How to beat Photo Enforcement

Posted in the Morristown Forum

First Prev
of 12
Next Last
Unconstitutional

Morristown, TN

#1 May 28, 2009
How it works: This private company, known also a ' Photonotice.com ', has set up an agreement with cities around the nation to install their cameras and take pictures of people 'allegedly' speeding, running red lights and whatever else they can say you were doing. They produce the photo, send you a "ticket" in the mail instructing you to pay the City and when you pay it, the City gives Photonotice a big cut of the money. So what you have is a private enterprise making deals with City Government to make profits for both.
<<..........>>
Why it's unconstitutional. When you receive the bill from Photonotice, it will state what your violation is and that it is your burden to prove that you have not committed the offence. If you are not the driver of the vehicle, you are still responsible to pay the fine. The legal system in our country is founded upon the fact that you are "innocent until proven guilty". The way that this company has made a deal with the City to convict you and make it your burden to prove yourself not-guilty is one very obvious violation of your constitutional rights. Another is that any private business who makes money by saying that you broke the law is of course going to have an interest in you breaking the law. In other words, for this business to profit, it has to say that you broke the law and that you must pay them. Without accusing you, they convict you. This is not a City or State municipality, it's a regular corporate company. It's no different then you taking your digital camera out on the side of the road, taking a picture of a car going by and then sending the registered owner a bill for speeding. The way they make their money is that they have made a deal with the City to send you a bill with City markings, instructing you to pay the City, and then the City gives them a percentage. Have you noticed that a regular speeding ticket for going 10 mph over the limit given to you by a cop is around $100.00, but the same speed violation from a photo radar 'ticket' is more like $150.00 to $200.00? The reason is that the large extra money you're paying is going to Photonotice.
Unconstitutional

Morristown, TN

#2 May 28, 2009
When you are given a ticket by a Police Officer, it states that you are not guilty and that you are only signing the ticket to show that you have received it. If you choose to set a Hearing, then it is the Officer's duty to prove to a judge that you committed the offence. There is a thing called "Due Process". The Officer has to show up in court, testify that he (or she) witnessed you committing the offence, and in the case of speeding, caught you with a means such as a radar gun that he has been trained to use and is within current calibration standards. With photo radar, there is no Due Process. They go strait to conviction and make it your burden to prove otherwise. There is no City or State official to witness the offence, and the equipment used to record it is not owned and maintained by the appropriate law-making or legal statute system like a radar gun is. Since photo radar equipment is owned by a private company, then it is subject to defective calibration, malfunction, or even willful adjustment or tampering by it's owners so that it shows an offence being committed when there was none. They can "photo" you going 100 mph if they want to, they own the equipment and have a financial interest in it showing the results they need to make money. This new way of "law enforcement" is purely financially based, and the numbers are an overwhelming success for the cities who use it, and for Photonotice.

How much money do they make? In an average day, there are about 4,000 photos taken of drivers doing everything from running red lights (sometimes yellow lights ) to speeding. There are vans with cameras parked in various places throughout the city just snapping away at drivers as they go by. By the end of the day those images will be transmitted back to Photonotice in Phoenix and approximately 4,000 "citations" will be mailed out to the owners. When each citation ranges anywhere from $100.00 to $300.00, then that means that they are generating around $500,000.00 a day. Half a million dollars a day, folks. And how do they get this much money? Because you're paying it- and you don't even know that you don't have to. Furthermore, you can commit as many red-light running and speeding offences as you want with this system and it won't ever go on your driving record or your insurance. You just keep sending the money in. Is this the design for safety? It would seem that taking away someone's license or restricting their driving privileges would be a solution to multiple-offence drivers. After all, that's why these laws exist right? Well, the fact is that the City and Photonotice want you to keep speeding or running red lights because it makes them rich, and taking away your driving privileges would only reduce their profits.
Unconstitutional

