Messianic Jews say they are persecute...

Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

There are 72039 comments on the Newsday story from Jun 21, 2008, titled Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel. In it, Newsday reports that:

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Newsday.

HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#45330 Dec 12, 2012
HughBe wrote:
bye-Frijie.
Are you the dim-wit who is ALWAYS putting the helpful icon on my post when I depart?
former res

Broomall, PA

#45331 Dec 12, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
Why Climate Change Denial Is Just Hot Air
http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2012...
It’s nonsense. And worse, it’s dangerous nonsense. Because they’re fiddling with the data while the world burns.
As I recall, at the time Al Gore made the Inconvenient Truth film, I think the number of peer-reviewed articles seriously questioning Global Warming was zero. Only articles in the "popular press" took this position.

I found the film and the information very convincing indeed.

I recently saw someone explaing how deniers mis-use date in an attempt to show decling temperatures.

They grab a few years out of the overall trend to show brief periods of decline, called:

Global Surface Temperature: Going Down the Up Escalator

You see it graphically

http://skepticalscience.com/going-down-the-up...
former res

Broomall, PA

#45332 Dec 12, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
I might add that is a fundie interpretation.
Jews usually interpret those passages as an admonishment to use proportional compensation - I.E. If someone looses an eye they should be duely (financially) compensated - no less, no more.
I get it.

So that way we don't everyone blind.

;)

I try not to take any of it too literally.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#45333 Dec 12, 2012
Cult of Reason wrote:
<quoted text>
I think the prospect of actually learning something that would conflict with his religious beliefs would be enough to scare him away from even attempting to take the class. Got to protect the integrity of the bubble he lives in at all costs.
I would take the class. The difference between say a classmate like you and me is that I would THINK while you would ACCEPT.
former res

Broomall, PA

#45334 Dec 12, 2012
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
My only problem with your post is that YOU did not take the time to teach me to spell STUPID, fellow.
On my keyboard the U is beside the I. It takes someone with your INTELLIGENCE level not to realize that it was a typo. Actually I am acquainted with the word STUPID both in terms of its spelling as well as YOU.
You must have a very unusual keyboard configuration.

Is it a Jamaican model?
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#45335 Dec 12, 2012
wasting time. later.
Frijoles

Litchfield, CT

#45336 Dec 12, 2012
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe---Please FOCUS and try your best to address my post in an intelligent way. Thanks in advance.
Frijoles---If you are a jew, in MOST likelihood you either practice the religion OR are related to someone that does.
HughBe--- Do you have any idea the percentage of Jews that are secular? Clearly NOT. Your "MOST likelihood you either practice the religion.. " is very FOOLISH to say the least.
Now, so what if you are related to someone who practices Judaism? Does that make you a Judaite like you? NO.
If you are related to a Christian does that make you a Christian? NO.
Does the relationship with a believer makes the atheist Jew a believer in God? Does it mean that they have not rejected the way of God?
Where do you get these strange doctrines? Is in in the scriptures? NO. Is it from your rabbis? Most likely YES. As such, it is an example of why I call your rabbis IDIOTS and DECEIVERS. Explain the role of BLOOD relationship that you have no turned to. What are you really saying here?
Back to the outstanding matters.
Frijoles---"An ethnoreligious group (or ethno-religious group) is an ethnic group of people whose members are also UNIFIED by a common religious background."
HughBe--- Please explain to me how such a quote supports your point about Jews being an ethno-religious group.
HELP: Specifically, tell me how YOU and the other Judaites are UNIFIED in religion with other Jews who do NOT share your religious beliefs or who do NOT have any type of RELIGION e.g. ATHEISTS
Nothing in that above verbiage contradicts the definition I posted

As of your comment about unified - I am not aware of any other religion except Judaism that Jews practice. Maybe you have another religion in mind?
former res

Broomall, PA

#45337 Dec 12, 2012
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Former---It is NOT perverson anymore than is your supposed attraction to women.
HughBe--- Why is this so?
It is on you to say why something is sick, not for nme to say why not.

Again, you are after me to prove or explain a negative.

Why would you suggest it is sick or unnatural for two consenting adults to express their affectione for one another?

Why do you care so much what happens in the bedrooms of others?
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Former--We do NOT control whom we are ATTRACTED to or whom we love.
HughBe--- Do you ever THINK? Of course not. I believe that the paedophiles are glad that you have made such an INTELLIGENT and VALID point.
The key words are: consenting adults.

Molesting animals (such as your donkey friend) or children is not Ok. Same with forcing anyone to do anything. Rape for example. Big no no.

