Wallyworld (walmart) at Napanoch
Steve K

Hurleyville, NY

#41 Dec 5, 2009
Why do you equate Walmart with "progress"? It's just a dinosaur of a big box store that siphons money OUT OF the local economy, doesn't put money back INTO the local economy (they don't use local lawyers, accountants, insurance agents, banks, printers, newspapers, restaurants, etc.), they increase poverty, lower wage standards, increase crime and call for police services, drain county welfare funds, reduce property values, destroy existing local jobs and businesses, and take control of the local economy out of local hands and put our economic destiny in the hands of a rapacious predator that cares nothing about us except as sheep to be fleeced. Hardly progress!

Go to w-e-r-d.org to see WHY people oppose a WM here! You can't SHOP your way to prosperity! Stores don't create wealth (except for the stockholders) or any product to generate surplus capital, but simply SIPHON cash from the local cash pool.
Lyle Irw North Carolina

Raleigh, NC

#42 Dec 20, 2009
I hear, done deal is this true?
Steve K

Hurleyville, NY

#43 Dec 27, 2009
Nope, still in limbo, awaiting judge's decision on whether he will proceed with hearings or issue a summary ruling.

Nothing's a "done deal" until it's DONE, i.e., the doors are open and the registers are ringing. Even then, it ain't a done deal; WM can pick up and leave if they don't like the lack of profits.
NAPANOCHER

Raleigh, NC

#44 Dec 31, 2009
By Adam Bosch
Times Herald-Record
Posted: December 30, 2009 - 2:00 AM
WAWARSING — More than 450 people in this town are telling ShopRite to back off.
The regional grocery chain filed a lawsuit in April aimed at stopping Walmart from building a 140,000-square-foot supercenter in the hamlet of Napanoch, about 2 miles outside of Ellenville. Now ShopRite, which has a store in Ellenville, is getting an earful from residents who hoped Walmart would bring jobs, traffic and more shoppers to this economically depressed area.
“Our goal is to stop ShopRite from further litigation,” said Bella Volchik, who's led a letter-writing campaign out of her Valley Wines & Liquors store.“We need the big fish to come and make a splash so that others can feed off the crumbs.”
Walmart supporters collected 457 signatures as of Dec. 21. Folks from Accord, Grahamsville and other nearby hamlets signed form letters that were individually sent to Wakefern Food Corp., ShopRite's parent company. The letters asked ShopRite to drop its lawsuit and “join the community in the process of surviving and moving forward.”
Walmart filed a stipulation in state Supreme Court saying it would not build until the lawsuit was settled. A ShopRite spokeswoman said Tuesday that the company would soon send a response letter to those who've decried the suit.
In court papers, ShopRite and the group Wawarsing-Ellenville for Responsible Development accused the town of wrongfully skipping a long-form review that would have forced tougher scrutiny of Walmart's impact on traffic, crime and the local economy.
“We think the process should be followed,” said Karen Meleta, ShopRite's spokeswoman.“There will definitely be economic and environmental impacts, and all those should be considered.”
Locally, ShopRite has a history of suing companies that threaten its market share. Over the past decade, the company has sued in New Windsor and Thompson to stall competitors, and it hired engineers to warn the feds that a new Hannaford supermarket in Warwick could threaten endangered bog turtles. All the lawsuits were unsuccessful.
In Wawarsing, the legal impasse has sparked a sometimes-heated discussion about how to revive a region that's lost many of its big employers, including the Imperial Schrade knife factory and the Nevele Grande resort. Former Supervisor James Dolaway, who gathered signatures in support of Walmart, said the argument boils down to this:“How much worse off can this area be?”
[email protected]
Josh

Gilbert, AZ

#45 Jan 12, 2010
You will be sorry if Wal Mart comes to your community. They pay crap wages, and work their employees 36 hrs a week so they don't have to pay medical insurance. They have all their employees sign up for Medicaid. Wal Mart will close all of your local businesses.
Useyourhead

