Our recommendation: Springboro voters...

Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

There are 31999 comments on the Dayton Daily News story from Feb 5, 2008, titled Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies. In it, Dayton Daily News reports that:

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wow

Springboro, OH

#23815 Mar 11, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
Sot they work 37 weeks per year.
If we only had 10 applications that would surprise me, because according to Mr. Long and Mr. Petrey that number ranged from 200-900 for a single position.
How did the fifth grade do in math on the OAA test in her previous place of employment? Assume 25 students in her class.
How many scored :
93% and above
85-92.99%
75-84.99%
63-74.99%
Below 63%
We would want to compare how her class did against the ones we have here in Springboro to make sure that teacher gets a fair shake and we are comparing apples to apples.
You clearly are not going to answer the question. And who cares if 900 applied? The job is worth what the job is worth, regardless of how many apply. 890 of those applications may be applicants that are not qualified at all or ones that can simply be tossed aside.

Yep, good politician you are.......
Just Watching

Lebanon, OH

#23816 Mar 11, 2013
If you are afraid to address all that goes into a good hiring for the employee and the employer then you will be able to find a number that works.

You have no more of an idea than I would how many are qualified nor how many are unqualified. Making blanket assumptions serves no one's best interest.

You are right that not all 900 would be qualified applicants, but the greater the pool of applicants, the more likely we will enjoy a better selection of qualified applicants.

Now about how their students faired, that would go a long way towards determining how well they teach.

For instance if the teacher works with normal kids and puts 80% of her class in the top two tiers without cheating, that would be something that would be worth much more than someone who consistently puts their children in the bottom tow tiers..
Just Watching

Lebanon, OH

#23817 Mar 11, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
So what is the difference between now and 2008? Could it be less money in the district, 3 superintendent changes, multiple treasurers, a complete removal of administrative office support, multiple principals leaving, etc. The list is endless - so how is this new board helping? Let's see, they are removing electives, giving incentives to teachers to retire early, making all teachers anxious about their jobs, continually telling students they are not good enough (oh - that's Just Watching saying how stupid our kids are - with the Boards blessing I'm sure), etc. How is this a healthy environment for our students?
I am pretty sure most children do not read this type of material. And I never insinuated that our children were stupid, quite the contrary I believe each child is capable of learning this material at a 75% level.

And the children really don't have much contact with a Superintendent, Treasurer, or administrative staff now do they.

The current BOE is reallocating resources to best serve the children, since Mr. Petrey said he was dropping three electives it seems to have morphed into entire sections. This is simply a fabrication if Mr. Petrey is to be believed.

Teachers are coming to the BOE and asking for special dispensation to help them retire with the best pension plan available. In other words the BOE is doing the favor.

All teachers eventually retire. These teachers that will be retiring at one point in their career replaced someone else who was leaving. It is the cycle of life.

The money in the district is fine, as has been noticed by the lack of disaster befalling us.

The fault, dear Brutus, lies not in our stars, but in ourselves...

We adults of this community have allowed this hoodwinking of our children to go unnoticed. Just like those in Washington would rather cut children's tours of the White House rather than forgo a golf date with Tiger Woods, our past administrations have attempted to make everything as painful as possible on the electorate.

Does anyone remember that we could not afford two mile school busing?

No high school bus service?

Pay to participate fees that were $475 for any high school sport?

How bus replacement, maintenance, and technology updates were out of our collective reach?

The degrading of the program of study at the high school for whatever reason that was not backed up by any data or research?

Yes, the fault, dear Brutus, lies not in our stars, but in ourselves......
Just Watching

Lebanon, OH

#23818 Mar 11, 2013
HSTW means High Schools That Work

High Schools That Work is the nation's largest school improvement initiative for high school leaders and teachers.

