Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 72025 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#66117 Jan 18, 2014
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
If you are good enough (REALLY good!) with a bow, it is much harder for anyone to know that you are hunting - unless they catch you with a deer over your shoulders as you head back to the truck. No shots to hear.
:)
and if you are not so good, your buck will running terrified through the neighborhood with an arrow sticking out through its hind, followed by lots of horrified and screaming neighbors....

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#66118 Jan 18, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Much like the religion I grew up with - made up of "scripture and tradition." Though much of the tradition may be binding as well. Various notions around the pope are clearly not in the bible. And so on.
So most pick and choose what to follow.
Yep. Perhaps you can tell me why the pope wears a yarmulke. In Jewish tradition, this is not a commandment, only a custom, though a custom adopted by 100% of observant Jews.

Since: Aug 11

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#66119 Jan 18, 2014
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
My understanding is that "we" Christians are waiting for the 2nd coming while my Jewish friends are still waiting for the first.
The Jewish messiah was someone who would liberate the Jews from the Roman Occupation. Since the Roman Empire no longer exists, is it right to say that they are still waiting for one? Perhaps Frijoles can clarify.

BTW - at the beginning of the first century, many people claimed to be the messiah. Most of them were crucified for the crime of sedition, Jesus included.

Since: Aug 11

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#66120 Jan 18, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Yep. Perhaps you can tell me why the pope wears a yarmulke. In Jewish tradition, this is not a commandment, only a custom, though a custom adopted by 100% of observant Jews.
To hide his bald spot?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#66121 Jan 18, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>

BTW - at the beginning of the first century, many people claimed to be the messiah. Most of them were crucified for the crime of sedition, Jesus included.
There are many people here in Topix that claim to be the Messiah.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#66122 Jan 18, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
The Jewish messiah was someone who would liberate the Jews from the Roman Occupation. Since the Roman Empire no longer exists, is it right to say that they are still waiting for one? Perhaps Frijoles can clarify.
BTW - at the beginning of the first century, many people claimed to be the messiah. Most of them were crucified for the crime of sedition, Jesus included.
Waiting for the messiah is a common part of Jewish theology. What makes it distinct from the Christian concept is that the messiah does not cause redemption of the world, rather the messiah is part of the whole process (i.e. the process starts on its own and THEN the messiah shows up).

And there are some that believe that return to Israel will usher in the Messiah.

There are strands of Hasidic thought (from 400 years ago) which further refined the concept to suggest that on a deeper level, the messiah is not even a human but a symbol for a psychological shift in perception.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#66123 Jan 18, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
To hide his bald spot?
Its not so easy to wear one of those things on a bald spot. I think they sell special glue for that.

Since: May 12

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#66124 Jan 18, 2014
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
The Jewish messiah was someone who would liberate the Jews from the Roman Occupation. Since the Roman Empire no longer exists, is it right to say that they are still waiting for one? Perhaps Frijoles can clarify.
BTW - at the beginning of the first century, many people claimed to be the messiah. Most of them were crucified for the crime of sedition, Jesus included.
The story of the coming of Messiah started when the Jews were deported to Babylon. They were waiting for the messiah back then but he didn't show up. Then they waited for the Messiah when they were under the roman occupation, but the right messiah didn't show up.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#66125 Jan 18, 2014
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>
The story of the coming of Messiah started when the Jews were deported to Babylon. They were waiting for the messiah back then but he didn't show up. Then they waited for the Messiah when they were under the roman occupation, but the right messiah didn't show up.
There is some confusion in the terminology here.

You are correct that there are certain references in the Prophets ( example - Isaiah) that long for or predict a military savior. Then later Christians confused those references by creating a Christian concept of the "messiah".

But the Jewish concept of a messiah does not derive from the same references that the Christians claim are examples of Jesus. The Jewish conceptions are mainly (but not totally) rooted in the 5 Books of Moses (i,e the Tanach)- using criteria from passages that the Christians routinely neglect or ignore (as we see everyday here with Hughbe).

Since: May 12

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#66126 Jan 18, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
There is some confusion in the terminology here.
You are correct that there are certain references in the Prophets ( example - Isaiah) that long for or predict a military savior. Then later Christians confused those references by creating a Christian concept of the "messiah".
But the Jewish concept of a messiah does not derive from the same references that the Christians claim are examples of Jesus. The Jewish conceptions are mainly (but not totally) rooted in the 5 Books of Moses (i,e the Tanach)- using criteria from passages that the Christians routinely neglect or ignore (as we see everyday here with Hughbe).
Can you give some passages and conceptions about messiah from the 5 books of Moses?

“Act Interdimensional ly”

Since: Jan 08

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#66127 Jan 18, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Its not so easy to wear one of those things on a bald spot. I think they sell special glue for that.
I don't have a bald spot, but I swear by bobby pins

“Act Interdimensional ly”

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#66128 Jan 18, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Waiting for the messiah is a common part of Jewish theology...
Had some pretty lively discussions about his with the religious community. Over-emphasis on messianic prophecy leads to a lot of bad things, in my iopinion. I understand fully that it has been a central tenet of Judaism since pre-Talmudic times and something that has held us together as a people for an equally long time. However,, I'm concerned that over-emphasis on seeking the Messiah (not the concept of a Messiah itself) leads to diversion from world that is to the world that will be, poor selection criteria and cults of personality. There are lots of people out there more than willing to volunteer for the position and a lot of us stupid enough to let them take the job.

