Nauvoo a Battleground Again

Helen and Rocky Hulse, outside the Nauvoo Christian Visitors Center in Nauvoo, Ill., are bent on portraying Mormonism as a false religion.

[Nauvoo Christian]

The Chicago Tribune reported this article on April 15, 2007, It was titled "Mormon Nauvoo"... just those two words sum up the feelings in this town and fear that can't be spoken out loud by non-Mormons, who have lived here before the Mormons came and for years after they went to Utah. This is Nauvoo, Il and it does not belong to the Mormons but to anyone who chooses to live here.

[Rodney King]

Nauvoo Christian wrote:

The Chicago Tribune reported this article on April 15, 2007, It was titled "Mormon Nauvoo"... just those two words sum up the feelings in this town and fear that can't be spoken out loud by non-Mormons, who have lived here before the Mormons came and for years after they went to Utah. This is Nauvoo, Il and it does not belong to the Mormons but to anyone who chooses to live here.

Are you bent on portraying Mormonism as a false religion? Contention breeds contention. If you are not "bent on portraying Mormonism as a false religion", you have nothing to get worked up about.
You are right, Nauvoo does not belong to the Mormons. Just because they buy property doesn't mean you need to get "all worked up". It is simple human nature to feel threatened by things/people that are "not like us". However, if you try, you might find that these Mormons can be some of your best friends and neighbors - don't live in the past, make a better future!

[Rodney King]

Nauvoo Christian wrote:

The Chicago Tribune reported this article on April 15, 2007, It was titled "Mormon Nauvoo"... just those two words sum up the feelings in this town and fear that can't be spoken out loud by non-Mormons, who have lived here before the Mormons came and for years after they went to Utah. This is Nauvoo, Il and it does not belong to the Mormons but to anyone who chooses to live here.

When you say "fear that can't be spoken out loud by non-Mormons", what do you mean? Do your really believe there is some sort of 150 year old vendetta in store for the citizens of Nauvoo? If so, you really don't know the LDS of today. You are also doing yourself and the citizens of Nauvoo a disservice by digging up old wounds.
There's a saying, "Forgiveness is giving up all hope for a better past". Historically speaking, there was a lot of suffering on the Mormons part (in regard to Nauvoo). I'm certain that the Mormons do not want to relive this.- again, be mindful of the past; make a better future.

[Proud to be ex-LDS]

"However, if you try, you might find that these Mormons can be some of your best friends and neighbors - don't live in the past, make a better future!"

Sure, live in Utah and the minute the ward members find out that you do not attend the local ward you are ostracised in the neighborhood. Forget about getting to know your neighbors. Your the devil.

Meanwhile they all come home after sacrament and then go to Chili's and Apple-bee's for dinner. Boy what a great example.

[Rodney King]

Proud to be ex-LDS wrote:

"However, if you try, you might find that these Mormons can be some of your best friends and neighbors - don't live in the past, make a better future!"
Sure, live in Utah and the minute the ward members find out that you do not attend the local ward you are ostracised in the neighborhood. Forget about getting to know your neighbors. Your the devil.
Meanwhile they all come home after sacrament and then go to Chili's and Apple-bee's for dinner. Boy what a great example.

Here "B" let me help you with that thorn in your side. I will talk to you; take a load of. What can I do for you. We can be friends (and I'm a Mormon - gasp).

Seacrest Out

[Nauvoo Christian]

Rodney King wrote:

<quoted text>
Are you bent on portraying Mormonism as a false religion? Contention breeds contention. If you are not "bent on portraying Mormonism as a false religion", you have nothing to get worked up about.
You are right, Nauvoo does not belong to the Mormons. Just because they buy property doesn't mean you need to get "all worked up". It is simple human nature to feel threatened by things/people that are "not like us". However, if you try, you might find that these Mormons can be some of your best friends and neighbors - don't live in the past, make a better future!

