NIV is Corrupt As Jehovah Witnesses's...
OVER IT

Morristown, TN

#81 Jan 27, 2013
The Truth wrote:
<quoted text> The KJB translated into other languages is still the KJB. What I have read about Greek and Hebrew is they are two of the hardest languages to translate and English translated into other languages would be easier. I talked with a pastor who use to use other bibles than the KJB and he said in seminary he spent almost all his time trying to learn Greek until God showed him he had been given the written words of God in his mother tongue which is English and he did not have to know Greek and Hebrew to study the words of God.
Then why do you keep going back to the Greek and Hebrew language to make your point? I also must point out in post #79 you referred to Greek mythology, the Greek language and Greek mythology is two different things entirely. The Bible was translated from the Greek and Hebrew language not mythology. Thanks for pointing out we seem to have two The Truths, I was not paying very close attention myself!
hmm

Athens, OH

#82 Jan 27, 2013
The Truth wrote:
<quoted text> God can do anything. He has not chosen to produce another pure bible since the KJB. God tells us in Psalms 12:6&7 "The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." The word seven always means complete or finished in the word of God. The King James bible is the seventh English bible to be translated form the correct Textus Receptus. I truly believe that God will never have another bible translated from the correct manuscripts as the KJB is the complete and finished work of God. We don't need another correct bible as we have all the words of God in the KJB.
its better for me to understand using NKJ Version cause its very much the same and explains and shows the words that may have been edited into laymans terms for todays understanding and meaning;Psalm 12:6-7
New King James Version (NKJV)

6 The words of the Lord are pure words,
Like silver tried in a furnace of earth,
Purified seven times.
7 You shall keep them, O Lord,
You shall preserve them from this generation forever.
hmm

Athens, OH

#83 Jan 27, 2013
AMEN!
hmm

Athens, OH

#84 Jan 27, 2013
i also have the NIV but chose not to use it cause of the same reasons u have that leaves out complete sentences that have relevance or meaning to the verse.
Amen
Pravda

Manchester, TN

#85 Jan 27, 2013
The Truth wrote:
<quoted text> The KJB translated into other languages is still the KJB. What I have read about Greek and Hebrew is they are two of the hardest languages to translate and English translated into other languages would be easier. I talked with a pastor who use to use other bibles than the KJB and he said in seminary he spent almost all his time trying to learn Greek until God showed him he had been given the written words of God in his mother tongue which is English and he did not have to know Greek and Hebrew to study the words of God.
I have to disagree. You yourself just said it was translated in your first sentence. The KJB, from your on words, was a finally "translation". It wasn't translated from a previous version of the KJB, nor from a previous English translation. You said there were corrections made but that is called a revision.

What does Greek and Hebrew being hard to translate have to do with it? Psalms 12:7 says the words will be preserved forever. God doesn't need his words translated to English to be understood, if he did the Bible would have been written in English to start with. I suppose you think the KJB needs to be "translated" into Greek and Hebrew for it to correct.
jamie

United States

#86 Jan 27, 2013
Hadn't been on in a few days but I ask the truth if he believes in apostles and he said sure....well ur wrong there buddy....paul plainly states that if u have never seen jesus christ physically in person then u can't be an apostle....so guess that leaves out the pope

“To thine ownself be true!”

Since: Jan 13

In the shadows.

#87 Jan 28, 2013
The Truth wrote:
<quoted text> Are you a Jehovah Witnesse
No. I am not Jehovah's Witness. I refuse to be a part of denominationalism.

1 Corinthians 1:10 KJV, "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment." When we label ourselves, we segregate ourselves.

Galatians 3:26-28 KJV, "26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

For all are one. ONE! How can we all be "one" when we choose to give ourselves titles and separate ourselves from one another? Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Jehovah's Witness, Adventists, Catholic, Episcopalian, etc...the list goes on. Let there be no divisions...What do you call that?

To finish out the 1 Corinthians I stated earlier. I gave you verse 10 above, here's 11-13:

11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.

12 Now this I say , that every one of you saith , I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.

13 Is Christ divided ? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

In verse 12 we could easily substitute the names of Paul, Cephas, and Apollos, with names like Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian etc. Those are divisions.

Food for thought.
Just a Christian

Morristown, TN

#89 Jan 28, 2013
It is obvious that "Wait...What" is from a Christian Church. They think they are non-denominational, but they're not. They believe water baptism is integral to salvation and that the Holy Spirit is received (spiritual baptism) at the moment of water baptism.

