Neighbor

Naperville, IL

#42 Oct 2, 2012
Understand, Obama needs government depedent voters. Unfortunately, more minorities fall into this catagory. These folks are unemployed, and not really interested in votng this time. So, how do you change that? You convince them that the REpublicans are trying to keep them from voting because of the Voter-ID. Now you can fire them up, and maybe they will vote, and voe against Republicans. The Democrates manipulate these voters like trained dogs, and over & over again. It is a shame, but that's the strategy behind all this.
Four More Years

Deerfield, IL

#43 Oct 2, 2012
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1012/819...

Looks like a delay in the IDs in Pennsylvania.
Neighbor

Naperville, IL

#44 Oct 2, 2012
Corrupt voting is a powerful machine huh?
Professor

United States

#45 Oct 2, 2012
Four More Years wrote:
http://www.politico.com/news/s tories/1012/81905.html?hp=l1
Looks like a delay in the IDs in Pennsylvania.
sounds s like a load of obamaphones will be heading to pennsylvania soon!
Everyone should vote

Frankfort, IL

#46 Oct 2, 2012
Appalled wrote:
An excerpt from your link:

"Decades of study have found virtually no use of false identification in U.S. elections or voting by non-citizens. Activists say the bigger problem in the United States, where most elections see turnout of well under 60 percent, is that eligible Americans do not bother to vote."

Illegals should be deported. Legal citizens should not have to jump through hoops to vote.
Appalled

Wilmington, IL

#47 Oct 2, 2012
Everyone should vote wrote:
<quoted text>
An excerpt from your link:
"Decades of study have found virtually no use of false identification in U.S. elections or voting by non-citizens.
The article was trying to be unbiased by reporting the positions of both sides of the argument. You hand picked one and the following might help to prove the statements false.

First, don't you just love the way they worded the comment? Obviously there will be "virtually no use of FALSE identification" if no indentification is required. Duh.

As far as the declaration that there is no voting by non-citizens I ask you to go to the following site to read the testimony of Dan Stein, President of the Federation for American Immigration Reform as presented to the House Committee on Administration. Then you can decide whether the statement is true or not:

http://www.fairus.org/testimony/non-citizen-v...

While you are busy wishing for deportation, they are busy claiming rights they do not have.
Accountability

United States

#48 Oct 3, 2012
My man mitt wrote:
<quoted text>
Where is the proof that this disenfranchises legitimate voters? I havent seen any.
The problem has been the form of identification that is required to obtain a proper photo I.D. As I said earlier, some states would not accept a college photo I.D. Others would not accept a tax or utility bill from people who have lived at the same location for years. Birth certificate? What about people who were born in another state? How many hoops do you expect people to jump through to be allowed to exercise their Constitutional right? Basically, theyíre saying you have to have a driverís license to be able to obtain a driverís license and Iím pretty sure they donít hand those out for free. If there is any cost involved, then it amounts to a poll tax. It appears that judges agree that these laws put an undue burden on voters and are delaying, if not altogether throwing these laws out. Though no one likes cheaters, I find it kind of curious that this has become an issue at this time, when we all know itís been going on since people used rocks to cast their ballots. Itís pretty well known to anyone who has played or watched sports that the bad calls usually even out. Iíd be more concerned with real voter fraud like machines changing votes or ones that donít count them at all, not to mention county commissioners that ďfindĒ thousands of votes as was the case in Wisconsin, before Iíd worry about an illegal immigrant trying to vote, risking deportation if caught. We should be making it easier to vote, not more difficult. Perhaps when kids have to register for the draft at age 18, they should be registered to vote and issued a federal I.D. card. Oh, wait, Clinton wanted to have a national I.D. program but the Republicans shot it down as too much government intrusion. I guess thereís just a fundamental difference in ideologies. One side seems to want to be inclusive, the other exclusive.
Four More Years

