Comments
101 - 120 of 147 Comments Last updated Jul 12, 2014
Alll

Livonia, MI

#103 Jul 16, 2012
This Place will totally turn you off to christianity and how to live a christian life. David Russell is a complete dumbass and Does not know how to be a mens supervisor and just the overall staff they have running this place are not fit to be in the positions they are in. The have a Gay staff member who in my opinion belongs at the womens center but he claims he was never gay but walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, its a duck. They have intern named scott who claims to be a pastor because he took a couple of classes on the internet that any 10 year old could take and pass. This place is just all about the money and everyone is stuck up and you will leave there feeling like a bigger piece of shit than when you came in. You couldnt pay me enough to return back to that place. the closest thing to a cult i have ever seen. The rules are off the wall and are meaningless. you have absolutly NO freedom even after you graduate and stay on stafff. place is complete bullshit.
Grateful

Flushing, NY

#104 Aug 14, 2012
I don't understand why some one would post such negativity about a program that has helped bring me back my husband. Our two dauthers are forever grateful for the restoration process that my hsuband has expereinced at WMTC. I can never repay the pastors that have all had a hand in helping my husband beat drugs. And it was all done through the power of Jesus Christ and the support of those who work at TC. Please if you know or have a loved one that has a problem with drugs or alcohol. As a wife, I highly recommend this program. Have seen with my own eyes the change and the blessing that many there have bestowed to our family. God has great things in store for you.
tjj

Holland, MI

#105 Aug 20, 2012
Here is the bottom line.
If your husband came back a chenged man and has stayed clean--terrific and amen.
I have just been relating my experiences with WMTC.
If you or a loved one is thinking of going there, know what you are getting into and commiting yourself too.
Ask alot of questions BEFORE you go. If they sidestep the answer and do not answer it to your satisfaction do not give your self to them for a year.
Know that IT IS NOT A RE-HAB. You will not learn or be given any tools to live a clean life after you leave. If you think when the cravings start you can sit and mumble in tongues and that will work, well this is the place for you.
Good luck and God bless.
Any questions--tj.1001@hotmail.com
Former Student

Dowagiac, MI

#106 Sep 9, 2012
Adrian,those last couple sentences were pretty harsh. Why all the insults and presumptions? I met you at T.C. shortly before you graduated and I thought you were a better person than that.
Annonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
I am a pastor and graduate of Teen Challenge. I hold a degree in Biblical Theology. I pastor a successful Church in and I am a graduate of Teen challenge. Before Bible school and Teen Challenge I went to one of the top 10 most prestigious prep schools in the North east, The walnut hill school in Natick, MA.(today, tuition is 45k a year) Impressive enough for you, friend? I don't really like pulling out the resume, but obviously you must have some pretty impressive credentials the way you are attacking Phil McLain. Actually, reading your grammar, I doubt you even graduated high school.
Rev. Phil McLain is one of the most respected Ministers in the country. That my friend is a fact. He holds the highest level of credentialing possible in the Assemblies of God, the largest Pentecostal denomination in the world. Western Michigan T.C. has presidential commendation from President Ronald Reagan and the US government as one of the finest faith based programs available. They also hold the highest nationally recognized recovery rate in the world, beating other programs by more than 70% in their recovery rate.
As far as Phil McLain not having good credentials, the board of Western Mi Teen Challenge is made up of men from Christian Reform, Reform, Catholic and other Evangelical backgrounds. These men are very affluent and successful, some are millionaires and many of them hold masters degrees, and they entrust millions of dollars to this ministry under Phil McLain.
You my friend are an absolute ignoramus. I seldom respond to blogs like this, but you are really a fool. You are not a Christian, not even close, and your stupid remarks will probably cost someone who really need help their life.
For those reading, ignore this person, he is ignorant, unintelligent and very uneducated. And, if you need help, contact T.C. Immediately.
Former Student

Dowagiac, MI

#107 Sep 9, 2012
I have mixed feelings about my experiences at WMTC.

When I arrived at WMTC in 2006 I was slowly recovering from physical injuries sustained in a car accident two years prior. I was addicted to incredibly high doses of IV pain meds (substituted when necessary with heroin), I had exhausted all of my resources, and for the past couple months had been homeless. I had absolutely no possessions other than the clothes on my back, a pair of shoes with little rubber left on the soles, and a well-worn Bible that I had carried with me everywhere I went. My entire family had basically disowned me, some verbally.

The WMTC student staff that I met through the induction phase welcomed me very warmly and almost instantly made me feel like family. It was the first time I had felt appreciated in quite some time. The pastors seemed kind, even if a bit unapproachable. The other students appeared to be a mixed bag, but much better than I had expected.

