Miscommunication may have led to pain...

Miscommunication may have led to painting over $2,500 mural at ...

There are 51 comments on the Pasadena Star-News story from Nov 30, 2009, titled Miscommunication may have led to painting over $2,500 mural at .... In it, Pasadena Star-News reports that:

It was hard for artist Christian Aldereteto describe his feelings Monday after seeing a blank wall where he had recently completed a colorful 60-foot city funded mural on a Northwest Pasadena storefront.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Pasadena Star-News.

boog

Los Angeles, CA

#21 Dec 1, 2009
I'm just upset that this mural was originally planned via publicly accessible local commission meetings instead of being placed before Internet commenters, who should have the final say on all such issues.
Molcajete

Fort Worth, TX

#22 Dec 1, 2009
A land mark? taking a dump is a land mark.
The picture wasn't really that good looking anyways and to look at it for 20 30 years is just really crazy. Get real....
If you want to see murals all the time move to East L A.
Bruce

Azusa, CA

#23 Dec 1, 2009
Did she speak English? Part of getting a city business permit could be a requirement that English be understood and spoken.
Jennifer

Los Angeles, CA

#24 Dec 1, 2009
Bill Davis wrote:
Well now, there it is.
When someone, like Art in the post above, has nothing of substance to contribute they always turn to attacking, name calling and cursing. He knows I am correct and just cannot stand it. He knows all about Mayan culture and nothing about Pasadena. Art needs to stay in Anaheim and mind his own business. BTW, I live in Pasadena.
Attacking and name calling??? You really are one to talk. These two artists worked hard getting this grant, creating their designing and working with local children to help the neighborhood and all you've done is criticize them. This is not the only artwork that will be created for the city. Why is it that other artwork can't represent another ethnicity or theme? You criticize as though you are qualified to do so. There is nothing wrong with a difference of opinion, but only with the manner in which you display that opinion. Lastly, if you have a problem with the program, you should probably take it up with the city and not the artists, who are only taking advantage of an oppportunity.

Put your money where your mouth is!
Pasadena Resident

Los Angeles, CA

#25 Dec 1, 2009
Bruce wrote:
Did she speak English? Part of getting a city business permit could be a requirement that English be understood and spoken.
The state of California has no official language, and will not restrict the rights of people to do business, so even if she is a non-English speaker, she would still be allowed a business permit. We should hope that a translator would have been employed to explain to her her rights and responsibilities (which should be the owner's responsibility), but unless I'm reading too much in the limited quotes, the city cultural affairs person seems a little too flippant to actually really make sure the woman really knew her responsibilities, but hey "everyone knows there are state and federal laws...."
Marty Micklak

Los Angeles, CA

#26 Dec 1, 2009
True Freedom wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, one of the self proclaimed co-artists specifically used that word to describe an underlying intent in the mural's design... and the word itself has a very specific meaning.
<quoted text>
Like I wrote before, you're too hung up on a word that was probably misused originally.
adolf

Pasadena, CA

#27 Dec 1, 2009
So nice to see racial tension at this time of season. Why dont we get rid of chinatown and olvera street or better yet, why dont we paint this entire city a nice shade of white and put a symbol unifying us on our arm?

“a good community is OUR job”

Since: Mar 09

Pasadena

#28 Dec 1, 2009
Marty Micklak wrote:
<quoted text>
Like I wrote before, you're too hung up on a word that was probably misused originally.
Yeah, you are right. Given that this is a forum, where people type and communicate with words, I probably shouldn't get hung up on actual words... words used by an artist to describe their own work. Thanks for the tip.

You are a ****. Don't get hung up, it's just a word that I probably misused.

(btw, I actually typed all asterisks, so you can insert whatever word you feel comfy with.)
Humberto

Hawthorne, CA

#29 Dec 1, 2009
That was a nice looking mural. Much nicer than some of the pieces in East L.A. But just the same, murals in general are tacky and make the neighborhood look cheep. And when the murals are Mayan, Aztec, Chicano, etc, it's like the neighborhood is being tagged by a whole race, not just a gang. And the bantu water serpent, what a crock, that didn't look like any African art styles I am familiar with. I agree with Bill, if there should be any tribute to the history of Pasadena, it should be one of the local NORTHERN Ute Aztec tribes, not Southern.
Art

United States

#30 Dec 1, 2009
Tlaloc is a universal representation for water amongst indigenous philosophy from central america up into southern california. Since the tongva are a variation of uto-aztecan culture, in language and certain cultural aspects, it is apropriate to put in a major cultural symbol in uto-aztecan culture.

In order to keep away graffiti, the mural must have contrasting colors and content varied enough to disuade graffiti. the tongva have no such representation of tlaloc that is as intricate as needed to abate graffit abatement, so this hybrid of mayan aztec illustrations was chosen .

In a perfect world the mural would have told children bedtime stories and pciekd up trash.

