Strike's fallout could spread beyond unionized hospitals, report warns

A nursing strike of 14 hospitals - a near certainty if negotiations falter today - could be a financial blow to the Twin Cities' health care market, according to a report issued Monday by Moody's Investors Service. Full Story
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Wow

Springfield, MO

#83 Jun 29, 2010
This is the kind of inflammatory garbage being spewed on MNA's facebook:

Shirley Shogren FOR all the nurses that are signing in to cross the picket line, REMEMBER admin does not care about anything but MONEY. They have fired anyone and laid off eveyone they could. If we do not hang on to what we have worked for for 50 years, we have nothing. Admin will hire who they want, for how much they want, and you wo...uld work where they want. SO DO NOT BE STUPID!! You will not have a job, with no contract!!!
Jack

Saint Paul, MN

#84 Jun 29, 2010
The sooner the strike the better so the nurses can all be shitcanned and the hospitals can begin to rebuild a new staff. I am stunned at the low level of intelligence I have heard from nurses during this dispute and their suicidal desire to strike if they don't get their way. I erroneously thought nurses were smarter, more professional but they aren't any different from union flight attendants.
Jabber

Saint Joseph, MN

#85 Jun 29, 2010
Maybe all you people who are complaining about the cushy, high paying nursing jobs would have a little bit of brains and go to school and be a nurse then you could complain. but most of you are in jobs that require no thinking and dealing with the public. That's why your wages were cut an illegal can do your job and your boss has no qualms about hiring these people to replace you.
So get off your high horse and get to school and become a nurse and see what it is like.
All together now

Saint Paul, MN

#86 Jun 29, 2010
Curious indeed wrote:
So many strong opinions based on inaccuracies. To be clear, the twin city hospitals told the union they were not interested in discussing even one aspect of the nurses' concern for their patient's safety "not one sentence, not one word". The twin city hospitals would like the public to believe that they have been bargaining in good faith. Nothing could be further from the truth. The hospitals spend $$$$ on public relations to spin their story. So.... If thousands of nurses are willing to make huge sacrifices for patients...... consider they just might have a point. Nurses have tried to work with management. We have been ignored. Current policies to protect patients have been disregarded....patients ARE at risk now. The TC Hospitals are proposing that they would increase the number of patients per nurse...further increasing these risks. Just imagine how you would feel if you are the patient, sick, vulnerable and your nurse has too many patients to give you the care you need and deserve. This IS the heart of the matter.
What a deluded piece of one way BS.
Dacota

Winona, MN

#87 Jun 29, 2010
Dave from Lakeland wrote:
<quoted text>
An RN is only a 2 year degree. A 4 year is a different program
Wrong wrong wrong.

The 2 year is the bare minimum to be a not top notch RN. Four year is the standard

According to the union an RN is an RN, "top notch" or not. Hey Union Jerk!!! would you rather have a 2-year RN or a 4-year RN caring for you???
it is time

Minneapolis, MN

#88 Jun 29, 2010
to stop being selfish. If the nurses truely go on strike not only are you affecting the patients but you are also affecting your co-workers who are not in your union or union at all.
I work at one of the striking hospitals, and a lot of the nurses I have talked to have said a long the lines of they aren't really voting for a strike for patient safety, it's all about pension and wage increase. So when I hear that the strike is about patient safety, I really have to question if that's true.
I am a nursing assistant in one of the striking hospitals and have to say that nursing assistants are the ones doing a majority of the personal patient care. We are the ones giving them baths, helping them go to the bathroom, cleaning up vomit and feces. We are the ones changing the bed linen when the patients have soiled them, comforting them when they are sitting in the hospital alone and scared.
So I don't have a 4 year degree, but I do have compassion, and care for the patients I take care of. Just because I don't have a 4 year degree doesn't make me any less of a person as a nurse.( I often feel as though the nurses I work with do not appreciate all that the nursing assistants do and I feel we get looked down upon)
I didn't care that we didn't get a raise our first year of our contract. All that truely mattered to me was that I had a job. I have money coming in to support my family.
If the nurses strike, it will probably put a lot of people out of work. I have heard rumors that a hospital or 2 will shut down as many units as it can. IF I end up being laid off over this strike, I will have a lot more bitterness towards these nurses. Think of all the people you could be putting out of work. A few of us are the only ones who bring any money home to our families do to our spouses and partners being laid off already is this awful economy.
I just had to add my 2 cents, I know it's not worth much. I just can not sit here any longer and keep quiet.
JJJ

Saint Paul, MN

#89 Jun 29, 2010
Shame on you guys wrote:
All those little kids and babies in NICU, adults in ICU in all the other hospitals and you're just going to walk out on them. Remind me again of the oath you took when you signed on to become a nurse??? You're not just walking out on your employer, you're walking out on critically sick people. Find another way to negotiate. Your so called union leader is leading you down a bad path, don't fall for it. If you all had more nurses aides and more health unit coordinators, your jobs would be more manageable and you wouldn't HAVE to work so many hours. Why don't you strike for that and that alone?
Hospice nurses are also walking out on their patients. There are some nurses out there who are not behind MNA and are staying with their patients. They deserve a lot of credit.
P T Bull

Hopkins, MN

#90 Jun 29, 2010
And wrote:
<quoted text>
And we Minnesotans Hate YOU....

