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Voluntarist

United States

#51650 May 3, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Freedom (or lack thereof) is not an absolute.
I see it more as a continuum. Some folks/countries are more free than others.
Libertarians think we would do great with total freedom. I don't agree. Man is both good and evil. He needs some checks and balances.
Obviously evil is everywhere that is why men and women dress up and call themselves government and enjoy controlling others.
Freedom is just a charade, there is no such thing as rights.

There are no checks and balances.
Voluntarist

United States

#51651 May 3, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Freedom (or lack thereof) is not an absolute.
I see it more as a continuum. Some folks/countries are more free than others.
Libertarians think we would do great with total freedom. I don't agree. Man is both good and evil. He needs some checks and balances.
So you do believe in some religion, you are using the word evil and you seem to think that another religious documenf called the constitution applies to you too, maybe if some priests put you in prison you would start believing in religion.
Frijoles

Stamford, CT

#51652 May 3, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
So I presume that is your opinion.
Your quote is reminiscent of the dialogue within the novel Catch 22. I not sure that it is a positive.
Frijoles

Stamford, CT

#51653 May 3, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
You are following everyones else obedience to laws withouy evidence that they actually apply to you the same way people go to church every sunday and follow the "scripture" , yet without any facts that it is actually applicable to them. They also believe that they will die and go to heaven.
Oh, laws exist. Break one and you could find out.
Frijoles

Stamford, CT

#51654 May 3, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Freedom (or lack thereof) is not an absolute.
I see it more as a continuum. Some folks/countries are more free than others.
Libertarians think we would do great with total freedom. I don't agree. Man is both good and evil. He needs some checks and balances.
Mr Hobbes to the rescue!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobbes#Leviatha...

In Leviathan, Hobbes set out his doctrine of the foundation of states and legitimate governments – originating social contract theory. Leviathan was written during the English Civil War; much of the book is occupied with demonstrating the necessity of a strong central authority to avoid the evil of discord and civil war.

Beginning from a mechanistic understanding of human beings and the passions, Hobbes postulates what life would be like without government, a condition which he calls the state of nature. In that state, each person would have a right, or license, to everything in the world. This, Hobbes argues, would lead to a "war of all against all" (bellum omnium contra omnes). The description contains what has been called one of the best known passages in English philosophy, which describes the natural state mankind would be in, were it not for political community:[14]

"In such condition, there is no place for industry; because the fruit thereof is uncertain: and consequently no culture of the earth; no navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by sea; no commodious building; no instruments of moving, and removing, such things as require much force; no knowledge of the face of the earth; no account of time; no arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."

— "Chapter XIII.: Of the Natural Condition of Mankind As Concerning Their Felicity, and Misery.", Leviathan

In such a state, people fear death, and lack both the things necessary to commodious living, and the hope of being able to toil to obtain them. So in order to avoid it people accede to a social contract and establish a civil society.

According to Hobbes, society is a population beneath a sovereign authority, to whom all individuals in that society cede some rights for the sake of protection. Any abuses of power by this authority are to be accepted as the price of peace. There is no doctrine of separation of powers in Hobbes's discussion.[15]

According to Hobbes, the sovereign must control civil, military, judicial, and ecclesiastical powers.
Voluntarist

United States

#51655 May 3, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Mr Hobbes to the rescue!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobbes#Leviatha...
In Leviathan, Hobbes set out his doctrine of the foundation of states and legitimate governments – originating social contract theory. Leviathan was written during the English Civil War; much of the book is occupied with demonstrating the necessity of a strong central authority to avoid the evil of discord and civil war.
Beginning from a mechanistic understanding of human beings and the passions, Hobbes postulates what life would be like without government, a condition which he calls the state of nature. In that state, each person would have a right, or license, to everything in the world. This, Hobbes argues, would lead to a "war of all against all" (bellum omnium contra omnes). The description contains what has been called one of the best known passages in English philosophy, which describes the natural state mankind would be in, were it not for political community:[14]
"In such condition, there is no place for industry; because the fruit thereof is uncertain: and consequently no culture of the earth; no navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by sea; no commodious building; no instruments of moving, and removing, such things as require much force; no knowledge of the face of the earth; no account of time; no arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."
— "Chapter XIII.: Of the Natural Condition of Mankind As Concerning Their Felicity, and Misery.", Leviathan
In such a state, people fear death, and lack both the things necessary to commodious living, and the hope of being able to toil to obtain them. So in order to avoid it people accede to a social contract and establish a civil society.
According to Hobbes, society is a population beneath a sovereign authority, to whom all individuals in that society cede some rights for the sake of protection. Any abuses of power by this authority are to be accepted as the price of peace. There is no doctrine of separation of powers in Hobbes's discussion.[15]
According to Hobbes, the sovereign must control civil, military, judicial, and ecclesiastical powers.
Ha!

