Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

JOEL wrote:

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Global flood is first recorded in the Vedas and thereafter in other cultures.
There's no geological evidence to support the same and it is illogical to speak of taking on board the ship single pairs of the tens of millions of species including aquatic and aerial and subterranean forms that were then present and it is silly to assume that these individual pairs restart life after the flood which would result in incest of the worst kind that would wipe out or retard the subsequent generations.
The global flood myth is a mystical event as narrated in my previous post on the subject.

There is evidence of several floods, but not a global flood which is impossible. Where would the water come from to rise up enough to cover all land?

There was a flood when the Mediterranean broke through at the Bosporous to fill the Black Sea, hitherto a freshwater lake.

There were others when ice dams broke at the end of the last glacial period. This occurred in North America as well as Siberia.

quote

Thus, historians of Vedic texts are frequently left to making highly inferential arguments for the works by various subtle, indirect clues.

Composition:
1200-1000 bce for the family books of the Rig Veda is based on the tentative ...

Earliest hymns of Rig-Veda composed. c. 1000–300 BCE: Iron ...

500 BCE - 200 BCE; Ramayana, 400 BCE - 400 CE; Mahabharata, 400 BCE - 400 CE ...

... rest of the Vedas, about 200 B.C

Actual old texts
The Rigveda was probably not written down until the Gupta period (4th to 6th centuries AD), by which time the Brahmi script had become widespread

As had astronomy
In short...the new kids on the block...

Insect Trust wrote:

<quoted text>
There is evidence of several floods, but not a global flood which is impossible. Where would the water come from to rise up enough to cover all land?
There was a flood when the Mediterranean broke through at the Bosporous to fill the Black Sea, hitherto a freshwater lake.
There were others when ice dams broke at the end of the last glacial period. This occurred in North America as well as Siberia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indus_Valley_Civ...

...and the Ghaggar-Hakra River, which once coursed through northwest India and eastern Pakistan.[4]
The wide river bed (paleo-channel) of the Ghaggar river suggest that the river once flowed full of water during the great meltdown of the Himalayan Ice Age glaciers, some 10,000 years ago, and that it then continued through the entire region, in the presently dry channel of the Hakra River, possibly emptying into the Rann of Kutch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghaggar-Hakra_Ri...

The Yamuna shifted its course eastwards, supposedly in the early 2nd millennium BCE, allegedly reaching its current bed by 1st millennium BCE, while the Drishadvati bed retained only a small seasonal flow. The Sutlej several times over shifted its channel northwards and was eventually captured by the Indus system. The water loss due to these movements caused the Sarasvati river to dry up in the Thar Desert.[14][15]

Which got blocked by earthquake and dammed up debris near the Himalaya and caused a massive surge/flood when it had to find a new course.

The Rig Vedic hymn X 75, however, gives a list of names of rivers where Sarasvati is merely mentioned while Sindhu receives praise.

It ended what is thought the Meluhha tradecity near the sea around 2000 bce.
Very old songs in the region relate the time of the golden river.
see map Late Harappan Period, c. 1900-1300 BCE

o.f.i.
Outposts of the Indus Valley civilization were excavated as far west as Sutkagan Dor in Baluchistan, as far north as at Shortugai on the Amu Darya (the river's ancient name was Oxus) in current Afghanistan, as far east as at Alamgirpur, Uttar Pradesh, India and as far south as at Malwan, Surat Dist., India.[17]

In 2010, heavy floods hit Haryana in India and damaged the archaeological site of Jognakhera, where ancient copper smelting were found dating back almost 5,000 years. The Indus Valley Civilization site was hit by almost 10 feet of water as the Sutlej Yamuna link canal overflowed.[18]

Which would have been normal since cities had huge basins and canals to take any kind of wanted flooding to their advantage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghaggar-Hakra_Ri...
an intermittent river

ASTRONOMICAL EVIDENCE OF THE ANTIQUITY OF INDO-ARYAN CIVILIZATION:

NOTE: The following piece of research dates back to Krishna, a recent figure in the annals of Indic religion, but the history of the Vedas precedes the age of Krishna and goes back tens of thousands of years to the true home of the Vedic Aryans which was the circumpolar region. Dr B G Tilak and other scholars have used the textual information to corroborate this origin of the Aryans and the Zend Avesta supports it with other astronomical observations.

