, divine, and inspired. The powers of procreation and creation are sacred and special. We see evidence of this in Genesis 38:8-10.
A lot of different conclusions can be drawn from these verses, but I think there is a specific principle being taught here. Within this long line of genealogy the author breaks to make a special note of this guy "Onan." The principle is that the power of procreation is sacred and special and should not be used carelessly.
Perhaps that is what Paul is preaching in 2 Timothy chapter 3:
"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. for men shall be lovers of their own selves....without natural affection...lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God."
The natural affections we feel for the opposite gender are meant to be expressed within the bond of marriage. When we express those affections outside of marriage I think we start to lose some of that natural affection, start to become lovers of ourselves, and can travel down a rabbit trail where we end up loving pleasures more than God.
On a more selfish note: If we conserve our passions for our spouse, I feel that our intimate relations with that spouse will mean much more to us.
Editing talks: We all make mistakes. Prophets are human and some times things don't come out the way we intend. Give him some slack, Moses was slow of speech and he was a great guy and a great prophet, though he was not the most articulate.
There was a kid who took those words to heart..so did the kids bishop. He believed masturbation was a terrible sin and was so ashamed of himself( which was reinforced by his bishop) that he killed himself...dad sued the church, it's all well documented. Was that BKP's intention when he wrote the little factory? Idk...probably not but it's the result....seems to me if god had inspired BKP, packers words would uplift, not harm. But we should cut him some slack, right? even when he says god didnt create gay people in the middle of a suicide rash here? Moses' speech impediment is like BKP's homophobia...wow. But I can't cut any him slack. It's not the same
Google ETZ CHAIM

Live Oak, CA

#21600 Mar 11, 2013
NoMo wrote:
<quoted text>
There was a kid who took those words to heart..so did the kids bishop. He believed masturbation was a terrible sin and was so ashamed of himself( which was reinforced by his bishop) that he killed himself...dad sued the church, it's all well documented. Was that BKP's intention when he wrote the little factory? Idk...probably not but it's the result....seems to me if god had inspired BKP, packers words would uplift, not harm. But we should cut him some slack, right? even when he says god didnt create gay people in the middle of a suicide rash here? Moses' speech impediment is like BKP's homophobia...wow. But I can't cut any him slack. It's not the same
According to your GenderBenderBilly Loon-Barking

since Judas hanged himself
after Jesus advised HIM to hurry and betray Him

his blood's on Jesus's hands.

And since ALL 12 APOSTLES were eventually murdered:
along with THOUSANDS of OTHERS

DOING WHAT Jesus Christ ADVISED

All THOSE deaths
are the responsibility of Jesus Christ,

so YOU can't cut HIM any slack.

You're a shallow, self-serving rebel,

looking for ANY excuse to tell God, take His commandments

that YOU, and the WHOLE of MANKIND, not to be a bunch of whoring

masturbatory tramps, elsewhere.

Ten bucks says that between you
and Boyd K Packer,

he's the one with 50 years' extensive travel and leadership, under demanding conditions in all weather,
seasons,
places,
situations,

and you're the one sitting in a second-hand couch nursing a big bottle of dope that has a name so long most people can't pronounce it.

Because all the other dope they tried with shorter names didn't work on you either.

GO FIGURE.
Google ETZ CHAIM

Live Oak, CA

#21601 Mar 11, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
I know you are trying to just bring peace(and I thank you for that) But correcting her will just put you on her list also, and you will get the same treatment. She's mentally ill.
If you're not a LIAR
we'll be seeing your words come true.

If YOU ARE
a BALD FACED LIAR
and general purpose pedo-billy SOCIOPATH
I won't.

We'll see if you're a BALD FACED LIAR
by whether what you said is gonna happen,
does or not.
Google ETZ CHAIM

Live Oak, CA

#21602 Mar 11, 2013
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
There has never been a book written on a "stick". If they had meant "scrolls" they would have said "scrolls". They are two completely different Hebrew words.
the WORD in the HEBREW that ALMOST ALL THE BIBLE VERSIONS on EARTH
translate as *STICKS*

is ETZ.

The NAME for the STICKS
used to ROLL a SCROLL

is **ETZ**

GOOGLE ETZ CHAIM and watch the pages pop up saying

"WOODEN SCROLL ROLLERS"

"The term Etz Chaim,(plural: &#1506;&#1510;&#14 97; &#1495;&#1497;&#14 97;&#1501; Atzei Chaim), is also used to describe each of THE WOODEN POLES TO WHICH THE PARCHMENT of a Sefer TORAH are ATTACHED.

=====
What a disingenuous, lying, sociopathic pedo-billy HICK you turn out to be.

For YEARS you've been here denying that the STICKS of a SCROLL are named "ETZ"

when all it took was FIFTEEN SECONDS' checking on your

LYING.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

North Salt Lake Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Gay couple denied baby through surrogate challe... 1 hr spud 33
News SLCPD detective who arrested nurse had been dis... Sep 16 ducky d 1
I love Utah farts Sep 15 Flatulencia Toiletta 5
News The Latest: Mayor: Probe shows policies broken ... Sep 14 cindy 1
News Geologists, residents see more movement in Nort... (Apr '16) Apr '16 jsmetzgerin 1
News Loss of members spurred LDS singles ward changes (Apr '11) Feb '15 Blow 4
News Police close to catching Midvale check fraud su... (Sep '10) Jan '15 not surprised 36

North Salt Lake Jobs

More from around the web

Personal Finance

North Salt Lake Mortgages