legitimate government!
Voluntarist

United States

#51656 May 3, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Freedom (or lack thereof) is not an absolute.
I see it more as a continuum. Some folks/countries are more free than others.
Libertarians think we would do great with total freedom. I don't agree. Man is both good and evil. He needs some checks and balances.
Freedom of movement is absolute until it is obstructed.
Voluntarist

United States

#51657 May 3, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, laws exist. Break one and you could find out.
Please provide a factual basis, evidence that the so called law of travelling fast is applicable to me.
People break laws all day long without anything happening to them.
If you think that some guy with a clown suit on makes it applicable then you are illogical.
Voluntarist

United States

#51658 May 3, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Mr Hobbes to the rescue!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobbes#Leviatha...
In Leviathan, Hobbes set out his doctrine of the foundation of states and legitimate governments – originating social contract theory. Leviathan was written during the English Civil War; much of the book is occupied with demonstrating the necessity of a strong central authority to avoid the evil of discord and civil war.
Beginning from a mechanistic understanding of human beings and the passions, Hobbes postulates what life would be like without government, a condition which he calls the state of nature. In that state, each person would have a right, or license, to everything in the world. This, Hobbes argues, would lead to a "war of all against all" (bellum omnium contra omnes). The description contains what has been called one of the best known passages in English philosophy, which describes the natural state mankind would be in, were it not for political community:[14]
"In such condition, there is no place for industry; because the fruit thereof is uncertain: and consequently no culture of the earth; no navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by sea; no commodious building; no instruments of moving, and removing, such things as require much force; no knowledge of the face of the earth; no account of time; no arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."
— "Chapter XIII.: Of the Natural Condition of Mankind As Concerning Their Felicity, and Misery.", Leviathan
In such a state, people fear death, and lack both the things necessary to commodious living, and the hope of being able to toil to obtain them. So in order to avoid it people accede to a social contract and establish a civil society.
According to Hobbes, society is a population beneath a sovereign authority, to whom all individuals in that society cede some rights for the sake of protection. Any abuses of power by this authority are to be accepted as the price of peace. There is no doctrine of separation of powers in Hobbes's discussion.[15]
According to Hobbes, the sovereign must control civil, military, judicial, and ecclesiastical powers.
So an opinion of a dead guy makes your gubment legitimate? Grasping at straws here.

here is an exerp from social contract theory;

legitimacy of the authority of the state over the individual .[1]
Social contract arguments typically posit that individuals have
consented, either explicitly or tacitly, to surrender some of their
freedoms and submit to the authority of the ruler or magistrate
(or to the decision of a majority), in exchange for protection of
their remaining rights . The question of the relation between
natural and legal rights , therefore, is often an aspect of social
contract theory.

First the elements of a contract are not present, and even if it was a legitimate contract it is breached by the fact that there is no duty of the government to protect anyone.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#51659 May 3, 2013
JOEL wrote:
HUGH:
You keep telling me to get a chick to sit on my face.
I did so, today morning.
I made the youngest maid sit on my face (you know I like 'em young...as young as 16 or 17).
Yes, Mon, the youngest maid sat on my face, today.
As I was about to use my tongue, she pissed on my face.
I gagged and spanked her bum and turned her around so that I could get rear entry with my finger and guess what she farted on my face and then it became too much for me to bear and I tossed her on to the floor.
I remain a virgin.
(smiles)
At least you started out correctly but your dream deflowering needs some cleaning up.

EAT,ENTER and ENJOY.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#51660 May 3, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>There were no prisons in ancient Israel, people were stoned to death for serving idols. In modern days, they probably will be imprisoned. Forsaking the Lord also means forsaking his law.
That might have been the condition for a very short time, when Moses was alive and may be some decades after him.

But slowly bulk of Jews fell into idolatry as OT books confirm and the punishment was left only in the books and not in practice.

That holds for most of Jewish and Christian laws, they exist on paper but not used. People read them and say Amen and kill the holy scriptures.