More than 1,200 High Schools That Work (HSTW) sites in 30 states and the District of Columbia currently use the framework of HSTW Goals and Key Practices to raise student achievement and graduation rates.
Just Watching wrote:
From Pages 10 and 11
A report from Warren County Education Service Center Report on Program of Studies. Commissioned by the Superintendent on a consulting basis to remove any perceived bias from administration or participants.
From Pages 10 and 11
According to Table 8, only 43% of the SHS students have completed the HSTW curriculum, a 34% DECREASE from 2008. Although ­interviews indicate that this sharp decrease is the result of changes in the process for coding transcripts, versus changes in Curriculum, the decrease is still noteworthy. Only 60 percent of SHS students completed 4 credits of CP English, A DECREASE OF 33% SINCE 2008. There was a 5% DROP between 2008 and 2010 with 77 percent of students completing 4 credits of CP mathematics. Eighty percent completed 3 credits of CP science, a DECREASE OF 12%. Only 55 percent of SHS students completed at least 1 concentration, 30% BELOW the HSTW goal.
SHS still offers general level classes (Algebra 1A and 1B, physical science, US History, and World History). Thus, not all students experience a college-preparatory curriculum.
Documents provided to the TAV Team indicate that contrary to the HSTW philosophy, SHS BELIEVES that offering low~level courses is in the best interest of students.­ This belief, however, was not substantiated by research or data.
Although senior projects are being explored, SHS Currently does not'require students to complete a senior project, a necessity graduation in 2014. Thus, they still face challenges for implementing the Chio Core and senior projects over the next three years. Plans for a senior project need to begin several years prior to implementation.
Although SHS offers numerous AP courses and PSEO options, only ZO percent students report they attempted to earn college credit during high school. This is A DECREASE OF 43% from 2008„ and 60 percent below the HSTW
goal. See Table 8.
Although SHS uses curriculum maps and common quarterly assessments, regular monitoring of standards-based instruction is limited. Lessons plans are not submitted or monitored, either by school administrators or colleagues. The Team saw only a few classrooms where state standards were posted or referenced. Only a few lesson objectives were explicit. Department chairs plan time assessment data, but no time is provided to review, analyze or discuss the results of quarterly assessments.
Interviews reveal that common quarterly benchmark assessments ­were developed with minimal teacher input. ln addition, SHS also has not adopted a common protocol for examining cornrnon quarterly assessment data or student work.
During classroom observations, the TAV Team used a walk through process and rubric based on Bloom's Taxonomy to determine the rigor of instruction. The Team visited 105 classes and determined 23% were BASIC level,
58% were PROFICIENT, and just 19% were at the ADVANCED level
Really

Dayton, OH

#23819 Mar 11, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
I am pretty sure most children do not read this type of material. And I never insinuated that our children were stupid, quite the contrary I believe each child is capable of learning this material at a 75% level.
And the children really don't have much contact with a Superintendent, Treasurer, or administrative staff now do they.
The current BOE is reallocating resources to best serve the children, since Mr. Petrey said he was dropping three electives it seems to have morphed into entire sections. This is simply a fabrication if Mr. Petrey is to be believed.
Teachers are coming to the BOE and asking for special dispensation to help them retire with the best pension plan available. In other words the BOE is doing the favor.
All teachers eventually retire. These teachers that will be retiring at one point in their career replaced someone else who was leaving. It is the cycle of life.
The money in the district is fine, as has been noticed by the lack of disaster befalling us.
The fault, dear Brutus, lies not in our stars, but in ourselves...
We adults of this community have allowed this hoodwinking of our children to go unnoticed. Just like those in Washington would rather cut children's tours of the White House rather than forgo a golf date with Tiger Woods, our past administrations have attempted to make everything as painful as possible on the electorate.
Does anyone remember that we could not afford two mile school busing?
No high school bus service?
Pay to participate fees that were $475 for any high school sport?
How bus replacement, maintenance, and technology updates were out of our collective reach?
The degrading of the program of study at the high school for whatever reason that was not backed up by any data or research?
Yes, the fault, dear Brutus, lies not in our stars, but in ourselves......
So why are we doing worse now than in 2008?
Just Watching

Lebanon, OH

#23820 Mar 11, 2013
According to the Warren County Education Service Center who are a group of professional educators evaluating schools.

From looking at the math scores from grade 3 through grade 8 we see a steady decline in understanding year in an year out. Tracking the same classes from 5th grade to 6th grade the next and 7th grade the next year, the pattern remains a steady drop in understanding of the material supposedly covered.
Just Watching

Lebanon, OH

#23821 Mar 11, 2013
The Warren County Education Service Center only looked at the high school program of study. Their conclusion on the high school were rather downbeat.

