Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 72025 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

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“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66868 Feb 5, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL. I guess everyone has a tipping point. Her's was dinosaurs.
Speaking of tipping - how is shoveling going? We got about 2 feet of snow between both storms, and with the moisture it weighs about 1000 lbs.

I think somewhere out there, there are going to be roof collapses.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66869 Feb 5, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Panentheist - the difference is that I do allow a minor amount of theism to seep in - an acknowledgment to the practicality of language.
Panentheism (from Greek &#960;&#8118;&#957 ; (pân) "all"; &#7952;&#957; (en) "in"; and &#952;&#949;&#972; &#962; (theós) "God"; "all-in-God") is a belief system which posits that the divine (be it a monotheistic God, polytheistic gods, or an eternal cosmic animating force[1]) interpenetrates every part of nature and timelessly extends beyond it. Panentheism differentiates itself from pantheism, which holds that the divine is synonymous with the universe.[2]

Sounds like god is everything and everywhere. Either version.

God "interpenetrates every part of nature."

But what god? who is god? What is the nature of god? Why believe in this and not just enjoy nature and life? it's what we know. Anything else is pure imagination. The elephant I can't see and choose not to speculate about
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Duality - God and world separate
NonDuality - no separation
Again, god IS the world. Ok.

See above.
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
philosophy - because Zen, a type of Bhuddism, is nontheistic, therefore it is not a religion.
However, it is my opinion,(but certainly subject to debate and argument) that the nontheistic endpoints of some of the Eastern philosophies are really the same as some religious nondual systems such as Kaballah and Hasidism - the concepts are similar but the labels are different.
Probably because they all arise out of man's need and desire to explain all of this.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66870 Feb 5, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Speaking of tipping - how is shoveling going? We got about 2 feet of snow between both storms, and with the moisture it weighs about 1000 lbs.
I think somewhere out there, there are going to be roof collapses.
We had around 10 inches of new snow. It only started up here around 4:00 a.m. and came down 2-3 inches/hr. Built up really fast. Gives us around total or 14-15 inches on the ground.

Already did the snow blowing/shoveling/salting. The last one is really important as it's all icing up now.

taking the RAV out later. fun to drive around in the snow!
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66871 Feb 5, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course not. At least not the adults. But I think Nye was trying to reach the fence sitters - if any exist, or the younger generation. And this is where he played to his strengths, by making science sound exciting.
They showed a clip of the debate on CNN just now.

The science guy said "you sound like you consider part the bible to be literal and other parts to be poetry." good stuff - I should watcht the whole thing thought I've seen several youtubes of Christpher (Don't call me Chris! RIP) Hitchens, Dawkins etc in debates with other bible thumpers

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66872 Feb 5, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Panentheism (from Greek &#960;&#8118;&#957 ; (pân) "all"; &#7952;&#957; (en) "in"; and &#952;&#949;&#972; &#962; (theós) "God"; "all-in-God") is a belief system which posits that the divine (be it a monotheistic God, polytheistic gods, or an eternal cosmic animating force[1]) interpenetrates every part of nature and timelessly extends beyond it. Panentheism differentiates itself from pantheism, which holds that the divine is synonymous with the universe.[2]
Sounds like god is everything and everywhere. Either version.
God "interpenetrates every part of nature."t.
They are very similar, but the real difference is that in Pantheism: God = nature(or reality).

In Panentheism, God = nature, and with a "force" behind it. Hence the slight injection of theism. Its my bias as a Jew. Some say they ARE the same.

But the idea is that creation IS revelation. We are basically emanations of the "divine" flow. The divine part is often hidden during ordinary day to day consciousness. Our job (or rather my job, as a Jew) is to seek out that and recognize that divine in my everyday as often as possible. The mitzvot, prayer, and study are technologies to enable me recognize the divine in the moment. Practice makes perfect.
former res wrote:
<quoted text>But what god? who is god? What is the nature of god? Why believe in this and not just enjoy nature and life? it's what we know. Anything else is pure imagination. The elephant I can't see and choose not to speculate about.
Because obviously there is a belief that ones quality of life is better WITH an awareness, then without. Maybe not for everyone, maybe not for you. Maybe you are already enlightened, and everyone else is not (yet). I think either one has a yearning to explore whats out there, or not. Its the same yearning that motivates people into science IMO. But the subject matter is more squishy.