It is obvious that "The Truth" is from a Baptist Church. They think that the KJV Bible was ordained by God himself, and they believe that water baptism is purely symbolic.

I tell you the truth gentleman. You both are a bit right and a bit wrong. God is bigger than both of you and your traditions of belief. I am close to both churches. I am friends with ministers/pastors in both churches and have studied, discussed, prayed over, etc. about these topics ad naseum. Water baptism is both symbolic and necessary. The Holy Spirit can be received at water baptism, but it isn't always. It is received "the hour one truly believes". For many (Christian Church) that's at water baptism, but for many others (Baptist Church) that is when they repent in their heart at the altar. I will say this about the Christian Church though; I've seen a lot of false conversions where the person just got water baptized and never changed. I've also seen many Baptists who repent unto salvation, but are ignorant about translations, original texts, and anything which they can't understand in 5 seconds of analysis. Christ's church is larger than both of you gentleman. God is larger than the KJV version of the Bible too. It is a translation, not the exact script as God inspired the prophets and the apostles to write. The differences between "Hades" and "Hell" and many, many other words are from translation. If you dig deeper into knowledge of Greek and Hebrew words Mr. "The Truth" you will be surprised how many times there really is no perfect translation for those original words into English. Also, some versions of the Bible such as the KJV attempt to translate word for word, which is difficult because in Greek their sentence structure is totally different. The NIV and some other versions attempt to paraphrase more. There is a version called the ESV (English Standard Version) which is actually more "word for word" accurate than any other. All this said, I do sympathize with "The Truth" and what he is insinuating. I do believe there are many perverse translations, but I don't think he or others should be so quick to judge without increasing their knowledge base.
Just a Christian

Morristown, TN

#90 Jan 28, 2013
jamie wrote:
Hadn't been on in a few days but I ask the truth if he believes in apostles and he said sure....well ur wrong there buddy....paul plainly states that if u have never seen jesus christ physically in person then u can't be an apostle....so guess that leaves out the pope
He said he believes in Apostles (i.e. they walked with Jesus). He didn't say he believed their were any still living today. I'm pretty sure you are mis-characterizing the guy on this small subject.
Just a Christian

Morristown, TN

#91 Jan 28, 2013
One more thing I'd like to add here. The English language is ever-changing. I have no doubt that the KJV was an amazingly accurate translation when it came out. I grew up with it and love it. Just know that translations are needed as the language changes. Just as example, what did "gay" mean 100 years ago? What does "gay" mean now? What does "ghost" mean now? What did "ghost" mean 400 years ago? Ghost now mean a ghoul or a spook, and it seems a bit odd to invite a "ghost" into your heart! But 400 years ago, the word meant something else. "Ghost", you see, is a word closely related to the word "guest". It makes much more since to invited a "Holy guest" into your heart now doesn't it? It also paints a beautiful picture of what takes place. "The Truth" you mentioned hell translations, i.e Hades vs. Hell. Do you realize that Hades is from the original manuscript?? The Greek. KJV translators used Hell as the translation. The NIV, in many cases, just didn't translate it. They kept it as the original word. So when you criticize "Hades" you are criticizing the original God-inspired word. Also, it is my understanding that Hades in the Greek language meant "the grave". You know, the place we go when we die to await judgement? Hell can sometimes be too broad of a word. People just think if fire and brimstone. Sometimes that's what the Bible is saying. Sometimes it is not. God does not need man's help in deciding when. He just needs us to study, pray, learn, love, hope, etc. and be like Christ. None of us know it all or have time to blast each other. The time is too short on this earth.
jamie

United States

#92 Jan 29, 2013
Exactly.......no self proclaimed people on this earth today ever walked with jesus back then or walk with jesus on earth now because he is not on earth so therefore certain denominations shouldn't have leaders or whatever calling themselves apostles

“To thine ownself be true!”

Since: Jan 13

In the shadows.

#93 Jan 29, 2013
Just a Christian wrote:
God is bigger than both of you and your traditions of belief. Christ's church is larger than both of you gentleman. God is larger than the KJV version of the Bible too.
I never at one time said that I was "bigger" than god. I never said that any type of religion was "bigger" than god.

