Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

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“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#48591 Feb 5, 2013
idgaf wrote:
<quoted text>
Did I mis-read? Page 1 talks to an increase in aide and Israel receiving the most aide in history. Maybe I mis-read. I was not referring to oil in Israel. I know that there is very little there. It just happens to be in the middle of many other countries that have an abundance of oil and other natural resources. So, the interest has got to be strategic location. Or it might be that we just want to be nice and helpful to our neighbors and allies who tend to spy on us a lot? Relationship of convenience.
You are correct that HISTORICALLY Israel has received enormous amounts of aid.

But CURRENTLY, this is no longer true for the factors already cited (Iraq, the development of the modern Israeli economy etc etc). Time has moved on, and Israels dependency has moved as well.

That past vs present is an important distinction.

So when people start discussing the issue of aid to Israel, often in my experience its either that they are unaware of the actual current facts, OR they are pushing a political agenda that supercedes any fact. In your case I assumed it was the former, not the latter.

I agree that our American geo-strategic concerns are more than oil. Our concerns are about global stability and terrorism. The middle east as a crossroads has always been an unstable place, and the delineation of post-colonial borders without regard to the natural peoples has exacerbated this instability. As a large nation-state I would hope that it is in our interest to do anything that fosters global stability. That includes allying with states with common interests in democracy and western values, as they are obvious partners with a common stake.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#48592 Feb 5, 2013
G71 wrote:
01. Why do you believe, what you believe?

When did you start believing what you believe?

02. Were you born into your religion?
Did you choose your religion later in life?

03. The "boy in the box" -I have read about "which is a good idea, just not practical.

If it could be though, and the boy was never taught anything about any god then which god would He choose? Why?
Ans.

01. When you are born into any society, you "first" try to copy the beliefs of your parents. This is the initial phase. But when you grow up and meet different people and study books, you get extra info and then your "family taught" beliefs gets diluted.

When people get to adulthood, they choose different paths for themselves. This is very common, otherwise every one would be following exactly the path of their parents.

02. I was born into a Muslim family, but as I grew older and I studied Islam, my faith grew stronger and I do not argue on the basis because I was born as a Muslim.

I speak with reason and logic. There are many who were born into Muslim family but they do not follow Islam.

And there are many who were born into Non Muslim families and then accepted Islam. I have compiled responses from some of them as to why they accepted islam.

03. If you put a boy in isolation, he will never believe in any of the idols and shapes and Trinity and God becoming a Human etc.

He will believe in a shapeless God that is Creator of this Universe. People who have studied the lives of tribes living in jungles isolated from other humans have come to the same conclusion.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#48593 Feb 5, 2013
Clear wrote:
01. If any Christian is seeking to find the true teachings of Jesus then they should take All inspired teachings of Jesus into account, not just those of one person.

02. Many hang their Christian hat on St. Peter, and even say God has started and built His church on Peter.

03. I believe that anyone can take the verse these people use to prove they are right, and simply look a few verses further, to prove they are not.
Ans.

I do not get what are you trying to say or prove.

It is very correct to say that one should look at "all the teachings" of jesus if one wants to follow the path of Jesus.

Just taking one verse from here and there and then making it as the fundamental article of your faith is not correct.

And that is precisely all these sects and denominations have done. They take one verse or a part of verse and make that as of "fundamental importance" and then separate themselves from others.

They say that they follow truth and scripture….but in reality they follow their own vain desires.

Allah Knows best.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#48594 Feb 5, 2013
JOEL wrote:
Creation from nothing is fiction.
As good a T shirt slogan as anything

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#48595 Feb 5, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
why compare REAL/Jesus with fiction/Homer, wise child?
Mon, you're effin BRILLIANT!

We would never 've come up with a question like that.:P

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#48596 Feb 5, 2013
LOANS Israel itself got nothing for free.
Now it's based on import export.
And do distinguish between what goes to the areas and Israel itself and f.i. to churches that owe land in Israel and that are organised in N.G.O.'s.. Billions have gone to 'palestinians'.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#48597 Feb 5, 2013
MAAT wrote:
LOANS Israel itself got nothing for free.
Now it's based on import export.
And do distinguish between what goes to the areas and Israel itself and f.i. to churches that owe land in Israel and that are organised in N.G.O.'s.. Billions have gone to 'palestinians'.
Yes, in the mix are a couple of subtleties which were glossed over.

Its been based on import/exports for quite a few years now. A requirement of the aid is that a certain percentage of it must be used to buy American products - I actually have a friend who works in international development whose job it is to find such eligible products as a condition of American foreign aid (not specifically to Israel, but to everywhere which gets US military aid).

And I dont think I even mentioned the NGO aid, of which very little, if any, go to the Jews.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#48598 Feb 5, 2013
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
Mon, you're effin BRILLIANT!
We would never 've come up with a question like that.:P
But he still doesnt get it.

(and) he still doesnt realize that Rabbi Boteach is not a Messianic Christian.
Eric

Bensenville, IL

#48599 Feb 5, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
But they are unwelcome in Isreal.... I think they should remove the title "Jew" from their names and live in any country of the world.
Exactly, Mecca

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#48600 Feb 5, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.

03. If you put a boy in isolation, he will never believe in any of the idols and shapes and Trinity and God becoming a Human etc.
He will believe in a shapeless God that is Creator of this Universe. People who have studied the lives of tribes living in jungles isolated from other humans have come to the same conclusion.
The oldest human religion, and the most commonly encountered tribal religion, is shamanism.

Most forms of Islam are not shamanistic, though the sufis come close in their use of altered states.