Morristown, TN

#3 May 28, 2009
How to beat them at their own game: When it's your turn to get a bill in the mail for something that Photonotice's cameras say you did, then do not just immediately pay it. There is an option in the letter they send to schedule a hearing. This is what you must do. The City has from 90 days of the violation to schedule your hearing, if they can't schedule you within 90 days then your citation is dismissed. If everyone who gets these bogus bills in the mail requests a hearing, then the courts will become so bogged down that they won't be able to get you in within 90 days. So step 1 is you must schedule a hearing. Step 2, and you can do this without a lawyer, but it helps to have one, show up to your hearing and tell the judge that you want to know how this equipment is legitimately proving your guilt. If you were caught running a red light, this is where your luck will most likely run out. They will play the video of you running the red light. In the case of speeding, they will show a video of you going by and the camera showing the number of the speed you are allegedly traveling. There will be an APD officer present to act on behalf of the cameras, but he/she will have no knowledge of how they work, when or how they are calibrated, if they are accurate, etc. There is no way that they can prove that you are traveling at the speed that the camera shows. It's just some companies' equipment who makes money off having their equipment say that you're speeding. It's not a cop, or a state or city-owned and operated device. It's a private business that has a vested financial interest in making sure you are portrayed as doing something illegal. That is enough of an argument to show that their is a possibility that Photonotice could be altering their equipment to show whatever they want, or that it is possible that their equipment isn't working accurately. That's a reasonable doubt, and reasonable doubt results in inability to prove guilt. Many cases have been dismissed with this argument, but you have to know it to be able to use it.
Unconstitutional

Morristown, TN

#4 May 28, 2009
What if I just throw away the ticket and not pay it? This is the worst thing you can do. The fees will compound and you will be given only three notices to pay. If you don't, then the next time a cop runs your plate- even if your not pulled over- then they can confiscate your vehicle and leave you by the site of the road. You must either schedule a hearing or pay the fine.

Bottom Line: When people just pay the fine without fighting it, it just supports this money-making scheme. More and more towns and cities are ordering these cameras and money is the reason. Of course taking time off work to go to a hearing is unpleasant, but would you rather keep paying these fines over and over? Especially to a company which you owe nothing to? Of course, you can always just never speed or run lights, but let's face it, everyone has gone over the limit now and then. Even cops, lawmakers, legislators, nuns- everyone. Someone just found a way to cash in on it- and the City officials are all about money, so they are signing deals with Photonotice and watching the profits roll in.
A company has no right to force you to pay them without rendering a service or goods of some sort. This is an example of an enterprise that doesn't really cash in on violations of the law, but rather people's ignorance of the law and their laziness to fight for themselves. Most people have more money than time or intelligence, and this is where a company like Photonotice sets the trap. If people refuse to put up with this "big brother" approach to capital gain disguised as law enforcement, then it will go away. But as long as people are paying, it will continue to get more powerful. Just because our system is designed to vote our elected officials into office doesn't mean that they have to do what we want them to when they get there. They are making laws and policy based purely on their own financial gain and power, and not on what is best for you. The choice is yours, either do your part to make this kind of injustice go away, or let it slowly get worse and worse, until you have no power or say at all. There's an old saying, "If you put a frog in a pot of boiling water, he'll jump out. But if you put him in a pot of water and then slowly turn up the heat until it boils, he'll stay there until he dies." Photo radar cameras are the latest example of how lawmakers are taking away our rights and our constitution. And the heat is only getting turned up.
EarnestP

Morristown, TN

#5 May 28, 2009
This make perfect sense. There are several states now that many counties have drove these cameras out by either banning them or just being overwhelmed in the court rooms with complaints and refusal to pay these tickets. I've read this about 18 different counties in USA Today just this month alone. I'm going to do just what you sugggest and fight every damn ticket tooth and nail, and I hope everyone else has the guts to do so as well. Let's all fight for our rights here people. We can't allow these slimy city officials to deny us a fair trial and strip us of our rights. For christ sake let's make a stand as a community on this one. I really hope most of you understand the impact this will have on us as individuals if we just allow this to go on. By federal law they can't deny us "Due Process" so let's not let them.

Since: May 09

United States

#6 May 28, 2009
dude, or maam, you must have put alot of time into the research, way to go. somebody needs to make a stand and it should be us the taxpayers. i will help spread the word so we can all fight this. what will it be next hiring drivers to haul the police around to calls. i understand the economy is bad right now but gees come on lets not take the rest of our constitutional rights away. come on local government some of you just got in so lets work to getting rid of this burden before it really takes a toll on our city. you go bro.

