Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

Full story: Newsday

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

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“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#47033
Jan 15, 2013
 
idgaf wrote:
<quoted text>
I've been amused, entertained and at times educated with the broad scope of topics most of which don't have much to do with the main topic. A silly question, some of these are interesting topics, why not give them their own forum? I'm sure many do not participate here cause they see the Messianic Jews blah blah and don't care about the topic. The cast of characters doesn't leave you wanting hehehhe.
They do get their own forum, but there are only so many participants, and when you dilute people among multiple threads, the threads die off too easily.

This forum is like a swingers party. Instead of sex, we have "intellectual" exchanges. Single partners, multiple partners, even if you dont like your partner you are likely back for more after other experiences.

Hows that for unflattering imagery?

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#47034
Jan 15, 2013
 

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MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
These people are agents of Devil , if not the Devil in human forms!!
Boo!

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#47035
Jan 15, 2013
 
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
I did read his book in the first place!!
And I did not just commented his "pygminess" based on any prejudice.
These people decide their "Mission" before even writing the book.
If they want to picture some one as "devil"….they first make a picture of "devil" in their mind.
Then they start "looking for evidence"…and they collect one piece from here and one piece from there (all from "Authentic Islamic Book" no doubt) and then piece together to complete their picture of Devil.!!
A person who does not have actual knowledge of his mission is impressed by his deep knowledge of Islamic books.
His books are full of contradictions….They "usually" start with what great man our prophet was, his sincerity his calmness, his determination, his steadfastness….all positive traits.
Then one by one he breaks all these qualities and present the prophet as a "forger" "A sooth sayer" "A crafty man" a "Cruel man, "A sex maniac"… what happened to the "positive traits shown earlier"? All vanished in thin air!!
With each episode , they offer different explanation of his character…. All contradictory with each other.
This is the attitude of all such Western Scholars who write about the life of our prophet from "Authoritative Islamic Sources".
And people who do not know Arabic language and not aware of Islamic way of analysis and criticism are "taken in" by their writers.
I can find excuses for people who have no knowledge and talk from what they read in the papers and media…. But no excuse for these "knowledgeable people" who try to Create Falsehood from the Truth.
These people are agents of Devil , if not the Devil in human forms!!
You really dont think you dont do the same towards us?

Do you know the meaning of the term "Self reflection"?

““You must not lose faith ”

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#47037
Jan 15, 2013
 
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
I did read his book in the first place!!
And I did not just commented his "pygminess" based on any prejudice.
These people decide their "Mission" before even writing the book.
If they want to picture some one as "devil"….they first make a picture of "devil" in their mind.
Then they start "looking for evidence"…and they collect one piece from here and one piece from there (all from "Authentic Islamic Book" no doubt) and then piece together to complete their picture of Devil.!!
A person who does not have actual knowledge of his mission is impressed by his deep knowledge of Islamic books.
His books are full of contradictions….They "usually" start with what great man our prophet was, his sincerity his calmness, his determination, his steadfastness….all positive traits.
Then one by one he breaks all these qualities and present the prophet as a "forger" "A sooth sayer" "A crafty man" a "Cruel man, "A sex maniac"… what happened to the "positive traits shown earlier"? All vanished in thin air!!
With each episode , they offer different explanation of his character…. All contradictory with each other.
This is the attitude of all such Western Scholars who write about the life of our prophet from "Authoritative Islamic Sources".
And people who do not know Arabic language and not aware of Islamic way of analysis and criticism are "taken in" by their writers.
I can find excuses for people who have no knowledge and talk from what they read in the papers and media…. But no excuse for these "knowledgeable people" who try to Create Falsehood from the Truth.
These people are agents of Devil , if not the Devil in human forms!!
OOOEEH an outright lie.
You did not read the book first.
I know you are familiar with f.i. Guilleaume since i quoted him extensively as well as some other more modern western writers. But if you are going to claim that the professor Margoliouth is all these people combined in one person we've stretched the byzantian to a kairoism.
So You are intimitely acquainted with all the people mentioned in the footnotes! That predate the western writers mentions by others in other threads.
Well that just can't be since a while back you never even heard of them.
(It's not that i can envisage you outguessing my next contribution and pre-read thus during my absesnse. Though you should be aware that i pick up on those little remarks like f.i. unfamiliarity or gross exagerations.)

It's only natural that the professor would point out that some behaviour would be consider contra western mores, though he frankly gave an example of a man living with the native americans and their alien ways, that serve however as an example of the way other cultures think and reason.

But i have not come upon any rant. Or outright polemics as you suggest.

So no MUQ you have not read the book.
Though i posted it so you could get familiar with a different approach. Alexander the Greats story is also not all roses and sunshine. Empire builders are usually not, but this book is about the conditions that enabled the man, a study as such.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#47038
Jan 15, 2013
 
As to the duality also found in the traditins on Mohammed...well isn't it said that this is explained as being to serve as an example to all man. So they can recognize themselves in his life and choose a better path.

