Obama health care supporters: Florida...

Obama health care supporters: Florida doctor tells Obama health...

There are 270 comments on the Fox 31 KDVR story from Apr 2, 2010, titled Obama health care supporters: Florida doctor tells Obama health.... In it, Fox 31 KDVR reports that:

A doctor who considers the national health-care overhaul to be bad medicine for the country posted a sign on his office door telling patients who voted for President Barack Obama to seek care "elsewhere." "I'm not turning anybody away - that would be unethical," Dr.

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“Uzi Does It”

Since: Nov 08

UZILAND

#270 Apr 10, 2010
LearnTheTruth wrote:
<quoted text>
Wait a minute here, let's look at this plan. You have an item which costs $100.00. That item has (right now) a 23% tax in it. That is $23 you are already paying in taxes. Regardless of who you are or your income level. Add to that the taxes you are paying on your income and everything else. Under the Fairtax the income tax will be gone, that 23%(or $23) will be removed, then a different (or same however you look at it) 23%(which does not go up)will be added back to the cost of all new consumer products. So are back to the original $100 price for an item, which will not change. You are paying no more than you were before however you are not losing the (approx.) 30% from your income to income taxes. Now, want lower taxes? Don't spend so much money on new items. Someone with an income of $500,000.00 is going to pay 23% tax on anything they buy, someone making $20,000.00 is going to pay 23% tax on anything they buy. How is that not "fair"? Where is the "extra" burden on the middle class? The one thing I find troubling about this plan is it doesn't address state and local taxing.
Better yet, scrap half the nuclear submarines, half of the aircraft carriers, reduce government employment by 60%, reduce governemnt expenditures by 60%, make it so that congress cannot pass any new laws until they balance their new budget. It's time to put them on a low cash diet.

Since: Apr 10

Cedar Rapids, IA

#271 Apr 10, 2010
Richard_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Better yet, scrap half the nuclear submarines, half of the aircraft carriers, reduce government employment by 60%, reduce governemnt expenditures by 60%, make it so that congress cannot pass any new laws until they balance their new budget. It's time to put them on a low cash diet.
That is a good point. There are all kinds of ways to try to make taxes more fair, but you could simply take care of the problem at the root. Just get rid of most of the government spending. Since the biggest part of government spending is the military that would be the first to be downsized.

The problem with this solution is that consevatives (even those who claim to be fiscal conservatives) love big military. If forced to choose between fiscal responsibility and big military, I wonder which one most conservatives would choose. The Ron Paul libertarians would choose fiscal responsibility, but they aren't the majority of conservatives.

Since: Aug 09

Chicago, IL

#272 Apr 10, 2010
I think hell may have frozen over! I agree, at least partially with marmalade. One of the basic jobs of government is to provide for the common defense. That has been increased exponentially to becoming the policeman of the world... and it doesn't work now and has not worked in the past.

The trick and the challenge is to determine how large an armed force is necessary to protect the CONUS, secure our borders and deter aggression against us at home.

We should not be involved in "nation building", spreading "democracy" or providing "foreign aid".

The chances of that happening? Two...slim and none.

Since: Apr 10

Cedar Rapids, IA

#273 Apr 10, 2010
tortminder wrote:
I think hell may have frozen over! I agree, at least partially with marmalade. One of the basic jobs of government is to provide for the common defense. That has been increased exponentially to becoming the policeman of the world... and it doesn't work now and has not worked in the past.
The trick and the challenge is to determine how large an armed force is necessary to protect the CONUS, secure our borders and deter aggression against us at home.
We should not be involved in "nation building", spreading "democracy" or providing "foreign aid".
The chances of that happening? Two...slim and none.
I'm not surprised we agree.

I don't primarily identify as a libertarian (or at least not in how it's commonly used), but I do lean towards libertarianism. I agree with the problem that conservative libertarians point out even if I'm sometimes skeptical of their proposed solutions. My dad is a libertarian-leaning conservative. He is an intelligent guy & I respect his views.

As I see it, mainstream politicians (and maybe most people in general) don't take fiscal responsibility seriously in terms of government. It's not a Republican vs Democrat issue. Many Liberals want fiscal responsibility. I base this on the Pew data that shows the demographic labelled as 'Liberal'(about 1/2 Democrat & 1/2 Independent) strongly supports balancing the budget and lowering the deficit. Going by the data, this is a large and growing part of the Democrat party, but it isn't the majority.

Where I differ from many libertarians is that I do think there are some issues that can't be resolved by the ideal of "free markets". I'm for free markets as are most Americans (including Liberals), but I think free markets only can be sustained by strong regulation of some sort. I don't believe markets have shown themselves capable of regulating themselves.

However, I realize Ron Paul isn't arguing to get rid of all regulation. He thinks the laws already on the books are good enough if they were actually enforced. But therein lies the problem. Who is to police the police? Who is to regulate the reulators?

The wealthiest and most powerful corporations don't want to be regulated and they have the influence to keep regulators at bay. The real losers in all this are the small business owners and the working class.