RECENT ADVANCES

1) Dr Narhari Achar, professor of physics at the University of Memphis, Tennessee, has dated the Mahabharata war, in which Krishna features, using astronomy and regular planetarium software. According to his research conducted in 2004-05, the titanic clash between the Pandavas and the Kauravas took place in 3067 BC. Using the same software, Dr Achar places the year of Krishna’s birth at 3112 BC.

2) Dr Manish Pandit, a nuclear medicine physician in the UK, after examining the astronomical, archaeological and linguistic evidence, agrees with Dr Achar’s conclusions. Dr Pandit, who is also a distinguished astrologer and has written several books on the subject, traced the route of Krishna’s journeys to shoot the documentary,“Krishna: History or Myth?” Dr Pandit says there are more than 140 astronomy references in the Mahabharata. Simulations of the night sky have been combined with geographical descriptions to arrive at various dates. He says the chances of these references repeating are next to nothing.

4) According to historian S.M. Ali, the author of Geography of Puranas,“The geographical matter contained in the Mahabharata is immense. It is perhaps the only great work which deals with geographic details and not incidentally, as other works.”

5) Google: Time Line of Krishna -

(An Excerpt from "Advancements of Ancient India’s Vedic Culture")

By Stephen Knapp

6) The date of Rama goes back much further than the date of Krishna on Indian soil.

Remember: The research using the Vedas themselves shows that the Vedas were initiated at the arctic region many millennia ago. The events relating to India like say the narratives of Rama and Krishna arise after the migration from the arctic region of a few lines of the Aryans into Persia and India.

RAMA PREDATES KRISHNA

1) Another point we could discuss is the approximate date of Rama.

2) Rama appeared in the Solar Dynasty, but even the time frame of his appearance may shed more light on the antiquity of Vedic culture on Indian soil after the Aryans entered India.

3) Naturally, scholars have different views on when he may have existed. Some say he was here a few thousand years before Krishna. In fact, in an April 2011 edition of the Times of India, Saurabh Kwatra writes that using the zodiac and the recorded tithees, days marked according to the phases of the moon, he calculated that the birth of Rama, as related in the Valmiki Ramayana, was December 4th, 7323 BCE.

4) While using other forms of planetary computer software, others have come up with other dates. Though these may be some of the more recent calculations, still the tradition places the era of Rama much earlier than that.

ELEPHANTS WITH 4 TUSKS - DID RAMA LIVE 18 MILLIONS YEARS AGO?

1) The Vayu Purana (70.48) says:

".....the misbehaving Ravana was killed with his kiths and kins in a war with Rama in the 24th Treta-yuga. We are presently in the 28th chaturyuga (cycle of 1000 yugas) of the Vaivasvat manvantara. Furthermore, this is corroborated by Rupa Goswami in his Laghu Bhagavatamrita that Rama appeared in the Treta-yuga of the 24th yuga cycle. There are 71 cycles of the four yugas in a manvantara period, which would mean the appearance of Rama would be about 18 million years ago."

2) Another very interesting point is that in the Suderkand section of the Valmiki Ramayana (5.4.27) elephants with four tusks are mentioned as standing at the gates of Ravana’s palace. Also in 5.27.12 a vile woman named Trijata sees Rama mounted on a great elephant with four tusks. The fact that they knew of elephants with four tusks is very intriguing, since, scientifically speaking, a quick reference to the elephant with four tusks is called a Mastondontoidea, which is calculated to have evolved around 38 million years ago, and is suspected of becoming extinct around 15 million years ago.

COMMENT: Shocking and very had to believe!

REFERENCES

1. B. N. Narahari Achar, Origin of Indian Civilization, Edited by Bal Ram Singh, Center for Indic Studies, Dartmought, USA, 2010, p. 203.

2. Nicholas Kazanas, Origin of Indian Civilization, Edited by Bal Ram Singh, Center for Indic Studies, Dartmought, USA, 2010, p. 53.

3. B. N. Narahari Achar, Origin of Indian Civilization, Edited by Bal Ram Singh, Center for Indic Studies, Dartmought, USA, 2010, p. 225.

