Hayward wine bar sues over outdoor music ban

A wine bar owner is suing the city of Hayward, Wis., over its ban on outdoor music after 10 p.m. Molly Otis says the city's music ordinance is unconstitutional. Full Story
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dude from Anoka

Minneapolis, MN

#1 Aug 18, 2010
Wow really? Using free speech as a mask for blaring music at 10:00 PM? I gotta see the outcome of this, because if this bar wins this, I can blar music at 130+ decibels from the my deck at 10:00 PM. Pathetic.
Bud in St Paul

Saint Paul, MN

#2 Aug 18, 2010
"Molly Otis says the city's music ordinance is unconstitutional. Otis owns the Pavilion Wine Bar and Shops and built a patio where she wants to have live music on Friday and Saturday night."

What a load of BS! Molly and her customers might want to hear the music but I'm sure the neighbors don't.

I once live across the street from a bar and they opened an outdoor seating and started having polka bands on the weekend. What a nightmare that was when your trying to sleep even with the windows closed. After many complaints to the bar owner and city I finely moved.

I hope the city Hayward does not cave into Molly Otis and her wine bar.
Ray

Minneapolis, MN

#3 Aug 18, 2010
The First Amendment does not encompass disturbing the peace, anymore than it protects a right to shout "Fire" in a movie theatre (unless there is an actual fire). Check the citations on time, place and manner regulation of the Supreme Court. And learn the Constitution before you quote it.
FrankL

Saint Paul, MN

#6 Aug 18, 2010
Why can't the band play inside? Use the patio for people who want to geta break from the music. Bar owners have been installing these patios and think that there should be no rules on disturbing the peace.
dum dums

Cook, MN

#7 Aug 18, 2010
dude from Anoka wrote:
Wow really? Using free speech as a mask for blaring music at 10:00 PM? I gotta see the outcome of this, because if this bar wins this, I can blar music at 130+ decibels from the my deck at 10:00 PM. Pathetic.
it's dudes like you that ruin it for everyone else. some dude like you probably was pie-eyed or methed out and had the music too loud so now the city is forced to enforce a 10pm rule.i am sure if you dug a little deeper, the city council has a beef with the owner of this wine-o establishment. actually i would bet a million dollars this is all political and not actually about the music.
reader

Minneapolis, MN

#9 Aug 18, 2010
Go for it. The city should allow it, but require after 10pm that it doesn't get past a certain noise level or fine them if it does. That should send a message. People pay to live in their little haven of land and also desire the right to have quiet after a certain time. Who cares if the bars want music after 10pm, but if the neighbors who want quiet and can hear it, then fine the bar for noise ordanance. Ways to get around from just saying no.
school system too

Saint Paul, MN

#10 Aug 18, 2010
jerry person wrote:
If you leave your car on the street after ten the sheriff james mieier car theft ring will steal your car. The criminal just us system in sawyer or sewer county is one of the most violent criminal enterprises in America. The sheriff has a huge bunker ful of children.
We can tell by your post the school system has failings too...
WHAT

Hudson, WI

#11 Aug 18, 2010
hey molly, how would you like 30 bikers to show up every friday and saturday to drink your swill, how would that be for business. we can dance on your new patio.
Swamp Thing

Saint Paul, MN

#12 Aug 18, 2010
Molly must be new to the buisness.You don't go around town bad mouthing the mayor and city council if you ever want to ask for something to pass in the future.Even if they are wrong.She might as well start a going out of buisness sale today.From late plowing in front of her bar after a big snow to health inspections and code violations.They will make life miserable.
Freedom Lover

Minneapolis, MN

#13 Aug 18, 2010
Music is an expression and Molly has every right to listen to it. VOLUME is the issue here. Molly does not have the right to let her soundwaves interfere with anyone else.
Anna

Iron River, WI

#14 Aug 18, 2010
This isn't about blaring music late at night - this is a MUSIC ordinance. There is a difference between this and a NOISE ordinance, being that one is definitely unconstitutional and the other is fair. What the current ordinance is doing is prohibiting MUSIC, not the VOLUME of the music. Of course there needs to be a regulation of the volume, but currently it's just prohibiting the performing/playing of music in general. Plus, another fact that didn't seem to emerge in the press is that the city is giving permits to others, allowing them to play out late, but not Molly's. This is just plain unfair. The place doesn't want to blast amplified music late at night (they merely play acoustic outdoors), all they want is to run their business.
Anna

Iron River, WI

#15 Aug 18, 2010
This isn't about blaring music late at night - this is a MUSIC ordinance. There is a difference between this and a NOISE ordinance, being that one is definitely unconstitutional and the other is fair. What the current ordinance is doing is prohibiting MUSIC, not the VOLUME of the music. Of course there needs to be a regulation of the volume, but currently it's just prohibiting the performing/playing of music in general. Plus, another fact that didn't seem to emerge in the press is that the city is giving permits to others, allowing them to play out late, but not Molly's. This is just plain unfair. The place doesn't want to blast amplified music late at night (they merely play acoustic outdoors), all they want is to run their business.
Anna