Since: Apr 09

Morristown, TN

#7 May 28, 2009
Uhm.. I thought the fine for photo light violations was only $50 here in town. did I miss something?
way2go

Morristown, TN

#8 May 28, 2009
I commend you for taking the time to research this. I to will fight this just like you've mentioned here in this post. I will not tolerate my rights being taken away from me with these cameras. I will take off work and do whatever it takes to fight any ticket I recieve. Thanks so much for your post, this thoroughly helped us.

Since: Apr 09

Morristown, TN

#9 May 28, 2009
medicineman360 wrote:
Uhm.. I thought the fine for photo light violations was only $50 here in town. did I miss something?
But otherwise, I totally agree with the idea!

Props!

Since: Mar 09

Morristown, TN

#11 May 28, 2009
Unconstitutional wrote:
What if I just throw away the ticket and not pay it? This is the worst thing you can do. The fees will compound and you will be given only three notices to pay. If you don't, then the next time a cop runs your plate- even if your not pulled over- then they can confiscate your vehicle and leave you by the site of the road. You must either schedule a hearing or pay the fine.
Bottom Line: When people just pay the fine without fighting it, it just supports this money-making scheme. More and more towns and cities are ordering these cameras and money is the reason. Of course taking time off work to go to a hearing is unpleasant, but would you rather keep paying these fines over and over? Especially to a company which you owe nothing to? Of course, you can always just never speed or run lights, but let's face it, everyone has gone over the limit now and then. Even cops, lawmakers, legislators, nuns- everyone. Someone just found a way to cash in on it- and the City officials are all about money, so they are signing deals with Photonotice and watching the profits roll in.
A company has no right to force you to pay them without rendering a service or goods of some sort. This is an example of an enterprise that doesn't really cash in on violations of the law, but rather people's ignorance of the law and their laziness to fight for themselves. Most people have more money than time or intelligence, and this is where a company like Photonotice sets the trap. If people refuse to put up with this "big brother" approach to capital gain disguised as law enforcement, then it will go away. But as long as people are paying, it will continue to get more powerful. Just because our system is designed to vote our elected officials into office doesn't mean that they have to do what we want them to when they get there. They are making laws and policy based purely on their own financial gain and power, and not on what is best for you. The choice is yours, either do your part to make this kind of injustice go away, or let it slowly get worse and worse, until you have no power or say at all. There's an old saying, "If you put a frog in a pot of boiling water, he'll jump out. But if you put him in a pot of water and then slowly turn up the heat until it boils, he'll stay there until he dies." Photo radar cameras are the latest example of how lawmakers are taking away our rights and our constitution. And the heat is only getting turned up.
Excellent post, If you clog the system it will break. Remember that folks. Take their money and break their back.....

“Save The USA!”

Since: Oct 08

Constitutional Republic?

#12 May 28, 2009
Winston,... Winston....?
Wonderful

Morristown, TN

#13 May 29, 2009
This is a wonderful idea!!!! I also spoke to my husband who is a local attorney. He agrees 100% and also found your information very useful. Of course he can't do anything against the city until he leaves here but when we move he said he's going to provide everyone with even more information about this than everyone knows right now. There's more to this story with the photo enforcement and I wish I could tell you :(.

Since: Mar 09

Knoxville, TN

#14 May 29, 2009
Wonderful wrote:
This is a wonderful idea!!!! I also spoke to my husband who is a local attorney. He agrees 100% and also found your information very useful. Of course he can't do anything against the city until he leaves here but when we move he said he's going to provide everyone with even more information about this than everyone knows right now. There's more to this story with the photo enforcement and I wish I could tell you :(.
Would this info make a differnce now or could it in the illegal use of these camera's? If so you need to get this post or "drop " the info to someone one else and let them post it. I was certain there was more to this than met the eye. Please this community needs this info to make the powers that be do what is right and legal.

