Gay couples hope legislation makes Ha...

Gay couples hope legislation makes Hawaii first Western state w...

There are 16148 comments on the The Morning Call story from Feb 22, 2009, titled Gay couples hope legislation makes Hawaii first Western state w.... In it, The Morning Call reports that:

Hawaii , the state that adopted the nation's first "defense of marriage" constitutional amendment a decade ago, has now become the latest battleground in the fight for same-sex civil unions.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Morning Call.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#16733 Oct 31, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
You have said it. I just pointed out how stupid it is and you are embarrassed.
A childless hetero couple have rare medical conditions. The mutual sterility of ss couples is evidence of a mating behavior defect.
The fact that you are trying to equate the two shows either extreme deceit or immense stupidity.
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>NO a childless hetero couple doesn't have to have a medical condition. Many are childless by choice. Their marriage is still valid in your scheme of things.
You keep digging yourself deeper and deeper into your hole.
Twirl on.
I've never excluded the choice. Neither has any society IN ALL OF HUMAN HISTORY for that matter! LOL!

Never been a problem, and hardly 'my scheme of things'! It is historic practice.

It still is VASTLY different from the 100% mutual sterility of ss couples.

And it still exposes the mating behavior sexual defect of ss couples who are trying to equate to the what? The very act of mating behavior!

Utter idiocy!

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#16734 Oct 31, 2013
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>Thank you for clarifying my point that ALL of Kimare's reasons for opposing SSM are based on double standards.
Kimare wants to make the birth of a child the definition of a valid marriage. If that were the case NO HETERO marriage would be valid UNTIL a child is born.
Of course Kimare hasn't factored in the chance that said child could be the result of infidelity on the part of the wife.
Kimare simply refuses to accept the fact that in this day and age, marriage isn't just about producing a viable heir.
Kimare reduces what to me is a sacred pact between two people (marriage) to the base level of a puppy mill breeding program.
He blithely demeans every marriage with his insistence that it's all about making babies. He refuses to admit that a marriage of two men or two women who bring their biological children from previous relationships isn't much different than the marriage of heteros who do the same.
He refuses to admit that under his model, a hetero couple who has not produced a child is not valid, unless there is a valid medical reason for it (infertility). That ignores those hetero couples who just got married and haven't produced a child, as well as those couples who have decided not to have children.
His premise has more holes than baby bell swiss cheese.
That's funny. Name one country at any time in human history that invalidated a marriage because the couple did not procreate.

One. That's all. In ALL of human history.

I don't have to 'require' something that happens naturally.

Nor do all the things that identify a unique relationship have to be present in the moment, or all be present at all, to still define a distinct relationship.

Here is just a sampling of those distinctions;

Marriage is a miraculous union of two genders,
a union so profound,
it is described as the union of Mars and Venus.
It reunites humanity to the roots of life,
while at the very same time
hosting the best and natural
birth place of future human life.
It is the blend of masculinity and femininity.
The wisdom of logic and intuition united.
Strength and delicacy perfectly balanced.
Protection and nurture combined as one.
A complimentary merging that multiplies the unbiased blend of humanity's genders.

A ss couple cannot equate to a single one of these distinctions.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#16735 Oct 31, 2013
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>Being gay or lesbian has no relation to fertility. Once again you are ignoring the vast number of gay and lesbian couples who have biological children from previous relationships.
<quoted text>Yet you insist that fertility is the basis for a valid marriage.
<quoted text>Yet your statement that, "every culture has childless married couples without issue." contradicts what you just said.
<quoted text>Aside from the gender issue, and the fertility issue, SSM DOES fulfill all the other points you bring up.
Like it or not Kimare, ALL of your arguments against SSM lack validity.
1. Why do you not have the integrity to be honest in this discussion? I specifically did NOT ignore the ability of homosexuals to procreate OUTSIDE their natural orientation. You deliberately lied.

2. Again you lie. I have stated, with scientific accuracy, that at it's most basic essence, marriage is a constraint on evolutionary mating behavior. Nor have I limited the identity of marriage to just the normal, natural probability of procreation. There are numerous distinctions in the relationship of marriage.