Read the report and draw your own conclusions.
Just Watching

Lebanon, OH

#23822 Mar 11, 2013
Because the DDN doesn't cover us here is what we have from Cincinnati Community Press

DAYTON — His name was Maverick Morgan, 6-foot-10 center from Springsboro.

His team was Moeller’s opponent in a Division I district final at the University of Dayton March 9. The Crusaders staff had him scouted precisely, just as they do most of their foes.

In the Greater Catholic League, schools prepare to win every step and every second.

However, in March the only stat that matters is the final score and often the third month of the year is the cruelest for those who bounce a ball competitively.

An early deficit of 14-4 in the first quarter and 30-16 at the half was too much for Moeller to overcome as Springboro held off the Crusaders’ mad second-half dash to win 57-56.

“Give their kids and their coach credit,” longtime Moeller coach Carl Kremer said.“They really had a great game plan. They got up on us.”

Kremer recalled a December game in Florida where Moeller dug such a hole, but there had been no previous occurrence in Ohio.

Morgan had nine points in the first half and nine more in the second to lead the Panthers with 18. He also pulled down 11 rebounds. Springboro outrebounded Moeller 32-26 and outshot them 49 to 40 percent.

The biggest difference was at the charity stripe where Springboro was 24-32, getting to the line 15 more times than the Crusaders.

“We had to make the game ugly to get back in it,” Kremer said.“We were able to get back into it, but I give credit to Springboro. They won this game. We did enough to get back into it. They made every free throw they had to down the stretch.”

Sophomore Nate Fowler led Moeller in scoring with 14 points, while senior Keith Watkins and fellow senior Josh Davenport had 12 and 11, respectively, in their final games.

Despite not starting and being hampered early in the season from a football injury, Watkins led Moeller’s resurgence in the second half.

“I thought Keith Watkins willed us back in the game,” Kremer said.“They made the free throws and plays they had to do to win.”

Moeller finishes the season at 22-3, while Springboro goes to 22-4. Instead of a Crusaders’ clash with Walnut Hills at Cintas Center March 13, the Panthers will drive south to play the Eagles.

Even with the tough loss, Kremer was thankful for the time spent with his seniors who have seen many tournament games.

“This is one of the most fun teams I’ve ever had to coach,” Kremer said.“It’s going to be near impossible getting out of this locker room tonight. These seniors are crushed. We knew we had a team that could go deep in this tournament and we ran against a senior-oriented team.”
Wow

Mason, OH

#23823 Mar 11, 2013
Just Watching finally posted something positive about Springboro, everybody duck, the sky must be falling!!!
Oh Yeah

Cincinnati, OH

#23824 Mar 11, 2013
Wow wrote:
Just Watching finally posted something positive about Springboro, everybody duck, the sky must be falling!!!
Here, Here, Cheer! Cheer!

The manner in which "New Carlisle Just Watching" has been presenting solid facts about our schools' shortcomings in promoting individual student achievement....
readers could get the message that EDUCATION is what Springboro schools is all about;

cheers to "Dayton Just Watching" for bringing attention that the ONLY positive thing about Springboro is repeating a Cincinnati news sports article.
Just Watching

Lebanon, OH

#23825 Mar 11, 2013
I suppose if you like lying to yourself, then the status quo is okay by you.

That is fine, it is all about choice.

I happen to choose actual achievement over candy league soccer trophies.

But whatever floats your boat.

We still have over 2000 plus kids in this district that are not getting the education we are all funding.

If you care to refute any of the arguments I have made, please feel free to publish your alternative reading.