Middletown, NY

#46 Jan 12, 2010
onemalu from Napanoch wrote:
We have no where to shop. The cost of gasoline is outrageous so we can't afford driving to Middletown or Kingston. I don't want it to crowd out Shop Rite for it is the greatest store anywhere. Prices and quality are wonderful but we need a place to buy simple things: jeans, jackets, slacks. Jamesway and Ames did very well here. Woolworths boomed in Ellenville. Restaurants leave us because often the prices are too high, too unrealistic for Wawarsing. We're for a store, maybe not a giant one but one to suit the needs of the area.
That's fantastic...you're looking for Wal-Mart to solve your local problems? Wow. Why don't you look at other small communities that got a Wal-Mart and see how it affected them. Increase in traffic, crime, etc. Sure, more traffic sounds good at first, until you realize that it doesn't mean more "business" for any other local shop. And, as other's have posted, any local shops that sell anything similar to what's available at Wal-Mart never survive. So, basically you can kiss all the local business good-bye, get one store that has a stranglehold on your town and lots of "out of towners" crowding your quiet streets. As for jobs...who said that once they were there, Wal-Mart would only hire from people in your town? Give it some good thought, you'll see what I mean.
67CAMARO

Rhinebeck, NY

#47 Jan 15, 2010
[IF ALL THESE STORES DID SOOOO WELL WHERE THE FUK ARE THEY NOW?
QUOTE from Napanoch. We have no where to shop. The cost of gasoline is outrageous so we can't afford driving to Middletown or Kingston. I don't want it to crowd out Shop Rite for it is the greatest store anywhere. Prices and quality are wonderful but we need a place to buy simple things: jeans, jackets, slacks. Jamesway and Ames did very well here. Woolworths boomed in Ellenville. Restaurants leave us because often the prices are too high, too unrealistic for Wawarsing. We're for a store, maybe not a giant one but one to suit the needs of the area.
emanu

Rhinebeck, NY

#48 Jan 15, 2010
QUOTE from Napanoch. We have no where to shop. The cost of gasoline is outrageous so we can't afford driving to Middletown or Kingston. I don't want it to crowd out Shop Rite for it is the greatest store anywhere. Prices and quality are wonderful but we need a place to buy simple things: jeans, jackets, slacks. Jamesway and Ames did very well here. Woolworths boomed in Ellenville. Restaurants leave us because often the prices are too high, too unrealistic for Wawarsing. We're for a store, maybe not a giant one but one to suit the needs of the area.
SaW

Rhinebeck, NY

#49 Jan 21, 2010
Im tired of people complaining about the walmart possibly comming in here. it needs to happen. this area was once something, a thriving community full of stores and businesses and now look at it. i love this town... my family goes back over a hundred years and i want it to prosper. the only way that is going to happen is if we get interest in this town. that mall has been sitting practically vacant for years....its time to do something about it because it is a waste of perfectly good space. people also worry that this will drive local businesses out. if you hadnt noticed, the economy now is doing that already and it wont drive everyone away, peters has been here for years and will continue....he has the best meat and produce for miles. lets be honest most people will not buy there meat from walmart anyway because it is bad... they will use it to pick up the items that cant be found around here like clothes entertainment and home items. you cangt even buy aa package of socks in this town. i think it is about time that all the fighting ends and construction gets underway....this town needs something soon!!
Steve K

Hurleyville, NY

#50 Jan 24, 2010
Can't you see the illogic of your position, SaW? HOW would ONE store that by itself siphons $1-1.5 million PER WEEK out of the local economy (roughly 1/3 to 1/2 of the local cash pool), by drawing over 80% of it's sales from existing local stores, help the community "thrive" again and prosper?

After it destroys dozens of businesses, and hundreds of existing jobs, why would any new OUTSIDE businesses come in, knowing what it faced? Have you thought this through, or done the math? I think you haven't.

So the mall has been relatively vacant... blame the owner for NOT doing anything else to fix that, so those like YOU will clamor for ANYTHING to come in, no matter how bad. Is the ONLY solution to bring in a community-destroying big box? I proposed to the owner to re-develop the mall with a community-owned mercantile, which would meet OUR needs, and NOT compete with existing businesses, but rather fill the gaps. He was ORDERED by Walmart's attorneys NOT to talk to me!

The studies show a WM WILL drive businesses to close; so, because things are bad now we should make it WORSE? Where's the logic there? Why do you assume Peters will survive? Because you HOPE it will? Retail Age magazine did a survey in 2003 and determined that a new Walmart, on average, shuts down TWO supermarkets after it opens... we ONLY HAVE TWO!

