Arthur

United States

#19924 Jul 18, 2013
bacon hater wrote:
So what you guys are saying is that you're only concerned about the rights that affect you. If it's other peoples' rights, like gay people or minorities, they don't matter much. Wow. Good thing your views ARE IN THE MINORITY. Otherwise, when your families came here they never would have been granted rights. Assuming, of course, that you aren't direct pilgrim descendants.
Well look in the mirror. You dont seemed to concerned about my rights because I am not black or gay. What I am saying is I am the MOST concerned about my own rights, duh, but that doesnt mean other people rights dont matter. I support their rights also, but it makes sense I would also try and protect my own now doesnt it? But you only care about someone elses rights. I didnt jump on you when you voiced your opinions about their rights, but you did me about mine.
Arthur

United States

#19925 Jul 18, 2013
Harve Wall Banger wrote:
<quoted text>
You watch and see in the future when someone is arrested using this information and it is thrown out because of lack of evidence because the information will be considered fruit from the poisoned true. It is going to be hilarious when all the cases are thrown out.
And you dont think the government will lie in anyway possible to allow the usage of said illegally obtained evidence? And its acceptable that people will be arrested and tried on this illegally obtained evidence? The point is this must stop and the government must follow the law just like everyone else.
Arthur

United States

#19926 Jul 18, 2013
bacon hater wrote:
So what you guys are saying is that you're only concerned about the rights that affect you. If it's other peoples' rights, like gay people or minorities, they don't matter much. Wow. Good thing your views ARE IN THE MINORITY. Otherwise, when your families came here they never would have been granted rights. Assuming, of course, that you aren't direct pilgrim descendants.
One more thing, you say I am only concerned about rights that affect me, but the things I have been speaking out about affect me AND millions of other people, including blacks, minorities, women, gays, etc.. It included everyone in America. Your arguments have been aimed with preference toward particular groups, not me.

“Comfort the afflicted”

Since: May 13

Afflict the comfortable

#19927 Jul 18, 2013
Arthur wrote:
<quoted text>And you dont think the government will lie in anyway possible to allow the usage of said illegally obtained evidence? And its acceptable that people will be arrested and tried on this illegally obtained evidence? The point is this must stop and the government must follow the law just like everyone else.
It's not illegal at all to film people without their knowledge. Your image does not belong to you when you're in public. It's public. The metadata you're concerned about could potentially be used to alert police about, say, your repeated trips to a known drug dealer's house. But what alerted police to illegal activity holds no bearing in court. They'd still have to conduct an investigation using traditional methods for a conviction.

And I truly don't mean to "jump on you" for protecting your rights above all others'. I'm just hoping you'll realize that if everyone always did that, this wouldn't be a republic at all. It would be a totalitarian state. And I hope you'll see that your concerns will always fall largely on deaf ears when your goals are so selfish. This country was built by immigrants who were spit on by the immigrants that arrived before them. Eventually, they all learned that they must work together, collectively, toward a common goal of freedom and liberty for ALL. It seems as if you, and so many white men, completely missed that entire portion of US history and pretend that since they were born here, their rights were also. They weren't. Your ancestors were spit-upon immigrants who stepped off a boat poor and jobless. It would be nice if everyone kept that in mind when they talk about things like "my rights."
1 post removed
Arthur

United States

#19929 Jul 18, 2013
bacon hater wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not illegal at all to film people without their knowledge. Your image does not belong to you when you're in public. It's public. The metadata you're concerned about could potentially be used to alert police about, say, your repeated trips to a known drug dealer's house. But what alerted police to illegal activity holds no bearing in court. They'd still have to conduct an investigation using traditional methods for a conviction.
And I truly don't mean to "jump on you" for protecting your rights above all others'. I'm just hoping you'll realize that if everyone always did that, this wouldn't be a republic at all. It would be a totalitarian state. And I hope you'll see that your concerns will always fall largely on deaf ears when your goals are so selfish. This country was built by immigrants who were spit on by the immigrants that arrived before them. Eventually, they all learned that they must work together, collectively, toward a common goal of freedom and liberty for ALL. It seems as if you, and so many white men, completely missed that entire portion of US history and pretend that since they were born here, their rights were also. They weren't. Your ancestors were spit-upon immigrants who stepped off a boat poor and jobless. It would be nice if everyone kept that in mind when they talk about things like "my rights."
Did I say it was ilelgal to film people in public? Why do you always twist what I say to suit your purpose. Everytime you answer you say or imply things I never said and are irrelevant to what I have said.
By implication you claim they will not use this illegally obtained evidence and rely on traditional methods to get a conviction. How do you know that first of all,you dont, and they have stated they WILL use this illegally obtained evidence against someone if they want to. The violations of the 4th amendment must stop. That means stop illegally searching everyones emails, phone calls, web activity, and public movements.
You say if everyone protects their rights above all others we wont be a republic but a totalitarian state. All I did was voice my opinions on something. I didnt put anything above or below anything else. I think it is obvious everyone has their own priorities, and you seem to think their is something wrong for me to worry more about something that directly affects me as opposed to something that doesnt. That is idiotic. The ironic thing the things I have been speaking about affect EVERYONE. You are saying the goal of protecting the rights of ALL Americans is selfish? Give me a freakin break. WHat is selfish is only being concerned about the rights of a few minority groups and ignoring the violation of the Constitutional rights of millions. What is selfish is dismissing my concerns and the rights of every citizen because you are only concerned about gays and lawbreakers.