Deerfield, IL

#49 Oct 3, 2012
Accountability wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem has been the form of identification that is required to obtain a proper photo I.D. As I said earlier, some states would not accept a college photo I.D. Others would not accept a tax or utility bill from people who have lived at the same location for years. Birth certificate? What about people who were born in another state? How many hoops do you expect people to jump through to be allowed to exercise their Constitutional right? Basically, theyíre saying you have to have a driverís license to be able to obtain a driverís license and Iím pretty sure they donít hand those out for free. If there is any cost involved, then it amounts to a poll tax. It appears that judges agree that these laws put an undue burden on voters and are delaying, if not altogether throwing these laws out. Though no one likes cheaters, I find it kind of curious that this has become an issue at this time, when we all know itís been going on since people used rocks to cast their ballots. Itís pretty well known to anyone who has played or watched sports that the bad calls usually even out. Iíd be more concerned with real voter fraud like machines changing votes or ones that donít count them at all, not to mention county commissioners that ďfindĒ thousands of votes as was the case in Wisconsin, before Iíd worry about an illegal immigrant trying to vote, risking deportation if caught. We should be making it easier to vote, not more difficult. Perhaps when kids have to register for the draft at age 18, they should be registered to vote and issued a federal I.D. card. Oh, wait, Clinton wanted to have a national I.D. program but the Republicans shot it down as too much government intrusion. I guess thereís just a fundamental difference in ideologies. One side seems to want to be inclusive, the other exclusive.
Very well stated.
Neighbor

Naperville, IL

#50 Oct 3, 2012
Ok, next time you go to the bank, leave your ID at home, go to a business meeting down town - leav your ID at home, try to get on a plane - leave your ID at home, try to get dental or medical care- leave your ID at home, and on & on... To your logic, it's an undue burden to have an ID right? How about the most valuable right our soildiers have given their blood for us (Voteing)? It's too much of a burden for you to present an ID, and they gave their life to protect our right to voting in a fair election?
If you were well read on this, it was not accepting a College ID in Pennsylvaina at all. Kids were paid by the DEms to register voters, the more they registered, the morfe they got paid. Numerious voter registrationd did not have complete or required information (like the room & address of a Dorm). <This is why they were tossed as unacceptable. <Just say'n

Voting should not be fraudlent, nor treated so casual that there is increased opportunity for fraud (NY found 77,000 dead people voting). I heard others state well voter fraud is just so small. That's like saying we only had 100 speeding tickets issued, so very few people actually speed. You see, we really have no idea how large a problem voter fraud is because it's so hard to catch evry one. We must take the best steps possible to ensure the integrety of our voters, and the votes cast. An ID helps prevent fraud.
My Man Mitt

Merrillville, IN

#51 Oct 3, 2012
Accountability wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem has been the form of identification that is required to obtain a proper photo I.D. As I said earlier, some states would not accept a college photo I.D. Others would not accept a tax or utility bill from people who have lived at the same location for years. Birth certificate? What about people who were born in another state? How many hoops do you expect people to jump through to be allowed to exercise their Constitutional right? Basically, theyíre saying you have to have a driverís license to be able to obtain a driverís license and Iím pretty sure they donít hand those out for free. If there is any cost involved, then it amounts to a poll tax. It appears that judges agree that these laws put an undue burden on voters and are delaying, if not altogether throwing these laws out. Though no one likes cheaters, I find it kind of curious that this has become an issue at this time, when we all know itís been going on since people used rocks to cast their ballots. Itís pretty well known to anyone who has played or watched sports that the bad calls usually even out. Iíd be more concerned with real voter fraud like machines changing votes or ones that donít count them at all, not to mention county commissioners that ďfindĒ thousands of votes as was the case in Wisconsin, before Iíd worry about an illegal immigrant trying to vote, risking deportation if caught. We should be making it easier to vote, not more difficult. Perhaps when kids have to register for the draft at age 18, they should be registered to vote and issued a federal I.D. card. Oh, wait, Clinton wanted to have a national I.D. program but the Republicans shot it down as too much government intrusion. I guess thereís just a fundamental difference in ideologies. One side seems to want to be inclusive, the other exclusive.
Again, I just don't see your argument. Why is it difficult to bring your birth certificate in? You can't tell me that most people don't have a birth certificate either. As for the cost of an I.D., are you kidding me? I don't know what each state does but we're talking about a couple bucks if anything at all.