And we can see you are from wisconsin, you idiot.
P T Bull

Hopkins, MN

#91 Jun 29, 2010
There is no reason to put a guilt trip on the striking nurses for leaving 'their' patients. Patients are customers of medical services and the strike will mean that different nurses will provide these services.

Nurses are nurses in general, though some have suggested there is more professionalism in non-union shops where people are compensated based on skill level.

I don't think its a matter of 'the public' supporting the nurses or not. Who cares? The hospitals will do their job and for the majority of us who are not going to the hospital during the strike, its not a matter of any concern.

Of course, the marxist fallacy of the union nurses here is that their desired higher wages and lower workload will not come out of the hospital's pocket--it will be paid for with higher health insurance premiums as it will raise the cost of hospital stays.

The rational analysis is not flattering, but sentimental and magical thinking is unrealistic.
P T Bull

Hopkins, MN

#92 Jun 29, 2010
it is time wrote:
to stop being selfish. If the nurses truely go on strike not only are you affecting the patients...

It does not affect the patients--except in some metaphysical sense that they would have had a different, but interchangeable, nurse taking care of them.
ganurse

Macon, GA

#93 Jun 29, 2010
wow wrote:
<quoted text>
Just ask the mechanics who worked for NWA. A large majority of them were replaced. Everyone in the U.S. is replaceable. You walk out on your job...you should be replaced. You walk out on sick and injured patients....you should be replaced. Patient safety...poppycock! You nurses are walking out on people who seriously need you. Fortunately there are many trained and certified nurses to pick up the ball you dropped!
Totally agree with what you said! See you in MN!
Are you kidding

Saint Paul, MN

#94 Jun 29, 2010
Curious indeed wrote:
So many strong opinions based on inaccuracies. To be clear, the twin city hospitals told the union they were not interested in discussing even one aspect of the nurses' concern for their patient's safety "not one sentence, not one word". The twin city hospitals would like the public to believe that they have been bargaining in good faith. Nothing could be further from the truth. The hospitals spend $$$$ on public relations to spin their story. So.... If thousands of nurses are willing to make huge sacrifices for patients...... consider they just might have a point. Nurses have tried to work with management. We have been ignored. Current policies to protect patients have been disregarded....patients ARE at risk now. The TC Hospitals are proposing that they would increase the number of patients per nurse...further increasing these risks. Just imagine how you would feel if you are the patient, sick, vulnerable and your nurse has too many patients to give you the care you need and deserve. This IS the heart of the matter.
"The heart of the matter" is that your union wants to
have an equal say in the managing of the hospitals, which
is what staffing and scheduling debates are all about.
You call it "protecting patients"; they call it trying
to tell them how to staff and schedule their business.
No, they are NOT going to negotiate that away unless
something pretty dramatic causes them to shift that
position. Maybe a strike will cause them to do that.
And maybe it will cause them to dig in even deeper.
If you believe that strongly, then do what you have to
do and take your chances. Just don't give us the
propaganda that you are all about the patients and
they are all about the money. Both sides are interested
in both things; management simply isn't willing to
discuss "even one aspect" of you taking over staffing
decisions and you believe you have that right.
That "IS the heart of the matter".
Saint Paul Mom

Minneapolis, MN

#95 Jun 30, 2010
P T Bull wrote:
<quoted text>
It does not affect the patients--except in some metaphysical sense that they would have had a different, but interchangeable, nurse taking care of them.
I agree that the nurses that will be replacing the striking nurses will be competent. However, hospitals will be scrambling to replace the striking nurses and patients will be affected.

Patients who are scheduled for elective surgeries are already hearing from their providers that they will need to reschedule those procedures scheduled in the first few weeks of the strike. Many times patients have spent weeks, months or years scheduling these procedures. Additionally, people who come into understaffed hospitals ill or injured may find themselves in the Emergency Rooms for very long times waiting to be seen or waiting for a bed to open. In some cases they will be rerouted to other hospitals. Patients will be affected.

Since: Aug 09

Saint Paul, MN

#96 Jun 30, 2010
Jabber wrote:
Maybe all you people who are complaining about the cushy, high paying nursing jobs would have a little bit of brains and go to school and be a nurse then you could complain. but most of you are in jobs that require no thinking and dealing with the public. That's why your wages were cut an illegal can do your job and your boss has no qualms about hiring these people to replace you.
So get off your high horse and get to school and become a nurse and see what it is like.
Trust me...there aren't more than a couple nurses out there that could handle the education and skill-set required to do my job. Feel free to keep telling yourself you are some demi-God because you are an RN...I'm sure that self-righteous attitude will come in really handy when the bills come due and you are still screaming obscenities at the passing motorists. If I were you, I'd bid to get on a picket line with nice morning sun and shade in the hot afternoons. I'm sure with your attitude you are a senior member of this pathetic union so that should be no problem.
durrrr