Do you now begin to see?
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe--- I know from the words used by you that you have a science background.
True. At the graduate level.
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
In your mind, conducting tests equates to PROOF? This is not a science question so please answer.
You need to know the difference between proof and evidence.

Please reasearch "The Scientific Method"

Paticular attention to the building of an hypothesis, what evidence is needed to make something a theory etc.

Note that gravity is still only a theory, but also what big hurdle even that status requires.

Religion is simply not subject (nor should it be) to this level of scrutiny.
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
REcall I asked YOU for PROOF in your BELIEF. YOU have none and which by definition= FAITH and in fact BLIND faith.
You want me to "prove" what I BELIEVE?

Is this correct?

It is true that not everything I believe has absolute proof.

But I would argue that much or most of it has evidence.
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Former--Do you help out around the house? Cleaning, laundry, marketing etc?
What is your contribution?
HughBe--- YES, YES and YES. Contribution is as answered. What else do you want to know?
It sounds as though you "pull your weight" around the house.

Did you also do midnight diaper changes on your kids?
Frijoles

Litchfield, CT

#45338 Dec 12, 2012
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
First things first. Address my post below e.g.do the reconciliation and answer the questions e.g. what is genetics etc.
HughBe--- what is genetics? Is it BIOLOGY ? What is the meaning of MIXTURE? Could it be the combination of two or more things?
So you speak of MIXTURE and part of that MIX is RACE/genetics.
Frijoles---Hence the term ETHNO-RELIGOUS....
HughBe--- BS. It is a tool that is used to enslave others. I have demonstrated this countless times. You shall now be given the opportunity to do it yourself.
Tell me about the RELIGIOUS aspect of atheists, agnostics and other secular or non-RELIGIOUS Jews.
Do you suppose that the Jews in Jamaica observe the culture of Jamaica? What is culture?
Reconcile your make-belief with the reality.
1. Hence the term ETHNO-RELIGOUS....
HughBe--- BS. It is a tool that is used to enslave others

YES, wikipedia that great tool of satan

2. Do you suppose that the Jews in Jamaica observe the culture of Jamaica? What is culture?

Well, you wouldnt call them "Jews" if there wasnt something ethnically or religiously distinct about them in the first place.

Once again, you are living in your head with your own private rules and vocab.
Frijoles

Litchfield, CT

#45339 Dec 12, 2012
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Had you been an American you would have learnt long ago that RACE is a MAJOR issue in the US. Given that you are slow you really should have learnt even in 2012 and in fact it played a major part in the American election for president.
The more educated whites and younger ones voted based on their BRAINS older ones like you voted based on your feelings whatever those are.
Do the research, sometimes you can leave Israel your homeland and visit and look at other countries.
Again, what you are calling race is really skin color. Why are you even wasting time on this?
Frijoles

Litchfield, CT

#45340 Dec 12, 2012
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HELP: Specifically, tell me how YOU and the other Judaites are UNIFIED in religion with other Jews who do NOT share your religious beliefs or who do NOT have any type of RELIGION e.g. ATHEISTS
You are confusing me with your made up language.

Kindly post something from another credible link that defines your term Judaite.
former res

Broomall, PA

#45341 Dec 12, 2012
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe--- Please, let us stick to my simple questions. Please respond to them. Once again,reconcile your "ethnoreligious" with atheists Jews.
Atheist Jews are no longer ethnoreligious Jews.

They are now simply ethnic Jews.

Why is this so difficult to comprehend for you?
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you a Religious atheist?
No.

I'm an Irish-American atheist.

Nice to meet you.
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
HughBe--- so, how can a great many Jews who are atheists and agnostics be ethnoreligious?
See the first question and response.
Frijoles

Litchfield, CT

#45343 Dec 12, 2012
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
First things first. Address my post below e.g.do the reconciliation and answer the questions e.g. what is genetics etc.
HughBe--- what is genetics? Is it BIOLOGY ? What is the meaning of MIXTURE? Could it be the combination of two or more things?
So you speak of MIXTURE and part of that MIX is RACE/genetics.
Very interesting but lets return to the original context that provoked this discussion.

I believe you were making reference to the term "Jewish race".

Former and I corrected you that Jews were not a race, they were an ethno-religious group. Nothing you have posted since that has changed our assertion. Furthermore, we have defined our terms from third party sources that reinforce our assertion.

The long shot is that we could continue to talk about the appropriateness of using the term race vs genetics, vs relatedness, vs ethnicity vs ethnoreligious etc etc ALL IN THE GENERAL SENSE - but in the long run this is all moot because the original discussion was grounded in a discussion of the best term to define Jewry.

