Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

Feb 5, 2008 Full story: Dayton Daily News 31,421

Recommended local sites More... UD sports info, pictures and discussions Are you a UD sports fan? Whether you like basketball, volleyball, soccer, men's or women's teams -- Doesn't matter -- this site is for ... via Dayton Daily News

Full Story
Hold On

United States

#24336 Apr 19, 2013
Just wondering, who does Doug Wiedeman think he is with all his head shaking? So annoying. Go away.
Hold On

United States

#24337 Apr 19, 2013
Here Come da Judge wrote:
<quoted text>After reading your rantings, just remember, the same measure you use to judge others is the same measure by which you are judged.
When did I judge!? Oh you mean by saying the board is insane. Oops. This forum is so full of misinformation and one-sided lies. I truly feel sorry for most of you. Mean hearts. Ps my post you replied to had a typo: do t know when "Monroe's" came from.??
SOS

Piqua, OH

#24338 Apr 19, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Except for question 1 which I don't see how, perhaps that is your question to answer
The rest of them are what the Board of Education have accomplished since January 2012.
Thanks for taking the time to point those things out.
Pretty impressive list of accomplishments in support of our kids.
SOS - Support Our Success!

Why would anyone not rally in support and appreciation of these Amazingly Awesome Accomplishments of our Springboro Board of Education! Our children first budgeting school board representatives are successfully making Springboro a better place for our families to live, work, play, learn...and Play Sports!
Special thanks to our board and school district leaders for all your good work in support of our children first! Please know of our continued support and trust in your decisions during these challenging times for our school district. We Love Successful Springboro!
Really

Englewood, OH

#24339 Apr 19, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
It's called love when you want what is best for the children, not what is most expedient for the adults.
Try it, you may find yourself another person.
Really, Just Watching!... I find it quite ironic that you would know what LOVE is! You have to be one of the most negative people that I know and you are talking about love... Wow!
Really

Englewood, OH

#24340 Apr 19, 2013
Hold On wrote:
Just wondering, who does Doug Wiedeman think he is with all his head shaking? So annoying. Go away.
I think he needs to find the LOVE that he talks about..... Poor man!
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24341 Apr 19, 2013
While I am flattered by your concern, I would be much happier if you demonstrated as much concern, faux or otherwise, for the 2000 plus kids in our district that are not getting the education the taxpayers are already funding.

Someone must be able to point out how any of this interpretation is wrong. Or tell the community why we should jump for joy at these results.

This is what we receive in return after 8 years in our school system,
80% scoring a D or F on the Ohio Achievement Assessment test.
8th Grade 2011-2012 Ohio Achievement Assessment Tests Results.
.
Math .......50 possible points on the test
.
.
This is the low bar the state sets for every school in Ohio so even the urban schools can pass something.
State Rating System and distribution of students for the 8th grade
.
Limited.......... 3 Students
Limited.......... 20% was the Average score for this group
Limited..........definition--0 -10 correct answers =(0-20% correct)
.
Basic..........25 Students
Basic ..........27% was the Average score for this group
Basic..........definition--11- 15 correct answers =(22-30% correct)
.
Proficient........174 Students
Proficient........47% was the Average score for this group
Proficient.........definition- -16-29 correct answers =(32-58% correct)
.
Accelerated.....159 Students
Accelerated.....67% was the Average score for this group
Accelerated.....definition--30 -36 correct answers =(60-72% correct)
.
Advanced........77 Students
Advanced........85% was the Average score for this group
Advanced........definition--37 -50 correct answers =(74-100% correct)
.
Applying Mr. Malone's same grading system used for assigning percentages to grades earned in the college credit program (PSEO)
.
F.....Below 62.99% correct answers.......239 Students
Percentage of Students.....55% receiving F
D..... 63%- 74.99% correct answers......108 Students
Percentage of Students.....25% receiving D
C......75%- 84.99% correct answers........49 Students
Percentage of Students.....11% receiving C
B..... 85%- 92.99% correct answers........36 Students
Percentage of Students.....8% receiving B
A..... 93% correct answers and above.....6 Students
Percentage of Students.....1% receiving A

With Mr. Malone's scale of actual grading, we see that 80% of the children who took the Ohio Achievement Assessment Math Test are not getting the education the taxpayers are funding?

