what is the meaning of thanksgiving..religious or pagan

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#1
Nov 21, 2012
 
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#2
Nov 21, 2012
 

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Neither. It has to do with the last harvest of the year. It is a time to be thankful for everything you have been given this year.

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#3
Nov 21, 2012
 

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do whut wrote:
Neither. It has to do with the last harvest of the year. It is a time to be thankful for everything you have been given this year.
Nope. Replace your "be thankful for everything" with "pray to your pagan god of the harvest". This celebration has been practiced in MANY religions that are not Christian for thousands of years. Definitely pagan origins, as most celebrations based on a certain time of the year are. May as well accept this as fact and move on.
Facespace

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#4
Nov 21, 2012
 

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The real name should be Happy We Stole Your Land and Raped Your Women Day...That's a more historically accurate description of what the pilgrims did to the Native Americans.

_Ummm_ is also correct. The currently celebrated holiday and many of it's facets are borrowed from various pagan religious practices.

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#5
Nov 21, 2012
 

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What the Pagans did is what they did. Nothing to do with me. I give thanks everyday to the One who supplies all my needs. I did nothing to the Native Americans to be ashamed of. I owned no slaves or started any wars. These people can thank the evil that dwells in the hearts of man for the historical atrosities. Greed, murder, unthankful, unholy people. You are what you choose to be.God knows the heart. Some people just take joy in perverting the good things in life that people today have tried to change. Such as giving thanks to God on Thanksgiving.
uuummm

Chickamauga, GA

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#6
Nov 21, 2012
 

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for southern kentucky it's eating, smoking,drinking

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#7
Nov 21, 2012
 

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uuummm wrote:
for southern kentucky it's eating, smoking,drinking
Speak for yourself. If that is all your life consists of it's your own fault. If you have nothing to be thankful for that is your own fault also.

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#8
Nov 21, 2012
 

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_Ummm_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope. Replace your "be thankful for everything" with "pray to your pagan god of the harvest". This celebration has been practiced in MANY religions that are not Christian for thousands of years. Definitely pagan origins, as most celebrations based on a certain time of the year are. May as well accept this as fact and move on.
You are the one that missed this one. Halloween is the pagan day of harvest. RE: Harvest Moon.
November USED to be a winter cold month. And at this time of the year people were settling in for the cold. Thanksgiving is a purely North American holiday. It was celebratory of the first good harvest in the new year and shared with the natives that helped the 'Pilgrims' through the lean times before.
When one mentions pagan, they should know that those beliefs came out of Europe and the United Kingdom.

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#9
Nov 21, 2012
 
_Ummm_ wrote:
<quoted text>Nope. Replace your "be thankful for everything" with "pray to your pagan god of the harvest". This celebration has been practiced in MANY religions that are not Christian for thousands of years. Definitely pagan origins, as most celebrations based on a certain time of the year are. May as well accept this as fact and move on.
Not sure about the origins of Thanksgiving before Pilgram times. Just speaking to what I have learned about its North American beginnings.

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#10
Nov 21, 2012
 
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Not sure about the origins of Thanksgiving before Pilgram times. Just speaking to what I have learned about its North American beginnings.
Here Ya Go

The Pilgrims left Plymouth, England, on September 6, 1620. Their destination? The New World. Although filled with uncertainty and peril, it offered both civil and religious liberty.

For over two months, the 102 passengers braved the harsh elements of a vast storm-tossed sea. Finally, with firm purpose and a reliance on Divine Providence, the cry of “Land!” was heard.

Arriving in Massachusetts in late November, the Pilgrims sought a suitable landing place. On December 11, just before disembarking at Plymouth Rock, they signed the “Mayflower Compact”—America’s first document of civil government and the first to introduce self-government.

After a prayer service, the Pilgrims began building hasty shelters. However, unprepared for the starvation and sickness of a harsh New England winter, nearly half died before spring. Yet, persevering in prayer, and assisted by helpful Indians, they reaped a bountiful harvest the following summer.

The grateful Pilgrims then declared a three-day feast, starting on December 13, 1621, to thank God and to celebrate with their Indian friends. While this was not the first Thanksgiving in America (thanksgiving services were held in Virginia as early as 1607), it was America’s first Thanksgiving Festival.

Pilgrim Edward Winslow described the Pilgrims’ Thanksgiving in these words:

“Our harvest being gotten in, our Governor sent four men on fowling [bird hunting] so that we might, after a special manner, rejoice together after we had gathered the fruit of our labors. They four in one day killed as much fowl as… served the company almost a week… Many of the Indians [came] amongst us and… their greatest King, Massasoit, with some ninety men, whom for three days we entertained and feasted; and they went out and killed five deer, which they brought… And although it be not always so plentiful as it was at this time with us, yet BY THE GOODNESS OF GOD WE ARE… FAR FROM WANT.”

In 1789, following a proclamation issued by President George Washington, America celebrated its first Day of Thanksgiving to God under its new constitution. That same year, the Protestant Episcopal Church, of which President Washington was a member, announced that the first Thursday in November would become its regular day for giving thanks,“unless another day be appointed by the civil authorities.” Yet, despite these early national proclamations, official Thanksgiving observances usually occurred only at the State level.