And to date, you have neither offered a better descriptive term NOR posted anything that negates the definition we provided.
Frijoles

Litchfield, CT

#45344 Dec 12, 2012
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheist Jews are no longer ethnoreligious Jews.
They are now simply ethnic Jews.
Why is this so difficult to comprehend for you?
FROM wiki (again)

Ethnoreligious communities define their ethnic identity NEITHER exclusively by ancestral heritage NOR simply by religious affiliation, but often through a combination of both-

(a long shared history; a cultural tradition of its own; either a common geographical origin, or descent from a small number of common ancestors; a common language, not necessarily peculiar to the group; a common literature peculiar to the group; a common religion different from that of neighbouring groups; being a minority or being an oppressed or a dominant group within a larger community).

-----
I would add that if the atheistic Jew still have any of those ties within their consciousness that are listed above, they are still "ethinc" Jews. And if they loose those cultural ties, and the religion, simply, they are no longer Jews (and why would they be at that point?).

And if that same former ethnic atheistic Jew, who is now fully assimilated, is reminded that his mom was Jewish, the fact that this fact is now on the table, now makes that person a (ethnic) Jew, at least for the time being.

You are correct - it really isnt that complicated.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#45345 Dec 12, 2012
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
When I made my comment, I was thinking about life in general and what to believe and what not to believe.
For example, I REJECT many of the teachings of the church that I currently attend.Why? Doctrines must harmonise with scriptures for me to accept them. In essence I don't follow or are influenced by others.
Beyond that I have observed that many "experts" are not genuine intelligence. What you have are people who study hard acquire knowledge but who lack genuine UNDERSTANDING.
The state of the nations tell you this. THere are those who sample 50 persons and then make generalize statements about over 300,000,000 persons. These are the "experts" that Frijoles respect but I deem them for what they are, FOOLS.
rabbee: well i do not believe anyone, in this world today. i think the whole world, is in some kind of false projected fantacy la-la land.

i, do not think this world has ever accepted. how they have so highly underestimated just how sneaky and counter-intelligent, the subtle beasts of the fields really are. by so highly overestimating, themselves. and so few willing to admit, they have been or are being conned.
MUQ

Qatif, Saudi Arabia

#45346 Dec 12, 2012
Which “Sword” the Prophet Used against his enemies: Part-6

Enemies of Islam represent our prophet as a very cruel and blood thirsty man, who would kill his “opponents, enemies and any one who disagreed with him” at “the drop of hat” and all his adversaries would be “terrified” at the mere sight of him.

The picture is far from true, let us look at some incidents from the life of prophet, as what was “this sword which killed the enmity for ever”

The Case of : HIND BINT UTBAH BIN RABEAH

A. Early History:

She was the daughter of Utbah bin Rabeah, one of the Chiefs of Makkah. She was wife of Abu Sufian, another Chief of Makkah and she was the mother of Muawiah , Fifth Caliph of Islamic state. So from every angle her was a dignified position.

When prophet declared his mission in Makkah, both her father Utbah and her husband Abu Sufian became staunch enemies of Islam. She inherited hatred of Islam from both directions and was enemy of Islam by any standard.

When prophet migrated to Medina and the first battle took place between Makkan and Muslims at the place of Badr, her husband was leading the Trade Caravan, which was one reason for the battle. Her father was head of Makkan army.

Her father, her uncle and her brother (Utbah, Shaibah and Waleed) were the first three Makkan who were killed in individual combats, before the general fighting started. They were killed by Hamzah, prophet’s Uncle, Ali, Prophet’s cousin and Ubaidah, prophets cousin.

These three deaths of close family members at the hands of so close relatives of prophet, made her almost mad with rage.

B. Hind and the Battle of Ohud:

This battle which took place in 3AH was to take the revenge for the battle of Badr. In this battle, Hind was leading groups of Makkan women that were singing battle songs and encouraging their men to fight.

Hind devised a plan to kill Hamzah, the uncle of prophet, who had killed her father and brother at Badr. She told one Abyssinian slave that if he killed Hamzah, he would be set free. The slave looked for Hamzah and finding an opportunity, killed him with his lance.

When news reached Hind, she found the corpse of Hamzah, cut his nose and ears and hung them as garland around her neck…..then she opened his stomach and took out the liver….she tried to chew it, but spat after a few bites.

And she left the corpse of Hamzah in that condition in the battle field. Following her action, other Makkan women disfigured corpses of other martyred Muslims.