I keep bringing the martial arts up, because, to me, it was part of my own motivation to understand what is out there. I was blown away the first time I received acupuncture (Traditional Chinese Medicine - same paradigm as martial arts). Transfer of energy (chi) was and is to me REAL. I could feel it. Made me wonder what else was out there to learn about. So I explored.(Dont even get me into the subject of talking to trees). Like religion, its not the theory that amazes me, its the experiences. The theory comes later once the brain catches up.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66873 Feb 5, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
They showed a clip of the debate on CNN just now.
The science guy said "you sound like you consider part the bible to be literal and other parts to be poetry." good stuff - I should watcht the whole thing thought I've seen several youtubes of Christpher (Don't call me Chris! RIP) Hitchens, Dawkins etc in debates with other bible thumpers
\

Reading second hand, my best part was when someone from the audience asked what would it take to convince you of the other view

Science Guy: additional evidence, if verifiable, would lead me to change my position

Creationist; Nothing.(by definition). I will never change my view.

((Needless to say - anyone with more than 2 neurons would have to take notice))

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#66874 Feb 5, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
Speaking of tipping - how is shoveling going? We got about 2 feet of snow between both storms, and with the moisture it weighs about 1000 lbs.
I think somewhere out there, there are going to be roof collapses.
Yes, very heavy. I just carved out a small path to the street for when I walk the dog. Other than that, I'm not even trying. I have a small snow blower, but it's worthless with this type of snow.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#66875 Feb 5, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>\
Reading second hand, my best part was when someone from the audience asked what would it take to convince you of the other view
Science Guy: additional evidence, if verifiable, would lead me to change my position
Creationist; Nothing.(by definition). I will never change my view.
((Needless to say - anyone with more than 2 neurons would have to take notice))
Going into the debate, I was worried that Bill Nye would come off looking foolish or arrogant since the venue belonged to Ken Ham and he controlled a lot of the variables. But I was pleasantly surprised by Nye's performance. He is a very good speaker.

One tactic that Ham is famous for is to criticize science as being "historical" when evaluating things of the past, and smugly following up with - "Were you there? Then you can't know." This, in an attempt to make science no more valuable than mere speculation. He did this several times during the debate.

When asked for evidence for his assertion regarding the age of the earth, he would hold up the bible like a typical bible thumper. That's the extent of his evidence.

When asked for what predictive aspects of nature can he derive from the bible, he would ignore the question.

He also gave a lot of misinformation about the accuracy of radioactive dating, not that his followers have a chance in hell of understanding anything about it.

In the end, Ken Ham made an utter fool of himself - not that it'll be obvious to him or his followers.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#66876 Feb 5, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, very heavy. I just carved out a small path to the street for when I walk the dog. Other than that, I'm not even trying. I have a small snow blower, but it's worthless with this type of snow.
Makes me glad I didnt buy a snow blower.

I shoveled my deck and a small path for my dog. In years past, I have shoveled quite the netword, but not this time. City just left a 2+ foot high hardened bank in front of my driveway. Joy.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#66877 Feb 5, 2014
Rick Moss wrote:
<quoted text>
No one hates Jeebus, he's mythical. You can't hate a mythical character (unless they cast Ben Affleck to play him in the Superman movie). What Jews do hate is the fact that every few decades a bunch of his followers (lookin' right at ya) will kill us in wholesale lots in his name.
RM---What Jews do hate is the fact that every few decades a bunch of his followers (lookin' right at ya) will kill us in wholesale lots in his name.

HughBe--- My boy, for me to do the EVIL that came out of your HEART and MIND and expressed above means that I would have to posses a mind like your rabbis and I don't and this should be obvious even to someone at your level of intelligence and who is suffering from a dearth of honesty. Also I agree that your Jeebus was mythical but my Jesus was not. Understand this boy, YOU and your masters shall BOW down before my Jesus.

