Christian group sues Shippensburg University over free speech

[Former Chambersburg Girl]

jtb~you say that the Bible is the inspired word of God...man was inspired by God to write it (your words but I agree with them)...however if you have millions of people (from Mennonites to Lutherans) reading the same words and interrupting them in different ways how can we say that one interruption is correct but another is wrong? Were you inspired to interrupt them better than me?

My interruption of the Bible is obviously different than yours yet I don't feel the need to tell you how you are going to hell in a handbasket.

[Carol1]

Andy, you are well read!!

Andy Johnson wrote:

Hell isn't even Judeo-Christian. It's Norse, from the goddess Hel, ruler of a region of Niflheim, the underworld, also called Hel.
Satan? That's Persian, originally Shaitan, the god of darkness, a borrowing from Zoroasterism. The Samaritans brought Shaitan back with them from their sojourn in the Babylonian heartland.
Bible infallible? You bet. It claims that arabs are descendants of Abraham's son, Ishmael. But arabs existed long before Abraham, who himself was a Semite, an arab. The Hebrews were a northern arab tribe who migrated out of the rapidly dessicating steppe-lands of the Arabian peninsula along with a lot of other Semite tribes, a migration that began around 10,000 years ago.
Eden? Found. It was an oasis in what is now Jordan, mentioned in Assyrian texts as a real place name.
Jesus? Samaritan jew, listed in the begats as a descendant of David, therefore claimant to the Judean throne occupied by the house of Herod, hence the attempt to kill him at birth by Herod, after receiving a diplomatic visit by the Magi, preists of Zoroaster and emissaries of the Persian king, asking to meet with the "true king of the Jews", a diplomatic slap-in-the-face to Herod's legitamicy as ruler.
Joseph is also listed as his father. He had several siblings, including an identical twin brother named Thomas. The Gospel of St. Thomas the Twin was left out of the Bible at the Council of Nicaea because having a twin brother kinda blows the immaculate conception myth out of the water. That in itself was borrowed from the Greek, when Zeus appeared to the mother of Theseus as a shower of gold and made her pregnant.
Resurrection? There were other religions, prior to and at the same time, with the exact same theme. Orpheus, Adonis, Isis, Mithras, all resurrection "mystery" religions offering eternal life, which the Jews themselves picked up from the Egyptians. Three of these were in active practice at the beginning of Christianity, the cults of Isis and Mithras being very popular in the Mediterranean reagion.
Jesus himself never died on the cross. Crucifixion is a slow lingering death that takes two or three days. Jesus was only up about eight hours, not anywhere long enough to kill a healthy man. He was also stabbed with a spear, in the left side, which can be a non-fatal wound because the vital organs are on the right side of the body. And there's been loads of cases of people being buried or entombed while still alive before modern medicine, because they appeared dead but weren't.
Bible the creation of God? Nope. Creation of the Roman Emperor Constantine and a council of bishops in the 3rd century AD, the books chosen for mainly political purposes, to cement the new religion more firmly with the Roman throne. That's why the Arians were declared heretics, because they were mainly outside the Roman Empire.
If you want to understand a religion, it's best to read the history it was born into and look at the context in which it was developed.

[Fireman]

And any of this has to do with Ship how?

[Former Chambersburg Girl]

it doesn't at all fireman...look at the other forums...jtb can interject his Christian hate message into any topic..and it is so funny that I can't help but feed into his ridiculous ideas.

[jtb]

Former Girl,
sure there are different beliefs on non-core issues.

But on the core issues, there is agreement.

But Unity Carol, mormons, Jehovah's witnesses, moonies, hindus, muslims, Budhists, don't agree on those 6 core beliefs.

to be a biblical christian, you must believe those 6 core fundamentals.

[Andy Johnson]

jtb wrote:

Poor poor andy, my brother, my friend my pal.
It really is a shame you're such a god hater. If you could get saved and put as much passion into the things of God, wow...
Instead you curse the god who gave you breathe and life.
You go right ahead...
As the phantom says in the phantom of the opera, "Make your choice".
It appears you've made it.

