Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

Feb 5, 2008 Full story: Dayton Daily News 31,562

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Get Real

Piqua, OH

#23789 Mar 10, 2013
Get real wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you Mr. Board Member. It is time to stop hiding behind fake names and masks.
Oh Yeah, it IS time for Don Miller to reveal his true identity, since we all recognize Don Miller as Just a Lapdog sitting on the board 'barking' for the SEA to get a bigger 'bite' out of our children's portion of our school tax dollars.
Sorry, Don, no more money for union self-interests first--and no more pats on the head for board members promoting union thugs positioning themselves for greater negotiating power.
Howdy There Neighbor

Piqua, OH

#23790 Mar 10, 2013
Parent of Boro Grads wrote:
<quoted text>
You move...we've been here for 20+ years and plan to stay. We have invested in this community. So have my neighbors who are responsible hardworking citizens that raised their children here too. AND...oh wait for it....enrolled their children IN Springboro Schools! How long have you lived here?
Well, now aren't you special! And, oh yes, we are all really SOMETHING; but NONE of us is everything; how about investing some of the next 20 years in just getting over yourself?

No matter that you have squatted here for 20+ years, you have
one choice-one voice-one vote, just like each one of your neighbors.
AND....OH, YES....So does each one of our neighbors, even those who choose not to present their offspring to the union teacher's classroom, with a dollar sign per pupil stamped on the forehead.

We're HERE! We're In Your Face! And we won't back down from the difficult job of doing what's right, even when doing right is not popular with our arrogantly proud parents of boro grads.
Get real

Springboro, OH

#23791 Mar 10, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
The state plays semantic games with the children's future. The state substitutes pleasant and positive sounding euphemisms for actual achievement and in the process robs the student and the taxpayer who funds this scam.
While the state may have foisted another worthless Excellent with Distinction award upon our Junior High School, the factual data reveals anything but in Math.
These scores are not derived solely form the Junior High School, but are a result of a cumulative effort in each preceding grade. Each progressive year from the start of testing in the third grade, the math scores continue to sink year after year. This continual stepping down in achievement ultimately produces the 8th grade where 80% of the kids score BELOW 75% on an assessment test.
Let the readers decide if such "achievement" is really excellent with distinction.
.
.
8th Grade 2011-2012 Ohio Achievement Assessment Tests Results.
.
Math .......50 possible points on the test
.
.
State Rating System and distribution of students for the 8th grade
.
Limited.......... 3 Students
Limited.......... 20% was the Average score for this group
Limited..........definition--0 -10 correct answers =(0-20% correct)
.
Basic..........25 Students
Basic ..........27% was the Average score for this group
Basic..........definition--11- 15 correct answers =(22-30% correct)
.
Proficient........174 Students
Proficient........47% was the Average score for this group
Proficient.........definition- -16-29 correct answers =(32-58% correct)
.
Accelerated.....159 Students
Accelerated.....67% was the Average score for this group
Accelerated.....definition--30 -36 correct answers =(60-72% correct)
.
Advanced........77 Students
Advanced........85% was the Average score for this group
Advanced........definition--37 -50 correct answers =(74-100% correct)
.
Applying Mr. Malone's same grading system used for assigning percentages to grades earned in the college credit program (PSEO)
.
F.....Below 62.99% correct answers.......239 Students
Percentage of Students.....55% receiving F
D..... 63%- 74.99% correct answers......108 Students
Percentage of Students.....25% receiving D
C......75%- 84.99% correct answers........49 Students
Percentage of Students.....11% receiving C
B..... 85%- 92.99% correct answers........36 Students
Percentage of Students.....8% receiving B
A..... 93% correct answers and above.....6 Students
Percentage of Students.....1% receiving A
.
.
.
Is this the level of achievement to which we wish to aspire in Springboro?
.
Is this the best we are capable of given our resources?
.
Should we continue to allow the schools and the state to hide behind euphemisms rather than actual achievement?
.
Demand better, our children and taxpayers deserve a real return on our investment in our schools.
Ok we get it, you are not impressed or proud of the hard work our children put in; you are not impressed with the job our teachers do; you are not impressed with the leadership of the administration. If I add it all up you give a 0 to each of the three with a resulting zero overall. Is there anything about our schools that you can be proud of? If so, what? Your days filled with distaste for everything and everybody must be very lonely and miserable.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23792 Mar 10, 2013
You look at the above results from last years OAA 8th grade math tests and tell me what you are proud of there.

This result is a cumulative result, the result of what these children have learned from 1st through the 8th grade.

Tell me once again, what is it that we are to feel proud of in this case?

We have a system that is not delivering the goods, regardless of how hard people are working.

2000 plus children will pay the price for not getting the education they were promised, not you.

