In Lincoln's steps

[That guy]

Matthew wrote:

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I hope you're not trying to suggest that Lincoln violated the Constitution by suspending the writ of habeas corpus,
The Suspension Clause of the United States Constitution itself specifically permits the writ to be suspended in Article One, Section 9 which states:
“The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, UNLESS when in cases of REBELLION or invasion the public safety may require it."

No, Lincoln is a war criminal for his direct authorization of the killing and raping of innocent civilians and the pillaging of their property, inter alia. He is a political criminal for his rape of the 9th and 10th amendments. He was demonstrably mentally ill, and manifestly unsuited for any public office whatsoever.

[Kel]

About time there was a story about Mr. Lincoln. The greatest President this country has ever seen. He can rate there with Kennedy and Reagan as far as I'm concerned

[Rational Man]

Franklin Ratliff wrote:

<quoted text>
The most damaging contributor to the economic collapse was WALL STREET'S entitlement mentality, as in "WE are entitled to YOUR money."

Wall street feels that way???? The Fed thinks our earnings are their money -- just listen to any Senator or Congressman.

And I stand by my statement -- today's entitlement mentality is far more damaging to the nation than anything Lincoln did.

[Rational Man]

That guy wrote:

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His assault on state's rights and individual rights essentially gutted the 9th and 10th amendments. The vast majority of Americans are obese idiots.

I understand your point, but disagree with your overall comment.

Before the Civil War and Lincoln... folks thought of their state first, and did not think of us as a nation. Lincoln and the Civil War changed that thinking to weld us into a nation. You can think that is good or bad, but I think to stand up to problems that occurred after 1865, the national outlook was better.

Those things Lincoln did against individual rights were temporary wartime measures and basically ended shortly after the war. As for the states issues -- yes, definitely some permanent changes there. But the biggest changes there have come with activist judges and constiutional interpretation, with the passive assent (basically, never caring enough to say no) of the public.

The fed now has powers well beyond what are granted in the constitution, and infringe dramatically on states rights. But no one has stopped them. Likely it would take a revolution to get back to the constitution as it was written.

I don't think you can blame it all on Lincoln, but you can make a case that he was the starting point.

As for your obese idiots comment -- that is just rude and totally unnecessary (no matter how correct you may be.) The problem with most Americans is that they think they can vote themselves bread and circuses (entitlements) forever, without paying the bill. The small portion of the country that does pay the bill (the working middle class) is divided into those fed up with supporting the bad behavior of others and those wanting to know how they can get onto the gravy wagon too.... The current financial crisis is likely just the start of a long series of problems that are going to require some fundamental adjustments in the way Americans think and behave. It is going to be a painful period, and will probably last for decades.

Sooner or later, the gravy ends.... and we are getting to the bottom of the boat now. The 'takers' are going to be in very bad shape when there is nothing more for the fed to give. But by then the 'doers' will be bankrupted and forced into the ranks of the takers.... and the whole thing will come tumbling down...

[JBS]

Tell me, all of you Lincoln experts: Was Lincoln beloved in his day? Who recognized him as a great president BEFORE John Wilkes Booth ended his life? And what are the comparisons that we can use to decide whether a president is "bad," "good" or "great?" My guess is that your determinants will be on a sliding scale and will vary from president to president. For instance, a president today is considered "good" or "great" if peace and prosperity reign during his administration. But yet, most of the presidents that Americans generally consider "good" or "great" met neither of those criteria. Lincoln is certainly on that list, as is FDR. So tell us, please, all of you experts: Why is Lincoln considered great, when war ravaged the country, civil liberties were suspended, riots raged in the streets of the country's largest city and the economy was destroyed during his administration? If those are the determinants of a great president, why is Lincoln considered great? I'll be very interested to see if anyone has the intelligence to answer this question.

[Matthew]

JBS wrote:

Tell me, all of you Lincoln experts: Was Lincoln beloved in his day? Who recognized him as a great president BEFORE John Wilkes Booth ended his life? And what are the comparisons that we can use to decide whether a president is "bad," "good" or "great?" My guess is that your determinants will be on a sliding scale and will vary from president to president. For instance, a president today is considered "good" or "great" if peace and prosperity reign during his administration. But yet, most of the presidents that Americans generally consider "good" or "great" met neither of those criteria. Lincoln is certainly on that list, as is FDR. So tell us, please, all of you experts: Why is Lincoln considered great, when war ravaged the country, civil liberties were suspended, riots raged in the streets of the country's largest city and the economy was destroyed during his administration? If those are the determinants of a great president, why is Lincoln considered great? I'll be very interested to see if anyone has the intelligence to answer this question.

Lincoln and FDR proved their greatness precisely because they led us in the WORST of times.

During Lincoln's time it wasn't clear if the Union was going to survive - but under his watch IT DID SURVIVE.

During FDR's time it wasn't clear if Liberal Democracy was going to survive - but under his watch IT DID SURVIVE.

[janedownstater]

Wonderful! Thank you.