Iron River, WI

#16 Aug 18, 2010
Why did I post twice? Because no one can seem to understand this side of it.
Anna

Iron River, WI

#17 Aug 18, 2010
Ray wrote:
The First Amendment does not encompass disturbing the peace, anymore than it protects a right to shout "Fire" in a movie theatre (unless there is an actual fire). Check the citations on time, place and manner regulation of the Supreme Court. And learn the Constitution before you quote it.
This isn't about "disturbing the peace". It's about playing music. The current ordinance is not on noise, it's on music. That's a 1st Amendment right that right now, she doesn't have. Make it a noise ordinance and this problem goes away.
Wine Bar

Plymouth, MN

#18 Aug 18, 2010
It's a wine bar. I don't see to many Cannibal Corpse, Napalm Death, or Obituary concerts at wine bars.

I'm pretty sure the bands that play are mostly guys with soul patches and girls that smell like Patchouli. Playing guitars and maybe a tambourine.

People need to relax or I'll drive my Screamin' Eagle Hog up and down Hayward so you have something real to complain about.
Ben

Minneapolis, MN

#19 Aug 18, 2010
I'm with Molly. What happened to property rights in this country. Zoning laws, noise ordinances. It's all COMMUNISM. If I want to pave my front yard and sell used cars from Midnight to 8:00 AM, I should be able to. PROPERTY RIGHTS are the most important rights there are, and we erode them, in the guise of the "public good."
good neighbors

Saint Paul, MN

#20 Aug 18, 2010
If a business wants to be part of a community, that means considering others as well. Doing whatever you please does not pass for being a good neighbor whether your are an individual or a business.

There was a bar near me (about 3/4 of a mile away) that once a year had an outdoor concert. It was quite loud even at that distance, but people knew it was just once a year and that was OK and no one complained. To have that every weekend? No, people would not have put up with it.

I like the suggestion of moving it indoors and having the patio be a reprieve from the decibel levels inside. Even that might be loud depending on how close residences are to the bar. Again, every weekend versus an occasional event seems to be the deal breaker unless decibels can be kept within reason. If the bar owners can't see this, may they get what they deserve: a quick ticket out of town for being a bad neighbor.
Ben

Minneapolis, MN

#21 Aug 18, 2010
Freedom Lover wrote:
Music is an expression and Molly has every right to listen to it. VOLUME is the issue here. Molly does not have the right to let her soundwaves interfere with anyone else.
Ironic that your name is "Freedom Lover" when you support a GOVERNMENT taking away INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY. LIBERTY is protected from being taken by the government, not each other. Her neighbors' liberty is not protected from the things she does, because she is not government. HER'S is protected from the City, or at least it should be. Liberty is dead. Most of this board is conservative (thankfully, it gives faith in humanity), but it's so odd too see everyone taking the side of the government stealing liberties instead of a hard working business person.

Neighbors and her need to used a little bit of conversation and elbow grease to come to agreement. What they should not do, since they are not in a communist country, is go whining to the government.
well

Palo Alto, CA

#22 Aug 18, 2010
Former Hayward Resident wrote:
<quoted text>
As someone who lived in Hayward for a bit I couldnt agree more. I have never met more hypocrites in my life.
I have a particular memory of Sawyer County, My wife and I were attending a festival that we had attended for about 14 years in a row. In this particular year my wife was battling cancer and the side effects from chemo. She felt to tired to walk through the festival but wanted some food. I drove around trying to find a parking spot without any luck. I didn't feel I had the time to park in the designated parking and take the shuttle back and forth, so I pulled over in an area that had a temperary no parking sign, gave my wife the keys,ran in to get food, and was back in about ten minutes. I asked her where do you want to go eat it. She said I want to stay here, I reluctantly agreed, we ate leaning against the back gate of the car. One of the kindly neighbors threatened to slash our tires as we sat their eating. Sadly it was her last festival.
uggh

Saint Paul, MN

#23 Aug 18, 2010
Ben wrote:
<quoted text>
Ironic that your name is "Freedom Lover" when you support a GOVERNMENT taking away INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY. LIBERTY is protected from being taken by the government, not each other. Her neighbors' liberty is not protected from the things she does, because she is not government. HER'S is protected from the City, or at least it should be. Liberty is dead. Most of this board is conservative (thankfully, it gives faith in humanity), but it's so odd too see everyone taking the side of the government stealing liberties instead of a hard working business person.
Neighbors and her need to used a little bit of conversation and elbow grease to come to agreement. What they should not do, since they are not in a communist country, is go whining to the government.
Believe me, I am no fan of nanny-stating. But liberty extends to those who live in the area as well, "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?" If you can't stand the noise from an adjacent business that got an "idea" long after residents have been there, your right to happiness as a homeowner is directly affected. Business and residences must peacefully coexist. Using the Constitution as a shield to justify whatever behavior YOU see fit is not reasonable. Freedom of expression does not mean that fallout from such freedom makes life unlivable for others. If you are a true "conservative" you should see that, as progressives/liberals LOVE to bend the law to suit their personal fancy.

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