I'm not fond of Yahweh because he started off as a war god, like Ares or Odin. War gods like to make people hate each other, to stir up strife and get people to fighting amongst themselves. They detest peace and love, they hunger for death and destruction. Look at Israel, cursed forever to live in racism and hostility because it feeds the battle-lust of their war god.

I'm in full agreement with the Gnostics. Jesus is not the son of Yahweh, but the "God" which is the Universe. A god of love and compassion born from a war god, preaching for a war god? No. It was against the bigotries and elitism of Yahweh's preisthood that Jesus preached. It was they who crucified him, after he disrupted their temple.

I curse Constantine and his bishops. They took Jesus, nailed him back onto the cross, and forced him to be carried as a banner of warfare for the next 1700 years. Yahweh got his revenge. His religion spread, not Jesus'. The Gnostics were banned, their books rejected, Yahweh's laws of hatred made Christian gospel. The burnings, the tortures, the massacres....all feeding the war god, not following the god of peace.

I personally believe Christianity needs to evolve, to throw off the Old Testament, reject Yahweh and his war-mongering, and live purely within the message of Jesus. Then it will acheive it's true promise. Until then, it is just the toy of a war god, a means to keep people at each other's throats.

[Andy Johnson]

Fireman wrote:

And any of this has to do with Ship how?

I think this shows that those who preach a religious exclusivity are the essence of the group that is suing SU.

[jtb]

"religious exclusivity".

Sure biblical christianity is exclusive.

Jesus said, "I am the only way to god"

This means that if you, Andy my friend, think you are going to go to heaven because of anything other than through repentence and putting your full faith and trust in Jesus Christ, through the shedding of his blood on the cross and his resurrection, YOU ARE LOST.

Is that exclusive? You betcha.

Now that might not be the kind of christianity you're used to. But that is biblical christianity. Like it or lump it.

[Andy Johnson]

jtb wrote:

"religious exclusivity".
Sure biblical christianity is exclusive.
Jesus said, "I am the only way to god"
This means that if you, Andy my friend, think you are going to go to heaven because of anything other than through repentence and putting your full faith and trust in Jesus Christ, through the shedding of his blood on the cross and his resurrection, YOU ARE LOST.
Is that exclusive? You betcha.
Now that might not be the kind of christianity you're used to. But that is biblical christianity. Like it or lump it.

I'm not a Christian. I do not seek your Heaven. Jesus to me is just the greatest of the moral philsophers, but was not divine. I stopped believing that when I was about 14, after having been educated by many denominations, including Mennonite.

I have wandered the paths of spirituality and philosophy since then, and have had many ephinanies that would be denied to a "true believer" such as you. I am now what you would call a "pagan", since I now serve the goddess Freya, She who is Love. I have looked at all the religions, both past and present, have learned the nature of all the gods and goddesses, and in Her service I have found my true solace.

In the past, your kind would had me murdered by horrible means for just speaking any of this. The followers of Yahweh were particularly fond of persecuting the followers of the Goddess, as Yahweh demands the subservience of women. They were condemned as "witches", hunted down and murdered. His misogyny is legendary, as the Old Testament laws can attest. This is why women are treated as second-class in the more extremist sects, both in Judaism and Christianity. This is why Mary Magdelene was marginalized by the other Apostles and her gospel rejected from the Bible. This is why abortion and sexuality are detested by his followers. All because Yahweh sees women as the slaves of men and will not allow them to be treated as equals. Notice that the student group in question here requires a male to be their president.

As to what lies beyond this mortal coil, the core Taoist statement "The Way that can be known is not the Absolute Way." holds true. We know not what lies beyond and we will never know until we get there.

Until then, it's best we live our lives virtuously and with love for our world and all who reside within, no matter which god or goddess they choose to follow. The Golden Rule of Jesus is a good guide to live by, not because it's commanded of us, but because it's just plain good common sense.

