atheism

[reasonable beliefs]

ATHEISM: The belief there was once absolutely nothing. And nothing happened to the nothing until the nothing magically exploded (for no reason), creating everything and everywhere. Then a bunch of the exploded everything magically rearranged itself (for no reason whatsoever), into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs. AND THEY MOCK THE BIBLE'S ACCOUNT OF CREATION!

[Simple Joe]

So it is ridiculous that we could come from nothing(as you put it). But yet you believe that something that created us came from nothing. Got it.

[RationalOne]

reasonable beliefs wrote:

ATHEISM: The belief there was once absolutely nothing. And nothing happened to the nothing until the nothing magically exploded (for no reason), creating everything and everywhere. Then a bunch of the exploded everything magically rearranged itself (for no reason whatsoever), into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs. AND THEY MOCK THE BIBLE'S ACCOUNT OF CREATION!

I am guessing that you are referring to the big bang. The big bang model does not imply that there once was nothing. According to the model, the universe existed as a singularity. Even time itself existed within this singularity. There are a few problems with this model, but at the present time, it's the best explanation we have since the beginning of the universe could not be observed. There is also the "steady state" model which has been mostly discredited by most scientists because it has many more problems than the big bang.
I want to point out that atheism is not a "belief" in anything. It is simply a lack of belief in a god.
I also want to point out that the big bang and the stories in Genesis do not have to be the only two choices to believe when it comes to the creation of the universe. There could be countless other explanations that we have not discovered yet. Most christians think that if the big bang can be discredited, the talking snake theory wins by default. This isn't the case at all.

[justsomedude]

RationalOne wrote:

<quoted text>
I am guessing that you are referring to the big bang. The big bang model does not imply that there once was nothing. According to the model, the universe existed as a singularity. Even time itself existed within this singularity. There are a few problems with this model, but at the present time, it's the best explanation we have since the beginning of the universe could not be observed. There is also the "steady state" model which has been mostly discredited by most scientists because it has many more problems than the big bang.
I want to point out that atheism is not a "belief" in anything. It is simply a lack of belief in a god.
I also want to point out that the big bang and the stories in Genesis do not have to be the only two choices to believe when it comes to the creation of the universe. There could be countless other explanations that we have not discovered yet. Most christians think that if the big bang can be discredited, the talking snake theory wins by default. This isn't the case at all.

Well said. I often wish i could present my argument with polite , concise clarity like this. Sadly , i guess i will have to stick with sarcasm and thinly veiled disgust.

[reasonable beliefs]

Simple Joe wrote:

So it is ridiculous that we could come from nothing(as you put it). But yet you believe that something that created us came from nothing. Got it.

No, Simple One, there was nothing, you were created, and there still was nothing. By your beliefs and thoughts, there was nothing, and nothing from nothing makes nothing. Hence...you exist and are nothing. Your arguments are more than asinine and ridiculous! Discussing with you accomplishes nothing. Hence, once again, nothing form nothing makes nothing....and there YOU are!

[RationalOne]

justsomedude wrote:

<quoted text> Well said. I often wish i could present my argument with polite , concise clarity like this. Sadly , i guess i will have to stick with sarcasm and thinly veiled disgust.

Oh I have plenty of sarcasm and disgust pent up. I just bite my tongue and at least try to stay civil. lol

[Wait-----what]

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
~Epicurus

[reasonable beliefs]

Wait-----what wrote:

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
~Epicurus

He is able and willing. But He is also "just", and when we choose apart from His will, there are always consequences. We make our own choices. Kind of like smoking for 30 years and then blaming God because you have lung cancer and He won't take it away. It's called consequences.

[Wait-----what]

reasonable beliefs wrote:

<quoted text>
He is able and willing. But He is also "just", and when we choose apart from His will, there are always consequences. We make our own choices. Kind of like smoking for 30 years and then blaming God because you have lung cancer and He won't take it away. It's called consequences.

Just? Really? Where is the "just" when an innocent child gets raped or gets murdered? So according to your theory, what action did the child take to garner such "consequences"? Was it because the child was born? Your argument is weak.

And speaking of choices...your god knows everything right? EVERYTHING. So according to you, god knows everything everyone is going to do before they even do it...right? Okay, so if he knows what I'm going to do before I even do it, then that means that I am predestined to do it, I have no choice but to do the very thing god knows I'm going to do. Okay....free will is rendered null and void. If your argument is true, then none of us are truly free to do what we want. We are just simply following a predetermined path that god already knows, because none of us are powerful enough to change what god already knows.....you following me here? You bible thumpers cannot have it both ways. You cannot be free to make your own decisions when god already knows what you're going to do. That is not freedom.

[Simple Joe]

reasonable beliefs wrote:

<quoted text>
He is able and willing. But He is also "just", and when we choose apart from His will, there are always consequences. We make our own choices. Kind of like smoking for 30 years and then blaming God because you have lung cancer and He won't take it away. It's called consequences.

