YDR Opinion: Compromise on service dog

YDR Opinion: Compromise on service dog

There are 80 comments on the The York Daily Record story from Nov 19, 2010, titled YDR Opinion: Compromise on service dog. In it, The York Daily Record reports that:

To Kaitlyn Gennaro, a 7-year-old New Freedom girl who has autism, Phillip is a godsend.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The York Daily Record.

First Prev
of 4
Next Last
OFFENDED

New Freedom, PA

#63 Nov 22, 2010
Mom Of Allergic Child wrote:
I do have children. And I agree with Tired! If this person's child is such a problem for adults who are trained to handle these situations, then that child needs a school or class that is designed specifically for their needs. I read the other day that parents were mad because their autistic child was kicked out of school because of his repeated violence towards his peers. A child should not fear going to school! Get real!
<quoted text>
That statement was directed to the Tired Of manipulations persons Nasty comments!!! Not yours!!
Gribstone

Nottingham, MD

#64 Nov 22, 2010
I guess Tired decided he/she was tired of the first screenname.
Oh well.
Tricia

Shrewsbury, PA

#65 Nov 22, 2010
Mom Of Allergic Child wrote:
I do have children. And I agree with Tired! If this person's child is such a problem for adults who are trained to handle these situations, then that child needs a school or class that is designed specifically for their needs. I read the other day that parents were mad because their autistic child was kicked out of school because of his repeated violence towards his peers. A child should not fear going to school! Get real!
<quoted text>
I am sorry, but I need to set the record straight here. Kaitlyn is not violent, and to try to use this as an excuse to get her out of the classroom is ridiculous. A huge part of the problem is the adults and teachers that are trained to help her don't take the time to do it.Rather than helping her, they place labels on her that aren't fair. Just as every human is different, every child with autism will be different. There is no one size fits all approach. If your child learned best using one method of teaching, but the classroom teacher refused to use this method simply because your child was the only child that learned this way I am sure you would be irate, and justifiably so. This is the same situation with Kaitlyn; Phillip helps her feel the safety and security she requires in order to learn effectively. He also assists her in picking up on clues from classmates and teachers that help her respond appropriately. I am not sure what types of values some of the you teach your children, but it appears compassion and empathy are not included. My only hope for you is that your own child is never the one singled out, for something they have no control over.
Mimi

New Freedom, PA

#66 Nov 23, 2010
Ok Genius Roxie, I have attached both posts where you contradict yourself. In one reply you state that Autism is not a psychological disorder & that it is a neuro developmental disability. The with all of your WORLDLY knowledge you proceed to paste the definition of a service dog which CLEARY STATES "psychiatric and neurological disabilities by preventing or interrupting impulsive or destructive behaviors" OK took that right from your quote. If you had ever actually experienced a child with autism you would KNOW that they have impulsive and/or destructive behaviors. Children with autism can and do have these behaviors IN CLASS which is more destructive to the other children trying to learn than a dog sitting under the desk would do. They are trained to diffuse the situation before it escalates. SO YOU REALLY OUGHT TO DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH AND LEARN HOW TO COMPREHEND WHAT YOU READ BEFORE SPOUTING OFF YOUR IGNORANT AND INCORRECT "KNOWLEDGE".

THIS IS THE ADA DEFINITION OF SERVICE DOG
*please note that "assisting" a person having a seizure is stated - NOT "alerting"
I sure hop you take the time to read this, and begin to understand about SD's
New Service Animal Law published in Federal Register July 23, 2010 will take effect March 15, 2011
http://www.ada.gov/regs2010/titleII_2010/reg2...
Service animal means any dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of an individual with a disability, including a physical, sensory, psychiatric, intellectual, or other mental disability. Other species of animals, whether wild or domestic, trained or untrained, are not service animals for the purposes of this definition. The work or tasks performed by a service animal must be directly related to the handlerīs disability. Examples of work or tasks include, but are not limited to, assisting individuals who are blind or have low vision with navigation and other tasks, alerting individuals who are deaf or hard of hearing to the presence of people or sounds, providing non-violent protection or rescue work, pulling a wheelchair, assisting an individual during a seizure, alerting individuals to the presence of allergens, retrieving items such as medicine or the telephone, providing physical support and assistance with balance and stability to individuals with mobility disabilities, and helping persons with psychiatric and neurological disabilities by preventing or interrupting impulsive or destructive behaviors. The crime deterrent effects of an animalīs presence and the provision of emotional support, well-being, comfort, or companionship do not constitute work or tasks for the purposes of this definition.
Miniature horses are now allowed Service Animal status.
Exotic, wild and farm animals are no longer Assistance Animals.
Psychiatric Service Animals are specifically mentioned and provide service to persons disabled by mental illnesses.

