Thousands Protest Roe V. Wade Decision

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Thousands of abortion opponents marched from the National Mall to the Supreme Court on Tuesday in their annual remembrance of the court's Roe v. Wade decision. Full Story

“Reality is better than truth.”

Since: Nov 09

Indianapolis

#321538 Feb 3, 2014
The fetus, just like a DNA sample from a corpse belongs to the corpse. When you take a sample, you note where it came from. DNA tests don't differentiate between origin sources or note if the source is living or dead.
No Relativism wrote:
<quoted text>
On a separate note, I have a question for you:
When a DNA sample from the in utero human is sent off to a DNA lab, WHOSE DNA does the sample belong to?
Ink

Levittown, PA

#321539 Feb 3, 2014
cpeter1313 wrote:
He'd have a better understanding of her wishes than the state could. Not to mention that her pregnancy in no way overrode her right to her own wishes.
<quoted text>
It is unlikely that they would have had that discussion. Having had several children, I never mentioned to my husband that I would want to be taken off life support if my unborn child's life depended on it. I don't think that is a conversation spouses have even though in passing you might say you don't want to be kept alive if there is no hope for your recovery. Giving your child a chance to live is another story.
VoteVets Org

New York, NY

#321540 Feb 3, 2014
grumpy wrote:
<quoted text>One more time.
Is a cancer a distinct human being? Its cells differentiate apart from the mother.
One more time.....no.
Cancer cells are mutated normal cells whose DNA is readily distinguishable from normal cells due to its unique characteristics. DNA samples are not taken blindly in a vacuum. Their origin is known, that is, it is known if they were taken from a tumor or from a living fetus. DNA taken from a living, developing human fetus would only confirm a unique genetic code different from its mother, thereby confirming it as a developing human individual distinct from its mother.
I hope this is the last time you ask this stupid question. It was stupid the first time you asked it and repetition has not diminished its stupidity.
Ink

Levittown, PA

#321541 Feb 3, 2014
John-K wrote:
<quoted text>
Evening "Ink."
My apologies...I was thinking that since you replied that, "you can still have an abortion," you either didn't want to think about the accumulated restrictions that are being enacted, or didn't realize that this is what "N-A-P" and the others were referring to.
I was not trying to be dismissive, or diminish your position.
I'm not sure I agree with your assertion of "abortion on demand," but I know that that's become the "rallying cry" of those who oppose abortion for any reason whatsoever.
Truth be told, we don't really "know" why women choose to have an abortion because, thankfully, that's not a requirement for obtaining one.
I do, however, agree with your observation that "we'll probably end up in the middle somewhere."
Yes I do realize that there are restrictions and that may end up being the 'middle ground'.

Unrestricted abortion including sec and third trimester is becomming less palatable to even folks who call themselves pro choice.
VoteVets Org

New York, NY

#321542 Feb 3, 2014
not a playa1965 wrote:
<quoted text>I answered, now what?
Here's one for you: What is your position on the disposal and / or consignment to cryogenic hell, of the human embryos not selected for implantation, during the process of In-vitro Fertilization?
Are those doctors and parents murderers too?
Mass murderers?
Premeditated murderers?
Or are petri dishes just not as much fun to control as wombs???
Don't bother answering that IVF question, Scarlett. I did. And because the hypocrisy she had hoped for and the "gotcha" moment she anticipated were not manifested in my response, she ignored. She hasn't an ounce of credibility.

“Reality is better than truth.”

Since: Nov 09

Indianapolis

#321543 Feb 3, 2014
They don't have to discuss permutations or parameters; knowing she didn't want to be on life support was enough for the husband, as guardian, to protect her wishes. You're making presumptions without even knowing her.
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
It is unlikely that they would have had that discussion. Having had several children, I never mentioned to my husband that I would want to be taken off life support if my unborn child's life depended on it. I don't think that is a conversation spouses have even though in passing you might say you don't want to be kept alive if there is no hope for your recovery. Giving your child a chance to live is another story.

“Truly Pro-Life”

Since: Nov 11

Proudly Pro-choice

#321544 Feb 3, 2014
VoteVets Org wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't bother answering that IVF question, Scarlett. I did. And because the hypocrisy she had hoped for and the "gotcha" moment she anticipated were not manifested in my response, she ignored. She hasn't an ounce of credibility.
Where did you answer that question?

The only person so far, who has had the gumption to give a response, was the IW RS/Lisa poster.

I take it you're in favor of criminalizing IVF, as well as abortion, and for the same reasons?