Their Pentecostal teachings were contrary to much of the things I was told in churches I grew up in, but I had decided to give myself 100% to the program. I had nothing to lose by staying and felt I had everything to lose by leaving.

I began to struggle with a couple things about my fourth month in the program. One was the staff's excessive favoritism towards students whose parents were either affluent or preachers. Another thing that began to bother me was some of the obvious fakery I began to notice in the chapel services (i.e. Rev. McClain doing the decades-old "stretch a congregant's leg" trick). Nevertheless, I had resolved to give myself totally to God and the program, and would complete my vow that I signed upon entering the program. So I would just pray for them and myself and assume they weren't being intentionally dishonest or unfair.

Just before my sixth month, however, I began to be troubled by some other things. Pastor McClain never interacted with students unless they were on his singing team or their parents were affluent or preachers, but when he was showing around some leaders from the General Council of the Assemblies of God he came over and put his arm around me and started talking to me as if we were well acquainted and this was normal. That winter Phil McClain hadn't even bothered to open his door to thank me for shoveling his driveway, much less to invite me in out of the cold or offer me a warm drink on any of the several occasions that I was dropped off at his house for this work duty. And frankly, I was okay with that, I thought I was "blessed" to have the opportunity to help him out and figured he was a busy man of God. Yet, when the AG leaders were observing him, he put on a show and went out of his way to talk to me. I began to have a hard time not getting disgusted about a lot of such perceived dishonesty as this, but I did my best to assume and pray for the best.

Shortly after six months, however, I left due to moral conflicts with certain teachings that I didn't think the Bible supported.

The real hurt for me began upon leaving. Although I didn't think all their doctrines were right, I still supported the ministry (financially and otherwise) and I loved them as family. But I treated pretty poorly for quietly leaving and moving on. I attended two or three banquets, brought two students into the program, and tried to stay in touch with staff members and former students. I wrote letters of thanks and gave an update on my life to three of the pastors, but never received a reply. One of the times I was dropping off a new student to the program there was an Alumni gathering going on, I was not invited to stay. I felt shunned and unloved by these people who made me feel loved the whole time I was in the "in group".

I've since learned much about the Bible and Christianity. And while I think most of their claims (and the Bible's) are provably false, I know that the program can work. I just think it's a shame that they treat some who leave so poorly.
Former Student

Dowagiac, MI

#108 Sep 9, 2012
...continued It made me feel abandoned. They had taught me how to live in their institution, but didn't offer me any of the help for transitioning back to real life that they offer graduates. I made it clear that I was only leaving because of personal moral conflicts that I would have to endure by staying, and that I appreciated all that they had done for me. But I just can't help but feel like they threw me out like refuse for being true to myself (and God, I thought).
Chris

Jenison, MI

#109 Sep 12, 2012
Annonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
I am a pastor and graduate of Teen Challenge. I hold a degree in Biblical Theology. I pastor a successful Church in and I am a graduate of Teen challenge. Before Bible school and Teen Challenge I went to one of the top 10 most prestigious prep schools in the North east, The walnut hill school in Natick, MA.(today, tuition is 45k a year) Impressive enough for you, friend? I don't really like pulling out the resume, but obviously you must have some pretty impressive credentials the way you are attacking Phil McLain. Actually, reading your grammar, I doubt you even graduated high school.
Rev. Phil McLain is one of the most respected Ministers in the country. That my friend is a fact. He holds the highest level of credentialing possible in the Assemblies of God, the largest Pentecostal denomination in the world. Western Michigan T.C. has presidential commendation from President Ronald Reagan and the US government as one of the finest faith based programs available. They also hold the highest nationally recognized recovery rate in the world, beating other programs by more than 70% in their recovery rate.
As far as Phil McLain not having good credentials, the board of Western Mi Teen Challenge is made up of men from Christian Reform, Reform, Catholic and other Evangelical backgrounds. These men are very affluent and successful, some are millionaires and many of them hold masters degrees, and they entrust millions of dollars to this ministry under Phil McLain.
You my friend are an absolute ignoramus. I seldom respond to blogs like this, but you are really a fool. You are not a Christian, not even close, and your stupid remarks will probably cost someone who really need help their life.
For those reading, ignore this person, he is ignorant, unintelligent and very uneducated. And, if you need help, contact T.C. Immediately.
Don't harp on someones grammar with a first paragraph like that, heh. Also "Annonymous" your percentile ratings for success are off in comparison to the numbers off the staffs lips in the induction center in Flint. I don't carry a recording device on my person other than my brain so I can't give you hard evidence. I heard 15% more than once. As far as credentials go, I have none, but I am not impressed by yours. Christs credentials are the only ones impressive enough to make me genuflect. His spirit was poured out on all flesh so your ACCUSATION against this brother's Christianity merely reminds me of a conversation between Peter and Yeshua. Get thee behind me "Annonymous." Oh...its spelled anonymous by the way...
tjj