Sherri Krick wrote:
It seems the school district is dicriminating against Kaitlyn because she has a psychological disability vs a physical disability. I suggest the district officials seek education on psychological disabilities ... sometimes they can be as crippling as a physical disability. If Kaitlyn was blind Phillip would be allowed in school without a second thought. If Phillip is trained to interrupt and calm Kaitlyn to avoid a "meltdown" then Phillip is a service dog. My prayer for Kaitlyn is that she will be allowed to have Phillip with her in school and that she will also receive other therapy to help her to eventually calm herself down before a meltdown ensues. I pray for Kaitlyn's parents to have the strength to continue to pursue what they feel is best for their daughter.

Autism is not a psychological disability. It is a NeuroDevelopmental Disability. It would be so helpful if people would research and check their opinions before they express them as a fact and mislead others who have no clue regading the issues in this case
Anonymous

New Freedom, PA

#67 Nov 23, 2010
To all of the IGNORANT JACK HOLE'S that do not know how to respond appropriately to the topic at hand - get a life & find some better things to do with your time. If you have an opinion you are entitled, but for the immature losers that can have nothing better to do than try to harass and bully MY family, know this - you are wasting your time. The topic is not whether or not Kaitlyn's parents are perfect but whether or not the school is legally allowed to deny a certified service dog into the school. Opinions are one thing, the law is another. But taking personal shots about a 7 year old is not only sick, but pathetic. I'm embarrassed for you all. You should take a look at your own kids and be thankful that this isn't your fight. No one knows how this will pan out but now we all know just how many narcissistic,ignorant and sadly, how many uneducated people are still living in our society.
George

Washington, DC

#68 Nov 23, 2010
Laurie - New Freedom wrote:
To all of the IGNORANT JACK HOLE'S that do not know how to respond appropriately to the topic at hand - get a life & find some better things to do with your time. If you have an opinion you are entitled, but for the immature losers that can have nothing better to do than try to harass and bully MY family, know this - you are wasting your time. The topic is not whether or not Kaitlyn's parents are perfect but whether or not the school is legally allowed to deny a certified service dog into the school. Opinions are one thing, the law is another. But taking personal shots about a 7 year old is not only sick, but pathetic. I'm embarrassed for you all. You should take a look at your own kids and be thankful that this isn't your fight. No one knows how this will pan out but now we all know just how many narcissistic,ignorant and sadly, how many uneducated people are still living in our society.
GREAT post!!!!!!!!
IT IS ME

New Freedom, PA

#69 Nov 23, 2010
Laurie - New Freedom wrote:
To all of the IGNORANT JACK HOLE'S that do not know how to respond appropriately to the topic at hand - get a life & find some better things to do with your time. If you have an opinion you are entitled, but for the immature losers that can have nothing better to do than try to harass and bully MY family, know this - you are wasting your time. The topic is not whether or not Kaitlyn's parents are perfect but whether or not the school is legally allowed to deny a certified service dog into the school. Opinions are one thing, the law is another. But taking personal shots about a 7 year old is not only sick, but pathetic. I'm embarrassed for you all. You should take a look at your own kids and be thankful that this isn't your fight. No one knows how this will pan out but now we all know just how many narcissistic,ignorant and sadly, how many uneducated people are still living in our society.
I would like to say THANK YOU!!!! Well Said!! LOVE YOU!!! Catherine
Roxie

