Lawmaker Proposes No-Spanking Law

Lawmaker Proposes No-Spanking Law

There are 25 comments on the NBC 11 San Francisco Bay Area story from Mar 19, 2008, titled Lawmaker Proposes No-Spanking Law. In it, NBC 11 San Francisco Bay Area reports that:

A California legislator introduced a bill Thursday that would make it illegal for parents to spank their young children.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at NBC 11 San Francisco Bay Area.

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noname

Placerville, CA

#1 Apr 15, 2008
If this bill passes I may have to find a new state to live in.
Lieber needs to use her powers for the good of the whole and not to make peoples lives harder than they already are.
BeatKid

Orlando, FL

#2 Apr 15, 2008
If only this law had been on the books back in December, when Michele Henry's 7-year-old son revealed a back criss-crossed with bruises from belt whippings to his school nurse and tearfully pleaded "I don't want to be whipped no more!" Child protection workers visited the home and determined that the boy had been 'spanked' and advised the parents against using a belt. Over the next three months the boy was beaten with a belt until bloody, urinated on by his step father, and burned on his penis and buttocks with cigarettes. The chief of police stated, "This boy was sent home to be tortured."

Every person who supports corporal punishment has tacitly agreed to allow a certain number of children to be tortured, maimed, murdered, and left emotionally crippled for life in order that they might enjoy the benefits of occasionally and mildly spanking their offspring with a little ruler or switch.

There is certainly some historical basis for sacrificing a few people for the sake of the many; as in the case of military service, for example. What is unusual is that the entire cost of spanking freedoms is born on the thin and trembling shoulders of children. Other than abortion (depending on your definition of the beginning of life) I can think of no other instance in which adults have allowed children to be slaughtered on a wholesale basis for the sake of convenience.

The pro-spanking crowd survived their childhoods and made it to adulthood unburdened by the physical and emotional scars of physical abuse. They implement social policies which inevitably condemn other peoples children, and then sooth their consciences by tut-tutting over the tragic results of their selfishness which parade across the T.V. set each and every evening in every town and city in America.

But would Sarah Berke --'dead set against the evil of child abuse' be advocating social tolerance of belting chidren if SHE were the little boy who was beaten until his liver failed, or the little girl who was paddled until her blistered skin peeled from her buttocks in sheets? Would any of the adults who advocate beating children volunteer to change places with the children they condemn? Of course not.

It's easy to decide that the benefits of spanking with a belt are worth the harm when you are not the one who has to pay the price of it. It's easy to implement social policies which inevitably condemn OTHER peoples children, and then sit back on your sofa tut-tut over the tragic results of your selfishness as they parade across the T.V. set each and every evening in every town and city in America.

Sarah Berke, you are a cowardly scoundrel. You are willing to found your civilization on mountains of dead babies, and neither you nor the disgusting pastors and preachers you associate pass for a decent human being in any respect.

It is past time that our society started valuing the lives of children more than they value their convenience and traditions. Thank God for people like Rep. Lieber and others who are actually willing to make sacrifices in their own families to take some of the burden off of kids who have no choice in the matter.
noname

Placerville, CA

#3 Apr 16, 2008
Let me start by saying that you and Lieber are confusing the point; Spanking is NOT CHILD ABUSE. What happened to Michele Henry's son, and many other children around the world, did not happen because spanking is a form of discipline. It happens because there are people out in the world who like to push the lines. When someone beats a child with a baseball bat does that mean we should outlaw baseball with kids?

Do not assume that you know any of us Pro-Spankers. We choose to support spanking for many reasons, but none of them are because we are naive and wish to sit and "tut-tut" at our televisions or "sacrifice a few people for the sake of the many". We are supporting our right to dicipline our children as we see fit. We are supporting our parents right to have spanked us with paddles, belts, swithches and a hand. Basically we are fighting for our right to be the best parents we can without the government running in and telling us how to do it.

You and Lieber have blurred the lines between dicipline and CHILD ABUSE just to get the law passed. Despicable!! You say that spanking is the cause of child abuse and claim to be "sacrificimg in their own families to take some of the burden off of kids who have no choice in the matter". Lets be VERY clear here; Outlawing spanking will not make CHILD ABUSE go away. There was a case in Nevada about 10 years ago where a father bashed his babys head in using the bathroom. This family does not believe in spanking, how do you explain this? My point; Child abuse can be anywhere, not just in houses that advocate spanking.

You assume that because we support spanking we support "social tolerance of belting chidren" and would not trade places with children of abuse situations. YOU ARE WRONG!!! We would trade places with those children in a hearbeat to save them. The differnece between you and us is that we would not tell anyone, we would do it for the child and leave it at that.