3. Childless married couples does not invalidate the basic essence of marriage. Hence your inability to provide even ONE example of a country that disqualified childless couples from marriage.

4. If you think ss couples fulfill the distinctions I list, be specific. You only present an unvalidated opinion.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#16736 Oct 31, 2013
KiMare wrote:
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
You have said it. I just pointed out how stupid it is and you are embarrassed.
A childless hetero couple have rare medical conditions. The mutual sterility of ss couples is evidence of a mating behavior defect.
The fact that you are trying to equate the two shows either extreme deceit or immense stupidity.
<quoted text>
I've never excluded the choice. Neither has any society IN ALL OF HUMAN HISTORY for that matter! LOL!
Never been a problem, and hardly 'my scheme of things'! It is historic practice.
It still is VASTLY different from the 100% mutual sterility of ss couples.
And it still exposes the mating behavior sexual defect of ss couples who are trying to equate to the what? The very act of mating behavior!
Utter idiocy!
Wow. As a minister you once again reduce the Holy institution of Marriage to nothing more than "Bless us father so we can F*CK without guilt".

You reduce an action of love and commitment to the level of dogs in puppy mills.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php...

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#16737 Oct 31, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
That's funny. Name one country at any time in human history that invalidated a marriage because the couple did not procreate.
One. That's all. In ALL of human history.
I don't have to 'require' something that happens naturally.
Nor do all the things that identify a unique relationship have to be present in the moment, or all be present at all, to still define a distinct relationship.
Here is just a sampling of those distinctions;
Marriage is a miraculous union of two genders,
a union so profound,
it is described as the union of Mars and Venus.
It reunites humanity to the roots of life,
while at the very same time
hosting the best and natural
birth place of future human life.
It is the blend of masculinity and femininity.
The wisdom of logic and intuition united.
Strength and delicacy perfectly balanced.
Protection and nurture combined as one.
A complimentary merging that multiplies the unbiased blend of humanity's genders.
A ss couple cannot equate to a single one of these distinctions.
SSM is also the blend of masculinity and femininity!

Your focus on penises and vagina ignores the fact that masculinity and femininity have little to do with body parts. Even in language their are masculine and feminine words that have no bearing on human body parts.

Since today is Halloween I have to say if Zombies come to your door today looking for brains.......

your safe!

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#16738 Oct 31, 2013
oops. You're safe from hungry zombies Kimare

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#16739 Oct 31, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Why do you not have the integrity to be honest in this discussion? I specifically did NOT ignore the ability of homosexuals to procreate OUTSIDE their natural orientation. You deliberately lied.
My pointing out the similarities between heteros and gays with biological children is not lying. However you calling me a liar over it shows your dishonesty very clearly.
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>2. Again you lie. I have stated, with scientific accuracy, that at it's most basic essence, marriage is a constraint on evolutionary mating behavior. Nor have I limited the identity of marriage to just the normal, natural probability of procreation. There are numerous distinctions in the relationship of marriage.
And again, my using your own "numerous distinctions in the relationship of marriage" as they relate to hetero as well as homosexual marriages is not lying. And again to claim it's a lie illustrates your attempt at deliberate deception.
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>3. Childless married couples does not invalidate the basic essence of marriage. Hence your inability to provide even ONE example of a country that disqualified childless couples from marriage.
Once again you lie. I never said that any country denied the validity of marriage of childless couples. I have however shown that your "genetic defect" idea DID in fact ban the marriages of people with disabilities.
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>4. If you think ss couples fulfill the distinctions I list, be specific. You only present an unvalidated opinion.
and again the Minister Greg lies.

Unvalidated opinion? Then explain why SCOTUS agreed with me in both the Prop 8 case and the Windsor decision. You can't.

Checkmate!