4. Ibid., p. 231.

5. Ibid., p. 244.

6. Nicholas Kazanas, Origin of Indian Civilization, Edited by Bal Ram Singh, Center for Indic Studies, Dartmouth, USA, 2010, p. 53.

7. V. S. Agrawal, India in the Days of Panini, 1953.

8. B. N. Narahari Achar, Origin of Indian Civilization, Edited by Bal Ram Singh, Center for Indic Studies, Dartmought, USA, 2010, p. 246-7.

ANCIENT CITY OF KRISHNA DATING BACK 9,000 YEARS FOUND

1) Marine archaeological explorations since the 1980s off Dwarka have brought to light a large number of stone structures. They are are semicircular, rectangular and square in shape and are in water depth ranging from inter tidal zone to 6 m. They are randomly scattered over a vast area. Besides these structures, a large number of varieties of stone anchors have been noticed along the structures as well as beyond 6 m water depth.

2) These findings recorded by the Archaeological Survey of India suggest that Dwarka was one of the most busy port centers during the past on the west coast of India. The comparative study of surrounding sites indicates that the date of the structures of Dwarka may be between Historical period and late medieval period. Mainstream scientists maintain that ancient Indian culture/civilization goes back some 4-5 thousand years. Yet the ruins below the Gulf of Cambay go back at least 9 thousand years, i.e. to the time when the area submerged under water. This means that the city must have existed before the flooding, i.e. at least 9000 years ago.

3) The explorations conducted in the Gulf of Cambay waters revealed sandstone walls, a grid of streets and some evidence of a sea port 70 feet under water. The ruins have been proclaimed the remains of the legendary lost city of Dwarka which, according to ancient Hindu texts, was the dwelling place of the deity known as Krishna.

The submerged Dwarka ruins fully discovered in 2000 and investigated with acoustic techniques, are known as the Gulf of Khambat Cultural Complex. They’re 131 feet beneath the surface. One of the artifacts dredged up by scientists was dated around 7500 BCE, which could support the theories that it is, in fact, the ancient Dwarka.

JOEL wrote:

ANCIENT CITY OF KRISHNA DATING BACK 9,000 YEARS FOUND
1) Marine archaeological explorations since the 1980s off Dwarka have brought to light a large number of stone structures. They are are semicircular, rectangular and square in shape and are in water depth ranging from inter tidal zone to 6 m. They are randomly scattered over a vast area. Besides these structures, a large number of varieties of stone anchors have been noticed along the structures as well as beyond 6 m water depth.

Aha, proof of the great flood.

JOEL wrote:

ANCIENT CITY OF KRISHNA DATING BACK 9,000 YEARS FOUND

3) The explorations conducted in the Gulf of Cambay waters revealed sandstone walls, a grid of streets and some evidence of a sea port 70 feet under water. The ruins have been proclaimed the remains of the legendary lost city of Dwarka which, according to ancient Hindu texts, was the dwelling place of the deity known as Krishna.

I guess Krishna didnt fare so well, did he?

Maybe you should reconsider Yawe

MORE ON MIND-MATTER:

A)

1) QM is unreliable when it comes to predicting the outcome of events of multiple particle systems and so it cannot be taken very seriously. Even when dealing with a single or a double electron system the explanations put forward appear more an exercise of the observer attempting to foist his own pet explanations via recording detectors and complex mathematical equations as to why the system behaves the way it does, while, OTOH, a mystic can see the same system in a totally different way as say comprising a fluid concentrate of various pulses of "purposeful" energy, of which his own sentient energy field is a manifestation in the universal mind-matter matrix, that appears to configure the system in a particular way, which, on account of its apparent stability, stays constant or remains unchanging in the absence of the emergence in the system of the deeper causal mechanisms that could be more fundamental than the quantum laws or due to the absence of an infusion of a dose of directed energy into the concerned system that comes about via the conscious will of a person from his own fund of sentient energies that can possibly alter the expected outcome.

2) Besides, in view of the above and on account of other explanations that subsequently follow in this missive, it does appear that there exist(s) a layer, or several of them, that is/are more fundamental to existence than even the quantum level. These infra-QM layers could be the planes or the realms where intelligent principles inherent in energy fields gradually emerge as a set of differing frequencies in manifest form from a state of involution by a series of interactions among the energy waves of the system acting at these subtle levels.

