Judge overturns California's ban on same-sex marriage

Aug 4, 2010 Full story: www.cnn.com 201,038

A federal judge in California has knocked down the state's voter-approved ban on same-sex marriage, ruling Wednesday that the state's controversial Proposition 8 violates the U.S. Constitution.

Full Story

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#184352 Mar 24, 2013
Xavier Breath wrote:
<quoted text>um.... prior to "the vote," gay people HAD the right to marry. The vote took that right away, and that is why SCOTUS will overturn it. You should have learned this stuff in high school civics class.
XBox

Gay people ALWAYS had the right to marry, along with every other American, and actually exercised that right, even fathered, or gave birth to, children, with their respective (opposite sex) husband or wife.

The people of California voted to constitutionally define marriage, as it had been defined, for all of American history, as a union of husband/man AND wife. What was taken away was the right to participate, by the voter, in the constitutional process.

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#184353 Mar 24, 2013
veryvermilion wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you really believe that all children raised by their biological parents fair better than all children raised by someone else?
Of course not. There will always be situations where the bio parents cannot, or choose not, to care for their children. So what's your point?
I've worked for many years in the field of social work. And I've got to tell you, that simply isn't the case.
Two parents who are physically/emotionally abusive to their children and who have serious drug/alcohol problems DO NOT do better than children raised in a loving, stable, supportive household headed by non-biological parents--regardless of the parent's orientation.
True, but children will do better in any other stable home environment .
The key to raising successful children has less to do with the biological connection to the parents and more to do with the skills of the parents.
It's not "who" raises the kids, but "how" the kids are raised.
The biological connection should not be severed unless there is legitimate reason for doing so. Even gay people have a mom and dad.
That is the case 100% of the time.
It hardly takes an advanced degree to know this is true.
True

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#184354 Mar 24, 2013
endocannabanoid system wrote:
<quoted text>
move to utah
My oh my....how quickly the mood changes as soon as the "P" word is mentioned. So much for "equality". Apparently, some are more equal than others.
endocannabanoid system

Anderson, CA

#184355 Mar 24, 2013
Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
My oh my....how quickly the mood changes as soon as the "P" word is mentioned. So much for "equality". Apparently, some are more equal than others.
I dont have any problem with polygamy.

I only suggested utah, bcause you might feel more at home amomgst others who are practicing the same sort of thing...

sort of like(and equal to) when the castro or greewich village became hot spots...

mabey the law proibiting polygamy is wrong??

yet, Im not the one to make that call....(a voter)

the other obstacle to having full civil rights for polygamists is public opinion.

but then again, public opinion was squarely against same sex marraige just a generation ago.

in the early 60's, it was the same deal with interacial marraige....and now look at how humdrum that has become.

mabey it is time to make your case to the high court!!

Since: Dec 09

Knoxville, TN

#184356 Mar 24, 2013
Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
XBox
Gay people ALWAYS had the right to marry, along with every other American, and actually exercised that right, even fathered, or gave birth to, children, with their respective (opposite sex) husband or wife.
The people of California voted to constitutionally define marriage, as it had been defined, for all of American history, as a union of husband/man AND wife. What was taken away was the right to participate, by the voter, in the constitutional process.
State sponsored segregation was legal throughout most of the country; particularly in the south, until the judicial branch of the federal government (i.e. The Supreme Court) found these laws unconstitutional.

If left up to the individual states and their legislators, who knows how long, if ever, these laws would have remained in place.

This is why the Fourteenth Amendment is so important in determining the rights of U.S. citizens. States and their residents CANNOT determine the rights of U.S. citizens.

Since: Dec 09

Knoxville, TN

#184357 Mar 24, 2013
Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course not. There will always be situations where the bio parents cannot, or choose not, to care for their children. So what's your point?
<quoted text>
True, but children will do better in any other stable home environment .
<quoted text>
The biological connection should not be severed unless there is legitimate reason for doing so. Even gay people have a mom and dad.
<quoted text>
True
The "point" of my comment was in response to the post which stated "The thing is, children raised by married mother and father have better outcomes, spend less time in prison and more time in school, for instance, than children raised by only one of their parents."

And this clearly is not the case.

Children can be raised by anyone as long at the parent(s) provide(s) the proper financial support,, discipline, stable environment, exposure to education, and love.

