Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

Full story: Newsday

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

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Voluntarist

United States

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#51635
May 3, 2013
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Tell me in my day to day life how I follow or believe in the CT state constitution?
I follow the driving laws so that I don't get ticketed.
I pay my taxes to keep the man off my back.
What else am I missing?
You follow these so called laws that flow from the constitution without even kmowing that they apply to you, you are as obedient as those that follow the scripture.
Voluntarist

United States

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#51636
May 3, 2013
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Quite the opposite.
Faith plays no part.
I'm much more of pragmatist than in idealist.
You don't pay your taxes or follow the traffic laws and
you can get arrested and/or fined.
I prefer to not have such legal/civil entanglements.
Besides, everyone else is following the same rules so it's not like I'm being singled out.
So the free country really isnt free, coercive government would you agree?
IceCreamCohen

Hackettstown, NJ

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#51638
May 3, 2013
 
Rick Moss wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course, in Saudi Arabia -- you can get the death penalty for "preaching" anything except Islam.
Jews don't preach -- we don't go knocking on people's doors and asking them if who they pray to or how they do it.
Most of us find it offensive and impolite.
So what? Most Christians find Judaism offensive and polite but we don't imprison you for it. Maybe we should. Tit for tat.
JOEL

Thane, India

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#51640
May 3, 2013
 
IceCreamCohen wrote:
<quoted text>

So what? Most Christians find Judaism offensive and polite but we don't imprison you for it. Maybe we should. Tit for tat.
You mean Most Christians find Judaism offensive and IMPOLITE....

(smiles)
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

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#51641
May 3, 2013
 
IceCreamCohen wrote:
<quoted text>
So what? Most Christians find Judaism offensive and polite but we don't imprison you for it. Maybe we should. Tit for tat.
well so what? G-D has already judged you all, as offensive and impolite to HIM here in TheTorah again. and not just all jews, christians, buddists, agnostics, athiests, asians, europeans, americans, africans, australians, and other muslems religiously also. and the influx of hell on this planet, from all this bs is getting to deep for my hip boots.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

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#51642
May 3, 2013
 
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
So the free country really isnt free, coercive government would you agree?
rabbee: yes you all free to get hell from G-D, for not believing in THEM here in TheTorah again. as obviously you all, think it is worth the price of hell and death. because all your grandmother only think, you got a good deal from the same old devil again.
former res

Cheshire, CT

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#51643
May 3, 2013
 
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
I asked if you believe that it applies to you and you said that you believed that it did, absent any facts that it does.
So you are no better than a religious nut.
If it in fact it does exist, why would it NOT apply to me?

Who do you think it DOES apply to?

This seems like common sense to me.

Are you familiar with that?
former res

Cheshire, CT

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#51644
May 3, 2013
 

Judged:

1

Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
You are following everyones else obedience to laws withouy evidence that they actually apply to you the same way people go to church every sunday and follow the "scripture" , yet without any facts that it is actually applicable to them. They also believe that they will die and go to heaven.
If those two things seem the same to you, then Ok, I am one of the sheep following the laws so I don't get jailed, fined, sued, liens applied to my house etc.

Guilty as charged.

Are you in demand as a dinner guest?
former res

Cheshire, CT

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#51645
May 3, 2013
 
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
So the free country really isnt free, coercive government would you agree?
Freedom (or lack thereof) is not an absolute.

I see it more as a continuum. Some folks/countries are more free than others.

Libertarians think we would do great with total freedom. I don't agree. Man is both good and evil. He needs some checks and balances.
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

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#51646
May 3, 2013
 
IceCreamCohen wrote:
<quoted text>
So what? Most Christians find Judaism offensive and polite but we don't imprison you for it. Maybe we should. Tit for tat.
There were no prisons in ancient Israel, people were stoned to death for serving idols. In modern days, they probably will be imprisoned. Forsaking the Lord also means forsaking his law.
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

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#51647
May 3, 2013
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Freedom (or lack thereof) is not an absolute.
I see it more as a continuum. Some folks/countries are more free than others.
Libertarians think we would do great with total freedom. I don't agree. Man is both good and evil. He needs some checks and balances.
There's also some good and some evil in everyone, even both Satan and God, there is supposed to be iniquity in Gods youth.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

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#51648
May 3, 2013
 
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>There's also some good and some evil in everyone, even both Satan and God, there is supposed to be iniquity in Gods youth.
rabbee: G-D is THE Very Jealous G-D, no goodie two shoes Angel, or demonic personality can out do, G-D'S Good and/or Evil capabilities. so it would be better, to try and out do G-D'S Good. than try to out do, any demonic evil. so don't be cruel, to TheG-D WHO can be crueler to you.
Voluntarist

United States

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#51649
May 3, 2013
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
If it in fact it does exist, why would it NOT apply to me?
Who do you think it DOES apply to?
This seems like common sense to me.
Are you familiar with that?
No it isnt common sense that some words on a piece of paper apply to anyone, they are just words.