“Truly Pro-Life”

Since: Nov 11

Proudly Pro-choice

#321545 Feb 3, 2014
Long Night Moon 13 wrote:
<quoted text>
"You people make me laugh. Many of you have gone out of your way to point out that you don't care, nor should anyone else care what happens to their mortal remains once they are gone. Even going so far as to make little of and joking about the rituals others go through as a means of showing respect to such remains. Now your sympathy and concern over the treatment of a woman who is already dead rings oh so hollow."
I stopped reading after this because, since you're addressing me then you should show where I have ever done this...then we can continue this conversation.
I take people's funereal rituals seriously so show anywhere that I have joked about this.
I've been frustrated enough by conversations on the abortion threads, that I have several times been guilty of joking about mortal remains....but then again, having lost 6 pregnancies, and birthed / raised two children, I feel the need sometimes for a little black humor. And my fuse is short enough, occasionally, that I get it at someone else's expense. Hell, even numbnuts you're replying to up there, laughed about it.... ;-)

But I can definitely attest to the fact that I don't remember you doing the same....I suspect our friend, the IBS/Lisa poster, is obliquely referring to the fact that you didn't chastise me for it, or some similar thing she finds irritating.

Maybe she needs a good shagging...

As has been said before, laughter is the best medicine. And they certainly don't mind

“Truly Pro-Life”

Since: Nov 11

Proudly Pro-choice

#321546 Feb 3, 2014
taking that medicine, as IBS/Lisa can readily attest.

“Truly Pro-Life”

Since: Nov 11

Proudly Pro-choice

#321547 Feb 3, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes I do realize that there are restrictions and that may end up being the 'middle ground'.
Unrestricted abortion including sec and third trimester is becomming less palatable to even folks who call themselves pro choice.
Middle ground?

Middle ground would be having left Roe V Wade as the last law written on abortion in this country. It provides for everything necessary to the 'question' of whether or not a woman has the right to a safe and sterile abortion: Legalizing and regulating the procedure, for the safety of the patient undergoing the procedure, are all that are necessary for women to exercise their civil right to equal protection under the law.

Palatable?

Why should anyone's medical decisions need to be 'palatable' to someone else?

If I found your rhinoplasty, or your boob job 'unpalatable', should my offense be a basis for laws against boob and nose jobs?

I find Rick Santorum's family cuddling with am aborted fetus, and posing their living children for photographs with a corpse, as political fodder , HIGHLY unpalatable....but should that be made illegal, just because a vast number of people think it's gross?

I don't think it should be illegal...I just wouldn't do it.

See how that works?

“Truly Pro-Life”

Since: Nov 11

Proudly Pro-choice

#321548 Feb 3, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
It is unlikely that they would have had that discussion. Having had several children, I never mentioned to my husband that I would want to be taken off life support if my unborn child's life depended on it. I don't think that is a conversation spouses have even though in passing you might say you don't want to be kept alive if there is no hope for your recovery. Giving your child a chance to live is another story.
There you go again, asserting that it's ALL ABOUT YOU and YOUR experiences.

It is unlikely that women wake up in the last trimester of pregnancy, and just 'have an abortion' on a whim, too...but because it's theoretically POSSIBLE, you'd like to criminalize later term abortion.

What's good for the goose....and if ANYONE ever fit that bill it's you, Inkubator.
Ink

Levittown, PA

#321549 Feb 4, 2014
cpeter1313 wrote:
They don't have to discuss permutations or parameters; knowing she didn't want to be on life support was enough for the husband, as guardian, to protect her wishes. You're making presumptions without even knowing her.
<quoted text>
And so are you. She may have been a mother who wanted to give her child a fighting chance.

“Shoot for the stars”

Since: Dec 10

Planet Earth

#321550 Feb 4, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
And so are you. She may have been a mother who wanted to give her child a fighting chance.
To give a child a chance who also had severe brain damage from lack of oxygen. Do you think it's fair to the remaining family to take on the responsibility mentally, physically and financially of a severely brain damaged child? Do you really thinks it's fair to the other sibling to be forced to take on the responsibility of a brain damaged brother or sister once family members become too old, sick and also start passing away? What if he wants to go to college, get married and start his own family? Should he have to forfeit part of his life or the future life of a spouse for the responsibility of a brain damaged adult sibling he didn't ask for? You're not considering the lives of other people who are affected and their quality of life. You're just looking at a baby and not taking into account that baby is going to be a severly brain damaged adult.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#321551 Feb 4, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
And so are you. She may have been a mother who wanted to give her child a fighting chance.
Nonsense. What he is doing is saying that her husband knew her better than anyone else. YOU, on the other hand, Arrogant One, are speculating based upon your own wants.

BTW, there was no "fighting chance" to be had, as the doctors clearly stated. It wasn't a doctor who decided she should be kept alive, but hospital ADMINISTRATORS, afraid of being sued later. It wasn't done for medical reasons, but financial.
No Relativism

Huntington, IN

#321552 Feb 4, 2014
grumpy wrote:
<quoted text>One more time.
Is a cancer a distinct human being? Its cells differentiate apart from the mother.
grumpy: "One more time. Is a cancer a distinct human being? Its cells differentiate apart from the mother."

One more time: DNA analysis of a cancer sample would indicate that the sample came from the individual from which the sample was taken - albeit w/ a mutation. It would NOT indicate that the sample came from another unique, distinct human being.