As for it being "obvious" that I am from a christian church, you're wrong. I have no traditions that I follow. I am just well educated in the bible. Self educated. You take what you want from it, I'll take what I want from it.
Just a Christian wrote:
They think they are non-denominational, but they're not.
Who would you be to decide that anyway? If you happen to know so much, then by all means enlighten us. Just be sure to cite scripture to back up your point.
Pravda

Manchester, TN

#94 Jan 29, 2013
Just a Christian wrote:
One more thing I'd like to add here. The English language is ever-changing. I have no doubt that the KJV was an amazingly accurate translation when it came out. I grew up with it and love it. Just know that translations are needed as the language changes. Just as example, what did "gay" mean 100 years ago? What does "gay" mean now? What does "ghost" mean now? What did "ghost" mean 400 years ago? Ghost now mean a ghoul or a spook, and it seems a bit odd to invite a "ghost" into your heart! But 400 years ago, the word meant something else. "Ghost", you see, is a word closely related to the word "guest". It makes much more since to invited a "Holy guest" into your heart now doesn't it? It also paints a beautiful picture of what takes place. "The Truth" you mentioned hell translations, i.e Hades vs. Hell. Do you realize that Hades is from the original manuscript?? The Greek. KJV translators used Hell as the translation. The NIV, in many cases, just didn't translate it. They kept it as the original word. So when you criticize "Hades" you are criticizing the original God-inspired word. Also, it is my understanding that Hades in the Greek language meant "the grave". You know, the place we go when we die to await judgement? Hell can sometimes be too broad of a word. People just think if fire and brimstone. Sometimes that's what the Bible is saying. Sometimes it is not. God does not need man's help in deciding when. He just needs us to study, pray, learn, love, hope, etc. and be like Christ. None of us know it all or have time to blast each other. The time is too short on this earth.
I agree on the ever changing of the English language. Awful used to mean something good, full of awe, now its means something bad.
Bombardier

Bowling Green, KY

#95 Jan 29, 2013
You can add, subtract, or change ONE word in a sentence, and it can take on a whole new meaning. The OP may be a zealot, but he's right to a certain degree on this issue in my humble opinion.
Just a Christian

Morristown, TN

#96 Jan 29, 2013
Bombardier wrote:
You can add, subtract, or change ONE word in a sentence, and it can take on a whole new meaning. The OP may be a zealot, but he's right to a certain degree on this issue in my humble opinion.
I agree that the OP is right to a certain extent. But it is also necessary to recognize that the KJV is a translation of an original manuscript. Other translations are from original manuscripts as well. They didn't "change" the KJV. It's also necessary to recognize that words in the English language change meanings over the years. We live in a corrupt world, with corrupted language. Everyone should "study to show yourself approved" - 2 Timothy 2:15, or as the KJV version says "study to show thyself approved".
Just a Christian

Morristown, TN

#97 Jan 29, 2013
Wait-----what wrote:
<quoted text>
I never at one time said that I was "bigger" than god. I never said that any type of religion was "bigger" than god.

I NEVER SAID YOU DID. I WAS JUST POINTING THAT OUT.

As for it being "obvious" that I am from a christian church, you're wrong. I have no traditions that I follow. I am just well educated in the bible. Self educated. You take what you want from it, I'll take what I want from it.

I'M SURPRISED BY THIS. YOUR DOCTRINE IS IDENTICAL TO THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH, AND I'VE NEVER MET ANYONE WITH THAT DOCTRINE WHO WAS NOT FROM THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH OR INFLUENCED BY THAT INTERPRETATION. FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH, I BELIEVE YOU HAVE DONE WELL WITH YOUR STUDY.

<quoted text>
Who would you be to decide that anyway? If you happen to know so much, then by all means enlighten us. Just be sure to cite scripture to back up your point.
WHY ARE YOU ASKING THIS IF YOU ARE NOT FROM THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH? ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THEM AT LEAST? I SAY THEY ARE DENOMINATIONAL BECAUSE THEY ARE. THEY ALL TEACH THE SAME DOCTRINE WHICH IS OUTSIDE WHAT OTHER EVANGELICALS TEACH. THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT IS ALWAYS RECEIVED AT WATER BAPTISM. YOU WANT ME TO BACK THIS UP WITH SCRIPTURE? WE COULD GO AROUND AND AROUND FOR DAYS. I'D PREFER TO ASK YOU JUST TO WATCH FOR INSTANCES IN SCRIPTURE WHICH DIFFER. THEY ARE THERE. BUT YOU ARE RIGHT IN THAT MOST SCRIPTURES MENTION TO "REPENT AND BE BAPTISED" FOR THE REMISSIONS ON SINS. THE QUESTIONS IS ARE THEY TALKING ABOUT WATER BAPTISM OR SPIRITUAL BAPTISM? I'M NOT GOING TO THROW 10 PAGES OF SCRIPTURE AT YOU. JUST PLEASE ASK THAT QUESTION AS YOU READ YOUR BIBLE THROUGH NEXT TIME. I CAN TELL YOU ARE A LOVER OF THE WORD AND OF GOD, AND I LOVE THAT. IT IS FOR GOD TO SHOW YOU, NOT ME.
Just a Christian