At least i came across that apology.

It is the new fad to present the prophet as all good. That political correctness i spoke about before, that makes people change texts.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#47039
Jan 15, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
You really dont think you dont do the same towards us?
Do you know the meaning of the term "Self reflection"?
Interestingly some psychologists think that this is actually impossible.(Apart from a lot of processes that the mind has no control over. So even awareness, or 'I', or conscious would be a fiction.)
Only others can hold up the mirror to out wanton behaviours.
Even if we think about ourselves we can keep on doing that forever, but it would not change an iota, for it would still be the same conscious doing the thinking.
For innovation and creative change of behaviour you would frankly have to introduce a period of random behaviour.

And boy oh boy does that sound wrong here.
It's not as if we are lacking that.:))

““You must not lose faith ”

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#47040
Jan 15, 2013
 
Just wiki for D.S. Margoliouth and let me enlighten you on f.i. Snouck Gurgronje, who was by the way offered a professorship at the National Egypt University in Cairo in 1925.

Christiaan Snouck Hurgronje (8 February 1857 – 26 June 1936) was a Dutch scholar of Oriental cultures and languages and Advisor on Native Affairs to the colonial government of the Netherlands East Indies (now Indonesia).

Born in Oosterhout in 1857, he became a theology student at Leiden University in 1874. He received his doctorate at Leiden in 1880 with his dissertation ‘Het Mekkaansche Feest’("The Festivities of Mecca"). He became a professor at the Leiden School for Colonial Civil Servants in 1881.

Snouck, who was fluent in Arabic, through mediation with the Ottoman governor in Jeddah, was examined by a delegation of scholars from Mecca in 1884 and upon successfully completing the examination was allowed to commence a pilgrimage to the Holy Muslim city of Mecca in 1885. He was one of the first Western scholars of Oriental cultures to do so.

A pioneering traveler, he was a rare Western presence in Mecca, but embraced the culture and religion of his hosts with passion, converting to Islam.

---
So MUQ, no more fibbing.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#47041
Jan 15, 2013
 
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
Interestingly some psychologists think that this is actually impossible.(Apart from a lot of processes that the mind has no control over. So even awareness, or 'I', or conscious would be a fiction.)
Only others can hold up the mirror to out wanton behaviours.
Even if we think about ourselves we can keep on doing that forever, but it would not change an iota, for it would still be the same conscious doing the thinking.
For innovation and creative change of behaviour you would frankly have to introduce a period of random behaviour.
And boy oh boy does that sound wrong here.
It's not as if we are lacking that.:))
I am not looking for self actualization.

Just a minor reflection on ones own actions before one criticizes another for being a zealot.

MUQ doesnt even Google to perform this - so he has no excuse.

“Legumes of the World Unite ”

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#47042
Jan 15, 2013
 
MUQ doesnt even NEED Google to perform this - so he has no excuse.

(Frijoles does NEED a good editor.)

““You must not lose faith ”

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#47043
Jan 15, 2013
 
Interesting comment....uhhh

What i was getting at, actually was that MUQ just has the same tune bouncing in his head forever.

So would self reflection not also mean self actualisation with a twist?

Maybe we should simply tell him not to project anymore.

MUQ did not even google.

(we could both do with an editor, or a secretary friend.)

““You must not lose faith ”

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#47044
Jan 15, 2013
 
The jewish definition of faith is a stumbling block not only to R.
I got a comment that i must be stating pistis.

Apropos pistis sophia, i found J. Rendel Harris.
On the (origin jewish proselyte)psalms of solomon and the earliest christian Odes of Solomon.
Written in old Syriac, end of the first century in Antioch, where christianity was invented.

Especially Ode 19 is of interest. Also because it looks like a later text but still an odd one out given the trinitarian idea (though maybe for other reasons). It is definitely not gnostic.

quote

ODE 19.

Fantastic and not in harmony with the other Odes. The reference to a painless Virgin Birth is notable.

1 A cup of milk was offered to me: and I drank it in the sweetness of the delight of the Lord. 2 The Son is the cup and He who was milked is the Father: 3 And the Holy Spirit milked Him: because His breasts were full, and it was necessary for Him that His milk should be sufficiently released; 4 And the Holy Spirit opened His bosom and mingled the milk from the two breasts of the Father and gave the mixture to the world without their knowing: 5 And they who receive in its fulness are the ones on the right hand. 6 The Spirit opened the womb of the Virgin and she received conception and brought forth; and the Virgin became a Mother with many mercies; 7 And she travailed and brought forth a Son, without incurring pain; 8 And because she was not sufficiently prepared, and she had not sought a midwife (for He brought her to bear) she brought forth, as if she were a man, of her own will; 9 And she brought Him forth openly, and acquired Him with great dignity, 10 And loved Him in His swaddling clothes and guarded Him kindly, and showed Him in Majesty. Hallelujah.

http://www.goodnewsinc.net/othbooks/odesolmn....
But other
Gtown71

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#47045
Jan 15, 2013
 
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
The $30 is accounted for. The hotel got $25, the clerk takes $2, and the men get a $3 refund.
25+2+3 =30
If your point of this story is to show your inability to reason through a logic problem, you've succeeded ;-).
The points in my prior post stand.
My point is to let you know, that thing happen in this world that has nothing to do with logic.
It amazes me how people can open their mind into believing some of the wildest things, but to other wild sounding things -they just close their minds.
Religious people do the same thing.