IMHO we might want to rethink the undoubtedly appealing but nevertheless potentially distracting business of waiting for the Messiah.(This is of course my own opinion and not that of Jewish Conspiracy Inc, it's holding company or subsidiaries).

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#66129 Jan 18, 2014
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you give some passages and conceptions about messiah from the 5 books of Moses?
http://torahsparks.wordpress.com/2013/08/27/v...

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#66130 Jan 18, 2014
Rick Moss wrote:
<quoted text>
Had some pretty lively discussions about his with the religious community. Over-emphasis on messianic prophecy leads to a lot of bad things, in my iopinion. I understand fully that it has been a central tenet of Judaism since pre-Talmudic times and something that has held us together as a people for an equally long time. However,, I'm concerned that over-emphasis on seeking the Messiah (not the concept of a Messiah itself) leads to diversion from world that is to the world that will be, poor selection criteria and cults of personality. There are lots of people out there more than willing to volunteer for the position and a lot of us stupid enough to let them take the job.
IMHO we might want to rethink the undoubtedly appealing but nevertheless potentially distracting business of waiting for the Messiah.(This is of course my own opinion and not that of Jewish Conspiracy Inc, it's holding company or subsidiaries).
Personally, I dont put much thought or stock into this set of beliefs (messianic theology)- except to say that it is always nice to hope for better times. I tend to follow a (neo) hasidic approach where tikkun olam is realized through a personal process of self growth, and probably actualized on an individual rather than a communal level.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#66131 Jan 18, 2014
Rick Moss wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't have a bald spot, but I swear by bobby pins
I dont have a bald spot, but if I did I would go Bukharan.

“Act Interdimensional ly”

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#66132 Jan 18, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text> I dont have a bald spot, but if I did I would go Bukharan.
Or, one of those great Victorian smoking caps ...

http://thumbs1.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mWHGNv...

“Act Interdimensional ly”

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#66133 Jan 18, 2014
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Personally, I dont put much thought or stock into this set of beliefs (messianic theology)- except to say that it is always nice to hope for better times. I tend to follow a (neo) hasidic approach where tikkun olam is realized through a personal process of self growth, and probably actualized on an individual rather than a communal level.
Yea, I like that and it's probably closer to defining my own personal belief than I previously considered.

That being said, most people don't know that most of the best Superman stories were speculation about how Superman could the the Messiah and how he would both benefit and hinder the human race (Lex Luthor had some very valid points). One of my favourites is "Red Son" -- where Superman lands as a child in Soviet Russia instead of Kansas and goes on to be Stalin's successor and spreading the Communist way of life. Eventually he is defeated by the Lex Luthor (who is the US President) and then Luthor leads the world to a global renaissance which -- spoiler alert -- ends up in the far future being Krypton and the whole cycle begins again.

But, I have been painting models all morning and I might be high as a glue-sniffing cat.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#66134 Jan 18, 2014
Rick Moss wrote:
<quoted text>

That being said, most people don't know that most of the best Superman stories were speculation about how Superman could the the Messiah and how he would both benefit and hinder the human race (Lex Luthor had some very valid points). One of my favourites is "Red Son" -- where Superman lands as a child in Soviet Russia instead of Kansas and goes on to be Stalin's successor and spreading the Communist way of life. Eventually he is defeated by the Lex Luthor (who is the US President) and then Luthor leads the world to a global renaissance which -- spoiler alert -- ends up in the far future being Krypton and the whole cycle begins again.
But, I have been painting models all morning and I might be high as a glue-sniffing cat.
Sounds a bit like HaTorah from the Rebbe from Colorado

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

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#66135 Jan 18, 2014
Rick Moss wrote:
<quoted text>
Yea, I like that and it's probably closer to defining my own personal belief than I previously considered.
.
On a similar vein, try this:

http://www.amazon.com/Hasidic-Spirituality-Ne...

Great explanation of the sparks, and an interesting perspective on Hasidism circa pre-wwII.

JOEL COOL DUDE

Since: Jan 14

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#66136 Jan 18, 2014
Messiah? Waiting for a Messiah is another obsolete idea promoted by religious charlatans who're clueless about the nature of the reality. This so-called Messiah will never show up and even if does he'll either be executed, jailed or hospitalized in a mental asylum. Imagine a messiah from a lineage of a mass murdering pervert like David coming to the rescue of a particular community or of the world in general. Even in the past when these so-called prophets were around all that they did was kill, maim, abuse, coerce and threaten. Not a single truly profound teaching based on the higher consciousness has come from these prophets and patriarchs and this is why every value or every insight they provided has been debunked and the world has progressed minus their perverse ideas and mindless rituals. Thankfully, most Jews, and increasingly many people of all religious backgrounds, these days, are irreligious and have no place for mumbo jumbo in their lives.

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