Why have you avoided explaining the scriptures? Instead you resort to your DEMONIC training of LIES and SLANDER, you CORRUPT creature.

Finally boy, do Christian JEWS kill US as well?
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#66878 Feb 5, 2014
HughBe---Why do you HATE Jesus, the Jew, so much? Is it because of JEALOUSY or is it because your god-men/rabbis teach you to HATE Him or is it both?

Frijoles---Ironic statement coming from the man who probably least embodies Christian values here.Even the atheists here behave more "Christianly" than you do.

HughBe--- Your typically FOOLISH utterance has been filed in #13.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#66879 Feb 5, 2014
Rick M----No one hates Jeebus, he's mythical.

HughBe--- Both are LIES and I asked YOU about YOUR hate for Jesus. I personally don't think that Frijoles or Eric HATES my Jesus but I believe that YOU do and so WHY?

Now back to where it all started and please ANSWER this time, genius.

HughBe to Frijoles---Given your penchant for LIES and DECEIT I would never correspond with you but the LOVE of MY Jesus, the Messiah, in my heart makes me forgive you and talk with you.

Rick Moss---Just another example of of Jeebus screwing over the Jews again.

HughBe--- Now I said that your man or Frijoles has a "penchant for LIES and DECEIT".

I want you to PROVE me wrong and cite post # and quote my words that SUPPORTS his EVIL i.e. "You(HughBe) stated that reward and punishment was a DOMINANT theology of Judaism (not of the Bible, but of Jews like me) and used Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur as examples."

Please at least feign intelligence and make an attempt at answering appropriately.

Also how does LOVE in my HEART that leads me to FORGIVE him of his PROVEN LIES against me an "example of of Jeebus screwing over the Jews again. "? Explain, chief criminal.

Finally, I look forward to the day when the Jewish people rise up against criminals like YOU and charge you with crimes against humanity meaning the Jewish people. You and your kind have misled them, LIED to them and ENSLAVED them etc. Their biggest ENEMIES are people like YOU who are WOLVES among the sheep.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#66880 Feb 5, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Did I really describe that or is it simply wishful thinking on your part?
Is your mouth watering?
Former---I hope you know I only want to be friends with you.

HughBe--- Yes but I do not want the intimate friendship that you describe as mouth-watering.

Former----Did I really describe that or is it simply wishful thinking on your part?

HughBe--- YES you did, in a vision that I had.

Former----Is your mouth watering?

HughBe--- Yes for KFC. I am not into the licking of fingers as I have an aversion to germs and so I do not go into public restrooms to wash hands and then eat.

Since: Nov 13

Denver, CO

#66881 Feb 5, 2014
Rick Moss wrote:
<quoted text>
No one hates Jeebus, he's mythical. You can't hate a mythical character (unless they cast Ben Affleck to play him in the Superman movie). What Jews do hate is the fact that every few decades a bunch of his followers (lookin' right at ya) will kill us in wholesale lots in his name.
rabbee: and just why do you suppose, G-D commands that to happen? with both sides blinding themselves, from realizing this. i mean look at how agreeable, G-D is. when you wish to be insane, G-D sends you even more insanity than you can handle. and when you wish to be true, G-D sends to you more than you can truly handle. and perchance you are actually good, then G-D sends to you more goodness beyond your belief.

do you really think, G-D sends goodness to the jews for being really really horribly bad? the more you screw up, the more trouble G-D sends your way. is this not what it says in scripture, that you still do not believe? the more you trouble G-D, all the more reason for G-D to trouble you.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66882 Feb 5, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Makes me glad I didnt buy a snow blower.
I shoveled my deck and a small path for my dog. In years past, I have shoveled quite the netword, but not this time. City just left a 2+ foot high hardened bank in front of my driveway. Joy.
But don't you have to shovel out your driveway?

I have a very small Honda and it took care of the 10 inches this morning ok.
Saved a helluva lot of shoveling heavy snow. I wouldn't want to be without it. Though obviously I'd survive. Hondas aren't cheap but this one's 14 years and still working very well. Starts on first pull just like Honda lawn mowers (and my old Honda 360 motorcycle fron high schoo)- though curiously I only drive Toyota cars.