Lincoln, NE

#70 Nov 23, 2010
The contention is not the child's disability label. The problem is that the child is too immature to steward and manage the responsibilities of handling a SD consistently and correctly... at this point in her developmental stage. If a handler can not steward and manage a SD that precludes the person from having public access with that SD. An age or IQ or developmentally functioning level is not mentioned in the ADA. However: the ADA is very clear on the handler's ability to handle and steward their SD. Let the girl grow up a bit and mature, so she can have a successful and supported SD experience. Use the dog at home for comfort and calming, and let her teachers teach the child at school how to calm herself and stay focused. She has a long life ahead of her. She can always use a SD later when she is a fw years older. Mimi: you are more screwed up in your head than I care to deal with further.
Roxie

Lincoln, NE

#71 Nov 23, 2010
Sherri - NO. Phil the dog would NOT be allowed in school with the girl if she were blind. There are no recognized Guide Dog Schools that place Guide Dogs with children that young. She has about another 9 years to go if she were blind to get a Guide Dog.
George

Washington, DC

#72 Nov 23, 2010
Roxie wrote:
The contention is not the child's disability label. The problem is that the child is too immature to steward and manage the responsibilities of handling a SD consistently and correctly... at this point in her developmental stage. If a handler can not steward and manage a SD that precludes the person from having public access with that SD. An age or IQ or developmentally functioning level is not mentioned in the ADA. However: the ADA is very clear on the handler's ability to handle and steward their SD. Let the girl grow up a bit and mature, so she can have a successful and supported SD experience. Use the dog at home for comfort and calming, and let her teachers teach the child at school how to calm herself and stay focused. She has a long life ahead of her. She can always use a SD later when she is a fw years older. Mimi: you are more screwed up in your head than I care to deal with further.
Are the teachers trained and compitent to do that. The girl can be taught how to handle the dog the same way the dog can be taught to assist her!
Roxie

Lincoln, NE

#73 Nov 23, 2010
George wrote:
<quoted text>Are the teachers trained and compitent to do that. The girl can be taught how to handle the dog the same way the dog can be taught to assist her!
Whew! I see. After many experienced people in the areas of child development, special needs, school laws, disability advocacy, Service Dogs training and use have taken the time and effort to try to help you with your endeavor by providing you with accurate information, you still choose to cling to magical thinking.
Guess no one can help you. Good luck.
Smithcat

Eugene, OR

#74 Nov 23, 2010
Sherri Krick wrote:
If Kaitlyn was blind Phillip would be allowed in school without a second thought.
OK...one more time......there are no guide dogs given to children as young as Kaitlyn by any of the legitimate guide dog providers in the USA. You will not find any young child in school with a guide dog. The attempt at comparison is flawed because it is untrue.

Now, as to WHY there are no guide dogs provided to young children. A child is incapable of properly handling a guide dog. In order to use a guide dog, one must have the ability to travel independently using the white cane, which is a prerequisite for obtaining a guide dog from any of the legitimate providers. The person must already have the knowledge of how to travel independently, otherwise all a guide dog would do is get their handler lost twice as fast. The average O&M training term is around 6 to 12 months, depending on the different travel situations and circumstances one encounters. After a person has mastered Orientation and Mobility (O&M) training with the white cane, they may apply to any of the guide providers which will then require the person to attend a 3 week in-residence training course on how to use their guide. After the O&M and guide provider training has been completed, then the person can confidently use their guide in the public venue. None of the guide providers will place a guide dog with anyone under the age of 16 years old and only after having completed O&M and guide dog use training.

That is why you will not find 7 year olds in any school with a guide dog.
Tom Gennaro