You ask why this is becoming an issue right now, that's for a couple reasons. First, I think most people assume that you need an I.D. to vote. I know I assumed that you did. They always ask for my I.D. when I vote. Also, we've had some extremely close elections in the last several years and they can be influenced by voter fraud.

Here is a question for you, why are we not concerned that the absentee ballot requests for our military personnel are down 92% in some key states? I understand that some of this will be due to the decreased number of soldiers on deployment but 92%? The D.O.D., which is controlled by your guy Obama, doesn't seem to be doing their job in this respect. Why not? After all, aren't dems concerned about voter suppression? Of course they aren't. They are only concerned about democrat vote suppression. The fact of the matter is that Obama has weakened our military and those military votes will go to republicans. That is why no one, meaning dems and the media, give a damn about that.
Appalled

Wilmington, IL

#52 Oct 3, 2012
Accountability wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem has been the form of identification that is required to obtain a proper photo I.D. As I said earlier, some states would not accept a college photo I.D. Others would not accept a tax or utility bill from people who have lived at the same location for years. Birth certificate? What about people who were born in another state? How many hoops do you expect people to jump through to be allowed to exercise their Constitutional right? Basically, theyíre saying you have to have a driverís license to be able to obtain a driverís license and Iím pretty sure they donít hand those out for free. If there is any cost involved, then it amounts to a poll tax. It appears that judges agree that these laws put an undue burden on voters and are delaying, if not altogether throwing these laws out. Though no one likes cheaters, I find it kind of curious that this has become an issue at this time, when we all know itís been going on since people used rocks to cast their ballots. Itís pretty well known to anyone who has played or watched sports that the bad calls usually even out. Iíd be more concerned with real voter fraud like machines changing votes or ones that donít count them at all, not to mention county commissioners that ďfindĒ thousands of votes as was the case in Wisconsin, before Iíd worry about an illegal immigrant trying to vote, risking deportation if caught. We should be making it easier to vote, not more difficult. Perhaps when kids have to register for the draft at age 18, they should be registered to vote and issued a federal I.D. card. Oh, wait, Clinton wanted to have a national I.D. program but the Republicans shot it down as too much government intrusion. I guess thereís just a fundamental difference in ideologies. One side seems to want to be inclusive, the other exclusive.
This problem is not singularly about showing ID at your voting site. This problem has many different levels of dishonesty which are being ignored. Please, please read this testimony ( http://www.fairus.org/testimony/non-citizen-v... ) to get a clearer idea of what the problems are. When you take an honest look at the big picture you may more fully understand.

As far as the problem existing forever, recent history concerning illegal immigration numbers, that cannot be denied, have influenced many, many critical areas of our nation. Common sense dictates that this would influence our voting history as well.

I cannot speak for others but my ideology is not based on exclusion. It is based on honesty and has nothing to do with whether you are a dem or a republican. When both sides turn up for battle on election day, I expect, I insist, I demand that the playing field be even and honest to the best of our ability.
Neighbor