Much of the credit for the adoption of a later ANNUAL national Thanksgiving Day may be attributed to Mrs. Sarah Joseph Hale, the editor of Godey’s Lady’s Book. For thirty years, she promoted the idea of a national Thanksgiving Day, contacting President after President until President Abraham Lincoln responded in 1863 by setting aside the last Thursday of November as a national Day of Thanksgiving. Over the next seventy-five years, Presidents followed Lincoln’s precedent, annually declaring a national Thanksgiving Day. Then, in 1941, Congress permanently established the fourth Thursday of each November as a national holiday.

“pervinco per logica”

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#11
Nov 21, 2012
 
Pibbstraa wrote:
<quoted text>You are the one that missed this one. Halloween is the pagan day of harvest. RE: Harvest Moon.
November USED to be a winter cold month. And at this time of the year people were settling in for the cold. Thanksgiving is a purely North American holiday. It was celebratory of the first good harvest in the new year and shared with the natives that helped the 'Pilgrims' through the lean times before.
When one mentions pagan, they should know that those beliefs came out of Europe and the United Kingdom.
A big thing that you are forgetting is that Thanksgiving hasn't always been a late November deal, and I guess you don't really know when the harvest moon is? Go look it up and tell me if your Halloween/Harvest Moon/Thanksgiving is totally different thing holds water.

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#12
Nov 21, 2012
 
_Ummm_ wrote:
<quoted text>
A big thing that you are forgetting is that Thanksgiving hasn't always been a late November deal, and I guess you don't really know when the harvest moon is? Go look it up and tell me if your Halloween/Harvest Moon/Thanksgiving is totally different thing holds water.
ERM... I already corrected myself. Read the post above your's. I just used one of your own tricks. I did it with elegance!

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#13
Nov 21, 2012
 
Pibbstraa wrote:
<quoted text>Here Ya Go

The Pilgrims left Plymouth, England, on September 6, 1620. Their destination? The New World. Although filled with uncertainty and peril, it offered both civil and religious liberty.

For over two months, the 102 passengers braved the harsh elements of a vast storm-tossed sea. Finally, with firm purpose and a reliance on Divine Providence, the cry of “Land!” was heard.

Arriving in Massachusetts in late November, the Pilgrims sought a suitable landing place. On December 11, just before disembarking at Plymouth Rock, they signed the “Mayflower Compact”—America’s first document of civil government and the first to introduce self-government.

After a prayer service, the Pilgrims began building hasty shelters. However, unprepared for the starvation and sickness of a harsh New England winter, nearly half died before spring. Yet, persevering in prayer, and assisted by helpful Indians, they reaped a bountiful harvest the following summer.

The grateful Pilgrims then declared a three-day feast, starting on December 13, 1621, to thank God and to celebrate with their Indian friends. While this was not the first Thanksgiving in America (thanksgiving services were held in Virginia as early as 1607), it was AmericaÂ’s first Thanksgiving Festival.

Pilgrim Edward Winslow described the PilgrimsÂ’ Thanksgiving in these words:

“Our harvest being gotten in, our Governor sent four men on fowling [bird hunting] so that we might, after a special manner, rejoice together after we had gathered the fruit of our labors. They four in one day killed as much fowl as… served the company almost a week… Many of the Indians [came] amongst us and… their greatest King, Massasoit, with some ninety men, whom for three days we entertained and feasted; and they went out and killed five deer, which they brought… And although it be not always so plentiful as it was at this time with us, yet BY THE GOODNESS OF GOD WE ARE… FAR FROM WANT.”

In 1789, following a proclamation issued by President George Washington, America celebrated its first Day of Thanksgiving to God under its new constitution. That same year, the Protestant Episcopal Church, of which President Washington was a member, announced that the first Thursday in November would become its regular day for giving thanks,“unless another day be appointed by the civil authorities.” Yet, despite these early national proclamations, official Thanksgiving observances usually occurred only at the State level.

Much of the credit for the adoption of a later ANNUAL national Thanksgiving Day may be attributed to Mrs. Sarah Joseph Hale, the editor of GodeyÂ’s LadyÂ’s Book. For thirty years, she promoted the idea of a national Thanksgiving Day, contacting President after President until President Abraham Lincoln responded in 1863 by setting aside the last Thursday of November as a national Day of Thanksgiving. Over the next seventy-five years, Presidents followed LincolnÂ’s precedent, annually declaring a national Thanksgiving Day. Then, in 1941, Congress permanently established the fourth Thursday of each November as a national holiday.
Yes. This I knew. Thank you for the great post.
What I am unfamiliar with are the Pagan roots Ummm spoke of.