Those words in the bible apply to you too then.
Voluntarist

United States

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#51650
May 3, 2013
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Freedom (or lack thereof) is not an absolute.
I see it more as a continuum. Some folks/countries are more free than others.
Libertarians think we would do great with total freedom. I don't agree. Man is both good and evil. He needs some checks and balances.
Obviously evil is everywhere that is why men and women dress up and call themselves government and enjoy controlling others.
Freedom is just a charade, there is no such thing as rights.

There are no checks and balances.
Voluntarist

United States

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#51651
May 3, 2013
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Freedom (or lack thereof) is not an absolute.
I see it more as a continuum. Some folks/countries are more free than others.
Libertarians think we would do great with total freedom. I don't agree. Man is both good and evil. He needs some checks and balances.
So you do believe in some religion, you are using the word evil and you seem to think that another religious documenf called the constitution applies to you too, maybe if some priests put you in prison you would start believing in religion.
Frijoles

Stamford, CT

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#51652
May 3, 2013
 
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
So I presume that is your opinion.
Your quote is reminiscent of the dialogue within the novel Catch 22. I not sure that it is a positive.
Frijoles

Stamford, CT

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#51653
May 3, 2013
 
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
You are following everyones else obedience to laws withouy evidence that they actually apply to you the same way people go to church every sunday and follow the "scripture" , yet without any facts that it is actually applicable to them. They also believe that they will die and go to heaven.
Oh, laws exist. Break one and you could find out.
Frijoles

Stamford, CT

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#51654
May 3, 2013
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Freedom (or lack thereof) is not an absolute.
I see it more as a continuum. Some folks/countries are more free than others.
Libertarians think we would do great with total freedom. I don't agree. Man is both good and evil. He needs some checks and balances.
Mr Hobbes to the rescue!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobbes#Leviatha...

In Leviathan, Hobbes set out his doctrine of the foundation of states and legitimate governments originating social contract theory. Leviathan was written during the English Civil War; much of the book is occupied with demonstrating the necessity of a strong central authority to avoid the evil of discord and civil war.

Beginning from a mechanistic understanding of human beings and the passions, Hobbes postulates what life would be like without government, a condition which he calls the state of nature. In that state, each person would have a right, or license, to everything in the world. This, Hobbes argues, would lead to a "war of all against all" (bellum omnium contra omnes). The description contains what has been called one of the best known passages in English philosophy, which describes the natural state mankind would be in, were it not for political community:[14]

"In such condition, there is no place for industry; because the fruit thereof is uncertain: and consequently no culture of the earth; no navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by sea; no commodious building; no instruments of moving, and removing, such things as require much force; no knowledge of the face of the earth; no account of time; no arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."

"Chapter XIII.: Of the Natural Condition of Mankind As Concerning Their Felicity, and Misery.", Leviathan

In such a state, people fear death, and lack both the things necessary to commodious living, and the hope of being able to toil to obtain them. So in order to avoid it people accede to a social contract and establish a civil society.

According to Hobbes, society is a population beneath a sovereign authority, to whom all individuals in that society cede some rights for the sake of protection. Any abuses of power by this authority are to be accepted as the price of peace. There is no doctrine of separation of powers in Hobbes's discussion.[15]

According to Hobbes, the sovereign must control civil, military, judicial, and ecclesiastical powers.
Voluntarist

United States

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#51655
May 3, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Mr Hobbes to the rescue!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobbes#Leviatha...
In Leviathan, Hobbes set out his doctrine of the foundation of states and legitimate governments originating social contract theory. Leviathan was written during the English Civil War; much of the book is occupied with demonstrating the necessity of a strong central authority to avoid the evil of discord and civil war.
Beginning from a mechanistic understanding of human beings and the passions, Hobbes postulates what life would be like without government, a condition which he calls the state of nature. In that state, each person would have a right, or license, to everything in the world. This, Hobbes argues, would lead to a "war of all against all" (bellum omnium contra omnes). The description contains what has been called one of the best known passages in English philosophy, which describes the natural state mankind would be in, were it not for political community:[14]
"In such condition, there is no place for industry; because the fruit thereof is uncertain: and consequently no culture of the earth; no navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by sea; no commodious building; no instruments of moving, and removing, such things as require much force; no knowledge of the face of the earth; no account of time; no arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short."
"Chapter XIII.: Of the Natural Condition of Mankind As Concerning Their Felicity, and Misery.", Leviathan
In such a state, people fear death, and lack both the things necessary to commodious living, and the hope of being able to toil to obtain them. So in order to avoid it people accede to a social contract and establish a civil society.
According to Hobbes, society is a population beneath a sovereign authority, to whom all individuals in that society cede some rights for the sake of protection. Any abuses of power by this authority are to be accepted as the price of peace. There is no doctrine of separation of powers in Hobbes's discussion.[15]
According to Hobbes, the sovereign must control civil, military, judicial, and ecclesiastical powers.
Ha!

legitimate government!
Voluntarist

United States

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#51656
May 3, 2013
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Freedom (or lack thereof) is not an absolute.
I see it more as a continuum. Some folks/countries are more free than others.
Libertarians think we would do great with total freedom. I don't agree. Man is both good and evil. He needs some checks and balances.
Freedom of movement is absolute until it is obstructed.

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