Naperville, IL

#53 Oct 3, 2012
Very well said! Ditto
Accountability

United States

#54 Oct 3, 2012
Neighbor wrote:
Ok, next time you go to the bank, leave your ID at home, go to a business meeting down town - leav your ID at home, try to get on a plane - leave your ID at home, try to get dental or medical care- leave your ID at home, and on & on... To your logic, it's an undue burden to have an ID right? How about the most valuable right our soildiers have given their blood for us (Voteing)? It's too much of a burden for you to present an ID, and they gave their life to protect our right to voting in a fair election?
If you were well read on this, it was not accepting a College ID in Pennsylvaina at all. Kids were paid by the DEms to register voters, the more they registered, the morfe they got paid. Numerious voter registrationd did not have complete or required information (like the room & address of a Dorm). <This is why they were tossed as unacceptable. <Just say'n
Voting should not be fraudlent, nor treated so casual that there is increased opportunity for fraud (NY found 77,000 dead people voting). I heard others state well voter fraud is just so small. That's like saying we only had 100 speeding tickets issued, so very few people actually speed. You see, we really have no idea how large a problem voter fraud is because it's so hard to catch evry one. We must take the best steps possible to ensure the integrety of our voters, and the votes cast. An ID helps prevent fraud.
I am growing weary trying to explain the difference between rights and privileges. Yet you keep listing things that no one is entitled to, as if they are the same thing as having the right to vote. Driving a car, flying in a plane and yes, even cashing a check are privileges, not rights. Exercising a right should not require showing your papers beyond the basic registration process. If this ďproblemĒ is so pervasive, why donít the numbers bear it out? Can it be that itís because itís not really a problem at all, just a last gasp attempt to save a party that will soon die off if it doesnít open itís heart, mind and arms a little bit? Itís time to face the facts that youíre too pale, stale and male to survive much longer. You canít win at the polls, so change the rules. Can you say Whigs

P.S. The college I was referring to was UW Madison and your line about vets is ironic since they're one of the groups being affected by these laws.
Neighbor

Naperville, IL

#55 Oct 3, 2012
Ironic, is that each Vet has an ID. <grin Right?

Honestly, there has been overwealming evidence across the years of voter fraud. Come on, google it and really go through the caess. It's very hard to catch, and prove. The studies you want to use only based upon those caught, not 100% of the undetected fraud. Right?

It's a silly arguement to accept a little bit of fraud. Races are very close across the country, we are split pretty much 50/50 these days. A hundred votes in 25,000 can change an election.

No one does not have an ID these days. Certainly, it is not hard at all to get off the couch and go get one for sure.

Voting is a right in this country, but those rights were put inplace & held in place through the blood of American soldiers. It was not, and is not free. Doing the tiniest part of showing your ID is no price at all to pay to assure the integrety of our votes.
Appalled

Wilmington, IL

#56 Oct 3, 2012
Accountability wrote:
<quoted text>
I am growing weary trying to explain the difference between rights and privileges. Yet you keep listing things that no one is entitled to, as if they are the same thing as having the right to vote. Driving a car, flying in a plane and yes, even cashing a check are privileges, not rights. Exercising a right should not require showing your papers beyond the basic registration process. If this ďproblemĒ is so pervasive, why donít the numbers bear it out? Can it be that itís because itís not really a problem at all, just a last gasp attempt to save a party that will soon die off if it doesnít open itís heart, mind and arms a little bit? Itís time to face the facts that youíre too pale, stale and male to survive much longer. You canít win at the polls, so change the rules. Can you say Whigs
P.S. The college I was referring to was UW Madison and your line about vets is ironic since they're one of the groups being affected by these laws.
If you sincerely wish to protect the right to vote, should you not also be protecting its value? What good is one without the other?
Neighbor

Naperville, IL

#57 Oct 3, 2012
Ironically, if voter fraud is not really important to you, then why is it important to block preventative measures???? The "Nothing to see here, move along" message, begs me to want to look much closer....

You know, home burglaries are so very very rare. Yet, I bet you lock your doors. Kind of a "just in case" thing right? My point is that our votes are preciously valuable, and protecting the safety of the voting process is a critical factor for all of us.
Appalled

Wilmington, IL

#58 Oct 3, 2012
Accountability wrote:
<quoted text>
I am growing weary trying to explain the difference between rights and privileges. Yet you keep listing things that no one is entitled to, as if they are the same thing as having the right to vote. Driving a car, flying in a plane and yes, even cashing a check are privileges, not rights. Exercising a right should not require showing your papers beyond the basic registration process.
I think you are the only one arguing the difference in "rights" and "privileges". What others are pointing out is the disparity that exists when you ask for ID for the "privileges" but do not value the act of voting the same way.