And one last bit of information for your uninformed mind...
Our society values childrens lives so much that a child can walk into any school, doctors office or police station and say that he was beaten and that child will be believed regardless of the proof against the claim. Then Society will take the child from the home and lock up the parents. It does not matter that the child is lying or that he later recants what he said. The damage has been done. You see, when society gave voice to the little children we forgot to teach temperance and accountability. We also neglected to explain in FULL detain what happens when you make the claim; true or not.
BeatKid

Orlando, FL

#4 Apr 16, 2008
A quick search of Google News for the words "child belt Abuse" will reveal dozens of pages of recent headlines including kids who suffered bruises, near fatal blood infections from belt lacerations, kidney and liver failure and more than a dozen children who were disciplined to death with this implement in just the last twelve months.

Two thirds of child abuse deaths are the result of corporal punishment, and the majority of cases of physical abuse involve parents who spank excessively with an implement such as a belt or a stick.

The connection between beating children with implements and child abuse is crystal clear, as are the tremendous reductions in both the prevalence and severity of abuse that have occurred in every place that has either banned completely or strictly restricted their use.

The law that is on the table does not criminalize spanking or even spanking with an implement but gives prosecutors and investigators a tool with which to tackle parents who lie and justify abuse as discipline.

To carry your analogy forward, this law would help prevent a parent who beat their child with a bat from claiming they were playing baseball with him.


Noname

El Dorado Hills, CA

#5 Apr 16, 2008
Again you used the term ABUSE to do your search. Not that it matters most of the cases you see are cases that are more than just belt spanking.
We are advocates of spanking not abuse. There is a defined line between the two. Also, please note that there are good people that use spanking as ONE form of dicipline. Those that use it as a pre-cursor to beat their children never intended to use spanking as a dicipline anyway. You canno
hold the world at fault for those people.
It is unfortunate, but there have always been people who do what they shouldn't.
My analogy was supposed to point out that just because you play baseball does not mean you will beat your kid with a bat. Your version is ABUSE plain and simple, not spanking. Passing this law will make it easier for the government to proclaim that things "might" happen and draw even more lines in the sand where parents and kids are concerned.
BeatKid

Orlando, FL

#6 Apr 16, 2008
In 2001 Canada limited spanking to children between the ages of 2 and 12, and prohibited the use of an implement. The result? Child abuse deaths declined by more than 50% in five years, to an ALL TIME LOW -- less than half of what what it was in any year since records began being kept in the 1974.( http://www.cecw-cepb.ca/files/file/en/57E%20I... )

In the same period US child abuse deaths grew every year, and are now at an all time high.( http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/factsheets/f... )

Out of 44 developed countries, the United States is tied for 26th place with Croatia. How can we be doing worse than Croatia? Possibly because Croatia prohibits corporal punishment of kids. Our death rate is 2.5 times higher than Iceland, double that of Sweden, and the Netherlands, 75% higher than Finland and Norway, and 30% higher than Spain and Portugal. Could it be a coincindence that all of these countries ban corporal punishment of children?( http://www.mindfully.org/Health/2007/US-Death... )

Restricting corporal punishment saves lives. This bill will undoubtedly reduces both the prevalence and the severity of abuse that children suffer. It will require parents to modify their behavior, but is being allowed to spank your kid with a ruler twice a year REALLY worth sending 1400 kids per year to their deaths?
Grandmother

AOL

#7 Aug 15, 2008
My grandson comes to see me maybe once every few weeks, and everytime he comes he tells me that his stepdad beats him with his belt. And there has been a few times i can see the lines where the belt has hit him. What can i do to stop this from happening, he is 6 years old, and he is always telling me that when he turns 12 he wants to live with me. He is very angry, and he will drop his head when i have to take him back to his mothers home. Sometimes i can see tears and even him being scared to go back.I cry everytime i have to take him home.. if you can call that a home.I dont believe in punishing with a belt. There little bodies are very tender and why doesnt the people see that a belt is very thick and leather, IT HURTS!!! You take a belt and use the same force you would use on a 6 year old.. And let me just say it is very painful. I have done this to myself, just to see what it felt like. IT HURTS!!!
sheber

United States

#8 Aug 26, 2008
It actually takes patience and care to raise a child without spanking them. My older kids were spanked,(as I was,) and they do not and will not spank their children. My youngest is not spanked and sometimes it is hard to not resort to spanking. I have to exercise self-control. I have to make that effort. It is so worth it. I never have to see him look at me in fear.