[janedownstater]

JBS - Lincoln is considered great because he was. Not only did he come from nothing to become President, he grew into the role of icon by understanding that the war was about an ideology of freedom for all and self-government by the ordinary man. Concepts that are still very difficult to grasp. He had no apparent vices - didn't drink, smoke or chase the ladies. Although he wheeled and dealed politically, he did not personally profit from any of it - used his influence for the betterment of his state and country. Ultimately, he was called upon to give the greatest sacrifice - his life. This is why he is great. Wish we had someone similar in todays world.

[Cheesy p]

Lincoln. The magic Negro-free-er
Big ups Midwest.
Rock on chicago
Wheaties, breakfast of champions

[JBS]

I understand that Lincoln is considered great. But you did not answer my question. "Because he is" is something an elementary school student would come up with. Please. I want to know: What makes a president great, good, mediocre and bad? Is it peace and prosperity? Or is it not? If it's not, then we have a lot of people operating with a bad set of measurements with which to judge presidencies. I know I've read a great number of people who believe, for instance, that Clinton was a "good" president because we had eight years of peace and prosperity. But George W. Bush was "bad" because we had war and a recession at the end of his eight years. Yet, Bush's problems pale in comparison to those that afflicted the country during other presidencies, even of those that were considered "great." My point is that a great number of people are using a bad set of measurements to judge president's by. Nothing anyone has said here disproves that point.(And no, I'm not arguing that Bush was a "great" president or even a "good" one. I believe history will judge him to be mediocre.) I know someone can do better than this.

[Hey Chico]

Community Agitator wrote:

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Steve has an amazing understanding of what Communism and Socialism are Frank. I think it is you who don't understand what they represent - If you did understand, you would have though twice before voting for Obozo the magic Marxist.
You will one day have to apologize to your children's children for destroying America and their lives - You will say you made the mistake of voting for Barack Obama.

My father already apologized for voting for Bush. And have a teacher and a co worker of my mom who say the same.

Your dream that Obama fails means little compared to the reality of what has happened. People regret Bush already. Keep dreamin.

[Hey Chico]

All of you can argue about Lincoln and habeaus corpus (as if you conservatives really care about bending the constitution) but anyhow its funny that they always love to mention that Lincoln was the original Republican, and talk of the Party of Lincoln.

"I don't believe in a law to prevent a man from getting rich; it would do more harm than good.[But] while we do not propose any war upon capital, we do wish to allow the humblest man an equal chance to get rich with everybody else." Abraham Lincoln.

Lincoln was rather moderate, rather even progressive. The extreme socialism that you all cry about tries to make everyone make the same amount of money, to have no class distinction but that collective society. You all can say that Obama is a marxist but face it, Republicans were calling Clinton a socialist, and we all know that Clinton turned us into a Communist country right? Yea right...meanwhile Bush bails out the banks....wonderful.

Lincoln believed that the rich have a right to be rich, that we shouldnt prevent them from being rich, but that everyone should have an equal chance to do well, maybe even become rich too. Now higher taxes for the rich perhaps is considered "unfair" But does that really not allow the rich to remain rich? Hardly. And why is trying to help middle class working people who have an equal shot not at becoming rich at the hands of the government but to have work and to be able to have affordable energy, health insurance such a problem?

Face it, "The Party of Lincoln" has abandoned Lincoln. Meanwhile most Republicans have no idea apparently that Reagan raised taxes several times during his term, increased the amount of people on the federal payroll, and promised to cut the education and energy department but never did that and instead added a new department, Veterans Affairs. Not to mention he always labeled social security as a "New deal big government" waste and talked of private accounts like Bush has but bailed out social security and thus helped make social security an established accepted American program. So people that scratch their heads at how Bush didnt stand up to true conservatism need to look back and realize that Reagan didnt either.

I'm sure I'll get no responses to this other than the typical pathetic claims that everything is always Democrats fault and Republicans never ever do anything wrong.

[Longenschlong]

Ever see the cartoon that shows Lincoln all hung over after a drunk and he says "I freed what last night?"...Screw Lincoln..The man and the rotten little hamlet named the same...Word

[ace6190]

John Williams wrote:

Lincoln was a very accomplished lawyer who handled a wide variety of cases. the matters he handled ranged from criminal cases , including murder cases, civil trials, collection cases and appeals to the Illinois Supreme Court. On several occasions he had to sue his own cliets to collect his fee. He won every one of those. He sometimes took land in exchange for his fee and at the time of his death owned property all over Illinois.
Little known fact- Lincoln also handled foreclosure cases. As an attorney, he handled over 250 foreclosure cases. In most of these he represented banks or people who were owed money on mortgages and were not being paid. It is fair to say that he kicked more than a few deadbeats off some property. In short he was a good lawyer. He made sure that his clients got paid and that he did too.

Also Lincoln was a surveyor My Great Grand Father was a friend and business partner of Lincoln's for several years in Logan and Sangamon Co, Illinois between the two of them they laid out many of both county's land plots and borders. Lincoln was well liked ,hard working ,honest and trust worthy. He worked a lot in Logan Co and was loved in Logan Co. They liked him so much they named the very first town after him even before he was president.