Shamanism (pron.:/&#712;&#643; &#593;&#720;m&#601 ;n/ shah-m&#601;n or /&#712;&#643;e&#61 8;m&#601;n/ shay-m&#601;n) is a practice that involves a practitioner reaching altered states of consciousness in order to encounter and interact with the spirit world.[2] A shaman is a person regarded as having access to, and influence in the world of benevolent and malevolent spirits, who typically enters into a trance state during a ritual, and practices divination and healing.[3]
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#48601 Feb 5, 2013
JOEL wrote:
Creation from nothing is fiction.
rabbee: that is not a good excuse, for you to be all not here in TheTorah fiction.

and just because you reject, the true name of TheStory of Creation we are all here in. does not mean we are, not all here in IT again.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#48602 Feb 5, 2013
JOEL wrote:
Religion is redundant!
rabbee: the never changing truth, is always redundantly spoken. as only the lies of the world, constantly change to your evil need.

truth is much simpler, than the lie. since you do not have to remember, all the fictional false reality crap you made up.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#48603 Feb 5, 2013
lies give the illusion, of making your own knows grow. peenokieknows!

no G-Dless government, has ever had any real peace. and here you all are, still without peace in the world.

the type of guy, who'll try anything once. so i would not repeat, the same mistake. untill i discovered, it's still all the same mistake without G-D.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#48604 Feb 5, 2013
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
Mon, you're effin BRILLIANT!
We would never 've come up with a question like that.:P
HughBe---why compare REAL/Jesus with fiction/Homer, wise child?

Maat---Mon, you're effin BRILLIANT!

HughBe--- Thanks Maat, it is a GIFT.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#48607 Feb 5, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe---why compare REAL/Jesus with fiction/Homer, wise child?
Maat---Mon, you're effin BRILLIANT!
HughBe--- Thanks Maat, it is a GIFT.
“Irony is wasted on the stupid”
&#8213; Oscar Wilde
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#48608 Feb 5, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I never DOUBTED the existence of historical Jesus. In fact, numerous times I have cited Boteach myself, and in fact it was me that offered him to you. HOWEVER, I never said Jesus absolutely existed either. I am agnostic on the matter.
So lets put that STRAW ARGUMENT digression out of the way, and return to my earlier question which created this round of discussion.
My position is that truth is truth, whether it comes from sci fi, or cartoons, or "religious" texts - those are merely mediums.
HughBe---"myopic head" is interesting. Here is a secret, it was one of a series of posts to prove a point. In addition, any honest and moderately intelligent person who reads their comments on the matter would not take it to mean that they believe that Jesus was a work of fiction.

Frijoles---I never DOUBTED the existence of historical Jesus. In fact, numerous times I have cited Boteach myself, and in fact it was me that offered him to you. HOWEVER, I never said Jesus absolutely existed either. I am agnostic on the matter.

HughBe--- Really? Are you conscious of the things that you WRITE? Do you understand the utter RUBBISH that you habitually write? NO.

Take your time and follow your own words. YOUR words,"I never DOUBTED the existence of historical Jesus..... I am AGNOSTIC on the matter."

Genius what is the meaning of AGNOSTIC? Reconcile you being an AGNOSTIC with you NEVER doubting.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#48609 Feb 5, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I never DOUBTED the existence of historical Jesus. In fact, numerous times I have cited Boteach myself, and in fact it was me that offered him to you. HOWEVER, I never said Jesus absolutely existed either. I am agnostic on the matter.
So lets put that STRAW ARGUMENT digression out of the way, and return to my earlier question which created this round of discussion.
My position is that truth is truth, whether it comes from sci fi, or cartoons, or "religious" texts - those are merely mediums.
Frijoles---Silly child, I never said Homer was real

HughBe---why compare REAL/Jesus with fiction/Homer, wise child?

Frijoles---All i asked was that you prove that your DELUSION figure was any less fictitious than my delusion figure

HughBe--- In what way is Jesus a "DELUSION figure"?
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#48610 Feb 5, 2013
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
“Irony is wasted on the stupid”
&#8213; Oscar Wilde
HughBe---why compare REAL/Jesus with fiction/Homer, wise child?

Maat---Mon, you're EFFIN BRILLIANT!

HughBe--- Thanks Maat, it is a GIFT.

Frijoles---“Irony is wasted on the stupid”

HughBe--- Well said, YOU "effin" FOOL.
former res

Newtown Square, PA

#48632 Feb 5, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe--- In what way is Jesus a "DELUSION figure"?
Actually it is your burden to prove or at least show evidence that your Jesus is NOT a delusion.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#48633 Feb 5, 2013
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe---"myopic head" is interesting. Here is a secret, it was one of a series of posts to prove a point. In addition, any honest and moderately intelligent person who reads their comments on the matter would not take it to mean that they believe that Jesus was a work of fiction.
Frijoles---I never DOUBTED the existence of historical Jesus. In fact, numerous times I have cited Boteach myself, and in fact it was me that offered him to you. HOWEVER, I never said Jesus absolutely existed either. I am agnostic on the matter.
HughBe--- Really? Are you conscious of the things that you WRITE? Do you understand the utter RUBBISH that you habitually write? NO.
Take your time and follow your own words. YOUR words,"I never DOUBTED the existence of historical Jesus..... I am AGNOSTIC on the matter."
Genius what is the meaning of AGNOSTIC? Reconcile you being an AGNOSTIC with you NEVER doubting.
Being agnostic on the matter means I have no proof either way. I am nuetral. Vs being atheistic. Since we are talking about a historic fact, not a deity, this is an adaptive use of the actual word.

Anyone intelligent would of figured that out.

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