You guys act as though child-rearing is some deep mystery that only a married man and woman are capable of doing. And that simply is not the case.
phaines

Big Bear Lake, CA

#184358 Mar 24, 2013
endocannabanoid system wrote:
<quoted text>
I dont have any problem with polygamy.
I only suggested utah, bcause you might feel more at home amomgst others who are practicing the same sort of thing...
sort of like(and equal to) when the castro or greewich village became hot spots...
mabey the law proibiting polygamy is wrong??
yet, Im not the one to make that call....(a voter)
the other obstacle to having full civil rights for polygamists is public opinion.
but then again, public opinion was squarely against same sex marraige just a generation ago.
in the early 60's, it was the same deal with interacial marraige....and now look at how humdrum that has become.
mabey it is time to make your case to the high court!!
polygamist are no different than these lil low-lifes who find females to support them on welfare...they just do it on a larger scale...slimeballs..

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#184359 Mar 24, 2013
veryvermilion wrote:
<quoted text>
Here is the compelling reason...
1.) Scientists and the Supreme Court have determined that homosexuality is a normal, legal, expression of human sexuality. It is no worse than heterosexual behavior and no better than heterosexual behavior. It is equal. Like it or not, those are the facts based on scientific findings and legal findings in this country.
Please validate these claims.

Smile.

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#184360 Mar 24, 2013
veryvermilion wrote:
<quoted text>
The "point" of my comment was in response to the post which stated "The thing is, children raised by married mother and father have better outcomes, spend less time in prison and more time in school, for instance, than children raised by only one of their parents."
And this clearly is not the case.
The key here, is by their OWN married mother and father in a stable home. That's the gold standard. I was raised by mom and dad, my children are,......and you?
Children can be raised by anyone as long at the parent(s) provide(s) the proper financial support,, discipline, stable environment, exposure to education, and love.
True.....but who doesn't want their own Mom and Dad, absent abuse of course?
You guys act as though child-rearing is some deep mystery that only a married man and woman are capable of doing. And that simply is not the case.
Ask the kids. Seriously.....that's not the point. We all have mothers and fathers, even you. Married mom and dad in a stable home is still the hold standard.

Since: Dec 09

Knoxville, TN

#184362 Mar 24, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Please validate these claims.
Smile.
The Supreme Court decision in Lawrence v. Texas,(2003),

Since: Dec 09

Knoxville, TN

#184363 Mar 24, 2013
Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
The key here, is by their OWN married mother and father in a stable home. That's the gold standard. I was raised by mom and dad, my children are,......and you?
<quoted text>
True.....but who doesn't want their own Mom and Dad, absent abuse of course?
<quoted text>
Ask the kids. Seriously.....that's not the point. We all have mothers and fathers, even you. Married mom and dad in a stable home is still the hold standard.
Well, if we used your standard, my parents did a horrible job because I turned out gay.

And I'm not trying to argue that children don't want their biological parents. I'm just saying it's unrealistic to believe that every single biological parent makes a good parent.

The "Gold Standard" is a stable, supportive, loving home. Whether it's parented by biological parents or not.

Kids can hope for a good biological parents, but it's just not always available.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#184364 Mar 24, 2013
veryvermilion wrote:
<quoted text>
The Supreme Court decision in Lawrence v. Texas,(2003),
That decision was based on sexual privacy. It made no assertion of " a normal, legal, expression of human sexuality."

Nor has science. In fact, the opposite is true. Obviously.

The basis of your assertions crumbles without #1.

Smile.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#184365 Mar 24, 2013
veryvermilion wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you really believe that all children raised by their biological parents fair better than all children raised by someone else?
I've worked for many years in the field of social work. And I've got to tell you, that simply isn't the case.
Two parents who are physically/emotionally abusive to their children and who have serious drug/alcohol problems DO NOT do better than children raised in a loving, stable, supportive household headed by non-biological parents--regardless of the parent's orientation.
The key to raising successful children has less to do with the biological connection to the parents and more to do with the skills of the parents.
It's not "who" raises the kids, but "how" the kids are raised.
That is the case 100% of the time.
It hardly takes an advanced degree to know this is true.
Do you really think twisting his statement to make the question 'all children' isn't obviously a ridiculous extreme?

It simply exposes your inability to provide a reasoned defense.

The fact is, biological parents are by far the best option most often.

Your claim that 'how' is best has already been disproved. Adoptive parents spend more time and attention than typical biological parents, yet the child outcome still remains severely diminished.

Like I have said many times, a social worker making the obviously silly claim of 100% success only shows the ignorant bigotry of a gay 'social worker'.

A real parent knows that no matter how good a parent is, the child holds the ultimate key.

You fail in so many ways once again VV...

Smile.