3) At higher levels of material organization like say in the animal neural networks, the inherent intelligent principles in the pulsating energy fields get even more self-expressed and become self-aware in higher entities like humans whose brains/ nervous systems are complex enough to exhibit the higher degrees of the emergent consciousness imbued with intelligent properties.

4) Supported by a growing body of logical/empirical evidence, it would not be out of context to say that a powerful mind can manipulate bodily processes, like, say, in the case of self-healing of morbid psychological, emotional or bodily conditions or suspending the functioning of the heart or brain or respiration at will, or the case of distance healing or being able to influence events at a distance if the power of concentration is potent enough or the case of remote viewing that intel agencies have sufficient evidence of or the medically confirmed experiences that accrue during OBEs and NDEs which provide those human subjects with nonlocal or premonitory or omnijective experiences of the subject merging with the object kind with these OBE/NDE experiences constituting phenomena of altered states of existence with the indwelling sentient energy field in the brain outgrowing its limitations while at the same time the gross body machinery enters a state of catalepsy or corroborated cases of reincarnation or the case of premonitory dreams that fulfill themselves in amazing detail at a later date among other uncanny happenings that standard physico-chemical models fail to explain. All of this points towards the nonlocality of smart energy radiating from the brain, eyes, heart and other bodily parts like say the finger tips as verified by researchers at HeartMath and at other institutions and conversely being acted upon by sentient energy fields radiating from other human bodies clearly indicate that the brain, and possibly the heart, aside from being the bodily instruments that house the indwelling emergent human consciousness as explained above also serve as a receiving station for incoming sentient energies.

B)

5) Science is at a complete loss to explain/execute these - origin of life, failure to synthesis life from scratch, inability to revive a dead organism, inability to explain intent and qualia as seen in the case of Anna baking a pie which the scientist can chemically analyse but cannot say why she baked it or how the pie tasted to the persons she served it. Other failures of science pertain to dubious theories put forward to explain the fine tuning of the universe at the macro/micro levels - this question of fine tuning is another great puzzle that cannot be solved using illogical and unobserved and unverified multiverse models and even if true that our universe is one out of the several hundreds of billions of universes of different spatio-temporal dimensions that manifest from the so-called vacuum state with somehow the fine tuning falling in place in just our universe due to all the essential physical constants being bunched neatly together that as a result displays remarkable order and capacity to develop life indicates the law of probability at work but nevertheless such vague models cannot tell us why the fundamental physical constants exist or how they came into existence or how did they get digitilized in such precise ways.

6) Order and precision and intent/purpose at any level of existence or of organization indicate an innate intelligent principle at work in an energy system. This is the only sane conclusion that a thinking individual can draw in the absence of credible scientific explanations that fail to account for the origin of the universe(s), fine tuning, phenomenon of life, origin of life and sentient phenomena like premonitory drams coming true, verified cases of reincarnation, remote viewing, heightened insights gained into the workings of the mind-matter matrix during OBE/NDE, telepathy and others that defy the laws of gross matter. Till today, we only know what energy can do not what it is as basic substance. As for how intelligence emerges in energy fields, none can say why this is so.

Poor Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Insect Trust wrote:

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Abraham lived in Ur but wasn't from there. Mesopotamian cities had sections inhabited by various outside ethnic groups who were there mostly for trade. Abraham's group at that point could be considered Hebrew or perhaps still Canaanite, but the two ethnicities derived from the same ancestors, who were “proto-Canaanites”. The Hebrews, thererfore, were from the Levant. They had lived in the Levant, which includes the territory of modern Israel, for a very long time. Likely they had been involved in the creation of the Neolithic some 12,000 years ago.
One DNA analysis of the “Palestinians” showed them to be largely of Bedouin origin, which means they came from Arabia.

Canaanites were Hamites, Jews Semites. And totally agree Palestinians are of Arabian origin, Jews of the levant were in fact from the land of Israel.

JOEL wrote:

B)
5) Science is at a complete loss to explain/execute these - inability to revive a dead organism,.

I, for one, am cool with that.

Frijoles wrote:

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I, for one, am cool with that.

That's because everything about you is very superficial.