Somehow, you never seem to be able to come up with that angle.
For real

Cleveland, OH

#23826 Mar 11, 2013
Howdy There Neighbor wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, now aren't you special! And, oh yes, we are all really SOMETHING; but NONE of us is everything; how about investing some of the next 20 years in just getting over yourself?
No matter that you have squatted here for 20+ years, you have
one choice-one voice-one vote, just like each one of your neighbors.
AND....OH, YES....So does each one of our neighbors, even those who choose not to present their offspring to the union teacher's classroom, with a dollar sign per pupil stamped on the forehead.
We're HERE! We're In Your Face! And we won't back down from the difficult job of doing what's right, even when doing right is not popular with our arrogantly proud parents of boro grads.
You are funny...not, but very sad. You obviously think you are special and need to get over yourself. Right back at ya in your face bud. We will stand our ground and move forward to fight for the injustice that you are preaching. We all need to find a way to get along, not draw a line in the sand. Our community depends on it. You just drew the line, but it will certainly be stepped over.
Btw, my children were never looked upon as a dollar sign by any teacher in this District. You my friend, obviously do so. So your philosphy of putting kids first is really just rhetoric. Now move on.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23827 Mar 12, 2013
Putting kids first means we first and foremost provide them with an actual education, not a semantic trip through the education industry pipeline

As is evidenced by the results of our test scores produced on the Ohio Achievement Assessment and the report on our high school that was commissioned by the Superintendent, we have much work to do.

Our teachers, regardless of how good or bad , are laboring in a system that does not produce the desired results. We simply cannot continue to push forward to our high school children who get less and less of the foundational learning each year.

Digging in anyones heels is always a bad idea, it cost one their mobility of action. Drawing lines in the sand is a false option, the line is arbitrary and can be moved at a whim.

Alacrity is what is required, not intransigence.

2000 plus kids who are not getting the program also cannot wait for another year to go by with no assistance from thinking adults.
Howdy There Neighbor

Cincinnati, OH

#23828 Mar 12, 2013
For real wrote:
<quoted text>
You are funny...not, but very sad. You obviously think you are special and need to get over yourself. Right back at ya in your face bud. We will stand our ground and move forward to fight for the injustice that you are preaching. We all need to find a way to get along, not draw a line in the sand. Our community depends on it. You just drew the line, but it will certainly be stepped over.
Btw, my children were never looked upon as a dollar sign by any teacher in this District. You my friend, obviously do so. So your philosphy of putting kids first is really just rhetoric. Now move on.
We all need to find a way to work together as productive citizens, by agreeing to disagree, agreeably. There are two forces pulsing through the veins of all created beings; these two forces are at odds; so forget about us all just getting along.
We can all just forget about those with whom we don't get along, just MOVING ON out of our lives.
Therefore, this cult-like community rhetoric of sacrificing individuality and principles to just get along; or else just sell our homes and get out of Springboro, is the line that this community-activism social justice for union employees has drawn, between homeowners in this Springboro school district, and union employees/activists in this Springboro school district.
The attitude of the Springboro Education Association activists (fighting social justice for union employees) projected into the homes of city/township residents is not in the best interest of
our students' education and not in the best interest of our economical growth, and not in the best interst of homeowners' property values (which are declining).
So right back at YOU, My severely misguided Unfriend. Your
command to your Neighbors to MOVE ON is just YOUR foolish rhetoric. Get over yourself!
No OEA Indoctrination

Cincinnati, OH

#23829 Mar 12, 2013
Should the White House control what your kids learn?
By Stanley Kurtz
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/09/07/sho...
Editor's note: this piece is adapted from "Spreading the Wealth: How Obama is Robbing the Suburbs to Pay for the Cities " (Sentinel HC August 2012).
The core of the hard-left’s education agenda – a program shared by Obama, Ayers, and Darling-Hammond alike – has three parts: 1) a politicized curriculum that promotes leftist notions of “social justice,” 2) reducing “disparate outcomes” between students in different districts by undercutting standards, and 3) a redistribution of suburban education funding to less-well-off urban schools. Achieving these goals on a broad scale requires the federal government to usurp local control of K-12 schooling.
question

Miamisburg, OH

#23830 Mar 12, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
If you are afraid to address all that goes into a good hiring for the employee and the employer then you will be able to find a number that works.
You have no more of an idea than I would how many are qualified nor how many are unqualified. Making blanket assumptions serves no one's best interest.
You are right that not all 900 would be qualified applicants, but the greater the pool of applicants, the more likely we will enjoy a better selection of qualified applicants.
Now about how their students faired, that would go a long way towards determining how well they teach.
For instance if the teacher works with normal kids and puts 80% of her class in the top two tiers without cheating, that would be something that would be worth much more than someone who consistently puts their children in the bottom tow tiers..
We are not talking about hiring a teacher, this 5th grade teacher that is requesting information about what the pay and benefits are for the teaching position, is already in the teaching position so there isn’t anyone applying for the job.