I do not need to live in the past, I live in Nauvoo in the present...it might do you well to subscribe to "The New Independent" Nauvoo's local newspaper and read it. When you have a temple Mormon calling your husband "mendacious" rather than discuss an issue, then I don't think you know much about Mormon's being good neighbors, unless you are one.

[Nauvoo Christian]

Proud to be ex-LDS wrote:

"However, if you try, you might find that these Mormons can be some of your best friends and neighbors - don't live in the past, make a better future!"
Sure, live in Utah and the minute the ward members find out that you do not attend the local ward you are ostracised in the neighborhood. Forget about getting to know your neighbors. Your the devil.
Meanwhile they all come home after sacrament and then go to Chili's and Apple-bee's for dinner. Boy what a great example.

Well said, thank you...no need to add anything!

[Rodney King]

Nauvoo Christian wrote:

<quoted text>
I do not need to live in the past, I live in Nauvoo in the present...it might do you well to subscribe to "The New Independent" Nauvoo's local newspaper and read it. When you have a temple Mormon calling your husband "mendacious" rather than discuss an issue, then I don't think you know much about Mormon's being good neighbors, unless you are one.

If you look hard enough, you can always find what you're looking for. What are you "looking for"?

[Rodney King]

Nauvoo Christian wrote:

<quoted text>
I do not need to live in the past, I live in Nauvoo in the present...it might do you well to subscribe to "The New Independent" Nauvoo's local newspaper and read it. When you have a temple Mormon calling your husband "mendacious" rather than discuss an issue, then I don't think you know much about Mormon's being good neighbors, unless you are one.

OK - I could be wrong. But I get the feeling you aren't just looking for some good Mormon friends? In fact....???

[Rodney King]

Nauvoo Christian wrote:

<quoted text>
Well said, thank you...no need to add anything!

men·da·cious
:given to or characterized by deception or falsehood or divergence from absolute truth.

Care to elaborate on why they would use this word?

[Rodney King]

Nauvoo Christian wrote:

<quoted text>
I do not need to live in the past, I live in Nauvoo in the present...it might do you well to subscribe to "The New Independent" Nauvoo's local newspaper and read it. When you have a temple Mormon calling your husband "mendacious" rather than discuss an issue, then I don't think you know much about Mormon's being good neighbors, unless you are one.

I see on your BIO that your neighborhood is listed as "1.5 miles from Mormon Temple" and that your local favorites is "Truth Outreach" CTN-WTJR Channel 16.

Could it be that you have a ministry designated for the sole purpose of....???

[aiki_mcr]

Rodney King wrote:

<quoted text>
I see on your BIO that your neighborhood is listed as "1.5 miles from Mormon Temple"

Well, he clearly has a vested interest. He's the guy mentioned in the article with the mission against Mormonism. So, honestly, his credibility on this board is suspect.

As an ex-mormon I think he has a bit of an axe to grind. It would be one thing for him to simply forsake his former religion and embrace a new one. But to go on the attack against his former religion smacks of guilt and shame turned to a vengeance motive.

I was going to say something fairly mean-spirited here, but realized that by doing so I become the thing I am condemning in his behavior.

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
Friedrich Nietzsche

[Rodney King]

aiki_mcr wrote:

<quoted text>
Well, he clearly has a vested interest. He's the guy mentioned in the article with the mission against Mormonism. So, honestly, his credibility on this board is suspect.
As an ex-mormon I think he has a bit of an axe to grind. It would be one thing for him to simply forsake his former religion and embrace a new one. But to go on the attack against his former religion smacks of guilt and shame turned to a vengeance motive.
I was going to say something fairly mean-spirited here, but realized that by doing so I become the thing I am condemning in his behavior.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.
Friedrich Nietzsche

I would concur.