It is also apparent that your God imposes those consequences on the completely innocent too. How does that fall in the "willing and able" part of the equation? Like when the local druggies pop out addicted or deformed babies. Is that just part of Gods plan to carry out the consequences?...Now back to nothing.

[reasonable beliefs]

Simple Joe wrote:

<quoted text>
It is also apparent that your God imposes those consequences on the completely innocent too. How does that fall in the "willing and able" part of the equation? Like when the local druggies pop out addicted or deformed babies. Is that just part of Gods plan to carry out the consequences?...Now back to nothing.

No, back to everything. It's not God's plan for children of druggies to be affected by their mother and father's discretion. It's not God's fault the babies are born that way, it's the fault of the parents. It comes from choices, and the parents will answer to God for the choices they made. You, simple one, are back to nothing.

[RationalOne]

reasonable beliefs wrote:

<quoted text>
No, back to everything. It's not God's plan for children of druggies to be affected by their mother and father's discretion. It's not God's fault the babies are born that way, it's the fault of the parents. It comes from choices, and the parents will answer to God for the choices they made. You, simple one, are back to nothing.

What about babies born deformed to christian parents? What about children that are burned in house fires or injured in car accidents? What about children with cancer? What monster of a god would punish a child for the actions of someone else? You're the one with no answers. By the way, your "nothing" argument doesn't hold up to scrutiny. There has always been something. If you want to define "nothing". How about the answers you get when you call out to god when you are suffering?

[RationalOne]

reasonable beliefs wrote:

<quoted text>
He is able and willing. But He is also "just", and when we choose apart from His will, there are always consequences. We make our own choices. Kind of like smoking for 30 years and then blaming God because you have lung cancer and He won't take it away. It's called consequences.

Some things do happen because of choices, but these negative consequences can be avoided by using reason and logic. However, many things just happen. People are in the wrong place at the wrong time or some unexpected environmental event causes death and injury. Where is the "justice" when these things happen? Science has really been the savior for many of these calamities. By using science, we can see the hurricane coming and get out of the way. We can diagnose and treat disease. We can prolong and save lives. If god were real and just he would have put the formula for penicillin in the old testament. Think of the millions that have suffered and died an early death due to this omission. Instead we get this foolish verse from the book of Exodus:
28:34 A golden bell and a pomegranate, a golden bell and a pomegranate, upon the hem of the robe round about.(28:34-35) "A golden bell and a pomegranate ... shall be upon Aaron ... that he die not."
Aaron must wear a bell and a pomegranate whenever he enters "the holy place" or else God will have to kill him.
28:35 And it shall be upon Aaron to minister: and his sound shall be heard when he goeth in unto the holy place before the LORD, and when he cometh out, that he die not.

[Gromit]

reasonable beliefs wrote:

ATHEISM: The belief there was once absolutely nothing. And nothing happened to the nothing until the nothing magically exploded (for no reason), creating everything and everywhere. Then a bunch of the exploded everything magically rearranged itself (for no reason whatsoever), into self-replicating bits which then turned into dinosaurs. AND THEY MOCK THE BIBLE'S ACCOUNT OF CREATION!

atheism: the lack of belief in all gods.

thats all it is.

crazy mischaracterization proves you to be ignorant of atheism and what it represents.


i will not debate your ignorance of the subject of atheism, as you have clearly shown yourself unwilling to educate yourself beyond the vague misinformation and propaganda of the christian church concerning the subject.

i will, however, commend you on your excellent trolling.

[Gromit]

reasonable beliefs wrote:

<quoted text>
No, Simple One, there was nothing, you were created, and there still was nothing. By your beliefs and thoughts, there was nothing, and nothing from nothing makes nothing. Hence...you exist and are nothing. Your arguments are more than asinine and ridiculous! Discussing with you accomplishes nothing. Hence, once again, nothing form nothing makes nothing....and there YOU are!

circular "logic" based on an egregious lack of information coupled to a strong sense of self superiority.

[Educated non-meth head]

The original poster doesn't even understand the basic underlying principle of atheism and they clearly show they have zero knowledge of science. Anyone arguing in favor of a biblical account of creation and other accounts must have some problems in the head. Do you not have basic reasoning skills?(If you care to argue the point, please explain to me the fossil record?)

By the way, "reasonable beliefs", atheism is just the denial of theism, hence the "a" before the root. Theism being the belief in at least one deity.

Let me tell you a fact, there is no Christian-Judeo "god" just as their is no allah or any other human created sky god. Just accept it. The Universe is essentially god and the sooner you realize that maybe you can open your eyes and realize the true beauty of how we came to be. Life is amazing, don't complicate it with the supernatural which has zero support.