Please stand up for what is right. We can get this info out in such a way to CYA you husband.
Please.....
city trash

Morristown, TN

#15 May 29, 2009
The mayor of this city is a scumbag. She needs to be relieved of her duties immediately. This goes for several of the city councel members and I know that you know who you are. Please stop robbing from the people of Morristown and find someone with a little business sense to run it for us.
Not Sure

Morristown, TN

#16 May 29, 2009
I was told if you did not pay the ticket it wouldn't show up on your driving record but would on your credit. That no legal action could be taken against you because it's a private company. Has anyone else heard this?
true

Morristown, TN

#17 May 29, 2009
Not Sure wrote:
I was told if you did not pay the ticket it wouldn't show up on your driving record but would on your credit. That no legal action could be taken against you because it's a private company. Has anyone else heard this?
That's what the original poster stated in his post. I've confirmed that it does "NOT" go on your driving record and all they want is the money. I agree this sick dispicable excuse for a mayor needs to be fired and these money hogs taken down. I can't believe they want to burden us even more by scamming our entire town and even more disturbing is that no one seems to care or question it.
Bill

Morristown, TN

#18 May 29, 2009
Not Sure wrote:
I was told if you did not pay the ticket it wouldn't show up on your driving record but would on your credit. That no legal action could be taken against you because it's a private company. Has anyone else heard this?
What makes it legal is that an officer watches the tapes and gives the citations. The private company just sends the "infractions" to the City. Then a police officer views the tapes.

But, who the hell knows? This Council and Mayor are not saying anything about the specifics.
Question

Morristown, TN

#19 May 29, 2009
Wonderful wrote:
This is a wonderful idea!!!! I also spoke to my husband who is a local attorney. He agrees 100% and also found your information very useful. Of course he can't do anything against the city until he leaves here but when we move he said he's going to provide everyone with even more information about this than everyone knows right now. There's more to this story with the photo enforcement and I wish I could tell you :(.
I have a legal question about the "violation" papers that are sent out that I really need an attorney to answer (off the record) if your husband is interested, have him email me at camerahelp@hotmail.com
good stuff

Morristown, TN

#20 May 29, 2009
Hey! Thanks for posting this, I just got a ticket for running a red light and was just going to send it in. Now, I'm going to force them to have the machine callibrated. My attorney also confirmed this and said that I do in fact have that right. You're the man/woman!!!!!

C.D.

“ What A Beautiful World”

Since: May 09

Twin Peaks

#21 May 30, 2009
OK. The speed limit on Morris blvd. is 40mph.except in school zones.I didn,t know when morris blvd.crosses cumbland,that the limit is 30.when did they change it from 40.I was doing 41 in a 30.This sucks
Unconstitutional wrote:
How it works: This private company, known also a ' Photonotice.com ', has set up an agreement with cities around the nation to install their cameras and take pictures of people 'allegedly' speeding, running red lights and whatever else they can say you were doing. They produce the photo, send you a "ticket" in the mail instructing you to pay the City and when you pay it, the City gives Photonotice a big cut of the money. So what you have is a private enterprise making deals with City Government to make profits for both.
<<..........>>
Why it's unconstitutional. When you receive the bill from Photonotice, it will state what your violation is and that it is your burden to prove that you have not committed the offence. If you are not the driver of the vehicle, you are still responsible to pay the fine. The legal system in our country is founded upon the fact that you are "innocent until proven guilty". The way that this company has made a deal with the City to convict you and make it your burden to prove yourself not-guilty is one very obvious violation of your constitutional rights. Another is that any private business who makes money by saying that you broke the law is of course going to have an interest in you breaking the law. In other words, for this business to profit, it has to say that you broke the law and that you must pay them. Without accusing you, they convict you. This is not a City or State municipality, it's a regular corporate company. It's no different then you taking your digital camera out on the side of the road, taking a picture of a car going by and then sending the registered owner a bill for speeding. The way they make their money is that they have made a deal with the City to send you a bill with City markings, instructing you to pay the City, and then the City gives them a percentage. Have you noticed that a regular speeding ticket for going 10 mph over the limit given to you by a cop is around $100.00, but the same speed violation from a photo radar 'ticket' is more like $150.00 to $200.00? The reason is that the large extra money you're paying is going to Photonotice.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 12
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Morristown Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
QUESTION, What type of woman contacts a Married... 1 hr Wanna no 18
cops gone bad #9 1 hr Wow 189
rich williams is bald and wrinkled ffag 1 hr Guest of Rich 86
who nos rob registar? 1 hr bigrob0026 35
Ronnie Brady 2 hr balls deep 44
indos are out!!!! 3 hr funny 6
Who all has been busted so far in the 4-17-15 H... 3 hr funny 2
More from around the web

Morristown People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]