“Comfort the afflicted”

Since: May 13

Afflict the comfortable

#19930 Jul 18, 2013
No, I'm genuinely concerned about violations of the fourth amendment. It's been a significant part of my career. But you said that we are "losing our freedoms" and that we need to "get back to the liberty-loving country we once were." Those are the statements I responded to primarily, because most Americans haven't ever enjoyed the freedoms you clearly take for granted and were never a country that didn't ignore our constitution. I simply said that it's typical for white men (I'm one) to forget or diminish the struggle for freedom that women, blacks and minorities have fought and continue to fight to this day for life-and-death liberties. Then, to hear them bitch about less significant problems is often revered as pompous, ignorant and selfish. That diminishes your message, even when it's a valid one and a genuine concern.
concerned coal miner

Charleston, WV

#19931 Jul 18, 2013
Joe Manchin is already a disappointment for the west Virginia coal miners. He must be voted out of office. West Virginia coal miner
Well Duh

Ashburn, VA

#19932 Jul 18, 2013
Bacon hater.....yes this country was built on immigrants, but that was back when there was land to be had and to build a country. You seem to want to evolve with the rights of others that did not exist back then. As of now we do not need immigrants because we are full up and it no longer applies. We have evolved because blacks have not been considered property after the Civil War. Women can vote and minorities are more protected then they ever were. You were never a slave or your parents and grandparents or great grandparents. But your still trying to cash in on things way back and want people who had nothing to do with it(including you) to try and pay for it both money and guilt wise. The reason the black people are looked at is they keep this alive as though it happen yesterday. So stop the crybaby stuff and move forward and stop the african american crap unless you just came off the boat. Either become just an American and we all move forward together or jump on a boat to Africa and see how they live.
Arthur

United States

#19933 Jul 18, 2013
bacon hater wrote:
No, I'm genuinely concerned about violations of the fourth amendment. It's been a significant part of my career. But you said that we are "losing our freedoms" and that we need to "get back to the liberty-loving country we once were." Those are the statements I responded to primarily, because most Americans haven't ever enjoyed the freedoms you clearly take for granted and were never a country that didn't ignore our constitution. I simply said that it's typical for white men (I'm one) to forget or diminish the struggle for freedom that women, blacks and minorities have fought and continue to fight to this day for life-and-death liberties. Then, to hear them bitch about less significant problems is often revered as pompous, ignorant and selfish. That diminishes your message, even when it's a valid one and a genuine concern.
The thing is women, black, and minorities already have equal protection under the law, with the exception of a womans right to decide what to do with her own body. The ones who do not and you have been speaking of prior are law breaking illegal immigrants. They do not deserve equal rights or anything from this country but a free ticket out of here. I am not sure what these life or death liberties you are speaking of if you are talking in the present. And if you are not you need to quit living in the past. Problems others mention may be less significant to you, but that may be your own selfishness. I personally find the Constitutional rights of every American VERY significant.
Well Duh

Ashburn, VA

#19934 Jul 18, 2013
This is how the government works it sheeple. There are so many things going on that they grab your rights away while we debate or argue among ourselves. Only people that is benifitting from all this is the politicians and big business.
Arthur

United States

#19935 Jul 18, 2013
Tell ya what, my first and most enthusiastic priority is defending and enforcing the US Constitution and the law. Everything else pales in comparison. You can dismiss that as insignificant and selfish, but I think you are sadly mistaken. It is the most important issue affecting this country at present. A government that doesnt follow the law is no longer a lawful democracy or a republic. It is actually the totalitarian state you say you are fearful of. No offense but I find the continued violation of the Bill of Rights a far more serious issue than gay marriage and the rights of illegal immigrants.