LMAO

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#16740 Oct 31, 2013
SSM:
a union so profound,
it is described as the union of Mars and Venus.
It reunites humanity to the roots of life,
while at the very same time
hosting the best and natural
birth place of future human life.
It is the blend of masculinity and femininity.
The wisdom of logic and intuition united.
Strength and delicacy perfectly balanced.
Protection and nurture combined as one.
A complimentary merging that multiplies the unbiased blend of humanity's genders.

Kimares own words betray him!

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#16741 Oct 31, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
You have said it. I just pointed out how stupid it is and you are embarrassed.
A childless hetero couple have rare medical conditions. The mutual sterility of ss couples is evidence of a mating behavior defect.
The fact that you are trying to equate the two shows either extreme deceit or immense stupidity.
<quoted text>
I've never excluded the choice. Neither has any society IN ALL OF HUMAN HISTORY for that matter! LOL!
Never been a problem, and hardly 'my scheme of things'! It is historic practice.
It still is VASTLY different from the 100% mutual sterility of ss couples.
And it still exposes the mating behavior sexual defect of ss couples who are trying to equate to the what? The very act of mating behavior!
Utter idiocy!
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>Wow. As a minister you once again reduce the Holy institution of Marriage to nothing more than "Bless us father so we can F*CK without guilt".
You reduce an action of love and commitment to the level of dogs in puppy mills.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php...
LOL,

Now you sound like Obama trying to get out of his lies...

Please, specifically, tell us how you came to that conclusion from what I said in answer to your post.

Waiting...

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#16742 Oct 31, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
That's funny. Name one country at any time in human history that invalidated a marriage because the couple did not procreate.
One. That's all. In ALL of human history.
I don't have to 'require' something that happens naturally.
Nor do all the things that identify a unique relationship have to be present in the moment, or all be present at all, to still define a distinct relationship.
Here is just a sampling of those distinctions;
Marriage is a miraculous union of two genders,
a union so profound,
it is described as the union of Mars and Venus.
It reunites humanity to the roots of life,
while at the very same time
hosting the best and natural
birth place of future human life.
It is the blend of masculinity and femininity.
The wisdom of logic and intuition united.
Strength and delicacy perfectly balanced.
Protection and nurture combined as one.
A complimentary merging that multiplies the unbiased blend of humanity's genders.
A ss couple cannot equate to a single one of these distinctions.
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>SSM is also the blend of masculinity and femininity!
Your focus on penises and vagina ignores the fact that masculinity and femininity have little to do with body parts. Even in language their are masculine and feminine words that have no bearing on human body parts.
Since today is Halloween I have to say if Zombies come to your door today looking for brains.......
your safe!
Did you dye your hair blonde and start drinking tonight?

Two guys are a blend of masculinity and femininity?

Where did I tie penis' and vagina's with masculinity and femininity?

Nor does any of your response deal with the main point of my post;

Explain why not one single country in history has ever negated the marriage of childless couples?

Waiting...

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#16743 Oct 31, 2013
Ignore an idiot and he'll claim that by ignoring him he's right.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#16744 Oct 31, 2013
KiMare wrote:
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
You have said it. I just pointed out how stupid it is and you are embarrassed.
A childless hetero couple have rare medical conditions. The mutual sterility of ss couples is evidence of a mating behavior defect.
The fact that you are trying to equate the two shows either extreme deceit or immense stupidity.
<quoted text>
I've never excluded the choice. Neither has any society IN ALL OF HUMAN HISTORY for that matter! LOL!
Never been a problem, and hardly 'my scheme of things'! It is historic practice.
It still is VASTLY different from the 100% mutual sterility of ss couples.
And it still exposes the mating behavior sexual defect of ss couples who are trying to equate to the what? The very act of mating behavior!
Utter idiocy!
<quoted text>
LOL,
Now you sound like Obama trying to get out of his lies...
Please, specifically, tell us how you came to that conclusion from what I said in answer to your post.
Waiting...
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>Wow. As a minister you once again reduce the Holy institution of Marriage to nothing more than "Bless us father so we can F*CK without guilt".
You reduce an action of love and commitment to the level of dogs in puppy mills.