Minneapolis, MN

#97 Jun 30, 2010
A Mommy wrote:
My 5 year old is going in for surgery at the end of July. Because it is a scheduled surgery, there is a risk that should a strike happen, it will be pushed back. I have already made plans to fly my mother out to help care for him and help me out so that I don't get fired from work. I don't know enough on either side to make a judgment about who is right and who is wrong but I hope both sides realize: you are hurting more than yourselves. Please come to a resolution and avoid this. The surgery is needed but not critical (not like open heart surgery.) After consulting with the doctors, it was decided that to wait would increase the pain and increase recovery time.
Go to WI for the surgery?
Ms V

Saint Paul, MN

#98 Jun 30, 2010
sock wrote:
<quoted text>
Whose fault is it that you have zero ambition?
You think you have it hard go work for a moving company 10 years ago I worked for a local moving company and was paid $15 an hour, plus tips. Guess what? It wasnt a union job! Just hard work and good pay.
I have no ambition. I've been on my own since I was 20 - my own apartment, job with health insurance (major medical), and no money from my parents. I did 2 years of college (student loans/grants/scholarships - my parents only grossed $9k in 1981 - couldn't afford to pay my way)but couldn't see the value of something I already couldn't afford if I couldn't get a job afterwards - let alone pay back the debt. So, instead of being a burden on society I was pro-active and went door-to-door and found a job to pay my way. If your family had not been in financial difficulties when you were growing up, you may not understand the reasoning behind holding on to a job - any job - to make sure bills are paid. That, and trying to establish one's self in the adult world is a pretty compelling reason to not job-hop. I have been unemployed for a total of 9 months since 1985 - 6 months in 1994 and 3 months in 2001. I've been paying into the system since 1980.

Glad you got tips - none of my jobs offered those, let alone overtime. Did you claim those tips on your income taxes? If not, screw you, you are cheating me and others out of tax revenue. Bet you don't file single-zero, either. Not that I enjoy a tax free loan to the government, but they sure can't complain that I am not paying my part. You got lucky - most unskilled private sector jobs don't pay nearly that much. Sorry, but even though it may be hard work, moving is not a skill - not like working with the type of people I have to everyday. I did not ask for this job; I was transferred to it due to budget cuts. I don't complain because I like the idea of being able to eat, have a roof over my head, and have health insurance. Just wondering, day in and day out, do you work with what most consider to be the dregs of society? How much do you think that is worth. Apparently not the 38k I grossed last year - which translates to about 24k after taxes and then about 10k after I pay my mortgage.$10k for utilities, food, prescriptions per year. Yeah, this union employee is really getting rich off of you.
boohoohoo

Minneapolis, MN

#99 Jun 30, 2010
Ms V wrote:
<quoted text>
I have no ambition. I've been on my own since I was 20 - my own apartment, job with health insurance (major medical), and no money from my parents. I did 2 years of college (student loans/grants/scholarships - blah blah blah
Waaaaa! Poor you.
P T Bull

Hopkins, MN

#100 Jun 30, 2010
Saint Paul Mom wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree that the nurses that will be replacing the striking nurses will be competent. However, hospitals will be scrambling to replace the striking nurses and patients will be affected.
Patients who are scheduled for elective surgeries are already hearing from their providers that they will need to reschedule those procedures scheduled in the first few weeks of the strike. Many times patients have spent weeks, months or years scheduling these procedures. Additionally, people who come into understaffed hospitals ill or injured may find themselves in the Emergency Rooms for very long times waiting to be seen or waiting for a bed to open. In some cases they will be rerouted to other hospitals. Patients will be affected.

But not patient care. Operations get re-scheduled all the time. They can just push them till later in the strike when everybody gets into the new routine.
P T Bull

Hopkins, MN

#101 Jun 30, 2010
Control over nurse to patient levels is a form of union featherbedding. Its a way to force hospitals to employ more nurses. This is age old stuff--only the faces are different.

From wiki.
Featherbedding is the practice of hiring more workers than are needed to perform a given job, or to adopt work procedures which appear pointless, complex and time-consuming merely to employ additional workers.[1] The term "make-work" is sometimes used as a synonym for featherbedding.
Ms V

Saint Paul, MN

#102 Jul 1, 2010
boohoohoo wrote:
<quoted text>
Waaaaa! Poor you.
No, you missed the point. Many people work hard and still get screwed. No, not poor me - not at all. Unlike others, I know my strengths and weaknesses and don't have to put up facade of who I really am. I am quite happy in life, in spite of some things that have happened in the past. Fine, then, don't work at a union job, don't pay any taxes, don't expect any services because you obviously can provide your own infrastructure to survive. Now go away.

As for the nurses: Reagan fired all the air traffic controllers when they went out on strike. I don't think airlines are better for it. As much as I admired nurses and the profession, everyone is expendable and the management of the hospitals and the non-union public don't care about you. When there are inferiorly trained people taking your place, it will be interesting to see how those opposed to the nurses striking thinks about their lack of support then.

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