[jtb]

I'm glad YHWH gave us a free will.

Just so you know, I was "saved" under a woman pastor.

The New Testament says there is neither greek nor jew, male nor female, slave nor free, as it relates to salvation.

God is not male or female, but is Spirit.

I guess I find it interesting that you would serve Freya instead of a more "traditional" religion, even buddhism or hinduism.

Did Freya go by another name. You say YHWH's followers persecuted Freya, when was this. I'm not a history buff, but I have a certain amount of knowledge.

One thing very interesting in the bible is that God, through the writers, never tried to conceal the faults, failures and sins of the followers of christ and/or God.

The whole book is filled with the failures of God's people.

Burning witches, the christian share of the crusades (the muslims were just as brutal if not more), and other atrocities are not a blight on God, but rather a blight on the people who, in the name of god, did horrible things.

The Old Testament deals with Israel as a nation.
The New Testament deals with "Spiritual" Israel as a holy nation, a holy people, and not a literal earth country.

The OT was a different "dispensation". Everything changed in the NT.

As for women being subservient, women aren't less important and men aren't more important or less or more loved by god.

The difference has to do with the roles men and women play in god's plan.

As for Mary Magdelene, she has gone down in history as one Jesus loved, in a spiritual sense.

Just read the stories. There is nothing marginalized about her at all. Oh my, Mary M. is looked up to as someone to be admired.

abortion is detested because it is the killing of an innocent human life.

Sexuality is not detested by YHWH's followers. It is a gift from God.

But homosexuality, fornication and adultery are detested because they are sin. And the man is just as much to blame as the woman.

Do you know how to tell if something is counterfeit?

Get to know the real very good. Then the counterfeit will be easily seen.

I shouldn't look to my pastor, mother, father, wife, husband, children, president, or any other person to find out who God is.

I go directly to the scriptures. People will always fall and disappoint us.

But if I look to the source of life, YHWH, and keep my eyes on him (using a human term), I can't go wrong.

[jtb]

And thanks for the intelligent civil conversation.

Not too many are willing to do that.

[AnonyMouse]

jtb wrote:

And thanks for the intelligent civil conversation.
Not too many are willing to do that.

Are you feeling okay? You didn't tell Andy that he's an enemy of God. You didn't tell him that he is going to hell. You didn't call him any names. You didn't tell him he belongs to a cult. You simply advocated your beliefs in a respectful tone. What's going on?

[Call them like I see them]

Carol1 wrote:

Call, How dare you!! You say nothing if your Evangelistic "friend" calls Unity a cult. Those good people who teach love and respect, but you want to jump me for saying a truth. Look how that person has trampled on Jesus, The Holy Bible, Love. You, by saying one thing to me, you are being not only a bigot, but a hypocrite. That pretend christian has bamboozled you into thinking they are teaching God's word, and if you would just stop your name callling long enough to read the tricks that thing is preaching, you would realize as most have. She/he is a liar
<quoted text>

Carol, I have told jtb to lay off of you.
I happen to be fundamental evangelical and I see no reason why you should be so insulting to those I worship with regularly. BTW how much has the freedom.from.religion.org donated to the recent cyclone and earthquake victims?
Take a gander at what the various fundamental evangelicals that are so nasty according to your outlook have given.
Maybe you would even care to compare that with the more liberal Christian denominations.
Sorry, Carol, I do not like to compare, but when you call the fundamentals or the evangelicals as not acting like Christian, you are posting the highest insult to Jesus that there is and it is a big fat lie.
Now you state boldly that jtb is telling a lie and is not practicing Christianity.
I ask you to point out one lie that jtb has put in the forum.
Do you believe that Jesus is a liar and he was just showing his bigotry when he told the crowds the words in
Mathew 22:8-14.
Do you believe he is accepting all or is he lying when he told the crowd the words Mathew 7:13,14.
I may not agree entirely with jtb's style, but what is being said is truth and when you say it is a lie, unless you can show me something that I missed, you then become the liar.
Sure I do not bang against jtb. I have said in every topix subject, I am not out to be popular, but I will point out the lies and I will always attempt to be truthful. jtb may be a little hard line, but there is no untruthfulness that I have seen.