But when the come out of Church and Synagogues (and mosques too, to be honest)... they just forget what they read said Amen to.

Most "religious people" on this earth come under the definition of "Hypocrites".

Those who ask for those laws are termed as Fundamentalists and Extremists.

On the other hand those who do not follow laws passed by their assemblies and parliaments are called as "rebels" .

So it is a complete transformation, our Political Leaders have become our Law givers , they have become like a god to the people.
JOEL

Thane, India

#51662 May 3, 2013
EL, ALLAHA & ALLAH - INTERDEPENDENT BABYLONIAN SADISTIC BEINGS:

1) El is not Hebrew.

2) El is a title/word borrowed by the sadistic Hebrew patriarchs from the barbaric Baal-worshipping cults of the ancient cultures that pre-date the Tanakh. YHVH is a morphed form of El.

3) Allaha of Aramaic, Jesus' crazed heavenly father, is the same Babylonian El.

4) Allah is a variant of the title/word El.

5) Both El as well as Allah are demonic beings.

6) El is a bloodthirsty being of pre-Hebrew days, while Allah, a related or the same ferocious being as El, was worshipped by the pre-Islamic Arabs together with 369 gods/beings in the Kaaba.

7) All that this fiend Muhammad did was to chose Allah from the 360 gods/beings that were venerated by the pre-Islamic Arabs and make it (Allah) his only god.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#51663 May 3, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
No it isnt common sense that some words on a piece of paper apply to anyone, they are just words.
Those words in the bible apply to you too then.
If you say so.
former res

Cheshire, CT

#51664 May 3, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
So you do believe in some religion, you are using the word evil and you seem to think that another religious documenf called the constitution applies to you too, maybe if some priests put you in prison you would start believing in religion.
I see your point but it's a stretch.

I believe Charles Manson is evil.

But I don't this means I believe in god.
IIan

Mississauga, Canada

#51665 May 3, 2013
Both Christianity and Islam are Dangerous religions good were keeping close eye on them in Islam
former res

Cheshire, CT

#51666 May 3, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Mr Hobbes to the rescue!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobbes#Leviatha...
In Leviathan, Hobbes set out his doctrine of the foundation of states and legitimate governments – originating social contract theory.......According to Hobbes, the sovereign must control civil, military, judicial, and ecclesiastical powers.
Yes, we need some order. And don't forget this classic:

Lord of the Flies is a novel by Nobel Prize-winning English author William Golding about a group of British boys stuck on an uninhabited island who try to govern themselves with disastrous results. Its stances on the already controversial subjects of human nature and individual welfare versus the common good earned it position 68 on the American Library Association’s list of the 100 most frequently challenged books of 1990–1999.[2]
former res

Cheshire, CT

#51667 May 3, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Please provide a factual basis, evidence that the so called law of travelling fast is applicable to me.
People break laws all day long without anything happening to them.
If you think that some guy with a clown suit on makes it applicable then you are illogical.
It will be funny when the clown comes and locks you up in his circus tent.

I would buy tickets to that greatest show on earth.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#51668 May 4, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
Please provide a factual basis, evidence that the so called law of travelling fast is applicable to me.
People break laws all day long without anything happening to them.
If you think that some guy with a clown suit on makes it applicable then you are illogical.
Straw argument - we werent talking about laws of physics. We were talking about civil laws and the state

Ask Will Smith is it is illegal to not pay your taxes

We are on rewind. This point has been debated before.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#51669 May 4, 2013
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
So an opinion of a dead guy makes your gubment legitimate? Grasping at straws here.
here is an exerp from social contract theory;
legitimacy of the authority of the state over the individual .[1]
Social contract arguments typically posit that individuals have
consented, either explicitly or tacitly, to surrender some of their
freedoms and submit to the authority of the ruler or magistrate
(or to the decision of a majority), in exchange for protection of
their remaining rights . The question of the relation between
natural and legal rights , therefore, is often an aspect of social
contract theory.
First the elements of a contract are not present, and even if it was a legitimate contract it is breached by the fact that there is no duty of the government to protect anyone.
Just shows that you never received any type of formal education in political theory.(How could you - you are a whackadoo??)

Hobbes is considered a philosopher of the Conservatives...

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#51670 May 4, 2013
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
I see your point but it's a stretch.
I believe Charles Manson is evil.
But I don't this means I believe in god.
Morality is not only defined in religious texts. Its defined in other sources as well, such as popular culture. ATF of all people should know that.

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