Humans created god. God did not create humans. For there is no need for a god before humans came into existence. It is deep seeded within human psychology, physiology, and biology to not want to die. It is our psyche that craves the question of an afterlife, a chance to continue on. It is beyond hard to accept that one day this consciousness, this "self", the ego will no longer exist. But it's something that anyone can come to terms with over time.

I'll leave you with my favorite quote,“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.”

[well]

I'm not taking sides, but some christians question (even criticize) science. The bible could be questioned just as easily.

1. When Noah’s ark landed, how did the kangaroos make it back to Australia?

2. If the ark was covered in pitch or tar to make it watertight, it also made it airtight -- how did the animals survive more than one or two days living in complete darkness without any fresh air? Remember, the rain lasted 40 days and 40 nights. Noah couldn’t open the window in the top.

3. Since Adam and Eve didn’t know right from wrong before eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, why did God then punish them for something they didn’t understand they were doing?

4. Why would God place a forbidden tree in the garden so close to his innocent creation and allow Satan to tempt them into eating from it, all the while looking on without doing a thing to prevent it?

5. When the women went to Jesus’s empty tomb, was the stone already rolled away, or did the angels roll it away after the women got there?

[well]

6. On the first day of the week, when Jesus rose from the dead, how many women went to the tomb, and which ones?

7. If you believe the creation account in Genesis is mere allegory, then why don’t you throw out Paul’s epistles? Because he believed that the creation account was a historical fact.

8. How many donkeys did Jesus ride in his triumphal entry into Jerusalem? Was it one donkey, like Mark, Luke and John say? Or was it two donkeys like Matthew said?

9. Matthew and Luke both provide genealogies for Jesus, going all the way back to Adam. Using both of those lists, who was Joseph’s father?

10. Was Jesus crucified on the first day of the Passover like the gospel of John says? Or the next day like the other three gospels say?

11. The Bible tells us that God sacrificed his only son so that we can go to Heaven (John 3:16), but the Bible also tells us that he raised his son back from the dead again. If God didn’t really lose his son, then how is that a sacrifice?

[well]

12. The Bible tells us that God regretted making Saul king (1 Samuel 15:11), but if that’s the case, doesn’t that mean God didn’t know the future? Because if he knew he was going to regret making Saul king, he would’ve never done it in the first place.

13 . If every complex design requires a designer, who designed God?

14. If nothing can come from nothing, then how did God create the universe out of nothing?

15. If everyone who ever lived, prior to Jesus, could get into heaven by simply believing God (Romans 4:17, Galatians 3:6, James 2:23), like Abraham did, doesn’t that make Jesus a little superfluous?

16. The Bible tells us that God isn’t willing that anybody should perish (2 Peter 3:9), but his holy word has been corrupted through the ages by mankind, so doesn’t that mean that God either allowed it to be corrupted, or he was unable to keep it from being corrupted?

17. In the book of James, God instructs Christians on what they should do when they get sick (James 5:14-15). There’s supposed to pray and lay hands on the sick person, and God promises to heal them, so why do you ignore God’s command and run to science every time you get sick?

18. The Bible tells us that Jesus threw a huge temper tantrum in the Jewish temple (John 2:15). He actually made a whip, and whipped these people, and drove them out of the temple, but not before overturning their tables and spilling their money everywhere. The Bible also tells us that Jesus called a Canaanite woman a dog (Mark 7:27). And Jesus insulted the Pharisees by calling them derogatory names at every turn (Matthew 23:13-33). Jesus also lied to his own disciples (John 7:8-10); they asked him if he was going to the feast, he said,“no, my time’s not yet come.� And he turns around and goes to the feast.

19. Jesus also condones slavery and he did not denounce the crimes of rape or paedophilia (Matthew 10:24, Matthew 24:46, Luke 17:7). Not only that, Jesus taught that if you call somebody a ‘fool’, you are in danger of going to hell (Matthew 5:22). Then he turns around and calls several people fools (Matthew 23:17, Luke 24:26). Not only that, the Bible tells us that Jesus explicitly upheld the ghastly Mosaic Law that requires children to be killed if they became unruly (Matthew 15:3-4, Matthew 5:17-18, Deuteronomy 21:18-21).

Is this the person we should be emulating?

[well]

Sorry for posting out of order...computer malfunction.

1. When Noah’s ark landed, how did the kangaroos make it back to Australia?

2. If the ark was covered in pitch or tar to make it watertight, it also made it airtight -- how did the animals survive more than one or two days living in complete darkness without any fresh air? Remember, the rain lasted 40 days and 40 nights. Noah couldn’t open the window in the top.

3. Since Adam and Eve didn’t know right from wrong before eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, why did God then punish them for something they didn’t understand they were doing?

4. Why would God place a forbidden tree in the garden so close to his innocent creation and allow Satan to tempt them into eating from it, all the while looking on without doing a thing to prevent it?

5. When the women went to Jesus’s empty tomb, was the stone already rolled away, or did the angels roll it away after the women got there?