In other words, a cancer tissue sample from grumpy would be grumpy's DNA...w/ a mutation. Grumpy's cancer DNA sample would not show that it came from somebody else.

(wow....these proaborts are really, really stupid...)

No Relativism

Huntington, IN

#321553 Feb 4, 2014
cpeter1313 wrote:
The fetus, just like a DNA sample from a corpse belongs to the corpse. When you take a sample, you note where it came from. DNA tests don't differentiate between origin sources or note if the source is living or dead.
<quoted text>
cPeterPrance: "DNA tests don't note if the source is living or dead."

True, but in utero babies targeted in induced abortions are alive. Don't take me word on it, let the abortionists themselves tell you...
_________

"And typically when the abortion procedure is started we typically know that the fetus is still ALIVE because either we can feel it move as we're making our initial grasps or if we're using some ultrasound visualization when we actually see a heartbeat as we're starting the procedure."

- Sworn testimony given in US District Court for the Western District of Wisconsin (Madison, WI, May 27, 1999, Case No. 98-C-0305-S), by abortionist Martin Haskell.
__________

Under oath (Doc.#4:97CV3205) in July 1997, abortionist Leroy Carhart:

*Question: In that situation, when you pull on the arm and remove it, is the fetus still ALIVE?

Carhart: Yes

*Question: At what point does the fetus DIE during that process?

Carhart: I don't really know. I know that the fetus is ALIVE during the process most of the time because I can see fetal heartbeat on the ultrasound.
________

Question: Can the heart of a fetus or embryo still be beating during a suction curettage abortion as the fetus or embryo comes down the cannula? Answer: For a few seconds to a minute, yes.

“When we do a suction curettage abortion, you know, roughly one of three things is going to happen during the abortion. One would be that the catheter as it approaches the fetus, you know, tears it and KILLS it at that instant inside the uterus. The second would be that the fetus is small enough and the catheter is large enough that the fetus passes through the catheter and either DIES in transit as it’s passing through the catheter or DIES in the suction bottle after it’s actually all the way out.”

(Madison, WI, May 27, 1999, Case No. 98-C-0305-S by Abortionist Harlan Raymond Giles)
grumpy

Stony Point, NY

#321554 Feb 4, 2014
VoteVets Org wrote:
<quoted text>
One more time.....no.
Cancer cells are mutated normal cells whose DNA is readily distinguishable from normal cells due to its unique characteristics. DNA samples are not taken blindly in a vacuum. Their origin is known, that is, it is known if they were taken from a tumor or from a living fetus. DNA taken from a living, developing human fetus would only confirm a unique genetic code different from its mother, thereby confirming it as a developing human individual distinct from its mother.
I hope this is the last time you ask this stupid question. It was stupid the first time you asked it and repetition has not diminished its stupidity.
My point is to show that the criteria that anti-choicers to prove a fetus is a baby could also apply to a cancer. What criteria does your post show that differs a fetus from a cancer?
No Relativism

Huntington, IN

#321555 Feb 4, 2014
cpeter1313 wrote:
Nor does it mean she would have changed her mind. We all know how you disregard pregnant women....
<quoted text>
cPeterPrance: "Nor does it mean she would have changed her mind."

Nor does it mean she wouldn't have changed her mind for the sake of her child.

Give benefit of the doubt to her innocent child's life.

Respect LIFE.
No Relativism

Huntington, IN

#321556 Feb 4, 2014
Earth Child 1 wrote:
<quoted text>To give a child a chance who also had severe brain damage from lack of oxygen. Do you think it's fair to the remaining family to take on the responsibility mentally, physically and financially of a severely brain damaged child? Do you really thinks it's fair to the other sibling to be forced to take on the responsibility of a brain damaged brother or sister once family members become too old, sick and also start passing away? What if he wants to go to college, get married and start his own family? Should he have to forfeit part of his life or the future life of a spouse for the responsibility of a brain damaged adult sibling he didn't ask for? You're not considering the lives of other people who are affected and their quality of life. You're just looking at a baby and not taking into account that baby is going to be a severly brain damaged adult.
EarthOneDeadChild: "A child who also had severe brain damage from lack of oxygen...that baby is going to be a severly brain damaged adult."

You're speculating and assuming the worst in order to 'justify' your knee-jerk response: Killing.

Your post isn't about abortion. Your post supports euthenasia.
No Relativism

Huntington, IN

#321557 Feb 4, 2014
Earth Child 1 wrote:
<quoted text>There is "NO" distinct human being from a clump of cells.
EarthOneDeadBaby: "There is 'NO' distinct human being from a clump of cells."
________

In the post just before the one above you said the complete opposite.

Look for yourself...

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/abortion/T833...

NR: "I'm glad you finally agree that a DNA analysis of mom and her in utero baby indicate that they are both unique, distinct human beings."

EarthOneDeadBaby: "Of course they are."

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