KiMare wrote:<quoted text>
Please, specifically, tell us how you came to that conclusion from what I said in answer to your post.

KiMare wrote:<quoted text>It still is VASTLY different from the 100% mutual sterility of ss couples.
And it still exposes the mating behavior sexual defect of ss couples who are trying to equate to the what? The very act of mating behavior!

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#16745 Oct 31, 2013
KiMare wrote:
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
That's funny. Name one country at any time in human history that invalidated a marriage because the couple did not procreate.
One. That's all. In ALL of human history.
I don't have to 'require' something that happens naturally.
Nor do all the things that identify a unique relationship have to be present in the moment, or all be present at all, to still define a distinct relationship.
Here is just a sampling of those distinctions;
Marriage is a miraculous union of two genders,
a union so profound,
it is described as the union of Mars and Venus.
It reunites humanity to the roots of life,
while at the very same time
hosting the best and natural
birth place of future human life.
It is the blend of masculinity and femininity.
The wisdom of logic and intuition united.
Strength and delicacy perfectly balanced.
Protection and nurture combined as one.
A complimentary merging that multiplies the unbiased blend of humanity's genders.
A ss couple cannot equate to a single one of these distinctions.
<quoted text>
Did you dye your hair blonde and start drinking tonight?
Two guys are a blend of masculinity and femininity?
Where did I tie penis' and vagina's with masculinity and femininity?
Nor does any of your response deal with the main point of my post;
Explain why not one single country in history has ever negated the marriage of childless couples?
Waiting...
I never claimed that the marriage of a childless couple was ever negated by any country.

It is you that is using the failure to reproduce as the reason to negate valid marriages.

“Live and let live”

Since: Apr 08

New Orleans

#16746 Oct 31, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
That does often happen. It didn't happen to me.
Well you are lucky on two fronts- one, you were not assigned a gender that was not your own, and what gender you have is in congruence with the gender you are attracted to. Not so with me. I am outwardly 100% male, but inside I have a region of my brain that is of the opposite gender and that makes me attracted to men. This is science, which you said you don't ignore. Well? Do you think it is fair and just still that people like us who are denied rights for who we are? In some way intersexed? Do you think it is fair that those kids without consent were assigned a body gende incomparable with that of their brain and denied the right to marry their beloved as a result of some doctor's decision? In my case, it was pure nature. You are lucky, but just being lucky shouldn't translate into having a privilege others do not have. You're also lucky that you can procreate. It is more likely with intersexed people that thy cannot.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#16747 Oct 31, 2013
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>I never claimed that the marriage of a childless couple was ever negated by any country.
It is you that is using the failure to reproduce as the reason to negate valid marriages.
Got some gay twirl back step going honey...

You foolishly and futilely attempted to claim that married couples who are childless because of CHOICE, or a medical condition must have their marriages invalidated.

I simply pointed out that those exceptions have NEVER been a problem, and always were accepted. I challenged you to name just one country where marriages were rescinded because the couple was childless.

Which brings us back to this fundamental reality;

At it's most basic essence, marriage is a cross cultural constraint on evolutionary mating behavior.

Ss couples are a 100% defective failure of mating behavior making ss marriage a clear oxymoron.

“Live and let live”

Since: Apr 08

New Orleans

#16748 Oct 31, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
That does often happen. It didn't happen to me.
Also, you avoided my question, which in such a context is rather valid. Do you think intersexed kids designated a gender that is not their own should suffer the consequences of not being allowed to marry the person he or she loves?

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#16749 Oct 31, 2013
Josh in New Orleans wrote:
<quoted text>
Well you are lucky on two fronts- one, you were not assigned a gender that was not your own, and what gender you have is in congruence with the gender you are attracted to. Not so with me. I am outwardly 100% male, but inside I have a region of my brain that is of the opposite gender and that makes me attracted to men. This is science, which you said you don't ignore. Well? Do you think it is fair and just still that people like us who are denied rights for who we are? In some way intersexed? Do you think it is fair that those kids without consent were assigned a body gende incomparable with that of their brain and denied the right to marry their beloved as a result of some doctor's decision? In my case, it was pure nature. You are lucky, but just being lucky shouldn't translate into having a privilege others do not have. You're also lucky that you can procreate. It is more likely with intersexed people that thy cannot.
Are you intersexed or homosexual?