Peters can't survive just on meat purchases! IF they lose 10, 10, 30% of their sales, how can they survive. Walmart knows how to undercut the competition, and Peters and ShopRite are at the top of their hit list, as the two of them do $500,000 in sales per week, or 1/2 to 1/3 their needed nut.

Of course you can buy socks in town! Maybe you haven't looked! But are you willing to see your community go completely down the drain so you can get cheap Chinese socks at 3 am?

The "something soon" doesn't HAVE to be Walmart! Be careful what you wish for! Hundreds of other communities that let Walmart in have regretted it; we can avoid that sad fate, but not with your surrendering attitude.
Holler Watcher

Gilbert, AZ

#51 Jan 24, 2010
peopleofwalmart.com this is the site all you trailer living holler hillbillies will be on when Walworld opens.
SaW

Rhinebeck, NY

#52 Jan 25, 2010
steve k. it is obvious to me that no matter what anyone says you will hate walmart, that is your perogative. when i said you cant buy socks in this town, i was saying it to make a point that we are seriously lacking in places to buy even simple mechandise. i know where to buy socks in this town, and i bet that those socks being sold are made in china just like eveything else in this country. and you say that you want a community owned mercantile in that mall complex...please tell me how you see this happening. who in this community has the money or the time to make that happen. if you are so interested in somehting like that, whos stopping you from trying to make that happen. its all nice to say that you want these things to happen but come back down to reality. this town has been going down hill for years and will continue to do so until intrest is brought to it. i am not surrendering to walmart, i am simply being realistic in the fact that they are going to build here whether you like it or not. this is just how i feel. you can disagree all you like but you trying to make your self sound smart on a forum is not going to change anything.
bmb

Zephyrhills, FL

#53 Jan 26, 2010
Thank you SaW - Steve has a lot of talk about how
WM would be bad for the area.....

After it destroys dozens of businesses, and hundreds of existing jobs,?????????

What existing jobs? Are there even a dozen buinesses that can offer jobs right now?
Steve K

Hurleyville, NY

#54 Jan 26, 2010
It is obvious to me that no matter how much evidence I present that shows the negative impacts Walmarts have on local economies (go to w-e-r-d.org for overwhelming proof, including articles, studies, documentaries, etc.), there are apologists and willfully stubborn head-in-sands who will refuse to consider it, and go on holding fast to their wishful thinking and denial.

Plenty of "simple merchandise" is now available locally, but how often does one have to buy socks anyway?

A mercantile is a community-owned store where you sell shares TO local residents only. Other mercantiles were set up by selling shares for $500 each, and it is not an impossible thing to find hundreds of people who wish to make that kind of investment in their community; many of the local managers from the old Ames or Jamesway are still around, as are many former workers.

I contacted the CEOs of TWO NY chains that HAD already reopened, between them, six closed Ames stores, and they were interested in possibly doing that in partnership WITH the mercantile arrangement. THIS was the plan I presented to Joe Tso, but he was ordered to ignore it! How can I proceed when the principal owner is unwilling to even listen?

How does a Walmart bring interest to Wawarsing? It's just another big box store like thousands of others, draining millions of dollars AWAY from the local economy.

No, Walmarts are NOT inevitable (though they want you to think that, like the "borg," "resistance is futile!) as at least a HUNDRED communities have rejected them and sent them packing!

Your mere "feelings" don't refute actual arguments built on sound evidence; I'm not trying to "sound smart" but it isn't wise to ignore the examples of other communities and the evidence of valid studies.

You still haven't addressed any of my points, and I doubt you will.

---

I have more than "talk" about how bad Walmart would be for the area! I have support evidence based on valid studies and I provide links to articles and documentaries that show how other communities have suffered. Ignore it at your peril!

ShopRite and Peters alone represent nearly 200 existing jobs! Add RiteAid, the dollar stores, ACE, Thorntons, Matthews, and the other stores I list at the w-e-r-d.org site and you add at least 100 more jobs at risk; 300 lost jobs for 200 "new" jobs at WM is just what the Neumark study predicts!