“Comfort the afflicted”

Since: May 13

Afflict the comfortable

#19936 Jul 18, 2013
"We don't need immigrants anymore because we're full up." Wow. It takes a really dumb tea bagger to say something so stupid. Read an economics book. 101-level is fine. And anyone that thinks women and minorities are treated the same under the law is equally lost. Read the Lilly Ledbetter Act. And when it was passed, just as an example.
Arthur

United States

#19937 Jul 18, 2013
Well Duh wrote:
This is how the government works it sheeple. There are so many things going on that they grab your rights away while we debate or argue among ourselves. Only people that is benifitting from all this is the politicians and big business.
That is because too many people only care about who is the next American Idol, not their diminishing freedoms. When asked these people dont know and dont care what is happening as long as Rueben Underwood wins.
Arthur

United States

#19938 Jul 18, 2013
bacon hater wrote:
"We don't need immigrants anymore because we're full up." Wow. It takes a really dumb tea bagger to say something so stupid. Read an economics book. 101-level is fine. And anyone that thinks women and minorities are treated the same under the law is equally lost. Read the Lilly Ledbetter Act. And when it was passed, just as an example.
Being "treated" differently under the law isnt the same as having the same legal protections. I will concede that women do not completely have equal rights. I supported the Ledbetter Act among other womens rights proposals. I have spoken out about these things often. So whats your point? I cant object to more than one wrong? Or I am only supposed to speak up when it is approved by you first? Next time you shouldnt make light of someones opinions and objections just because you think others things are more important. No matter how important a particular issues is there are still many others that need talked about.

“Comfort the afflicted”

Since: May 13

Afflict the comfortable

#19939 Jul 18, 2013
Arthur wrote:
<quoted text>Being "treated" differently under the law isnt the same as having the same legal protections. I will concede that women do not completely have equal rights. I supported the Ledbetter Act among other womens rights proposals. I have spoken out about these things often. So whats your point? I cant object to more than one wrong? Or I am only supposed to speak up when it is approved by you first? Next time you shouldnt make light of someones opinions and objections just because you think others things are more important. No matter how important a particular issues is there are still many others that need talked about.
I'm just saying that your arguments would be more effective if they appeared to take into consideration other concerns of value to a broader group of Americans. I suppose I'm biased because I've read your posts previously though. You appear overly concerned about Snowden's freedom and government intrusion and have never spoken out in defense of any of the myriad of people constantly oppressed in this country. That point of view is both shared by many older white men and intentionally created by people who seek to further oppress those groups- older white men.
Arthur

United States

#19940 Jul 18, 2013
bacon hater wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm just saying that your arguments would be more effective if they appeared to take into consideration other concerns of value to a broader group of Americans. I suppose I'm biased because I've read your posts previously though. You appear overly concerned about Snowden's freedom and government intrusion and have never spoken out in defense of any of the myriad of people constantly oppressed in this country. That point of view is both shared by many older white men and intentionally created by people who seek to further oppress those groups- older white men.
A broader group of Americans. I think you better rethink that. The things I have been talking about affect ALL Americans, there is no broader group than that. LOL I am very concerned about the patriot Snowden and the corruption he exposed. I have frequently spoken about oppression of many types of people, but right now I am speaking about something else, the oppression of the entire population by an ever controlling and corrupt government. I think you are overly concerned about gays and lawbreakers rather than the millions of people having their Constitutional rights violated. Considering i am speaking about the rights of ALL Americans right now all your previous points about the rights of others are moot.

“Comfort the afflicted”

Since: May 13

Afflict the comfortable

#19941 Jul 18, 2013
Not really. It's hard to spend much time concerned about cameras that have been on traffic lights for a decade or phone bills that aren't even my property if I have to worry about my wife being unnecessarily probed by sticks in her vagina because a legislator who doesn't even have one said it has to happen. Government intrusion is a zero sum game. We all agree it's bad, it's always been a part of society and all parties are taking an active interest in defeating it. It will always ebb and flow. It's been intense since Bush, we're becoming more aware, so it will decrease in coming years. Then we'll forget about it and it will return, and so on and so on. It's a big deal and warrants concern. But it shouldn't overtake efforts to provide equality to American citizens who don't have it. Especially when there is a group of Americans dedicated to preventing equality. There aren't groups of Americans who love government intrusion.
patriot

Lexington, KY

#19942 Jul 18, 2013
he sold out the second amendment , he sold out the coal miners now WE NEED TO VOTE HIM OUT ! VOTE REP,

“Comfort the afflicted”

Since: May 13

Afflict the comfortable

#19943 Jul 18, 2013
patriot wrote:
he sold out the second amendment , he sold out the coal miners now WE NEED TO VOTE HIM OUT ! VOTE REP,
He was the only democrat to vote against Obama's EPA appointment. And guys, no politician on the planet can save your jobs. Coal is dead. Go to college.
Well Duh

Ashburn, VA

#19944 Jul 18, 2013
Bacon hater.....if you let little thing infringe on your rights they become bigger thing later on. Just like the Patriot Act had become, its intent seemed good but in the wrong hands of power was abused. This administrtion has abused the hell out of the power and constitution. Both parties are crooked, but this administrtion plays the blame displacement game but wants you to think it is all noble. It is called living the lie.

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