Morristown, TN

#98 Jan 30, 2013
Just to clarify a little for "Wait...What". You asked for scripture, and I feel led to provide a few, in spite of what I posted in my last message.

Matthew 3:11
English Standard Version (ESV)
11 “I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

We should all be able to agree here. There is a water baptism and a spiritual baptism. One camp believes the spiritual (holy spirit) baptism is received simultaneously with water baptism. Another believes it is not. Why can't God do it the way He chooses each time? Why do we men try to pin His work down to an exact science? Let's consider ACTS 10 for a moment. This is an example of the spiritual baptism preceding the water. It also the introduction of salvation to the gentiles. I suggest reading the entire chapter, but I will only quote a couple of verses here.

Acts 10:47-48
New International Version
Then Peter said, 47 “Surely no one can stand in the way of their being baptized with water. They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.
Just a Christian

Morristown, TN

#99 Jan 30, 2013
To explain further, water baptism was around long before Jesus walked the earth. When gentiles converted to Judaism, a water baptism sealed the conversion. John the Baptist baptized with water only. Jesus never water baptized anyone. He offered a Baptism that had never been seen before. One with power, with Holy Spirit, and with fire. Let's be careful as we read scripture to understand that there are 2 baptisms, and as Acts 10 clearly shows the baptism with the Holy Spirit and fire can come before water baptism. Does it always happen like that? Probably not. We must leave that up to God. All we know is that without the Spiritual Baptism there is no salvation. As other scripture teaches us, the Holy Spirit is our "deposit" which proves that we are legitimate parts of Christ. Peter recognized that Cornelius had been given this "deposit" and proof, then he called for Cornelius to be water baptized. Water baptism, you see, is necessary too. For it is commanded by Christ. It is our first act of obedience to Him. But it is the symbolic version of the REAL act. The REAL act of spiritual baptism takes place the hour one truly repents and believes. If that is when you hit the water, then so be it. If it's before you hit the water, so be it. Either way, it is God's work and for Him to decide. What we do know is that a man or woman without the Holy Spirit dwelling within them is not a true believer, no matter how many times they have been dunked in water.
A Christian 2

Morristown, TN

#100 Jan 30, 2013
I so agree with everything that you say, you are right on the mark. Life is too short to have all these disagreements, and it makes us Christians look bad to unbelievers. Anyway, it is doctrines that causes us to disagree. The most important thing is to be "born again". The only thing I disagree with you about is sleeping until the judgement. Why would anyone think that the Holy Spirit who lives within us, who comes in our hearts when we are saved goes to sleep? We go to be with the Lord when we leave our earthly bodies, and that is Heaven, my friend, that is where He is, and that is where we will be, no sleeping for me, I know where I am going! God bless us all!

“To thine ownself be true!”

Since: Jan 13

In the shadows.

#101 Jan 30, 2013
@ Just a Christian:

At the end of the day it really comes down to this, perception. Two people can look at and read the same passage of scripture an derive two different things from it. That's where the beauty of discussion comes in. I am not here to tell anyone that they are wrong in how they believe, even if I believe they are. Who am I to judge? Only God knows the status of each individual person, I wouldn't want that burden. I have noticed though that "The Truth" has been keeping silent on here lately. He and I had been debating back and forth for a while, well, I had been debating he just kind of ignores what anyone says to him. I digress...

At the end of the day it all boils down to this: Each person is responsible for their own soul.

Romans 14:11-13;
11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

I will say this; we should strive to help one another in all things that are truthful, not let creeds and doctrine divide us. Like I said in an earlier post, for all are one...and we should all strive to be as such.

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