Holland, MI

#110 Sep 14, 2012
If the post that attacked my grammer and such was by the Adrian i think it then thats very sad.
I atteded TC when he was there. I know the truth about the "education", privliges, etc. About the "testi-phonie" on spirits dragging him around his room....He used to laugh upstairs in the bathroom talking about it. And BTW I hold a post graduate degree, manage the midwest for a 300 million dollar company. Obviously you are only impressed with creditionals and not character but such is a TC grad.
tjj

Holland, MI

#111 Sep 18, 2012
I applaud people who question those who use the bible as a tool to keep you submissive. Our fore fathers had the courage to question and do something about it. But in the Assemblies of God they use it to keep you submissive, in-line to their thinking.
Hmmmmmm, I wonder if Jim Jones, Jim Baker and Jimmy Swagget said the same things--All AOG pastors..........
tjj

Holland, MI

#112 Sep 21, 2012
BTW most of the guys who become pastors at or after TC, get it from a on-line course called Berian.
The only interaction with mentors or educators (if you can call them that) are AOG pastors like the one at Central assem in Muskegon.
Who give a woppty doo where u went to high school or how much it cost.
But then again you put the dollar ahead of most things.
What your degree says is nothing more than paper.
I have asked several times for someone to tell my Phil McClains credentials. No on can tell me.
Whats even more concerning is that the staff at WMTC and people who follow him didn't know.
If you are thinking of going tp TC ask and seek proff. Ask to see their study on sucess rates....If you get it please post it..But i bet you wont.
TEEN CHALLENGE SUCKS

Three Rivers, MI

#113 Nov 28, 2012
First off, shut your damn mouth because your comments are making me want to puke. Teen Challenge in Muskegon, Mi was and is the fakest Christian organization that I have ever run into. They are stuck on talking in tongues like it's mandatory or you go to Hell and they push God on people like it's a punishment and by the way it CAN be a punishment if they force you to attend Church 4-5 times a day for 13 MONTHS STRAIT! and during these 13 months you have brown nosers that tattle on you for the smallest shit just so they can score brownie points with the leaders and further climb the ladder to get the hell out of there! I got kicked out because I simply "questioned" their interpretation of speaking in tongues and they felt threatened that I would tell others it isn't for today but it was for BACK IN THE DAY. If you got scared to the point of immediately dismissing someone for that simple reason then there is something you are afraid of, " a teaching of a false doctrine perhaps???" ALSO!> I am barely touching the surface! The man who runs the place is scamming money and he is as fake as they come. He is one of those "prosperity" type of preachers.(for those with half of a brain, you know what I am speaking of)
andy

Saint Clair, MI

#114 Dec 19, 2012
Nate wrote:
TC is a joke. The staff and all but one of the pastors ( pastor?....please! LOL!) have simply found some place to hide because they are afraid of the real world and have not found another way to stop putting drugs in their bodies. They have both left TC to try to start a real life and started using again, so they ran right back. The 80% stat is a lie. I was there, I know. The entire ministry is built on lies, driven by fear, and preys on the hopeless and weak minded. Do not go to TC, unless you are homeless and need a place to stay for awhile. If you have a brain in your head, this is not the choice for you, just go to AA, or rehab or whatever-trust me! WMTC is as close to a cult as you are likely to find, at times it can be truly scary. I large group of hopeless individuals are pretty apt to swallow just about anything, exspecially when it shoved down their throats. This type of herding develops into mob mentality, and thats when it gets really scary. STAY AWAY!!
Wow dude your stupid!!!
andy

Saint Clair, MI

#115 Dec 19, 2012
wowyour really stupid!! all of you are stupid. you dont know God..thats the problem and you dont wanna know...good luck man!
andy

Saint Clair, MI

#116 Dec 19, 2012
Chris wrote:
<quoted text> Don't harp on someones grammar with a first paragraph like that, heh. Also "Annonymous" your percentile ratings for success are off in comparison to the numbers off the staffs lips in the induction center in Flint. I don't carry a recording device on my person other than my brain so I can't give you hard evidence. I heard 15% more than once. As far as credentials go, I have none, but I am not impressed by yours. Christs credentials are the only ones impressive enough to make me genuflect. His spirit was poured out on all flesh so your ACCUSATION against this brother's Christianity merely reminds me of a conversation between Peter and Yeshua. Get thee behind me "Annonymous." Oh...its spelled anonymous by the way...
Amen Brother My kid is there now...awsome program
tjj

Holland, MI

#117 Jan 5, 2013
Ok, so here are their "stats" taken from their January 2013 newsletter. And seeing how numbers can be manipulated and taken out of context, I will clarify.