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#184367 Mar 24, 2013
veryvermilion wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, if we used your standard, my parents did a horrible job because I turned out gay.
So being raised by your own married mother and father in a stable home was not what you wanted? The fact that you're gay doesn't change the standard. You're still created and born the old fashioned way just like everybody else.
And I'm not trying to argue that children don't want their biological parents. I'm just saying it's unrealistic to believe that every single biological parent makes a good parent.
C'mon VV, I never said that, nor is that realistic.
The "Gold Standard" is a stable, supportive, loving home. Whether it's parented by biological parents or not.
Its still the "gold standard", perhaps the next one, non bio married parents in a stable home, would be the "silver", after that the "bronze".
Kids can hope for a good biological parents, but it's just not always available.
Agreed, sad but true.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#184368 Mar 24, 2013
veryvermilion wrote:
<quoted text>
The "point" of my comment was in response to the post which stated "The thing is, children raised by married mother and father have better outcomes, spend less time in prison and more time in school, for instance, than children raised by only one of their parents."
And this clearly is not the case.
Children can be raised by anyone as long at the parent(s) provide(s) the proper financial support,, discipline, stable environment, exposure to education, and love.
You guys act as though child-rearing is some deep mystery that only a married man and woman are capable of doing. And that simply is not the case.
Once again, you lie.

According to the latest, largest and most scientific study to date, out of seven family types, lesbian couples rate last. AFTER single parents. Biological parents rate first, by far.

Every culture has a version of 'blood is thicker than water'. In equal situations, every child wants the one and only real mother and father they can ever have. And in most cases, that is always best in spite of unequal parenting skills.

But perhaps you would like to post a valid study that proves otherwise?

Smile.

Since: Nov 12

Elk Grove, CA

#184369 Mar 24, 2013
endocannabanoid system wrote:
<quoted text>
ive admitted in the past these people were wrong...
how could they nOT be?? IT WAS WRONG!! many of us new it, like myself.
77 senators voted for it, and many of them were democrats.
THEY were wrong.
many of them have recanted. Bush, cheney, rumsy and wolfy have not.
im glad you have.
Now admit that you were wrong to blame it all on Bush.

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#184370 Mar 24, 2013
veryvermilion wrote:
<quoted text>
State sponsored segregation was legal throughout most of the country; particularly in the south, until the judicial branch of the federal government (i.e. The Supreme Court) found these laws unconstitutional.
As well they should.
If left up to the individual states and their legislators, who knows how long, if ever, these laws would have remained in place.
This is why the Fourteenth Amendment is so important in determining the rights of U.S. citizens. States and their residents CANNOT determine the rights of U.S. citizens.
Yesssss...however other matters such as licensing of marriage, drivers, gun owners, etc. are left to the states to decide. Simply because states have generally honored marriages performed in other states in the past, doesn't mean they are constitutionally bound to do so.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#184371 Mar 24, 2013
veryvermilion wrote:
<quoted text>
The "Gold Standard" is a stable, supportive, loving home. Whether it's parented by biological parents or not.
Kids can hope for a good biological parents, but it's just not always available.
What a crock of BS.

The gold standard is stable, supportive, loving biological parents. They will trump any other default situation every time.

When that gold standard is not available, the results are always severely diminished.

Over the years, my wife and I fostered over 10 children. In every case, our goal was to restore them to their mother and father. That was the desire of the children and their parents.

How many children have you fostered VV?

Smile.

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#184372 Mar 24, 2013
veryvermilion wrote:
<quoted text>
Here is the compelling reason...
1.) Scientists and the Supreme Court have determined that homosexuality is a normal, legal, expression of human sexuality. It is no worse than heterosexual behavior and no better than heterosexual behavior. It is equal. Like it or not, those are the facts based on scientific findings and legal findings in this country.
The fact that homosexuality, along with bisexuality, "...is a normal, legal, expression of human sexuality.", doesn't mean it equal to, or performs the same function as, heterosexuality. Therein lies the difference.
2.) Heterosexual relationships are granted the right, protection, and privileges of marriage. Homosexual relationships are not granted these things.
Opposite sex relationships are granted te rights, protections, and privileges of marriage. Same sex, except in a few states, relationships, are not.
3.) The Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution states, "no state shall ... deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
Marriage is a province of the state.
4.) So, if homosexual and heterosexual relationships are both supposed to be equal under the law; and heterosexual relationships are given more rights and protections via marriage than homosexual relationships; and the Fourteenth Amendment states clearly that no state shall deny any person the equal protection of law; then THERE IS A COMPELLING reason to give homosexual relationships THE SAME RIGHTS as heterosexual relationships.
As long as both relationships are of the opposite sex, the same rights will be granted.

“Vita e' Bella.”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#184373 Mar 24, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
What a crock of BS.
The gold standard is stable, supportive, loving biological parents. They will trump any other default situation every time.
When that gold standard is not available, the results are always severely diminished.
Over the years, my wife and I fostered over 10 children. In every case, our goal was to restore them to their mother and father. That was the desire of the children and their parents.
How many children have you fostered VV?
Smile.
I like the way you put that KM, "our goal was to restore them to their mother and father". Puts things in perspective.Thanks

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