Again, who is underpaid for the above results?
Really

Englewood, OH

#24342 Apr 20, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
While I am flattered by your concern, I would be much happier if you demonstrated as much concern, faux or otherwise, for the 2000 plus kids in our district that are not getting the education the taxpayers are already funding.
Someone must be able to point out how any of this interpretation is wrong. Or tell the community why we should jump for joy at these results.
This is what we receive in return after 8 years in our school system,
80% scoring a D or F on the Ohio Achievement Assessment test.
8th Grade 2011-2012 Ohio Achievement Assessment Tests Results.
.
Math .......50 possible points on the test
.
.
This is the low bar the state sets for every school in Ohio so even the urban schools can pass something.
State Rating System and distribution of students for the 8th grade
.
Limited.......... 3 Students
Limited.......... 20% was the Average score for this group
Limited..........definition--0 -10 correct answers =(0-20% correct)
.
Basic..........25 Students
Basic ..........27% was the Average score for this group
Basic..........definition--11- 15 correct answers =(22-30% correct)
.
Proficient........174 Students
Proficient........47% was the Average score for this group
Proficient.........definition- -16-29 correct answers =(32-58% correct)
.
Accelerated.....159 Students
Accelerated.....67% was the Average score for this group
Accelerated.....definition--30 -36 correct answers =(60-72% correct)
.
Advanced........77 Students
Advanced........85% was the Average score for this group
Advanced........definition--37 -50 correct answers =(74-100% correct)
.
Applying Mr. Malone's same grading system used for assigning percentages to grades earned in the college credit program (PSEO)
.
F.....Below 62.99% correct answers.......239 Students
Percentage of Students.....55% receiving F
D..... 63%- 74.99% correct answers......108 Students
Percentage of Students.....25% receiving D
C......75%- 84.99% correct answers........49 Students
Percentage of Students.....11% receiving C
B..... 85%- 92.99% correct answers........36 Students
Percentage of Students.....8% receiving B
A..... 93% correct answers and above.....6 Students
Percentage of Students.....1% receiving A
With Mr. Malone's scale of actual grading, we see that 80% of the children who took the Ohio Achievement Assessment Math Test are not getting the education the taxpayers are funding?
Again, who is underpaid for the above results?
You do know the difference between percentile and percentage points, right?...... Because there is a difference. Keep tweaking and turning those numbers in your favor to prove your silly point.......poor man.
Genius

Dayton, OH

#24343 Apr 20, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Except for question 1 which I don't see how, perhaps that is your question to answer
The rest of them are what the Board of Education have accomplished since January 2012.
Thanks for taking the time to point those things out.
Pretty impressive list of accomplishments in support of our kids.
Keep hiding still waiting why is 20% sterling for Dayton children?
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24344 Apr 20, 2013
This is what we receive in return after 8 years in our school system,
80% scoring a D or F on the Ohio Achievement Assessment test.
8th Grade 2011-2012 Ohio Achievement Assessment Tests Results.
.
Math .......50 possible points on the test
.
.
This is the low bar the state sets for every school in Ohio so even the urban schools can pass something.
State Rating System and distribution of students for the 8th grade
.
Limited.......... 3 Students
Limited.......... 20% was the Average score for this group
Limited..........definition--0 -10 correct answers =(0-20% correct)
.
Basic..........25 Students
Basic ..........27% was the Average score for this group
Basic..........definition--11- 15 correct answers =(22-30% correct)
.
Proficient........174 Students
Proficient........47% was the Average score for this group
Proficient.........definition- -16-29 correct answers =(32-58% correct)
.
Accelerated.....159 Students
Accelerated.....67% was the Average score for this group
Accelerated.....definition--30 -36 correct answers =(60-72% correct)
.
Advanced........77 Students
Advanced........85% was the Average score for this group
Advanced........definition--37 -50 correct answers =(74-100% correct)
.
Applying Mr. Malone's same grading system used for assigning percentages to grades earned in the college credit program (PSEO)
.
F.....Below 62.99% correct answers.......239 Students
Percentage of Students.....55% receiving F
D..... 63%- 74.99% correct answers......108 Students
Percentage of Students.....25% receiving D
C......75%- 84.99% correct answers........49 Students
Percentage of Students.....11% receiving C
B..... 85%- 92.99% correct answers........36 Students
Percentage of Students.....8% receiving B
A..... 93% correct answers and above.....6 Students
Percentage of Students.....1% receiving A

With Mr. Malone's scale of actual grading, we see that 80% of the children who took the Ohio Achievement Assessment Math Test are not getting the education the taxpayers are funding?