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#16750 Oct 31, 2013
Josh in New Orleans wrote:
<quoted text>
Also, you avoided my question, which in such a context is rather valid. Do you think intersexed kids designated a gender that is not their own should suffer the consequences of not being allowed to marry the person he or she loves?
It is a difficult question that I have not reached a conclusion on, except for the core principle that marriage is between a man and a woman.

That's because it is possible now to surgically identify with your inner gender. However, my understanding is, that many of those who take that option are still not happy with the results.

“Live and let live”

Since: Apr 08

New Orleans

#16751 Oct 31, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay, I took a step back.
There is still a vast difference between a rare medical condition and a sexual orientation that is 100% sterile within it's nature.
Moreover, every culture has childless married couples without issue.
This is the fundamental difference, at it's most basic essence, marriage is a cross cultural constraint on evolutionary mating behavior. Ss couples are a defective failure of mating behavior.
Okay then, let's take another step back. First, every culture has homosexual people without incidence with exception to violation of cultural norms. In fact, there are numerous examples of cultures that do not reject homosexual people, but rather, they embrace us- as is the case with two-spirits among Native Americans. Some cultures consider that stepping out of the procreative process effectively means that we are living our last life before the end of reincarnation. In any case, if we are a 100% evolutionary failure, then why does nature not only produce us, but produces homosexuality in virtually every single species on Earth ranging from fruit flies to whales? The answer? I think it's because of the procreative F-ups of a species. We're a form of natural population control, and in a social species like ours, offspring are not the only way our genes get passed on. When heterosexual are popping out so many children left and right that nobody can take care of them, homosexual individuals in the group are in a fact providing for their fellow tribe members, while not contributing to the problem. That said, what genetic and hereditary studies of gay people there are do suggest the tendency comes out of a maternal lineage, and therefore, our genes are not passed on directly, but through the survival of our siblings. Need another non-human example? Gay-male penguins adopt abandoned eggs. We are here to take care of the F-ups of our heterosexual counterparts!!!
KiMare wrote:
But that is not the only distinction. Here are just a few of many significant ones;
Marriage is a miraculous union of two genders,
a union so profound,
it is described as the union of Mars and Venus.
It reunites humanity to the roots of life,
while at the very same time
hosting the best and natural
birth place of future human life.
Oh cut the shit. Marriage is no guarantee of producing a healthy happy family at all. I ran into a married couple on the street a couple of days ago. They were begging for change, and thank God they have no kids, but countless children are born into families all the time who are either unwilling or incapable of taking care of them. Take off all the sentimental BS, and you'll see an ugly truth. Marriage is no guarantee that children will grow up in "the best and natural
birth place of future human life". Utter poppycock!!!
KiMare wrote:
It is the blend of masculinity and femininity.
So are we. Both sides of gender are represented often half and half and like heterosexuals, we are whole when united with our spouse.
KiMare wrote:
The wisdom of logic and intuition united.
Strength and delicacy perfectly balanced.
Protection and nurture combined as one.
A complimentary merging that multiplies the unbiased blend of humanity's genders.
Again, we often represent the same... I.e. fems + masculine, blended + blended
KiMare wrote:
A ss couple cannot equate to a single one of these distinctions.
Well guess what, we do relate, but we also equate. It's only a matter of time before the last vestiges of discrimination against us disappear into the history books. It's already happening.

“Live and let live”

Since: Apr 08

New Orleans

#16752 Oct 31, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you intersexed or homosexual?
Both. Homosexual people, as has been recently discovered and conclusively proven, we have structural differences in our brains and in the activity centers that are identical to that of the opposite gender. Would you like a link to some of the research? How about a picture of what our brains look like under an FMRI in comparison to the opposite sex?

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