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former res

Cheshire, CT

#72506 Apr 28, 2014
oneworld wrote:
<quoted text>
What ended up in the[(mythical bc translation) or equally mythical 3rd c. CE rendition ] final version is multiple interpretations, corrections, chapters ending at the wrong place and hundred-thousands of mistakes.
So a pre-chewed interpretation. Books were only written for nobility.
The whole only appeared at a very late date. Before that time we only find part translations.
And it is reasonable and ever more likely that early versions are actually bound versions of various centuries.
The most Obvious is of course the ' one-god ' introduction and the interpretations allready provided.(getting it immensely wrong, which is strange*)
The essense of the hebrew version is that many interpretations are possible, the more found the more kudos.
*So let's say they find 26 reasonable interpretations, nevertheless the christians will come up with the odd-bal and can't find the options for the others in their variant version.
Apropos tax: those that not paid it were called atheists.
So jews were not atheists.
Christians were.
What was the source of the material/the text in the original Hebrew version of the bible? That is, the one without the mistakes?
oneworld

Den Helder, Netherlands

#72507 Apr 28, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
What was the source of the material/the text in the original Hebrew version of the bible? That is, the one without the mistakes?
That's way above your pay-grade.

I usually state it's the recollection of material throughout IsraŽls and Judahs history.
So reflecting relations and believes of others in the territory as well.
Together forming a guide through the history.

Experience and do's and don't s for the territory.
If we read that all (including the coastal towns, egypt ,aram and arabs') but not Edom(later nabbatea) fought against assyria, We can understand antagonism in a later era.
That we see plenty of treaties, so you could also call the H.B. a log-book of Canaanite people.

And i'm a bit wary of the socalled sources-theory priestly, Elohist etc.
Western eyes and philosophy in action.
Just as greeks and romans were the new-comers in general and strangers looking on and interpreting events through their xeno-phobia and fear.
Mind these two groups were also new in Greece and Italy.(DNA allover the place)

So instead of being the cradle of civilisation, they are rather the myth producing barbarians.
Myth as instrument of correction (keep your women in the home lest they become like the amazons) and explanations of this strange new territory.
I would put christianity in the same category.
oneworld

Den Helder, Netherlands

#72508 Apr 28, 2014
xeno-phobia fear of any and everything foreign.

And fear in general evoked by being aware of being invaders and not having any history whatsoever that could match f.i. Egypt, mesopotamia and Canaan.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#72509 Apr 28, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
This is the flip side of what I already addressed. Recall the associative and commutative principles from math class?
It seems you're the one making a lot of assumptions about what my assumptions are.(We could go on all day like this...)
The only god I'm aware of that you reject (and I wouldn't call this an assumption as you've stated this), is the anthropomorphic old man up in the sky.
Not sure what else you could be referring to.
I admit you are not the core audience for the "disbelieve" saying. But since we got on the topic...

I profess ignorance on the math principles. My geometry teacher was a stoner, and the only math I ever excelled in was AP Calculus.
former res wrote:
<quoted text><quoted text>
Ok, we'll just leave it as you don't accept the label theist.
The rest is a little too much in the weeds for me.
Although I defer to your recusal, those weeds ARE important, and each point I previously spent quite a bit of time getting into. They are at the heart of why I do not believe theistic belief is at the center of the beliefs that are relevant.

(managed to work belief into that sentence 3 times! pretty good...)

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#72510 Apr 28, 2014
former res wrote:
If the above is not a match made in heaven....I don't know what is....
;)
I only get a certain part of that either. Not having topic sentences or conclusions makes it difficult to follow.
oneworld

Den Helder, Netherlands

#72511 Apr 28, 2014
I noticed Sea is back as well, writing as 'amused' in one of the threads.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#72512 Apr 28, 2014
oneworld wrote:
<quoted text>
That's way above your pay-grade.
Something is certainly getting deep in here!

:))
oneworld wrote:
<quoted text>
I usually state it's the recollection of material throughout IsraŽls and Judahs history.
So reflecting relations and believes of others in the territory as well.
Together forming a guide through the history.
Experience and do's and don't s for the territory.
If we read that all (including the coastal towns, egypt ,aram and arabs') but not Edom(later nabbatea) fought against assyria, We can understand antagonism in a later era.
That we see plenty of treaties, so you could also call the H.B. a log-book of Canaanite people.
And i'm a bit wary of the socalled sources-theory priestly, Elohist etc.
Western eyes and philosophy in action.
Just as greeks and romans were the new-comers in general and strangers looking on and interpreting events through their xeno-phobia and fear.
Mind these two groups were also new in Greece and Italy.(DNA allover the place)
So instead of being the cradle of civilisation, they are rather the myth producing barbarians.
Myth as instrument of correction (keep your women in the home lest they become like the amazons) and explanations of this strange new territory.
I would put christianity in the same category.
So you believe the text is more of historic significance and not
the words of god as taken down by scribes?
former res

Cheshire, CT

#72513 Apr 28, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I admit you are not the core audience for the "disbelieve" saying. But since we got on the topic...
I profess ignorance on the math principles. My geometry teacher was a stoner, and the only math I ever excelled in was AP Calculus.
<quoted text>
Although I defer to your recusal, those weeds ARE important, and each point I previously spent quite a bit of time getting into. They are at the heart of why I do not believe theistic belief is at the center of the beliefs that are relevant.
(managed to work belief into that sentence 3 times! pretty good...)
Here's a good run-down of the math principles.