Very heavy, wet snow can clog it but we're a few degrees cooler up here so it was still fairly dry - though not exactly powdery.(are we still talking about snow?:))
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66883 Feb 5, 2014
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Former---I hope you know I only want to be friends with you.
HughBe--- Yes but I do not want the intimate friendship that you describe as mouth-watering.
Former----Did I really describe that or is it simply wishful thinking on your part?
HughBe--- YES you did, in a vision that I had.
See? Your vision. Just as I thought.

I feel so violated and cheap, even dirty now.

Would you at least buy me breakfast?(Not KFC.)
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Former----Is your mouth watering?
HughBe--- Yes for KFC. I am not into the licking of fingers as I have an aversion to germs and so I do not go into public restrooms to wash hands and then eat.
Wow, you have KFC there? We don't even have it anywhere near where I live.
Do you get Extra Crispy?

Does your aversion to germs limit your intimate activities?

It seems that it could.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66884 Feb 5, 2014
I just returned from a quick drive around the 'hood.

Saw a young lady at the bottom of a fairly long, steep driveway.

Her car was running with headlights on at the top.

She had just begun to shovel the 10 inches of snow we just got.

I was thinking how much gas the car would burn before she would be able to drive down the driveway.

She had at a bare minimum an hour of shoveling ahead of her.

Good exercise though.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#66885 Feb 5, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
But don't you have to shovel out your driveway?
I have a very small Honda and it took care of the 10 inches this morning ok.
Saved a helluva lot of shoveling heavy snow. I wouldn't want to be without it. Though obviously I'd survive. Hondas aren't cheap but this one's 14 years and still working very well. Starts on first pull just like Honda lawn mowers (and my old Honda 360 motorcycle fron high schoo)- though curiously I only drive Toyota cars.
Very heavy, wet snow can clog it but we're a few degrees cooler up here so it was still fairly dry - though not exactly powdery.(are we still talking about snow?:))
Nope. It's pretty slushy hear.

And like Frijoles, I now have a 3-foot mound of snow in front of my driveway to deal with, courtesy the city plows.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#66886 Feb 5, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
.....But the idea is that creation IS revelation. We are basically emanations of the "divine" flow. The divine part is often hidden during ordinary day to day consciousness. Our job (or rather my job, as a Jew) is to seek out that and recognize that divine in my everyday as often as possible. The mitzvot, prayer, and study are technologies to enable me recognize the divine in the moment. Practice makes perfect.
Not necessarily.

We had a training specialist where I used to work who taught that "Practice makes permanent."

Only perfect if what you're doing is right and your are doing it perfectly.

For most folks though it just makes permanent what they are doing.
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I keep bringing the martial arts up, because, to me, it was part of my own motivation to understand what is out there. I was blown away the first time I received acupuncture (Traditional Chinese Medicine - same paradigm as martial arts). Transfer of energy (chi) was and is to me REAL. I could feel it. Made me wonder what else was out there to learn about. So I explored.(Dont even get me into the subject of talking to trees). Like religion, its not the theory that amazes me, its the experiences. The theory comes later once the brain catches up.
Never tried a chiropractor or acupuncture but would like to try both.

And I never talked to trees but have hugged them before... Giant redwoods at Muir Woods.

Any related experience is of course (and by definition) subjective. And some folks are more suggestible than others.

How about people who actually believe they have spoken to the dead or swear by astrology or swear they see Jesus in their toast.

Don't you think they believe just as sincerely as say, pantheists?

Since: Nov 13

Denver, CO

#66887 Feb 5, 2014
former res wrote:
I just returned from a quick drive around the 'hood.
Saw a young lady at the bottom of a fairly long, steep driveway.
Her car was running with headlights on at the top.
She had just begun to shovel the 10 inches of snow we just got.
I was thinking how much gas the car would burn before she would be able to drive down the driveway.
She had at a bare minimum an hour of shoveling ahead of her.
Good exercise though.
rabbee: and you passed up another chance, to perform a great meetzvah? you are no, white knight in shining armor?

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