Bono used the "Monster" qoute in one of his songs "Peace on Earth":
U2
Album: All That You Can't Leave Behind

Heaven on Earth, we need it now
I'm sick of all of this hanging around
Sick of sorrow, sick of the pain
I'm sick of hearing again and again
That there's gonna be peace on Earth

Where I grew up there weren't many trees
Where there was we'd tear them down
And use them on our enemies
They say that what you mock
Will surely overtake you
And you become a monster
So the monster will not break you

And it's already gone too far
Who said that if you go in hard
You won't get hurt?

Jesus can you take the time
To throw a drowning man a line
Peace on Earth
Tell the ones who hear no sound
Whose sons are living in the ground
Peace on Earth
No whos or whys
No one cries like a mother cries
For peace on Earth
She never got to say goodbye
To see the color in his eyes
Now he's in the dirt
Peace on Earth

They're reading names out over the radio
All the folks the rest of us won't get to know
Sean and Julia, Gareth and Ann and Breda
Their lives are bigger than any big idea

Jesus can you take the time
To throw a drowning man a line
Peace on Earth
To tell the ones who hear no sound
Whose sons are living in the ground
Peace on Earth
Jesus sing a song you wrote
The words are sticking in my throat
Peace on Earth
Hear it every Christmas time
But hope and history won't rhyme
So what's it worth
This peace on Earth

**********

Not enough peace on Earth - and history repeats itself.....

[aiki_mcr]

Jesus taught love. So many people who call themselves Christians forget this.

Although it is important to remember, I think, that (to paraphrase a quote I'm fond of) love often looks more like a smack in the back of the head than a group hug.

[Rodney King]

aiki_mcr wrote:

Jesus taught love. So many people who call themselves Christians forget this.
Although it is important to remember, I think, that (to paraphrase a quote I'm fond of) love often looks more like a smack in the back of the head than a group hug.

Why would love "look like a smack on the back of the head?" Tough love?

[aiki_mcr]

Rodney King wrote:

<quoted text>
Why would love "look like a smack on the back of the head?" Tough love?

You're on the right track.

If someone you love is doing something self destructive, you sometimes need to be pretty tough on them to help them. There are limits, though. If your attempt to help is also destructive, well, time to rethink.

So maybe I used the wrong visual.

[Rodney King]

aiki_mcr wrote:

<quoted text>
You're on the right track.
If someone you love is doing something self destructive, you sometimes need to be pretty tough on them to help them. There are limits, though. If your attempt to help is also destructive, well, time to rethink.
So maybe I used the wrong visual.

I agree, open discussion on concepts and doctrines are healthy, however, there is a line.

Crossing the line of provocation if you will.

I have a good friend who I guess one would classify as a "born-again". We've had many discussions regarding Mormonism and/or Christianity. However, we've always put our friendship first. Therefor, a spirit of love and friendship prevails.

[aiki_mcr]

Rodney,

I think my point about what love looks like is that I am *not* a cosmic muffin who believes you always have to be nice in order to be loving. If my kid is doing something stupid which is going to get him hurt, I won't necessarily be nice about correcting him.

But I *will* be motivated by love.

I remain convinced that many evangelical Christians are motivated by revenge, hate or guilt rather than love. Which is in direct violation of their own espoused belief system.

Pity, really.

[Proud to be ex-LDS]

"I remain convinced that many evangelical Christians are motivated by revenge, hate or guilt rather than love. Which is in direct violation of their own espoused belief system."

Wow, someone else has the same theory I do!

[Rodney King]

aiki_mcr wrote:

Rodney,
I think my point about what love looks like is that I am *not* a cosmic muffin who believes you always have to be nice in order to be loving. If my kid is doing something stupid which is going to get him hurt, I won't necessarily be nice about correcting him.
But I *will* be motivated by love.
I remain convinced that many evangelical Christians are motivated by revenge, hate or guilt rather than love. Which is in direct violation of their own espoused belief system.
Pity, really.

In concept, I think we basically agree.

However, I believe there is a difference between being firm and being mean; many get the two confused.

I realize you didn't say "mean", so I'm assuming that you mean basically the same thing.