DIRECT EXPERIENCES WITH THE LIFE FORCE

1) In my exposure to supraphysical experiences in the past, I have come into direct contact with the "animating principle" in the sentient energy field that's figuratively called the life-force.

2) It has a super-quick zig-zag running motion with tremors as it pulsates through the nerves and body cells.

3) Once, during such a preliminary experience with this animating frequency of energy, I observed that whatever I touched or simply stared at became "animated" - cooked rice grains became animated, lentil soup became animated, a fallen leaf became animated and so on. On holding a dried red chilly, a blue spark was given out and the phenomenon being nonlocal in nature drained away quite a bit of the animated energy from my fingers and wrist leaving them limp and painful for at least half an hour or so after which they gradually revived as the drained out energy was restored from infusions of the same grade of energy coming into the affected parts from the rest of the body and from the air. In addition, I could perceive the animating current moving in a closed loop pattern at lightning speed as it moved out of the body through the right thumb and re-entered the body through the right index finger. Any attempt to press together both these fingers created an unbalanced pressure leading to erratic palpitation, uneven breathing and dizziness in the head and so the thumb and index fingers should be kept free of contact with each other as far as possible for best results.

4) So, to synthesize life from scratch or to revive a dead organism would require the emergence in the system of this special grade of energy with its unique characteristics. as described above.

5) In particular, what I noted during those heightened experiences with the animating energy is that the body's energy field (pertaining to this particular animating aspect that works at a specific frequency of vibration) opens out and directly connects with the universal energy field of the same grade and frequency of vibration thereby giving rise to an influx into the body of those particular animating impulses from the universal field that have the capacity to animate or to enliven a system.

6) The color of this animating grade of energy is shiny blue and it has a high electrical-kind of charge to it that when in motion is heard inwardly as the sound created by a whizzing rocket travelling at a very very high speed. It simply "electrifies" the body in a novel manner leaving one shaking when one comes into direct contact with it even to a slight degree. The sound has a somewhat metallic feel to it and creates tremors and shocks as it vibrates/moves.

JOEL wrote:

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That's because everything about you is very superficial.

from the guy who has spent YEARS engaged in mastubatory soliloquy

JOEL wrote:

DIRECT EXPERIENCES WITH THE LIFE FORCE
1) In my exposure to supraphysical experiences in the past, I have come into direct contact with the "animating principle" in the sentient energy field that's figuratively called the life-force.
2) It has a super-quick zig-zag running motion with tremors as it pulsates through the nerves and body cells.
3) Once, during such a preliminary experience with this animating frequency of energy, I observed that whatever I touched or simply stared at became "animated" - cooked rice grains became animated, lentil soup became animated, a fallen leaf became animated and so on. On holding a dried red chilly, a blue spark was given out and the phenomenon being nonlocal in nature drained away quite a bit of the animated energy from my fingers and wrist leaving them limp and painful for at least half an hour or so after which they gradually revived as the drained out energy was restored from infusions of the same grade of energy coming into the affected parts from the rest of the body and from the air. In addition, I could perceive the animating current moving in a closed loop pattern at lightning speed as it moved out of the body through the right thumb and re-entered the body through the right index finger. Any attempt to press together both these fingers created an unbalanced pressure leading to erratic palpitation, uneven breathing and dizziness in the head and so the thumb and index fingers should be kept free of contact with each other as far as possible for best results.
4) So, to synthesize life from scratch or to revive a dead organism would require the emergence in the system of this special grade of energy with its unique characteristics. as described above.
5) In particular, what I noted during those heightened experiences with the animating energy is that the body's energy field (pertaining to this particular animating aspect that works at a specific frequency of vibration) opens out and directly connects with the universal energy field of the same grade and frequency of vibration thereby giving rise to an influx into the body of those particular animating impulses from the universal field that have the capacity to animate or to enliven a system.
6) The color of this animating grade of energy is shiny blue and it has a high electrical-kind of charge to it that when in motion is heard inwardly as the sound created by a whizzing rocket travelling at a very very high speed. It simply "electrifies" the body in a novel manner leaving one shaking when one comes into direct contact with it even to a slight degree. The sound has a somewhat metallic feel to it and creates tremors and shocks as it vibrates/moves.

Was this a mushroom experience? No one reads the whole text but it sounds like you are a tripper?