Since: Sep 07

Golden

#274 Apr 10, 2010
Interesting thread. One thing I would say about cutting military spending though is that I would rather cut other things first, although I do not agree with funding these wars with deficit spending.

Take the Farm Bill- please. NPR ran a great series in the fall of 2007 about this gift to rich landowners. It also encompasses the food stamps allocation, and has historically been a bi-partisan effort, but not this last version. Strange bedfellows of fiscal conservatives and advocates for the truly underserved joined against this monster. Bush threatened to veto it, but there were a lot of pork promises made by Congress in it (both parties), and Dems threatened to smear him as taking food out of farmers and poor peoples' mouths and he caved, as usual. Then when it passed, with a small increase in services to those who need it, they added on millions in reparations to black farmers, which ended up basically doubling the bill with administrative costs. Almost 6 Billion $$$$, with only 17% of small farmers getting a dime. Ridiculous.

The Earned Income Tax Credit. What a misnomer THAT is. I laugh when I hear the United Way commercial about helping people get BACK their EITC- they never earned it, but they actually get a payment if the credit exceeds their very small tax burden. If you have taxable income of up to $43K a year you can take a direct credit of $3,100 p/child, up until they are 23 if a student! And get a refund from it. Even though the regular deduction for children ends when they are 17, no matter what. It is one of our most expensive welfare programs. And it is adjusted for inflation every year, which means with all this spending it will likely soar in the next decade. Just too much, and encourages, like the widened Medicaid program, lack of personal responsibility.

We need these programs and some like them to help the truly needy, but we cannot continue subsidizing so many with so much. I know I am going to have to pay more after the last decade, and we work very hard at our small business and pay double SS as sole proprietors and provide good health coverage. That's OK. But I think EVERYBODY should have to pay something, you know? Or at least not get back money they didn't pay in.

47% of people in this country pay no income tax, whether it's because they are rich, poor, clergy, etc. That isn't right, and I want my taxes to go to defense and roads and education and higher education, not just always programs that create nothing but more gov't jobs and more need.
LearnTheTruth

Yulee, FL

#275 Apr 11, 2010
Richard_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Better yet, scrap half the nuclear submarines, half of the aircraft carriers, reduce government employment by 60%, reduce governemnt expenditures by 60%, make it so that congress cannot pass any new laws until they balance their new budget. It's time to put them on a low cash diet.
I can agree with all of that except for scrap half the nuclear submarines, half of the aircraft carriers!
LearnTheTruth

Yulee, FL

#277 Apr 11, 2010
MarmaladeINFP wrote:
<quoted text>
That is a good point. There are all kinds of ways to try to make taxes more fair, but you could simply take care of the problem at the root. Just get rid of most of the government spending. Since the biggest part of government spending is the military that would be the first to be downsized.
The problem with this solution is that consevatives (even those who claim to be fiscal conservatives) love big military. If forced to choose between fiscal responsibility and big military, I wonder which one most conservatives would choose. The Ron Paul libertarians would choose fiscal responsibility, but they aren't the majority of conservatives.
Yes i truely think we need our military strong, not too sure we need people stationed all over the world in force, I am sure we can cut back on that. I know we can cut back on a lot of things in government. It's just a matter of actually doing/being able to do it.
LearnTheTruth

Yulee, FL

#278 Apr 11, 2010
tortminder wrote:
I think hell may have frozen over! I agree, at least partially with marmalade. One of the basic jobs of government is to provide for the common defense. That has been increased exponentially to becoming the policeman of the world... and it doesn't work now and has not worked in the past.
The trick and the challenge is to determine how large an armed force is necessary to protect the CONUS, secure our borders and deter aggression against us at home.
We should not be involved in "nation building", spreading "democracy" or providing "foreign aid".
The chances of that happening? Two...slim and none.
I guess I should have read ahead before posting my two previous replies. Well said!

“Liberal Teachers ruin Kids”

Since: Mar 09

Paradise Valley Arizona

#279 Apr 11, 2010
John Murthafat wrote:
REPEAL and REPLACE
agreed 100 %!!!
James

Mamaroneck, NY

#281 Apr 18, 2010
Heh, it's a bit sad what passes for news these days. So all a doctor has to do to become famous is put a silly sign in his waiting room? What does that say about our mainstream media? Maybe that it's run by the rich who drop little hints about how they want the country to be every chance they get?

I couldn't help but notice, every time I turned on the main three 24 hour news channels to see what they were saying about healthcare: Fox News was attacking it, CNN was talking about something else (some Earthquake, sex scandal, etc.) and MSNBC had on some show like Lockup Raw. Sure most of the reporters in the media are liberal-leaning, but if they hardly ever talk about anything relevant, the media is not sending a liberal message, quite the opposite.

Also, what does this sign say about the man who made it? Sometimes we forget, but doctors are not robots, they all have their own skill level, ethics, and bedside manner. I once had a really bad doctor that caused me some problems. I'm not sure I would trust this guy with my health. He's obviously pushing his politics in his customers' and coworkers' faces. That says something about his professionalism.

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