[Call them like I see them]

Andy Johnson wrote:

<quoted text>
I think this shows that those who preach a religious exclusivity are the essence of the group that is suing SU.

Actually it shows that if Christians do not stand up for what is right, people like you would run rough shod over them.
I am willing to bet that you knew nothing about this till the article was in the newspaper and you probably still do not know the entire story, but you had to throw your crap out about those who practice their religion because you will do all that you legally can to bash the righteous.
You are the type of people that Christians must constantly be on their guard against, as you would throw Christians in prison if you could find a legal means of doing so.
The action of this club has no effect on you or your family, but you would think with your posts that you were being unmercifully attacked by the Christian group at SHIP.

[jtb]

Anymouse,
Andy is not a fake. Andy was able to articulately explain, in part, what his/her beliefs are. Andy isn't using christianeze but believing something so anti-biblical.

Andy is plain and truthful, at least as he/she understands truth. Andy doesn't hold some nice feeling within that he/she is pleasing YHWH God.

Former Girlfriend, Unity Carol and you (at least in part), are unwilling to divulge what you believe about God, the bible, salvation, etc.

I believe Andy is totally wrong. YHWH is the true God and just as Dagon fell on his face in front of the God of Israel, so will Freya.

Andy was well aware that I don't hold to any of his "gospel", yet he/she took the time to explain it and I'd love to have a conversation.

But Former Girlfriend and Unity just scream and yell and use all kind of verbal attacks when I ask them a simple question. And you're not that far behind them.

According to Former Girlfriend, if she told me what she believes I'd do nothing but tear it apart.

Of course I would try to find out why she calls herself a christian but denies the cores fundamentals of scripture.

But as you can see with andy, I like to converse and discuss different ideas.

But I believe former girlfriend and Unity carol to be fakes. And as such they have no reason for their belief. Andy has a reason for his/her belief. Again, I believe Andy to be wrong, but at least he/she had the guts and backbone to speak forth what he/she believes

[Carol1]

Call, I do not interpet the Bible word for word, I think I told you I interpet, Metaphysically, but word for word would be easier in this case. Jesus is saying the ones who were invited are the ones like the inittialed one, and by harassing and not showing loving kindness to others, she is without her spiritual clothes, and is mocking what is holy. Matt.7, He is saying, those who know the truth, must at all times, even in Topix, never, scorn or belittle those that we feel are not the Sheep of the Master's Flock. Why, because the way is narrow, and we will be held accountable for pushing them into the wide way.
You, Call should know if your an Evangelist, you can't belittle anothers belief or unbelief. You have to hold your self and others "above the wide roads" You should, since the inittialed one seems to hear your voice instruct her in the next verses of Matt. 7, they seem to speak of her:
15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
21"Not everyone who says to me,'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day,'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly,'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!
Peace

[jtb]

Call them,
Unity is a cult and you know it. I just find it difficult to allow the lies of the enemy to go unconfronted.

[Call them like I see them]

Andy Johnson wrote:

Hell isn't even Judeo-Christian..........
Bible infallible? You bet. It claims that arabs are descendants of Abraham's son, Ishmael. But arabs existed long before Abraham, who himself was a Semite, an arab..........
Joseph is also listed as his father. He had several siblings, including an identical twin brother named Thomas. The Gospel of St. Thomas the Twin was left out of the Bible at the Council of Nicaea because having a twin brother kinda blows the immaculate conception myth out of the water. That in itself was borrowed from the Greek, when Zeus appeared to the mother of Theseus as a shower of gold and made her pregnant.
Resurrection? There were other religions, prior to and at the same time, with the exact same theme. Orpheus, Adonis, Isis, Mithras, all resurrection "mystery" religions offering eternal life, which the Jews themselves picked up from the Egyptians. Three of these were in active practice at the beginning of Christianity, the cults of Isis and Mithras being very popular in the Mediterranean reagion.
Jesus himself never died on the cross. Crucifixion is a slow lingering death that takes two or three days. Jesus was only up about eight hours, not anywhere long enough to kill a healthy man. He was also stabbed with a spear, in the left side, which can be a non-fatal wound because the vital organs are on the right side of the body. And there's been loads of cases of people being buried or entombed while still alive before modern medicine, because they appeared dead but weren't.
Bible the creation of God? Nope. Creation of the Roman Emperor Constantine and a council of bishops in the 3rd century AD, the books chosen for mainly political purposes, to cement the new religion more firmly with the Roman throne. That's why the Arians were declared heretics, because they were mainly outside the Roman Empire.
If you want to understand a religion, it's best to read the history it was born into and look at the context in which it was developed.

What is your problem?
You have to lie about, attempt to degrade, bash with non-facts the Christian religion.
For what reason except to show off your stupidity. You know nothing concerning the Hebrew genealogy as we can see by the many errors that you posted. One that is very obvious is that the Arabs are listed as the sons of Ishmael which is totally a false statement. Nor was Abraham an Arab as you proclaim. The Arabs and the Jews are both descendents of Eber who is the father of the Hebrews and most Arabs will proudly say they are Hebrew.
How would Joseph having a twin brother (which is another case of fiction) do away with the immaculate conception since Joseph had nothing to do with the conception.
You say the God of darkness came from the Samaritans travel into Babylon, yet it was when Abraham lived in the land of Ur, which is Babylon, that the Babylon copied and messed up much of the Hebrew History.
They have a story of the flood that has an ark built in the shape of a cube, which would roll in any direction and kill the occupants, to show one way they have totally messed up the Bible story.
Maybe you should quit believing all the fairy tales you have heard about the Bible, and actually study it before you show how little you know.

[Carol1]

Call, I forgot to say, I had read this quote some time ago, and we should all remember this:

"You can shoot arrows at the sky if you like, My son, but they’ll inevitably fall back to earth.”

The reason forgivness is so important, it truly does nothing for the person you are forgiving. It is only the person who does the forgiving that reaps benefit, and it doesn't really matter if we shoot guns, bows or our mouths off, inevitably it will come back to haunt us.
Peace

[Call them like I see them]

Carol1 wrote:

Call, I do not interpet the Bible word for word, I think I told you I interpet, Metaphysically, but word for word would be easier in this case. Jesus is saying the ones who were invited are the ones like the inittialed one, and by harassing and not showing loving kindness to others, she is without her spiritual clothes, and is mocking what is holy. Matt.7, He is saying, those who know the truth, must at all times, even in Topix, never, scorn or belittle those that we feel are not the Sheep of the Master's Flock. Why, because the way is narrow, and we will be held accountable for pushing them into the wide way.
You, Call should know if your an Evangelist, you can't belittle anothers belief or unbelief. You have to hold your self and others "above the wide roads" You should, since the inittialed one seems to hear your voice instruct her in the next verses of Matt. 7, they seem to speak of her:
15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
21"Not everyone who says to me,'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day,'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly,'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!
Peace

Carol, you say that you interpret the Bible metaphysically. Do you realize that this is a direct contradiction of what the Bible teaches.
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
(John 4:24, KJV)
Sorry, but you start off going down the wrong slope and now you are headed right off the perimeter into the never ending fall. If you study the Bible spiritually as God gave it to you, then you will quit pounding on the evangelicals and the fundamentals because God will be controlling your actions.
That is what jtb has been attempting to tell you. You must let God be in control through the belief in Jesus as God the Son, and under the power of God the Holy Spirit. Your fruits show that you are letting Carol be the controlling factor.