Not too many words, I promise!

http://www.mathsisfun.com/associative-commuta...
former res

Cheshire, CT

#72514 Apr 28, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I only get a certain part of that either. Not having topic sentences or conclusions makes it difficult to follow.
Good. I thought it was just me.

I have Dutch cousin who is much easier to follow.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#72515 Apr 28, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's a good run-down of the math principles.
Not too many words, I promise!
http://www.mathsisfun.com/associative-commuta...
yep I remember it now....lol

algebra...

Did you ever have to do those stupid proofs for geometry?

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#72516 Apr 28, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
yep I remember it now....lol
algebra...
Did you ever have to do those stupid proofs for geometry?
Stupid? Am I in the minority? I actually enjoyed them.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#72517 Apr 28, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Stupid? Am I in the minority? I actually enjoyed them.
Won't comment on that.
oneworld

Den Helder, Netherlands

#72518 Apr 28, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Something is certainly getting deep in here!
:))
<quoted text>
So you believe the text is more of historic significance and not
the words of god as taken down by scribes?
Christian= atheist according to the old definition (I take it Frioles reads along), saves a long discussion.

God is defined as life, land and people and a Mutual contract between all parties involved.
Land also: Since Isaiah fi. uses Israel as metaphore and at one point also wife of gd.
Elohim also means judges as well as elders and children of El.
And a phychology that goes from infancy as a symbiotic bond, through adolescent schizoid phases, towards ordinary neurotic to then take the shape of an integrated welrounded being.

We find the religion and history are intermingled.(mono' thus, and gd being all forms)
And unique in a gd sharing the same experiences with all.

Ritual as reliving main events of significance.

Part of the writing is seen as Law instead of gd thus divine in origin.
Which provides authority and when some laws are not understood this is to be interpreted as god as rahmaan-mercy and ultimate justice, who is the only one knowing all aspects of a case, where people might fail.
I at least learn from that to give mercy.
It is the part were principles of law are forwarded.( Eric excels in explaining this.)

For the more esotherical i revert to Frijoles.

But to take at face-value all that scribes wrote down...no.
Doubt and discussion are normal.
Not mindless iteration.

oneworld

Den Helder, Netherlands

#72519 Apr 28, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Good. I thought it was just me.
I have Dutch cousin who is much easier to follow.
You of highest luck, to have Dutch cousin of the easy brain jogging first.

Telegram style.
I see these responses as quickies.(Next time i just use yes and no. Did you by any form of imagination think that a requested exposee on ' the OT' could be dealt with in a few clear sentences?)

My mind is on fideism and nihilism and how to crack Eusebius'authority.*
Since for some reason ' no extant writing 'does not work to remove the fiction apologetics uphold.
And Former, given your upbringing, even atheistic still a yard-stick to measure others by.
As is obvious from using OT for HB, though they are clearly not the same.
---
* I discovered Armenia and it's invented past is a usefull sinkhole, that makes tracking historicity and sources impossible.
---
My conclusion is that god is not important:
If millions of people- an entire political system, countless citizens believing in god - say they are going to kill you, you better listen.

Experience and Law as well as having land and people behind me ,is.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#72520 Apr 28, 2014
Oneworld-order to Former----I see these responses as QUICKIES.

HughBe---- exciting.


Oneworld-order to Former---And Former, given your upbringing, even atheistic still a yard-stick to measure others by.
As is obvious from using OT for HB, though they are clearly not the same.

HughBe---- Indeed the yardSTICK is not the same but the measurement/YARD is.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#72521 Apr 28, 2014
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>So, now you are a racist. These kids are not Asians settled in the US. They are Americans born here. They are Americans educated in American schools. How long do their families have to live here before you remove the stigma and they become just Americans?
Joel----Ok, if you insist on citizenship and not on ethnic background as a criterion.
What I meant is that every year Asians settled in the US represent the US at the IMO, IPhO, IChO etc, whereas Whites are nowhere in the picture.

Eric---So, now you are a racist. These kids are not Asians settled in the US. They are Americans born here. They are Americans educated in American schools. How long do their families have to live here before you remove the stigma and they become just Americans?

Hugh---- Greetings to both of you. Now Eric please help me to understand the discussion by responding to the following---

1. What are you calling stigma?
2. Tell me how long must the families live there to be called "just Americans?
3. Do you call yourself American or you use the stigma of Jewish American?
4. Have you ever used the word African American of this forum? If so why the stigma?
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#72522 Apr 28, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
I bet Apu and Huggy have both had a bad wiener or two in their lives.
And some with cheese!
:))
No dear, I do NOT take that thing.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#72523 Apr 28, 2014
Hughbe who?
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#72524 Apr 28, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Who remembers age 4 anyhow?
Certainly not someone of your age. look to persons of Joel's age and you shall find many such persons.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#72525 Apr 28, 2014
JOEL COOL DUDE wrote:
HUGH,
Come out, please.
Don't hide behind wifey's skimpy skirt.
She's got sexy legs, huh.
LOL.
Pretty face yes. Sexy legs no.

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