New Freedom, PA

#75 Nov 24, 2010
Smithcat wrote:
<quoted text>
OK...one more time......there are no guide dogs given to children as young as Kaitlyn by any of the legitimate guide dog providers in the USA. You will not find any young child in school with a guide dog. The attempt at comparison is flawed because it is untrue.
Now, as to WHY there are no guide dogs provided to young children. A child is incapable of properly handling a guide dog. In order to use a guide dog, one must have the ability to travel independently using the white cane, which is a prerequisite for obtaining a guide dog from any of the legitimate providers. The person must already have the knowledge of how to travel independently, otherwise all a guide dog would do is get their handler lost twice as fast. The average O&M training term is around 6 to 12 months, depending on the different travel situations and circumstances one encounters. After a person has mastered Orientation and Mobility (O&M) training with the white cane, they may apply to any of the guide providers which will then require the person to attend a 3 week in-residence training course on how to use their guide. After the O&M and guide provider training has been completed, then the person can confidently use their guide in the public venue. None of the guide providers will place a guide dog with anyone under the age of 16 years old and only after having completed O&M and guide dog use training.
That is why you will not find 7 year olds in any school with a guide dog.
I completely agree that alot of work goes into someone learning how to use a guide dog which is why the standards for someone to receive a GUIDE DOG. Phillip Isn't A GUIDE DOG he is a SERVICE DOG that performs task for his handler. Wouldnt you agree that the two service animals perform different tasks for their different handlers? and as such Kaitlyn wouldnt get lost due to her SERVICE DOG because she can see and direct him Where as someone with no sight is dependent on that dog for direction? I am not an expert on any service dog but it seems to me that these service animals perform different tasks for different people for different reason and maybe they can be used for someone at any age if the dog and handler ARE capable of working together. Now phillip has undergone 2 years of training at different levels upto advanced training with Susquehanna service dogs for a mininum of six months and kaitlyn went through 2 and half weeks of training with phillip to learn how to use him and vice versa " which you know that training never stops and they continue training" 2 of those weeks they were together 24/7. now all the people who were vested in this including his puppy raisers, trainers and everyone else from Susquehanna Service dog, If they saw a problem or that kaitlyn couldnt handle him on her own for the tasks needed or that they think she may harm him in any way that they would have said, no Way? you seem to know more about service animals than I do by all the comments you have left and although we may not agree on this issue doesn't mean I cant learn from your knowledge, If you have any suggestions I would love to hear them, just because we disagree doesnt mean your input would be ignored. god bless Happy Thanks Giving....T.G
Roxie

Lincoln, NE

#76 Nov 24, 2010
Here is a link that may be helpful. http://www.wrightslaw.com/info/section504.ada...

"In meeting the responsibilities to students with disabilities under Section 504 and Title II of the ADA, school systems must make accommodations and modifications to address the needs of students with disabilities. 5 Making accommodations and modifications means changing the way things are usually done in order to take into account a child's disability-related needs. Examples of accommodations and modifications include modifying rules, policies or practices; removing architectural or communication barriers; or providing aids, services, or assistive technology."

Under Section 504, children with disabilities must be educated with their nondisabled peers "to the maximum extent appropriate," and "removal ... from the regular educational environment" occurs "only when the nature or severity of the disability is such that education in regular classes with the use of supplementary aids and services cannot be achieved satisfactorily." 6

1 34 C.F.R.§104.4(b)(1)(§504 regulation); 28 U.S.C.§35.130(b)(1)(ADA regulation).
2 34 C.F.R.§104.4(b)(2); 28 C.F.R.§35.130(b)(iii).
3 34 C.F.R.§104.33.
4 34 C.F.R.§104.4(b)(4); 28 C.F.R.§35.130(b)(3).
5 See 42 U.S.C. 12131(2); 34 C.F.R. 104.4(b); 28 C.F.R. 35.130(b)(7); Alexander v. Choate, 469 U.S. 287, 300-01 (1985); Thomas v. Davidson Academy, 846 F. Supp. 611 (M.D. Tenn. 1994).
6 34 C.F.R.§104.34(a).
7 28 C.F.R.§35.130(d). See also 28 C.F.R.§35.130(b)(2)("[a] public entity may not deny a qualified individual with a disability the opportunity to participate in services, programs, or activities that are not separate or different, despite the existence of permissibly separate or different programs or activities").
8 34 C.F.R.§104.34(a).
9 In addition, 1997 amendments to the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act require states to develop "performance goals and indicators" for children with disabilities that are consistent, to the maximum extent appropriate, with the standards set by the state for all students. 20 U.S.C.§1412(a)(16).
uncle jeff