85 people completed 3/month induction program - First 3 months you go chapel, chruch, work programs 1/2 each day and go to morning clasess, which are "elementary" level at best. You are not allowed to go home and visit family, kids, spouses. Your outgoing phone calls are monitored. Most leave because after three months they start to realize whats is going on there.

44 completed one year program - Look at above numbers, thats almost a 50% drop out rate. Also they dont tell you how many the 44 is out of total. When I was there, there were 80 men and 35 women--each month. You do the math. Their graduation rate is under 5%. Ask yourself would I give money to any organization tha thas a 5% success rate......And by the way, when they quote you their 80% sucess rate and the study it was taken from...Ask to see it and the data.....They can not and will not produce it.
It is supposedly taken from a Tennesee TC program back in the 80's....Wheres the current local data?????

16-completed 3 / month restoration program. This is where a graduate left and did not make it so they came back. The restoration program is nothing different than the same program they went through the first 12 months. No re-lapse analysis, no ;looking at what or why it happened or how to prevent it from happening again. Just more "babbling" in tounges and pray harder.......
And back on the street you go with no tools or support system to stay sober.

233- Rallies / Church meeting - These are nothing more than meetings and presentations to solicit money. You go to a chruch, and if you have a great "sob" story or can really speak to group they will hand you the microphone and ask you to tell how their program has changed you. 90% of the stories are either made up or embellished to a degree that is almost unbelievable. I mean Adrian Thorn, a now "supposed" pastor used to get up and say how he was dragged around his appartment by "dark evil spirits". I mean come on, when you stay up for 5 days doing crack and dont sleep or eat ----Its called halucinations------Not demons.......But it makes for a great story and people dig into their pocketbooks after that......
Bottom line, do your homework, ask real questions if you are going to go there or give money......Drug and Alcohol addiction is life and death......
I can reached at tj.1001@hotmail.com --God Bless...

Since: Dec 12

United States

#118 Jan 7, 2013
Went thru program 25 yrs ago....one of the best things that ever happened to me. Old Dave Wilkerson thing
tjj

Holland, MI

#119 Jan 8, 2013
So here is there FAQ's taken from their web site.
Lets look at what is stated and the facts:
Q: What type of counseling do the students receive?
A: Upon entry into the program, each student is assigned a counselor to provide individual one-on-one guidance and mentoring determined by that student particular needs. The proven cure for life-controlling problems is based on the embracing of Biblical principles to spiritually improve the quality of his character. All counselors are Western Michigan Teen Challenge Pastors.
They do not develop a counseling program based on individual needs. FACT: I had Pastor Sam as a "counselor for a bit. My needs were my life was controlled by drugs and my wife was going to leave me with my kids. His response--And i quote--Have you been baptized by the holy spirit by speaking in tongues.... Also they call anyone the want a "Pastor". So check on that persons qualifications....They have no counseling training--nothing.
Q: Will the student receive educational classes while in the program?
A: Absolutely! Students participate in both Personal and Group Studies for New Christians. The classe curriculum helps to establish a foundation of Biblical knowledge leading to spiritual growth. The faith- structured classes also develop the main goal of the program: a life-changing, continually growing personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
Fact: The first four months the classes are 5th grade level "living classes" and bible classes. Not one class on sobriety or how to get and stay clean and live and function that way. And then they ask you to memeorize 66 bible verses that they pick and you have to know them in one months. And by the way you can only re-cite them in "Old King James" version english..Which no one understands or speaks, but that doesnt matter to them because thats the version that Phil McClain likes...If you are memorizing something you don't know the meaning of then what good is it??????
Q: Can I get my induction fee back if the student leaves the program early?
A: No. The induction fee is a non-refundable fee regardless of the length of time a student remains in the program. For more information please contact us.
Fact: You show up give them $700 and realize what it really is, you cant get that money back..THat speaks for itself--Induction fee---really......WOW!!! Speaks volumes.....

Since: Dec 12

United States

#120 Jan 8, 2013
David Wilkerson was a street evangelist which means he preached that Jesus Christ's sacrifice was/is the only way to eternal lfe or "heaven" Dave Wilkerson founded teen challenge after encountering a gang from new York city....thus the movie "cross and the switchblade"
tjj

Holland, MI

#121 Jan 9, 2013
Correct, but not sure what your point is?

Since: Dec 12

United States

#122 Jan 9, 2013
tjj wrote:
Correct, but not sure what your point is?
hmmm what's your point? Pointing out that I have no point? Lol seems pointless

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