When prophet saw the condition of his uncle’s body after the end of battle, he was extremely pained….he vowed to do the same to copses of unbelievers, but was told by God to refrain from it.

This incident shows the spiteful nature and passion of that great woman!!

(Contd.)

MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#45347 Dec 12, 2012
C: How did prophet “slay” her:

When prophet captured Makkah in 8 AH, he announced a general amnesty to all Makkah people. Abu Sufian had accepted Islam just days before capture of Makkah, prophet gave him amnesty and told that any one who will take refuge in his house will be granted amnesty.

After order was restored, prophet took the pledge of Islam, from every one in Makkah, first men and when no one was left…he took the pledge from women also.

Hind, also appeared before prophet, disguised so that she might not be recognized and the following dialogues took place:

“I will worship Allah and will make no partners with him” Said the prophet

“I accept this” said Hind

“I will not commit adultery or fornication” said prophet

“Can any honorable women do such things” said Hind

“I will not kill my children” said the prophet

“We raise them and then you kill them” said Hind

“Are you Hind” asked the prophet?

“Yes” replied Hind

“I will not steal” said the prophet

“I take some money from Abu Sufian’s purse because he is miser, is it also stealing” said Hind

“If you take what suffice you and your children , then it is OK” said the prophet.

So the pledge was taken and Hind said

“O prophet of Allah, when I came here, no face was more disagreeable to me than your face and now it is most beautiful of All faces” said Hind

Such was Hind daughter of Utbah, one of the victims of “sword” of our prophet!!

Source: Companions of Prophet: by Talib Hashmi
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#45353 Dec 12, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Hence the term ETHNO-RELIGOUS....
HughBe--- BS. It is a tool that is used to enslave others
YES, wikipedia that great tool of satan
2. Do you suppose that the Jews in Jamaica observe the culture of Jamaica? What is culture?
Well, you wouldnt call them "Jews" if there wasnt something ethnically or religiously distinct about them in the first place.
Once again, you are living in your head with your own private rules and vocab.
Frijoles---Well, you wouldnt call them "Jews" if there wasnt something ethnically or religiously distinct about them in the first place.

HughBe--- Indeed there is something DISTINCT about them i.e. RACE. In the same way we call other Jamaicans; Indians, Chinese, Syrians etc. in other words we identify them in terms of their ancestry.

Frijoles---Once again, you are living in your head with your own private rules and vocab

HughBe--- BS noted. Now, ADDRESS the outstanding matters below.

HughBe--- what is genetics? Is it BIOLOGY ? What is the meaning of MIXTURE? Could it be the combination of two or more things?
So you speak of MIXTURE and part of that MIX is RACE/genetics.

Frijoles---Hence the term ETHNO-RELIGOUS....

HughBe--- BS. It is a tool that is used to enslave others. I have demonstrated this countless times. You shall now be given the opportunity to do it yourself.

Tell me about the RELIGIOUS beliefs of atheists, agnostics and other secular or non-RELIGIOUS Jews.

HughBe---Do you suppose that the Jews in Jamaica observe the culture of Jamaica? What is culture?


Reconcile your make-believe with the reality.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#45355 Dec 12, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, what you are calling race is really skin color. Why are you even wasting time on this?
Frijoles---Again, what you are calling race is really skin color

HughBe--- I believe that your stupidity cannot only be the result of Judaism it must be genetics.

When CNN speak about black votes or white votes are they speaking about RACE or skin colour?

Oh, skin colour account for the Jewish NOSE,in your sick head, or is it Judaism that gives Jews a Jewish nose?

Take your time and read slooly.

Had you been an American you would have learnt long ago that RACE is a MAJOR issue in the US. Given that you are slow you really should have learnt even in 2012 and in fact it played a major part in the American election for president.

The more educated whites(RACE) and younger ones voted based on their BRAINS older ones like YOU voted based on your feelings whatever those are.

Do the research, sometimes you can leave Israel your homeland and visit and look at other countries.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#45357 Dec 12, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
You are confusing me with your made up language.
Kindly post something from another credible link that defines your term Judaite.
Son, I have not yet started to confuse you.

Let me play your foolish game.

Specifically, tell me how YOU and the other members of Judaism are UNIFIED in RELIGIOUS beliefs with Jews who do NOT share your religious beliefs or who do NOT have any type of RELIGIOUS beliefs e.g. ATHEISTS and other SECULAR Jews.

How do you get UNITY here? Your continued efforts to dodge and to TWIST things underscore the nature of your religion JUDAISM.

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