To: Beatkid - I know it is so hard to reason with people who are so closed minded they do not want to even consider that their traditions may be wrong, let alone consider the psychological reasons why they are so apathetic to their childrens' feelings of pain. Spanking is unreasonable! I'm with you!
NINer

Burnaby, Canada

#9 Aug 26, 2008
The California Legislator who introduced this needs to be spanked.
This is truely becoming the "Nanny" state.
unity

San Bruno, CA

#10 Aug 26, 2008
Grandmother wrote:
My grandson comes to see me maybe once every few weeks, and everytime he comes he tells me that his stepdad beats him with his belt. And there has been a few times i can see the lines where the belt has hit him. What can i do to stop this from happening, he is 6 years old, and he is always telling me that when he turns 12 he wants to live with me. He is very angry, and he will drop his head when i have to take him back to his mothers home. Sometimes i can see tears and even him being scared to go back.I cry everytime i have to take him home.. if you can call that a home.I dont believe in punishing with a belt. There little bodies are very tender and why doesnt the people see that a belt is very thick and leather, IT HURTS!!! You take a belt and use the same force you would use on a 6 year old.. And let me just say it is very painful. I have done this to myself, just to see what it felt like. IT HURTS!!!
I read your article and my heart goes out for your grandson. I don't know if this little boy is from your daughter and trying to keep her marriage together or previous marriage. In any case if your aware of the beatings and trying to stay out of the middle between mom and dad. I feel it's time you step in, whether it be anomous or plain and simple report it. This child needs to be in a safe haven and it's time to act on this. You might end up losing a family member but you will have your grandson. He can't fend for himself and he looks to you for help, this is why he is telling you he doesn't want to go back home.
Julie

Waukegan, IL

#11 Oct 13, 2008
I am a nurse who recently had to examine a little boy and little girl who had welts and bruises all over their buttocks and genitals. They told the doctor that their dad had stripped them naked and whipped them with a belt many, many times. If this law prevents this for happening to one more child, it is worth it.
Lashay

Pinehurst, NC

#12 Dec 11, 2008
I see that you feel strongly about abuse and i hop you do not mind but i used your opoinion in my research paper about child abuse. unfortunately i did not have your name to give you credit for your words directly. It does so happen that i disagree with your oppoinion but that is ok
Lashay

Pinehurst, NC

#13 Dec 11, 2008
Yes i agree it is so obvious that you yearn to help so dont hestitate go right ahead and i guaranteed in the end you will feel a whole lot better and so will your grandson,
Questions from Perth

Margaret River, Australia

#14 Dec 16, 2008
Can I still spank the monkey?
Can I still spank my girlfriends arse?
Can she still paddle the flesh canoe?

All these questions are doing my head in, making me crazy just like Britney Spears!!!
Questions from Perth

Margaret River, Australia

#15 Dec 16, 2008
Ha ha, that is gold. you can't say

m o n k e y.
mom of 2

United States

#16 Dec 18, 2008
I have 2 girls ages 5 and 4. I do not beleive that one spank on with my hand is doing my children any harm. Sometimes when I play with them I pat their bottems just as hard as I would if I were to spank them for being in trouble and they laugh. So my point is, that when I spank them It dosen't even hurt them. My girls cry becouse I hurt their feelings and they know that I am upset with them.
I also use Time outs and taking things from them. Which works when it comes to long term princeples that I want them to learn. When the girls are doing something that could harm them, such as run in the street or touch the stove. One spank on the bottem works great. I do now beat my children. Spanking as I have discribed IS NOT CHILD ABUSE.
VALENCiA

San Francisco, CA

#17 Dec 18, 2008
SPANKiNG iS NOT CHiLD ABUSE. i WAS SPANKED ALL THE TiME AND LiKE THE MOM OF 2 STATED ABOVE, THE KiDS CRY BECAUSE THEYRE UPSET THAT THEYRE iN TROUBLE, YOU SHOULDNT BAN PARENTS FROM GiViNG REASONABLE PUNiSHMENT. iF iTS JUST A SPANKiNG PARENTS SHOULD HAVE THE RiGHT TO BE ABLE TO iF THEY FEEL iT iS NEEDED.

iF THERE ARE MARKS, THATS NOT JUST A SPANKiNG, AND YOU SHOULD WATCH OUT FOR THAT. BUT SPANKiNGS ARE FiNE! GET OVER iT!
mom of 2

United States

#18 Dec 19, 2008
Reasonable punishments, I like how valencia stated that. There is a big difference betweening spanking a child and beating a child. Some of the storys above my heart goes out to you. But the pain that those children suffered was NOT A RESAULT of spanking. Useing a belt is BEATING. I really do not understand why people are so against the term spanking. It is not bad. Instead of going after parents like me. Maybe the law should be harsher when child comes to school with burses or to their grandmas. Why are they still sending them back home. Yea, lets call the parents and tell them their child complained and then when the kid get home he or she gets beat even more. Dose anyone else see how stupid that sounds. Well it happens just like that.
Numnun

United States

#19 Dec 21, 2008
Lieber needs a spanking real bad! She also needs to drop about 120 lbs!
Jamie

San Diego, CA

#20 Apr 21, 2009
stupid law makers are worried about this crap, when all these children that I just heard on the news are dying from real abuse! One child just died of multiple skull fractures, but the social services been to the house 25 times! One kid died of his injuries a day after the social worker went to the house! And we are worried about spanking!!!!

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