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#47046
Jan 15, 2013
 
Gtown71 wrote:
My point is to let you know, that thing happen in this world that has nothing to do with logic.
If anything, your story reinforces my point, not yours. Your story was a riddle designed to confuse the reader. In attempting to analyze the riddle, people tend to go with their initial instincts (much like they do with religion or try to explain something they don't understand). It's lazy thinking that leads to incorrect assumptions. In the end, though, I have shown that it is logic and a proper understanding of mathematics that yields the truth, not some subjective, intuitive experience.
Gtown71 wrote:
It amazes me how people can open their mind into believing some of the wildest things...
Like rising from the dead, walking on water, turning water into wine? I agree. It amazes me how people can believe such wild things.

At least with evolution, we have compelling, physical evidence across multiple, scientific disciplines all converging on the same conclusion. No theory in the history of science has been so thoroughly tested and withstood so many attacks by the unenlightened. You really should make an attempt to understand the science better rather than making lazy assumptions.
former res

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#47047
Jan 15, 2013
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
...This forum is like a swingers party. Instead of sex, we have "intellectual" exchanges. Single partners, multiple partners, even if you dont like your partner you are likely back for more after other experiences.
Hows that for unflattering imagery?
I like it!

Instead of swapping bodily fluids, we swap our invaluable opinions and pithy comments.

Good stuff!

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#47049
Jan 15, 2013
 
idgaf wrote:
I see truth and understanding of stories and philosophies that people have individually. I fail to see connections with God. I fail to see that although you are all very knowledgable about the early languages that one of you can make the connections with God. I do see a lot of knowledge or perceived knowledge.
I reiterate, why did God not reveal Himself to the American Indians (America being the new world)? There were also many others who didn't get the memo. Why? Why theJews? Why the Arabs? Why the Romans?
The most likely explanation is that god did not reveal himself to them because he does not exist. They are just made up stories. Every culture/society has their own stories. Some stories tend to stick around, most likely because they served some useful purpose for a period of time. Many others die out as they outlived their usefulness.

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#47050
Jan 15, 2013
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
I like it!
Instead of swapping bodily fluids, we swap our invaluable opinions and pithy comments.
Good stuff!
I feel like I need a shower.

““You must not lose faith ”

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#47055
Jan 15, 2013
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
I like it!
Instead of swapping bodily fluids, we swap our invaluable opinions and pithy comments.
Good stuff!
Like that episode of Fairly Legal were the guys ask why that judge keeps asking them back, and even at home, and get the reply that is is indeed sex on an intellectual level.
"She get's of on your minds."

The judge in question had been married to a real goodlooking stud.
So needed some different stimulation.

I can dig that, but the bit on needing a mental shower too. lol
former res

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#47068
Jan 15, 2013
 

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Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
I feel like I need a shower.
Certain opinions and/or comments will have that effect!

Mr. Trump (among others) comes to mind...
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

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#47069
Jan 15, 2013
 

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Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
The $30 is accounted for. The hotel got $25, the clerk takes $2, and the men get a $3 refund.
25+2+3 =30
If your point of this story is to show your inability to reason through a logic problem, you've succeeded ;-).
The points in my prior post stand.
GTown 71----Now, instead of each man being out 10 dollars each for the room, they are only out 9 dollars each.

Yet 9 times 3 = 27 + the 2 dollars the clerk stoled only comes to 29, so what happened to the other dollar?

Culti---The $30 is accounted for. The hotel got $25, the clerk takes $2, and the men get a $3 refund.
25+2+3 =30

HughBe--- My dear Culti, you have ACCOUNTED for the $30 but have NOT answered the question i.e. what happened to the other dollar?

The answer is NOTHING. It is in the $27. The addition of the two dollars to the $27 is double counting and so wrong.

Actual cost to the men $27 (25+2)
Refund 3
Original funds $30

The "9 times 3 = 27 + the 2 dollars the clerk stoled" is just a magic trick. If the refund was added you would get $32 or more money than the original $30 given, see below. Also, the $27(9 times 3) dollars ALREADY contains the stolen $2 and so to add another stolen $2 is double counting and foolish.

$27(9*3)+$2(stolen)+3(refund)= $32
former res

Broomall, PA

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#47071
Jan 15, 2013
 
Huggybear

Do you enjoy Blue Mountain Coffee?

Do you say "Mon" at the end of each sentence?

Just curious.

Have you shined yourself today?

Admired yourself in the mirror?

Missed me?

Happy New Year, if it's not too late..

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