Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 72043 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#61527 Oct 30, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe---Put it in context.
My Jewish Learning, extract.
""The Talmud OUTSTRIPS even the Bible in influence and importance. Explicating and building upon the Torah's laws, stories, and ideas, the Talmud also lay the groundwork for new religious sensibilities that stressed scholarship and were attuned to the needs of the Jews in the Diaspora."
Frijoles---Yes,
HughBe--- You are now agreeing with my original assertion which previously you FALSELY claimed was taken out of context. I am asking you to learn this today, unless I am joking it is virtually impossible for me to knowingly take things out of context to mislead. I don't stoop so low.
Frijoles---ask ANY observant Jew and they will tell you that Talmud is BASED upon written Torah, therefore no contradiction in thought process.
HughBe--- WRONG, as usual. Do you know anything as an observant Judahite?
The Talmud is NOT based on written Torah as you so FALSELY assert.
The Talmud is supposedly ORAL Torah, written down. Any intelligent Judahite knows that the Talmud is FALSE and are man-made nonsense and in fact it is the TOOL that has been used to enslave the Jewish people for centuries.
Why can the entire world read and understand the Torah and the BRIGHT Jewish people cannot and so they need the rabbis to express various interpretations to it.
Do this, select any chapter or verse in the Torah that is BEYOND your ability to understand and I shall lighten your darkness, without using the Talmud. It will be interesting to compare TRUTH i.e. my words with what is contained in the Talmud for the passage of your choice.
Frijoles--- You Christians do the same thing when you claim that following Jesus "IS JUST" an evolution of biblical law. Same idea, different religious system.
HughBe--- You are confused. Jesus the Lawgiver did NOT teach contrary to the law. YOUR master/rabbis do.
Doofus

Oral torah is MISHNA,

Talmud is mishna plus gemmara

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index...

As of Jesus - that is matter of opinion, obviously. Thats why Christianity is a whole other religion than Judaism.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#61528 Oct 30, 2013
Susan, explain the passage below. Do so in a step by step way meaning break it down for me. Thanks.

"But ye(PRIESTS) are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have CORRUPTED the covenant of Levi, saith the Lord of hosts."

(PRIESTS)= insert based on my understanding so correct it with yours.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#61529 Oct 30, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Doofus
Oral torah is MISHNA,
Talmud is mishna plus gemmara
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index...
As of Jesus - that is matter of opinion, obviously. Thats why Christianity is a whole other religion than Judaism.
Frijoles---ask ANY observant Jew and they will tell you that Talmud is BASED upon written Torah, therefore no contradiction in thought process.

HughBe--- WRONG, as usual. Do you know anything as an observant Judahite?

The Talmud is NOT based on written Torah as you so FALSELY assert.

The Talmud is supposedly ORAL Torah, written down.

Frijoles---Doofus
Oral torah is MISHNA,
Talmud is mishna plus gemmara

HughBe--- Are you telling me that I am wrong when I said, "The Talmud is supposedly ORAL Torah, written down. "?

If I am not wrong, why the affection of Doofus?
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#61530 Oct 30, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Doofus
Oral torah is MISHNA,
Talmud is mishna plus gemmara
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index...
As of Jesus - that is matter of opinion, obviously. Thats why Christianity is a whole other religion than Judaism.
Your source is impressive. I could not get pass the first couple of sentences. Here they are.

"The Torah is the five books of Moses. It's what's written on the scroll that Jews read from in synagogue.

That is called the "written Torah". It was transmitted orally until Ezra's time."

From the above Moses did not write the Torah, Ezra did. Do you agree with your authoritative source?

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#61531 Oct 30, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
The so called states have no duties silly boy.
Utterly false. States have the duty to provide for the general welfare of the people.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#61532 Oct 30, 2013
The full context of my words are below.

Frijoles said--- Talmud is BASED upon written Torah,

HughBe's response---The Talmud is NOT based on written Torah as you so FALSELY assert.

The Talmud is supposedly ORAL Torah, written down.

FRijoles---Doofus

Oral torah is MISHNA,

Talmud is mishna plus gemmara

HughBe--- Tell me what was wrong with my comment given the context?