Is it fair that the children pay when we fail?
Get real

Delaware, OH

#23793 Mar 11, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
You look at the above results from last years OAA 8th grade math tests and tell me what you are proud of there.
This result is a cumulative result, the result of what these children have learned from 1st through the 8th grade.
Tell me once again, what is it that we are to feel proud of in this case?
We have a system that is not delivering the goods, regardless of how hard people are working.
2000 plus children will pay the price for not getting the education they were promised, not you.
Is it fair that the children pay when we fail?
Actually yes, I am very proud of them. To gain this type of pride, you would need to be able to see them as people and not just numbers. Give it a try. Pride in your community and the children that make it great is a fantastic feeling.
question

Miamisburg, OH

#23794 Mar 11, 2013
Question JW wrote:
<quoted text>
How much do you think teachers should make?
Anyone, How much do you think teachers should make?
question

Miamisburg, OH

#23795 Mar 11, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
Question JW wrote:
I would like a dollar amount for the lowest teacher you describe and the highest, what do you think is fair?
Where are they teaching? What are they teaching? What grade are they teaching? How good of a teacher are they? Who will they be teaching? Are they right out of school? Where do they live?

Let me know when you get a chance to set the above parameters.
Forget fair, what do you think a teacher should be paid for the job they do?

Where are they teaching? Springboro

What are they teaching? A 5th grade class

What grade are they teaching? 5th grade

How good of a teacher are they? they are a good teacher

Who will they be teaching? Springboro students

Are they right out of school? been teahing 7 years

Where do they live? Springboro
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23796 Mar 11, 2013
Get real wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually yes, I am very proud of them. To gain this type of pride, you would need to be able to see them as people and not just numbers. Give it a try. Pride in your community and the children that make it great is a fantastic feeling.
You are proud that they are getting this bad of a math education?
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23797 Mar 11, 2013
question wrote:
<quoted text>
Anyone, How much do you think teachers should make?
Please set some parameters, like what they teach, who they teach, where they teach, how much experience they have, how good is the experience they have ( I have seen some pretty bad employees in my time who have lots of experience, unfortunately it is all bad experience), what is the market demand for this particular teaching skill, how many applicants do you have to choose from, etc, etc

Not all teachers are created equal and not all circumstances are created equal.

Your open ended question poses no circumstances with which to evaluate and respond to your question.

Given the open ended nature of your question the only possible answer would have to be whatever a teacher was willing to work for on the day they needed to work.

An employer might respond that whatever the market will tolerate given the either limited or oversupply of that teaching discipline the day they need to hire someone.

In between those two point is a number that will fit any situation with the right players involved.

As an employee, ask too much for your services, get no job offers.

As an employer, offer too little for their services, get no job acceptances.

That is how the real world operates.
Question JW

Farmington, MI

#23798 Mar 11, 2013
Question did give you parameters quit avoiding the question and answer it please. We would all love to know.

Springboro
A 5th grade class
They are a good teacher
Springboro students
Teaching 7 years
Live in Springboro
(I will throw one in as well)
Has Earned a Master's degree
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23799 Mar 11, 2013
From Pages 10 and 11

A report from Warren County Education Service Center Report on Program of Studies. Commissioned by the Superintendent on a consulting basis to remove any perceived bias from administration or participants.

From Pages 10 and 11

According to Table 8, only 43% of the SHS students have completed the HSTW curriculum, a 34% DECREASE from 2008. Although ­interviews indicate that this sharp decrease is the result of changes in the process for coding transcripts, versus changes in Curriculum, the decrease is still noteworthy. Only 60 percent of SHS students completed 4 credits of CP English, A DECREASE OF 33% SINCE 2008. There was a 5% DROP between 2008 and 2010 with 77 percent of students completing 4 credits of CP mathematics. Eighty percent completed 3 credits of CP science, a DECREASE OF 12%. Only 55 percent of SHS students completed at least 1 concentration, 30% BELOW the HSTW goal.

SHS still offers general level classes (Algebra 1A and 1B, physical science, US History, and World History). Thus, not all students experience a college-preparatory curriculum.

Documents provided to the TAV Team indicate that contrary to the HSTW philosophy, SHS BELIEVES that offering low~level courses is in the best interest of students.­ This belief, however, was not substantiated by research or data.

Although senior projects are being explored, SHS Currently does not'require students to complete a senior project, a necessity graduation in 2014. Thus, they still face challenges for implementing the Chio Core and senior projects over the next three years. Plans for a senior project need to begin several years prior to implementation.

Although SHS offers numerous AP courses and PSEO options, only ZO percent students report they attempted to earn college credit during high school. This is A DECREASE OF 43% from 2008„ and 60 percent below the HSTW
goal. See Table 8.

Although SHS uses curriculum maps and common quarterly assessments, regular monitoring of standards-based instruction is limited. Lessons plans are not submitted or monitored, either by school administrators or colleagues. The Team saw only a few classrooms where state standards were posted or referenced. Only a few lesson objectives were explicit. Department chairs plan time assessment data, but no time is provided to review, analyze or discuss the results of quarterly assessments.

Interviews reveal that common quarterly benchmark assessments ­were developed with minimal teacher input. ln addition, SHS also has not adopted a common protocol for examining cornrnon quarterly assessment data or student work.