But the main point I make is that EVERY local business is at risk! When ONE store siphons away $1-1.5 million PER WEEK out of the local cash pool, that impacts ALL local businesses, even those who don't compete directly with Walmart! When the stores that go bust first stop advertising in the local paper, or buy stationery from the local printer, or eat at local restaurants, or buy insurance, or bank locally, etc., those secondary businesses take a hit, and start contracting or collapsing, and that's HUNDREDS more jobs.

Bet you didn't think about that.
ridge

United States

#55 Jan 27, 2010
I'm not a fan of Walmart.

It seems like there has only been a few people opposed to the big behemoth coming to your town. There's really no way to stop it without a strong opposition from the townsfolk. That's just not happening in Ellenville/Napanoch.

I understand people wanting convenience. It's too bad some other department store didn't want the space.

This poster Steve has been battling what appears to be a losing battle. The citizens of the area are Walmart people.
Steve K

Hurleyville, NY

#56 Jan 29, 2010
"Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it." - William Penn

"Everything we do is futile, but we must do it anyway" - Mahatma Gandhi

"Strength does not come from physical capacity. It comes from an indomitable will." - Mahatma Gandhi

"I guess this is just another lost cause, Mr. Paine. All you people don't know about lost causes. Mr. Paine does. He said once they were the only causes worth fighting for. And he fought for them once, for the only reason any man ever fights for them; because of just one plain simple rule:'Love thy neighbor.'... And you know that you fight for the lost causes harder than for any other. Yes, you even die for them." -
"Jefferson Smith" in "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington"

---

We don't know the exact numbers for or against or neutral, as there's been no public vote or poll. There are more than a few who oppose WM coming, but many are afraid to speak out, including businesses, as they are afraid of being boycotted. The rude pro-Walmarters who booed and catcalled at public meetings have intimidated many from speaking up.

Other than litigation, all I an do is try to educate and inform, and hope that FACTS and logic bring more people around to seeing what I see.
NAPANOCHER

Raleigh, NC

#57 Jan 30, 2010
How does a Walmart bring interest to Wawarsing? It's just another big box store like thousands of others, draining millions of dollars AWAY from the local economy.

WHAT LOCAL ECONOMY?........JUST ABOUT EVERYONE,AND FOR YEARS HAVE BEEN DOING BUSINESS WITH STORES IN KINGSTON, MIDDLETOWN, NEWBURGH, AND YES,EVEN PORT JERVIS
Steve K

Hurleyville, NY

#58 Jan 30, 2010
No need to shout! Volume is no substitute for facts! You still haven't refuted what I've said.

Of course there's a local economy! Are you suggesting that the dozens of stores and other businesses in town don't exist? The local economy circulates nearly $3 million per WEEK!$500K alone is spent in just ShopRite and Peters! So, if $1-1.5 million per week is suddenly siphoned off by ONE store to Arkansas, that will have a devastating effect.

Sure, people spend money in regional shopping centers; even a WM coming won't change that, as WM doesn't have everything one might want! I shop at the regional centers when I can't find what I want in town, and I STILL haven't had to go to WM to find it!

The malls and discounters have been pulling sales from smaller towns for years, and were the start of the decline of local stores, which WM just "perfected" by taking the steps -- buying cheap land outside the towns, volume deals with vendors, Chinese outsourcing, loss leaders, psychological layout, colors, pricing -- to the logical conclusions.

So why put the final nail in Wawarsing's coffin by shutting down what remaining businesses have managed to hang in there in spite of the competition to date?
NAPANOCHER

Raleigh, NC

#59 Feb 1, 2010
So why put the final nail in Wawarsing's coffin by shutting down what remaining businesses have managed to hang in there in spite of the competition to date?

What businesses?
STEVEN H

AOL

#60 Feb 1, 2010
The Internet did more to hurt the local economy than Walmart. Should we ban shopping on the Internet?. Should we ban emails because it hurts the post office, ban Companys from outsourcing to india because it takes away our jobs, hire tens of thousands of border guards to close our borders ( the illegals shop our supermarkets also). Where does it stop. This is the world we live in now. Napanoch and our community needs jobs.
Walmart will provide jobs. 36 hours a week employment is better than unemployment. We need Walmart.

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