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#61533 Oct 30, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh the global warming fear mongering again.
Can you name a successful market that government created?
The science is fully supported by climatologists, who may differ over the rate and degree of temperature increase, but not over the underlying facts that increasing levels of carbon dioxide WILL cause an increase in temperature.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#61534 Oct 30, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
It has never been factually proven that assad used chemical weapons.
Only if you ignore some of the facts...

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#61535 Oct 30, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe---Put it in context.
My Jewish Learning, extract.
""The Talmud OUTSTRIPS even the Bible in influence and importance. Explicating and building upon the Torah's laws, stories, and ideas, the Talmud also lay the groundwork for new religious sensibilities that stressed scholarship and were attuned to the needs of the Jews in the Diaspora."
Frijoles---Yes,
HughBe--- You are now agreeing with my original assertion which previously you FALSELY claimed was taken out of context. I am asking you to learn this today, unless I am joking it is virtually impossible for me to knowingly take things out of context to mislead. I don't stoop so low.
Frijoles---ask ANY observant Jew and they will tell you that Talmud is BASED upon written Torah, therefore no contradiction in thought process.
HughBe--- WRONG, as usual. Do you know anything as an observant Judahite?
The Talmud is NOT based on written Torah as you so FALSELY assert.
The Talmud is supposedly ORAL Torah, written down. Any intelligent Judahite knows that the Talmud is FALSE and are man-made nonsense and in fact it is the TOOL that has been used to enslave the Jewish people for centuries.
Why can the entire world read and understand the Torah and the BRIGHT Jewish people cannot and so they need the rabbis to express various interpretations to it.
Do this, select any chapter or verse in the Torah that is BEYOND your ability to understand and I shall lighten your darkness, without using the Talmud. It will be interesting to compare TRUTH i.e. my words with what is contained in the Talmud for the passage of your choice.
Frijoles--- You Christians do the same thing when you claim that following Jesus "IS JUST" an evolution of biblical law. Same idea, different religious system.
HughBe--- You are confused. Jesus the Lawgiver did NOT teach contrary to the law. YOUR master/rabbis do.
A careful reading of the Torah shows that the existence of an oral law was always assumed. Indeed, the Torah cannot be followed without that oral law, since the Torah has numerous places where it just says "do this" without ever explaining HOW to do it.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#61536 Oct 30, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Frijoles---ask ANY observant Jew and they will tell you that Talmud is BASED upon written Torah, therefore no contradiction in thought process.
HughBe--- WRONG, as usual. Do you know anything as an observant Judahite?
The Talmud is NOT based on written Torah as you so FALSELY assert.
The Talmud is supposedly ORAL Torah, written down.
Frijoles---Doofus
Oral torah is MISHNA,
Talmud is mishna plus gemmara
HughBe--- Are you telling me that I am wrong when I said, "The Talmud is supposedly ORAL Torah, written down. "?
If I am not wrong, why the affection of Doofus?
When you say "oral Torah" to a Jew, that means Mishna. Oral torah that has been written down.

Talmud is oral torah plus commentary (gemmara).

In other words - Talmud is.... Commentary based upon oral torah which is based upon written torah (what you called bible).

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#61537 Oct 30, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
A careful reading of the Torah shows that the existence of an oral law was always assumed. Indeed, the Torah cannot be followed without that oral law, since the Torah has numerous places where it just says "do this" without ever explaining HOW to do it.
You get it. Its the "instruction manual".
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#61538 Oct 30, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
A careful reading of the Torah shows that the existence of an oral law was always assumed. Indeed, the Torah cannot be followed without that oral law, since the Torah has numerous places where it just says "do this" without ever explaining HOW to do it.
Liam---A careful reading of the Torah shows that the existence of an oral law was always assumed.

HughBe--- Greetings, Liam. Please read carefully the passages below and then fit in the ORAL law that you speak of.

" And when Moses had FINISHED writing the words of this LAW in a book to the very end,
25 He commanded the Levites who carried the ark of the covenant of the Lord,"

Focus on things like "Moses had FINISHED writing the words of this LAW"

"There was NOT a(ONE) word of ALL that Moses commanded, which Joshua read not before all the congregation of Israel"

My understanding from the above passages is that EVERYTHING that God command was written. So all ORAL laws are NOT from God but from men.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#61539 Oct 30, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
When you say "oral Torah" to a Jew, that means Mishna. Oral torah that has been written down.
Talmud is oral torah plus commentary (gemmara).
In other words - Talmud is.... Commentary based upon oral torah which is based upon written torah (what you called bible).
HughBe---The Talmud is supposedly ORAL Torah, written down. "
If I am not wrong, why the affection of Doofus?