Again, who is underpaid for the above results?
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
You do know the difference between percentile and percentage points, right?...... Because there is a difference. Keep tweaking and turning those numbers in your favor to prove your silly point.......poor man.
All of the above information is based upon raw scoring and the number of questions answered correctly by the students. All of the above information is based upon percentages of correct answers students answered.

What is shocking is that not a single person has refuted either the veracity of these numbers nor the interpretation of them.

These final numbers represent the culmination of 8 years worth of math education in our system. The numbers for each preceding grades get progressively worse each year from third grade onward. I do not believe that our students are becoming progressively dumber each year, or that all of our teachers are becoming progressively less able each year. I do believe that the system which we have devolved into is no longer serving the student, but rather a system.

That system is categorically failing our children, regardless of where they attend school. More money will not make neither good or bad teachers better.

When my wife was cleaning out her parent's home she came across her father's algebra notebook from 1938. Inside were the same equations my son now solves 75 years later. Math has not changed, 2+2 still equal 4. Only the system has changed and it is failing our children.
Compromise

Akron, OH

#24345 Apr 20, 2013
No sir you are failing our children. You and your politician wannabes are not allowing the great parents and teachers to educate the children of Springboro. You clearly have a political agenda to destroy the SEA. You clearly have no idea the difference between percentile and percentage. You won't answer a question when somebody asks you to do so. You stated that Math hasn't changed in 75 years, you're right, 2+2=4, what's changed is the political wannabes you associate with who want absolute power and hate unions because they donate to democratic campaigns. If unions are gone Republicans keep getting elected. This country has no clue what compromise means anymore because of both parties. Until we regain the ability to compromise nothing will ever get accomplished, and the children and society as a whole will suffer.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24346 Apr 20, 2013
Genius wrote:
<quoted text>
Keep hiding still waiting why is 20% sterling for Dayton children?
http://webapp1.ode.state.oh.us/proficiency_re...

The children in Dayton Public Schools are being cheated to an even larger degree than our own.
1023 kids took the same OAA Math test in the Dayton Public Schools, 9 scored 74% or better.

9

You cannot tell me that the other 1014 children are just stupid.

You cannot tell me that the teachers in the Dayton Public School system are that incompetent, they are, after all, amongst the highest paid in the area.

You cannot tell me that the parents of 1014 all could care less.

You cannot tell me that just because someone comes from a poor background they cannot learn.

In the state of Florida a recent census of schools and where children attended revealed that 43% of the states 1.5 million school age children attended schools that were not the neighborhood public school. Recent school choice voucher programs have accounted for roughly 10% of that 43%

The point of the matter is that they system we are playing with is a union rigged game for the benefit of the union, not the children or society at large. When given choice people abandon the public school systems to pursue better options for their children.

When one looks at the numbers that are being produced by that school system it is small wonder.

We cannot, and must not, allow our school's system to become the GM of government programs. As anyone who has resided in Dayton for any amount of time, the number of lost union jobs in the past 10 years has been staggering. Many former union members who once enjoyed jobs that paid $18-$35/hour are working for fractions of that amount today.

Most of those jobs were automobile oriented. But the jobs did not simply disappear, consumers voted with their wallets what they would accept and what they would not. The consumer voted and those automotive jobs went to the non union manufacturers.

In the state of Florida the exodus has begun, let us strive to keep Ohio from following suit.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24347 Apr 20, 2013
The Dayton Public Schools had 1023 take the same 8th grade OAA Math test our children did in 2012

9 children scored 74-100%

79 children scored 56-73%

935 children scored 55% and below.
Springboro Forum

Dayton, OH

#24348 Apr 20, 2013
If the board of ed has a $5 million surplus, why can't they give the staff a raise for one year?

They gave all the administrators that they love a raise. The super is getting $40K more than the last guy. The same with all the central office admins and the assistant principals they hired. They are even hiring MORE central office administrators for next year.

So if they can hire all those people to push papers and they have a $5 million surplus, why not give the staff a raise for one year?
Tired of Forced Unionism

Piqua, OH

#24350 Apr 20, 2013
Springboro Forum wrote:
If the board of ed has a $5 million surplus, why can't they give the staff a raise for one year?
They gave all the administrators that they love a raise. The super is getting $40K more than the last guy. The same with all the central office admins and the assistant principals they hired. They are even hiring MORE central office administrators for next year.
So if they can hire all those people to push papers and they have a $5 million surplus, why not give the staff a raise for one year?
Taxpayers would say, that since the largest cost to taxpayers
in local government is compensation packages, why not tackle this growing cost problem?