BTW humberto from LP, you might want to learn how to spell when you call soemthing cheep (aka cheap). The body design is of bantu style, and was invcluded at the behest of african americam students from muir hs.

you cant please everyone, and apparently they all convene on this forum!
Art

United States

#31 Dec 1, 2009
True Freedom wrote:
Art: I certainly applaud the efforts to teach the children about protecting the watershed. Too many children in our town chuck their trash on the ground without a second thought... to a disgusting degree I have not seen in other places I've lived.
I do think Bill Davis has a good point that I'll restate: if having an indigenous theme was part of the mural's design, it would have been a good idea to include people who are indigenous to this area.
Also, there are many more faces in NW Pas besides black and brown. It would be a good idea to throw in a few other faces. Remember how minorities felt when they were excluded in the past. Now that the demographics have changed, be careful not to repeat the same mistakes. Additionally, fifteen years from now, if that mural still stands, the neighborhood could very likely be more yellow than black or brown.
those are good points, iappreciate the compliments and constructive criticism!

The mural is part of several related to the Arroyo Seco watershed, including one that focused on tongva design in cypress park. more environmentally themed murals were/are planned, and will definitely include tongva styles as that is an excellent idea.

the reason for the choice in style was to attract local youth in the moment, so they would help paint the mural, get a sense of ownership and hopefully be a catalyst fo rmore positive contributing to the area.

thanks again for the feedback, it is duly noted.
Bruce

Azusa, CA

#32 Dec 1, 2009
I think it was a fine mural. I hate graffiti and taggers in general and would rather see more murals. This woman should pay the artist to repaint the mural.
Humberto

Hawthorne, CA

#33 Dec 1, 2009
Art wrote:
In a perfect world the mural would have told children bedtime stories and pciekd* up trash.
BTW humberto from LP, you might want to learn how to spell when you call soemthing* cheep (aka cheap). The body design is of bantu style, and was invcluded* at the behest of african americam* students from muir hs.
you cant please everyone, and apparently they all convene on this forum!
I see your browser doesn't have a spell checker either.
-----abc

Novato, CA

#34 Dec 1, 2009
Bill Davis, your words of WISDOM are truly appreciated.You took your FREEDOM of SPEECH to good use. The ones that feel offended by your comments are the ones that are probably doing other things illegally.That mural did NOT look appealing at all ! It just reminded me of the trouble in all of EAST L.A.,Ca..I also see it as gangs culture,not ours.
Mutt

Pico Rivera, CA

#35 Dec 1, 2009
"There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all... The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English-Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian-Americans or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality, than with the other citizens of the American Republic... There is no such thing as a hyphenated American who is a good American. The only man who is a good American is the man who is an American and nothing else."
- President Theodore Roosevelt
huh

San Diego, CA

#36 Dec 1, 2009
reminds me of the long Topix post I was writing then the computer went .. bleep .. ooops &@#&(@$!

“ No Moe Mr Nice Guy”

Since: Jul 08

United States

#37 Dec 2, 2009
Art wrote:
<quoted text>
People like you actually think your opinion is worth anything beyond ignoring, which is really sad. Go be a bitter loser somewhere else, your culture war BS is not productive in a story about a mural being painted over. The fact that you think a tagged up wall with mismatched peeling paint is better than a piece of art says a lot about your biases, the fact that you feel the need to continually respond with your unhappy nonsense is pathetic.
What have you done to improve this area, beyond bitter griping? There are thousands of kids who are now aware of the Arroyo Seco, to not litter since their trash will go into the Arroyo Seco, and that watershed management has been an important aspect of survival in this continent for millenia, which tlaloc illustrates. If you are so concerned abou the tongva being represented then pony up some funding to paint a tongva themed watershed mural, otherwise shut your miserable yap.
PS, read the story and look at the pictures. There are black and brown kids painting together in harmony. The snake on the top area is a bantu water serpent, representative of water management in Africa as well. The mural theme shows 2 distinct cultural representations of water, and was used to illustrate the importance of water management and environmental stewardship among the 2 major demographics residing in NW pasadena. Since more locals are related to the aztec-mayan and bantu ethnicities than tongva, the specific characters were appropriate. but they were taught about the tongva nation as well, while you were sitting on the web being an armchair warrior griping about something else.
"Can't we all just get along"

Rodney King
Vmarch

Ontario, CA

#38 Dec 2, 2009
This is a waste of taxpayer money. quit complaining about this issue. Your work is a blight on society and simply invites graffitti from idiots less skilled than you. Get a life.
omg

Los Angeles, CA

#39 Dec 2, 2009
How about giving a $2500 grant to our elementary schools for art!
Jennifer

Los Angeles, CA

#40 Dec 2, 2009
Vmarch wrote:
This is a waste of taxpayer money. quit complaining about this issue. Your work is a blight on society and simply invites graffitti from idiots less skilled than you. Get a life.
Can you be any more unintelligent? These two artists have a life that includes creating art and helping to contribute to the city. You have no idea who these people are but feel compelled to call them idiots. Why not take it up with the city who created this program that they merely applied to be a part of? Don't you think approving a grant to have this mural painted in the first place, then within a couple of weeks it being painted over was an even greater waste of money? Do a little research to understand that leaving a wall clean (without the mural) is a clearer invitation for graffiti (spelled correctly). You are the only who should really get a life.

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