Frijoles---When you say "oral Torah" to a Jew, that means Mishna.

HughBe--- Are YOU telling me that ONLY a non-Jew would have phrased it the way that I did?

Apart from that point , keep in mind what I was responding to.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#61540 Oct 30, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe---The Talmud is supposedly ORAL Torah, written down. "
If I am not wrong, why the affection of Doofus?
Frijoles---When you say "oral Torah" to a Jew, that means Mishna.
HughBe--- Are YOU telling me that ONLY a non-Jew would have phrased it the way that I did?
Apart from that point , keep in mind what I was responding to.
No, I am stating that someone who doesnt understand the structure and origins of the texts might incorrectly state it that way

I corrected you, thats all

The greater issue is your contention that Jews dont follow Torah. Now that you understand the structure - i.e. how the texts follow each other, you could appreciate how Jews do follow Torah.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#61541 Oct 30, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I am stating that someone who doesnt understand the structure and origins of the texts might incorrectly state it that way
I corrected you, thats all
The greater issue is your contention that Jews dont follow Torah. Now that you understand the structure - i.e. how the texts follow each other, you could appreciate how Jews do follow Torah.
HughBe---The Talmud is supposedly ORAL Torah, written down.

Frijoles---When you say "oral Torah" to a Jew, that means Mishna.

HughBe--- Are YOU telling me that ONLY a non-Jew would have phrased it the way that I did?

Frijoles---No, I am stating that someone who doesnt understand the structure and origins of the texts might incorrectly state it that way

HUghBe--- Are you saying that the rabbis at My Jewish Learning do NOT "understand the structure and origins of the texts"?

Frijoles---I corrected you, thats all

HughBe--- You corrected your rabbis, that's all.

Frijoles---The greater issue is your contention that Jews dont follow Torah.

HughBe--- I have never said any such thing. What I have said many times and it would be a pleasant surprise if you quoted me and do so accurately is that the ORAL laws are man-made and NOT from God.

In addition, I have said that your rabbis have corrupted the scriptures e.g. Noahide laws, woman making someone a Jew, one is not a Jew if s/he is a Christian etc.

The Tanakh declares that your rabbis are CORRUPTERS and are LIARS. Now quote me on these things.

Frijoles---Now that you understand the structure - i.e. how the texts follow each other, you could appreciate how Jews do follow Torah.

HughBe--- Almost half of the Jewish people have nothing to do with Torah. So, cut the attempted DECEPTION. Next, some Jews follow Torah when they follow their Messiah, Jesus the Christ.

Jews like yourself who are Judahites follow the RULES of their masters first and foremost, the Torah is collateral. Your Talmud has PREEMINENCE.

Go study these things now that you are exposed to TRUTH.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#61542 Oct 30, 2013
later
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#61543 Oct 30, 2013
HughBe wrote:
1. Susan, please take your time and reread the passage. "But ye(PRIESTS) are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have CORRUPTED the covenant of Levi, saith the Lord of hosts."
2. Please tell me where you see the priests being called "priests of Baal"
3. Are these the same priest in the same chapter that you said this of, " "For the priests lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the Lord of hosts" Malachi 2:7"
4. Are these the same priests that you said this of " Levites remained PURE"?
I just mean they were priests of idols. Baal is a generic word for a false or pagan god. Those who espouse the bible as the source of their doctrine are required to be pure. They are the messengers of the law. The leaders of the Catholic Church are called "priests", as opposed to minister or pastor.
Voluntarist

United States

#61544 Oct 30, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Utterly false. States have the duty to provide for the general welfare of the people.
Which would include a duty of protection that doesn't' exist, so the courts have ruled.

There is no such thing as a state, fictitious and meaningless in the real world.

And you are perverting the meaning or intent of the general welfare.
The wording in the frivolous us constitution is to promote the general welfare.
Voluntarist

United States

#61545 Oct 30, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Only if you ignore some of the facts...
Which are?
Voluntarist

United States

#61546 Oct 30, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Utterly false. States have the duty to provide for the general welfare of the people.
Can you please explain how a fictitious entity can owe a duty to everyone?

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