(unless you wish to fire the teacher and open the position up for new applications, is that what you want?)

This 5th grade teacher is teaching a gifted class of students that have been together in a gifted class since 3th grade and all students score well above any of the numbers you are using to talk about the failing students in the district.

So what will the pay be for this teacher?
Harmful Illusions

Cincinnati, OH

#23831 Mar 12, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
So what is the difference between now and 2008? Could it be less money in the district, 3 superintendent changes, multiple treasurers, a complete removal of administrative office support, multiple principals leaving, etc. The list is endless - so how is this new board helping? Let's see, they are removing electives, giving incentives to teachers to retire early, making all teachers anxious about their jobs, continually telling students they are not good enough (oh - that's Just Watching saying how stupid our kids are - with the Boards blessing I'm sure), etc. How is this a healthy environment for our students?
Our new board is implementing our children first budgeting, focusing on a higher achievement level for all students; And educating Springboro parents, and school district voters, of the harmful illusions of the status quo tunnel vision of collective, excellent with distinction ratings, and the harm to our children's future just continuing with "business as usual" just like the good old days before the 2009 school board election of Kelly Kohls,
our first ever reform-minded board representative.
Just Watching

Lebanon, OH

#23832 Mar 12, 2013
You asked how much a fifth grade teacher should be paid, you left out the rest.

What were the spread on this teacher's students results on the OAA Math test the past three years?

If this person has had the same gifted children the past three those numbers in and of themselves would answer the the bulk of the questions you pose.
Harmful Illusions

Cincinnati, OH

#23833 Mar 12, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
So why are we doing worse now than in 2008?
Dispelling the harmful illusions of over-rated excellence ratings is just the beginning of educating Springboro by our new reform minded BOE majority... we are on our way, but there is a lot of work to be done by our school superintendent to educate his staff of our school district's new philosophy of children first
budgeting.....

Bestowing the label of excellence on districts that do little to provide for students beyond basic proficiency helps no one. Even in elite, affluent suburbs, communities are lulled into complacent acceptance of the status quo even as their children perform at a level nowhere near excellent. This phenomenon is nicely explained by Jay Greene, coauthor of
When the Best Is Mediocre:

State accountability systems and the desire to rationalize the lack of quality options have encouraged the elites to compare their affluent suburban districts to the large urban ones in their state. These inappropriate comparisons have falsely reassured them that their own school districts are doing well. This false reassurance has also perhaps undermined the desire among the elites to engage in dramatic education reform. As long as the elites hold onto the belief that their own school districts are excellent, they have little desire to push for the kinds of significant systemic reforms that might improve their districts as well as the large urban districts. They may wish the urban districts well and hope matters improve, but their taste for bold reform is limited by a false contentment with their own situation.

Radio audiences laugh at the imaginary Lake Wobegon, where ALL students are above average, but Ohio has taken things to a level that some have described as Lake Wobegon on steroids, and the damage to the educational system is becoming evident. It is Time to take an honest look at state standards and to see how these “excellent” districts are truly performing. Parents, policymakers, and the general public no longer can afford to pretend that the emperor is clothed. It is time to take a look at the ugly, naked truth about the accountability system in Ohio.– www.oagc.com
miller thyme

Cincinnati, OH

#23834 Mar 12, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
Putting kids first means we first and foremost provide them with an actual education, not a semantic trip through the education industry pipeline
As is evidenced by the results of our test scores produced on the Ohio Achievement Assessment and the report on our high school that was commissioned by the Superintendent, we have much work to do.
Our teachers, regardless of how good or bad , are laboring in a system that does not produce the desired results. We simply cannot continue to push forward to our high school children who get less and less of the foundational learning each year.
Digging in anyones heels is always a bad idea, it cost one their mobility of action. Drawing lines in the sand is a false option, the line is arbitrary and can be moved at a whim.
Alacrity is what is required, not intransigence.
2000 plus kids who are not getting the program also cannot wait for another year to go by with no assistance from thinking adults.
Alacrity is what is required?

Alls ima saying is, can you expand on that?

Not intransigence?

Can you translate?

Ima just a simple one, protecting union best interests best as I can.

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