The greatest distinction that needs to be clarified is that not everyone is promised this "right". This "right" is earned through citizenship. It is lost during incarceration (except in two states). And it is limited. To allow it to be abused in any way, IMO, is inexcusable.
Everyone should vote

Frankfort, IL

#59 Oct 3, 2012
Appalled wrote:
<quoted text>
The article was trying to be unbiased by reporting the positions of both sides of the argument. You hand picked one and the following might help to prove the statements false.
First, don't you just love the way they worded the comment? Obviously there will be "virtually no use of FALSE identification" if no indentification is required. Duh.
As far as the declaration that there is no voting by non-citizens I ask you to go to the following site to read the testimony of Dan Stein, President of the Federation for American Immigration Reform as presented to the House Committee on Administration. Then you can decide whether the statement is true or not:
http://www.fairus.org/testimony/non-citizen-v...
While you are busy wishing for deportation, they are busy claiming rights they do not have.
Yeah, I "handpicked" a statement. It's the most telling statement in the article. The Republican backed voter purges are intended to prevent Democrat votes. That's it....period. The Republicans could care less if the voters are illegal immigrants or not. I don't disagree with FAIR or you wanting to stop illegal immigration. That's another topic. However, your focus on using the Voter ID is a waste of time an money. This country has a problem with voter apathy.
Here's a link for you
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/24/vo...

and another "handpicked" excerpt from my own link:

Texas Attorney General Gregg Abbott, a Republican, launched an investigation in 2005 to uncover what he called an "epidemic" of voter fraud. But reviews of Abbott's investigation two years later yielded no cases of voter impersonation fraud. A Dallas Morning News review in 2008 found the 26 cases prosecuted were all against Democrats, most involved blacks and Hispanics, and typically involved people who helped elderly voters with mail-in ballots, but failed to follow state law by signing their names and addresses on the envelopes.

Abbot's investigation was paid for with a $1.4 million Justice Department crime-fighting grant.
Appalled

Wilmington, IL

#60 Oct 3, 2012
Everyone should vote wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, I "handpicked" a statement. It's the most telling statement in the article. The Republican backed voter purges are intended to prevent Democrat votes. That's it....period. The Republicans could care less if the voters are illegal immigrants or not. I don't disagree with FAIR or you wanting to stop illegal immigration. That's another topic. However, your focus on using the Voter ID is a waste of time an money. This country has a problem with voter apathy.
Here's a link for you
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/09/24/vo...
and another "handpicked" excerpt from my own link:
Texas Attorney General Gregg Abbott, a Republican, launched an investigation in 2005 to uncover what he called an "epidemic" of voter fraud. But reviews of Abbott's investigation two years later yielded no cases of voter impersonation fraud. A Dallas Morning News review in 2008 found the 26 cases prosecuted were all against Democrats, most involved blacks and Hispanics, and typically involved people who helped elderly voters with mail-in ballots, but failed to follow state law by signing their names and addresses on the envelopes.
Abbot's investigation was paid for with a $1.4 million Justice Department crime-fighting grant.
I showed fact based material to dispute the statement in question so I am not sure how you can claim that it is the most "telling" of the article.

Illegal immigration is not another topic, it is part of this one. You obviously did not read the F.A.I.R. testimony. You might also try looking up the Voces de la Frontera organization in Wisconsin to update yourself on their questionable actions.

The voter purges will stop some of the illegal voting. If you think the dems will be hit the hardest by this, well, that is your call. You said it, not me.

My focus is to stop illegal voting at every level, not just voter ID. States that link driver's license applications with voter registration contribute to the problem. Registering to vote and only having to swear to citizenship rather than prove it also is a huge factor in fraud. And the usual habit of non-prosecution when fraud is identified does nothing to deter anyone.

I was a victim of voter impersonation, so I guess that very expensive investigation conducted by Mr. Abbott that yielded NO cases of voter impersonation was flawed.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see."
Neighbor

Naperville, IL

#61 Oct 4, 2012
Appalled... Thought I'd check in to see if you needed help educating these "protect the vote" detractors. I see you have things easily handled by yourself!

So, Hi Ho Silver, and away I go....

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