Brooklyn, NY

#77 Nov 25, 2010
how about this instead of being straight out ignorant about this the school should give it a good month trial i mean he is a lagit service dog phil provides kay the comfert she needs to be just like the other children let timmy have her lassie so to say whats the big deal i mean blind people are alowed there dogs def people get signers why cant an autistic person have his or her service dog why because you dont understand or because you refuse to understand i mean the family is rasing a child with autisum do you know how hard that is now they can get the dog to make life a lil easier since the last what tom 7 years or so was hell here and there isnt it bad enough that her mom has to worry every day if she is gonna be fine that day at school while she isnt there to comfert her because shes at work erning the money that keeps the family together or her father whos busting his ass to put food on the table iam sure if they could they would sit there all day with kay and keep her comf. but they cant they earned that dog through hard work to make there daughters life easier a lug. we and most people take for granted and you people wont even give her a chance. well happy holiday to you all oh look thers an old ladie with a cane maybe one of you want to kick it out from her
uncle jeff

Brooklyn, NY

#78 Nov 25, 2010
oh and for all the jack holes who think my niece is violent thats not the case she is a lovable sweet heart of a girl with a heart bigger than all of you combined since you are all so computer savy go goggle autisum watch the videos read the reports look at the parents and then look at your children and imagian imagian your self in there shoes then come back and type a message so to all the ignorant jack hole @$# dumpsters picking on a little girl... cause thats what your doing you picking on her making her seem diffrent shes no diffrent that the kid whos eatting glue or the kid who steels the other kids lunches and eats them or the bully we all know from our time they got what help they needed quietly why cant she????
uncle jeff

Brooklyn, NY

#79 Nov 25, 2010
GIVE HER A CHANCE
Spectacle

Fair Lawn, NJ

#80 Nov 27, 2010
Shame on you.
Roxie

Lincoln, NE

#81 Nov 27, 2010
My approach would be: 1) have my child learn to manage a SD at home first for a month or so... or at least until I was sure my child was able to cue and correct her SD. That way I would be confident the school could not find a louphole to bar the SD under ADA law by reason of my child not being able to manage dog re: safety - hygeine - behavior - bowel/bladder evacuation - etc during the school day.

During that time I'd hold meetings with IEP team and include her therapists and letters from her physicians and specialists in developing an IEP that states she have her SD in school and in all school sponsored activities with her at all times. I would educate the stuffin's out of all the para's - teachers - pt's - ot's - peers in class - lunch room staff - bussing staff - nurse.
I would develop a Master Plan for SD Integration and include a plan (response) for all the common questions and concerns, and include a FEMA plan also.(This has proven to be successful in NV and NE public schools).

I would also be filing Sect 504 complaint simultaneously if there was any resistance from the school district. I would request a copy of the school district's policy on Service Dogs for students, staff, and visitors. If one does not exist I would write one and present it to the school board for immediate discussion and adoption, as an emergency exists without such policy.

I would also seek any case law regarding children using SD's in public schools.. or news articles on successful integration of SD's in other public schools.

Just some ideas. You probably have done all of the above, but just thought I'd let you know what has been working in other parts of the US.

You might want to research Omaha World Herald news articles on Kerr and Tinkerbell.(2008-2010) Tink is successfully working for a young child (different disability) in small town public school.
Country Boy

Greencastle, PA

#82 Nov 29, 2010
BUT your all are missing the point. The schools today
and most NOT ALL of the teachers could give a damn about any child that take a real teacher to do their job. The School Boards and teacher alike only care about when the vacation start and we need more money.
My only Question is why due we spend so much on things like all the sports and anything else they can come up with this to spend our OUR tax money for.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 4
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

New Freedom Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Danger in Jim Thorpe? May 19 Midas Touch 4
Old brick building near rail trail in Railroad (Apr '14) May 12 deg17361 2
New Freedom Hobby Shop seeks business grant May 12 deg17361 1
New royal farms store (Sep '14) May 8 Bill 2
News Former cashier charged with assault says racial... (Feb '11) May 7 BillyBobb 150
News Maryland man charged with stabbing man at Stewa... Jan '15 joe 2
News Lawmaker supports new Donora-Webster Bridge (Apr '10) Jan '15 Tom 4
More from around the web

New Freedom People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]