Over the last two decades, compensation package increases in state and local governments across Ohio have outpaced inflation year after year. As Ohio's private sector cratered in the last decade, the ability of taxpyaers to fund those high compensation costs has become untenable. Taxpayers never get a break from the heavy financial burden of forced unionism, that now has Ohioans broke.
Out of work, out of money, out of pity for the public service worker, that has it so good with job security and secure future of retirement and benefits.
Buckeye Taxpayer

Piqua, OH

#24351 Apr 21, 2013
Compromise wrote:
No sir you are failing our children. You and your politician wannabes are not allowing the great parents and teachers to educate the children of Springboro. You clearly have a political agenda to destroy the SEA. You clearly have no idea the difference between percentile and percentage. You won't answer a question when somebody asks you to do so. You stated that Math hasn't changed in 75 years, you're right, 2+2=4, what's changed is the political wannabes you associate with who want absolute power and hate unions because they donate to democratic campaigns. If unions are gone Republicans keep getting elected. This country has no clue what compromise means anymore because of both parties. Until we regain the ability to compromise nothing will ever get accomplished, and the children and society as a whole will suffer.
Buckeye Taxpayers would say "Liar Liar Pants on Fire" to the Corona California blogger making the UNTRUE statement "If unions are gone Republicans keep getting elected?" During the past quarter-century reign of "the politics of forced unionism" rigidly enforced by Ohio's outdated 1983 collective bargaining laws, the Republican politicians have ruled in the Governnor's mansion for at least eighteen of those years. So it is a proven lie in Ohio politics, that "if unions are GONE, Republicans keep getting elected." Would you like to acknowledge that you made a boo-boo and offer an apology to Buckeye taxpayers.
Truth is that no matter which "political party" is in elected official power in Ohio, the Taxpayers NEVER get a break from the heavy financial burden of Ohio's state law of forced unionism.

Buckeye Taxpayers know, based on the last 20 years, raising taxes is always the choice selected by school districts. They only cut programs and staff as a threat to get residents to raise taxes. As for REALIGNING the big costly compensation packages, it NEVER enters the conversation.

Truth is, with our current Ohio government's BELIEF that government should pay salaries at a level competitive with the private sector, this UNFORTUNATE and COSTLY outcome of FORCED UNIONISM is not a surprise. Public service IS supposed to be
"sacrificial; meaning, you sacrifice PRIVATE SECTOR pay to serve a larger cause--public service workers SACRIFICE higher pay in the private sector for JOB SECURITY and A DECENT PENSION.(Neither of these securities are guaranteed for Buckeye Taxpayers working in the private sector). Today, both political appointees and bureaucrats get gold-plated pay and benefits largely non-existent in the private sector. The answer is NOT to increase the tax burden on Buckeye Taxpayers still possessing jobs; The answer is not to promote a continuous stream of school levies increasing local taxes on homeowners. The answer is for local governments
(including school district) to REDUCE SPENDING on salaries and compensation pakcages of public service workers (including union employees of Springboro school district.)
Just Watching

Dayton, OH

#24352 Apr 21, 2013
Before I post anything good in this thread today, will somebody pick up my meds at CVS?
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24353 Apr 21, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
Before I post anything good in this thread today, will somebody pick up my meds at CVS?
That was actually pretty original. LOL, smile on my face
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24354 Apr 21, 2013
Springboro Forum wrote:
If the board of ed has a $5 million surplus, why can't they give the staff a raise for one year?
They gave all the administrators that they love a raise. The super is getting $40K more than the last guy. The same with all the central office admins and the assistant principals they hired. They are even hiring MORE central office administrators for next year.
So if they can hire all those people to push papers and they have a $5 million surplus, why not give the staff a raise for one year?
They will have enough money to recycle back through the compensation system as some 28 individuals take advantage of the changing retirement program. This money should free up $500-$700,00 dollars for raises for those that deserve them. This will be at the discretion of the Superintendent of course. If the Superintendent chooses to use that money elsewhere it would be up to his discretion.

This is how business with large employee bases plan for compensation, recognizing turnover, personnel needs, and subsequent market conditions for incoming hires. Money that was once paid to highly compensated individuals becomes seed money for new hires and existing employee compensation. No new money is thus required within the system.