During classroom observations, the TAV Team used a walk through process and rubric based on Bloom's Taxonomy to determine the rigor of instruction. The Team visited 105 classes and determined 23% were BASIC level,
58% were PROFICIENT, and just 19% were at the ADVANCED level
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23800 Mar 11, 2013
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23801 Mar 11, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
Warren County Education Service Center Report on Program of Studies
Bum Links, sorry.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23802 Mar 11, 2013
Question JW wrote:
Question did give you parameters quit avoiding the question and answer it please. We would all love to know.
Springboro
A 5th grade class
They are a good teacher
Springboro students
Teaching 7 years
Live in Springboro
(I will throw one in as well)
Has Earned a Master's degree
What criteria was utilized to determine they are a good teacher? Math scores, reading scores?

How many days per year do they work?
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23803 Mar 11, 2013
And how many applications do we have for the same job with the same criteria you described?

Employment, like selling apples is a supply and demand program. When you have too many the price goes down, just ask any farmer. When you don't have enough, like bushels of corn now, price goes up.
Question JW

Norwalk, OH

#23804 Mar 11, 2013
Typical, avoid answering the question. You set the criteria people gave it to you and you avoid answering, who cares what criteria was used, your criteria was used, answer the question.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23805 Mar 11, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
From Pages 10 and 11
A report from Warren County Education Service Center Report on Program of Studies. Commissioned by the Superintendent on a consulting basis to remove any perceived bias from administration or participants.
From Pages 10 and 11

Documents provided to the TAV Team indicate that contrary to the HSTW philosophy, SHS BELIEVES that offering low~level courses is in the best interest of students.­ This belief, however, was not substantiated by research or data.

Although SHS offers numerous AP courses and PSEO options, only ZO percent students report they attempted to earn college credit during high school. This is A DECREASE OF 43% from 2008„ and 60 percent below the HSTW goal. See Table 8.

During classroom observations, the TAV Team used a walk through process and rubric based on Bloom's Taxonomy to determine the rigor of instruction. The Team visited 105 classes and determined 23% were BASIC level,
58% were PROFICIENT, and just 19% were at the ADVANCED level
Mr. Malone has been principal for over 12 years and this is the progress that he has wrought in over a decade of managing our high school?

Reinforcing the low level classes to get more people better grades with less work? This is good for whom, certainly not the students, the parents of those students, or the community at large.

43% LESS participation in our higher level classes than we enjoyed just 4 years ago?

These do not appear to be opinions, but rather statements of fact that were commissioned, not by the BOE, but by the Superintendent to gain an unbiased, outside view on the quality of education we are pursuing in Springboro.

Trading the false euphemism of " Excellent with Distinction" for our children's actual achievement is unforgivable.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23806 Mar 11, 2013
Question JW wrote:
Typical, avoid answering the question. You set the criteria people gave it to you and you avoid answering, who cares what criteria was used, your criteria was used, answer the question.
You forgot the most important criteria, that of supply and demand?

And you neglected to mention the 37 week work schedule.

The vast majority of professional jobs require 50.

37 weeks is but 74% of 50 weeks, isn't it?

74% of a comparable professional work schedule.
OSBA gone BAD

Girard, OH

#23807 Mar 11, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
8th is that, too often, we have built a bureaucracy in our schools in which, apart from the superintendent of schools, the people who have the responsibility do not have the power, and the people who have the power do not have the responsibility.
In theory, school board associations exist to strengthen public education. One of the ways they do that is by helping school officials stay on top of ever-changing education laws. For a fee, school board associations provide districts with sample policies that help school boards stay in full compliance with the law. That’s pretty benign and noncontroversial.

But critics say school board associations too often veer outside of their narrow, nonpartisan mission and serve as mouthpieces for the teacher unions.

After being elected to the Springboro, OH school board in 2010, Kelly Kohls attended an Ohio School Boards Association (OSBA) training session, and was disgusted with what board members were told.

“They told us,‘You must do whatever your superintendent and treasurer tells you to do’” Kohls says, adding that she speaks only for herself and not the rest of the board. Kohls says OSBA’s trainers also told board members to refrain from visiting schools because it makes teachers nervous and disrupts the learning environment. Basically, board members are trained to leave decisions to the experts and to not ask any questions, she says.

She was not impressed with the advice. Kohls ran for the school board to reform the district’s misplaced spending priorities, not to perpetuate them by playing nice with union representatives and deferring to status quo administrators.

According to Kohls, the OSBA promotes pro-teacher union policies to board members, and even publicly opposed recent school voucher legislation as “bad for education.”

The OSBA’s lobbying efforts and overall philosophy led Kohls to conclude that the organization is “an arm of the union.” The Springboro school board recently voted to cancel its membership with the OSBA.

“I’d like to see an organization that reminds school board members that they work for the community, not the district,” Kohls says.

Ask, and you shall receive!
There is hope!

http://osblc.com/
Question JW

Norwalk, OH

#23808 Mar 11, 2013
Simply amazing

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