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#14
Nov 21, 2012
 
Already read up on that.
From the Patheos Library

Paganism represents a wide variety of traditions that emphasize reverence for nature and a revival of ancient polytheistic and animistic religious practices. Some modern forms of Paganism have their roots in 19th century C.E. European nationalism (including the British Order of Druids), but most contemporary Pagan groups trace their immediate organizational roots to the 1960s, and have an emphasis on archetypal psychology and a spiritual interest in nature. Paganism is not a traditional religion per se because it does not have any official doctrine, but it does have some common characteristics joining the great variety of traditions. One of the common beliefs is the divine presence in nature and the reverence of the natural order in life. Spiritual growth is related to the cycles of the Earth and great emphasis is placed on ecological concerns. Monotheism is almost universally rejected within Paganism and most Pagan traditions are particularly interested in the revival of ancient polytheist religious traditions including the Norse (northern Europe) and Celtic (Britain) traditions. Many Pagan traditions are intentionally reconstructionist in that they aim to revive many of the lost rituals of the ancient traditions, including holy days and seasonal celebrations. Besides Nature, many Pagans also worship a variety of gods and goddesses, including spirits which can represent national and local heroes as well as deceased family members. In this sense, many Pagans try to honor their ancestry and ancestors. Some Pagan traditions include ritual magic, but this practice is not universal.



Quick Fact Details:

Formed: Since the religious traditions that contemporary Paganisms draw on and seek to restore are ancient, the early 20th century date reflects only the revival of the practices and the communities that are sustained by them.
Origin: The diversity of Pagan traditions includes myths, histories, and lore from a wide variety of pre-Christian sources, including northern Europeans as well as those of ancient Mediterranean communities.
Followers: The diversity of Pagan traditions has made a comprehensive census nearly impossible. Practitioners also point out that social discrimination against Paganism has kept many from practicing openly.
herpeton

Rockholds, KY

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#15
Nov 22, 2012
 
Pibbstraa wrote:
Already read up on that.
From the Patheos Library
Paganism represents a wide variety of traditions that emphasize reverence for nature and a revival of ancient polytheistic and animistic religious practices. Some modern forms of Paganism have their roots in 19th century C.E. European nationalism (including the British Order of Druids), but most contemporary Pagan groups trace their immediate organizational roots to the 1960s, and have an emphasis on archetypal psychology and a spiritual interest in nature. Paganism is not a traditional religion per se because it does not have any official doctrine, but it does have some common characteristics joining the great variety of traditions. One of the common beliefs is the divine presence in nature and the reverence of the natural order in life. Spiritual growth is related to the cycles of the Earth and great emphasis is placed on ecological concerns. Monotheism is almost universally rejected within Paganism and most Pagan traditions are particularly interested in the revival of ancient polytheist religious traditions including the Norse (northern Europe) and Celtic (Britain) traditions. Many Pagan traditions are intentionally reconstructionist in that they aim to revive many of the lost rituals of the ancient traditions, including holy days and seasonal celebrations. Besides Nature, many Pagans also worship a variety of gods and goddesses, including spirits which can represent national and local heroes as well as deceased family members. In this sense, many Pagans try to honor their ancestry and ancestors. Some Pagan traditions include ritual magic, but this practice is not universal.
Quick Fact Details:
Formed: Since the religious traditions that contemporary Paganisms draw on and seek to restore are ancient, the early 20th century date reflects only the revival of the practices and the communities that are sustained by them.
Origin: The diversity of Pagan traditions includes myths, histories, and lore from a wide variety of pre-Christian sources, including northern Europeans as well as those of ancient Mediterranean communities.
Followers: The diversity of Pagan traditions has made a comprehensive census nearly impossible. Practitioners also point out that social discrimination against Paganism has kept many from practicing openly.
christianity is rife with paganistic teachings; such as the mystery religions.

john, paul, and jude all allude to gnostic teachings.

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#16
Nov 22, 2012
 
herpestongue wrote:
<quoted text>christianity is rife with paganistic teachings; such as the mystery religions.
john, paul, and jude all allude to gnostic teachings.
Dude, ya might wanna have that looked at...
mehen

Rockholds, KY

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#17
Nov 22, 2012
 

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Pibbstraa wrote:
<quoted text>Dude, ya might wanna have that looked at...
for instance, almost all major religions focus on astrology; christianity and islam being the exception because of their profound ignorance.

and the egyptian book of the dead, would have been read over israel and joseph

2 And Joseph commanded his servants the physicians to embalm his father: and the physicians embalmed Israel.

3 And forty days were fulfilled for him; for so are fulfilled the days of those which are embalmed: and the Egyptians mourned for him threescore and ten days.

26 So Joseph died, being an hundred and ten years old: and they embalmed him, and he was put in a coffin in Egypt.

Our god is a consuming fire.

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#18
Nov 22, 2012
 
Thanksgiving is not a Christian Holy Day. Observed as the national day of giving thanks.

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#19
Nov 22, 2012
 
do whut wrote:
<quoted text>
Not sure about the origins of Thanksgiving before Pilgram times. Just speaking to what I have learned about its North American beginnings.
Psalm 92:1

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#20
Nov 22, 2012
 
@ Pibbstraa...Why did you unleash the sleeping giant?? Lol!! Another fine mess you got us into! Now to get him back in his cage!! I'm outta here. You talk to him.. HAHA!!

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