The UNION PROPOSAL plan seemingly wishes to raise the base cost of doing business as a whole requiring MASSIVE INCREASES in the cost of running our schools.

Buried in the SEA Proposal are clauses 15.06(a-c)

Here the union attempts to stipulate maximum class sizes, and IF THOSE CLASS SIZES ARE EXCEEDED THEY WANT MORE PAY on top of their raises.

Example, if a K-3 class exceeds more than 20 kids they want $10 per day extra for each kid.

Current average class size in K-3 currently is about 23, they are asking for 3 kids x $10/day x 185 day school year =$5550 additional for doing the same job they are doing today

$5550 is a 10.3% raise based on the median salary.

This is IN ADDITION TO THE UNION REQESTED 5.6% base salary increase

IN ADDITION TO THE UNION REQUESTED 2 steps back pay (5% each) OR 10% increase for both years.

IN ADDITION TO THE UNION REQUESTED to a new step salary increase (another 5%).

Grand total 31%. pay increase for grades K-3

That would take a new teacher hourly wage from $30.82/hour up to $44.66/hour

32% pay increase

Grades 4-5. The overload payment there kicks in for classes > 22 students. The average class size there is about 26, do the math - an additional $7400 per year for the job they are currently doing.

A teacher with 10 years experience hourly wage goes from $48.51/hour up to $66.43/hour

27% pay increase

Grades 6-12 get more interesting. There if a teachers see more than 144 kids a day they want $2/kid/day for each over the limit.

Example of class size is 25 kids and a teacher teaches 7 periods each day = 175 students each day

175 kids -144 allowable = 31 kid overload x $2 x 185 =$11,470 per year.

A teacher with 20 years experience hourly wage goes from $53.20/hour up to $75.50/hour

30% pay increase.

Our top paid teachers would go from $66.71 up to $92.52/hour

The UNION PROPOSAL wants another to raise the districts annual payroll and retirement cost from roughly $30,000,000 per year to roughly $42,000,000.

Again, tell me who is underpaid at $30.82/hour,$48.51/hour, or $53.20/hour?

Employment, like life itself, is a conveyor belt that carries those who survive upwards until the end,
then the conveyor returns to the beginning to start someone else on the journey.
Taxpayers Forum

Piqua, OH

#24355 Apr 21, 2013
Springboro Forum wrote:
If the board of ed has a $5 million surplus, why can't they give the staff a raise for one year?
They gave all the administrators that they love a raise. The super is getting $40K more than the last guy. The same with all the central office admins and the assistant principals they hired. They are even hiring MORE central office administrators for next year.
So if they can hire all those people to push papers and they have a $5 million surplus, why not give the staff a raise for one year?
How many of these administrators getting a raise are already double dippers?
They want how much

Bellville, OH

#24356 Apr 21, 2013
270 teachers x $2000 average raise would be $540,000. That is a 5% raise and more than most I know are getting. And not everybody deserves a raise. And getting paid that much more to do your job you are doing now is a joke. If you don't like it move over real workers will be more than happy to take it and work here. And $30,$50, or $60 an hour looks pretty good to me. Where do I sign up for indoctrination?

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Moraine Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
The 25 Most Dangerous Cities in the U.S. Are Mo... (Nov '10) 5 hr tcaud 19,486
Ferguson creates talking points in Dayton 10 hr Leon Harrison 1
Regarding agitators and demonstrators in Ferguson: 11 hr Leon Harrison 1
pants up, don't loot! 12 hr masterofconcretep... 3
It was fun, seeing MSNBC's Chrissy the Sissy Ha... Tue The Hack Checker 1
Sheela Angel in East Dayton Tue Fact 2
I aint black an' I ain't on crack... Mon The Duke of Hazard 1
Moraine Dating
Find my Match

Moraine People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

Moraine News, Events & Info

Click for news, events and info in Moraine

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]

NFL Latest News

Updated 2:06 pm PST

NBC Sports 2:06PM
Bills' Jackson takes exception to Whitner comments - NBC Sports
NBC Sports 4:42 PM
Sammy Watkins thought he'd be a Brown
Bleacher Report 7:52 PM
Breaking Down Bills' Game Plan vs. Browns
NBC Sports 9:17 PM
Week 13 skill-position injury report — Wednesday
NBC Sports 4:58 AM
Browns teammates said Josh Gordon needed to "find himself"