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Urm Omma

Tewksbury, MA

#45047 Dec 8, 2012
So, I'm curious. Why does the US care and help Israel so much? Weapons. Money. Backing. What resource is in Israel that we have such a great interest in? I see that all of Israel's neighbors have oil. Is Israel simply a good place to attack from if it comes to that?

I get the Holy Land and all of that good stuff, but is there any other reason?
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#45048 Dec 8, 2012
Hugh Be wrote:
MUQ---I know NUTTY and CORRUPT men are the problem

HughBe--- Thank you MUQ for understanding the issue. Case closed.

MUQ--No Mr. Hugh Be,Just identifying Corrupt and NUTTY is not the end of matter, it is just the beginning!!

HughBe--- Certainly identifying the problem cannot be the solution to it but it is the FIRST step.

MUQ--Why are you running away from discussion?

HughBe--- I'm not

MUQ---On the other hand I see that you carry on “endless and perpetual discussions” with other people?
Why double standards, might I ask?

HUghBe--There is no double standard. The thing is some other posters communicate more often with me for a variety of reasons including ATTACKING my views. As a result there are more frequent and greater exchanges with them and also greater familiarity which makes me feel free to ask them anything.

Take my boy Frijoles, just recently I asked him about his DREAMS the fellow did not answer. He was too shy it seems.
Ans.

So let us go ahead with our discussion. Who is nutter and who is corrupt.

How to identify them and isolate them, so people can have peace in the land.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#45049 Dec 8, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
1.

You wouldn’t know anything about running away from a discussion, would you?

2.

Thank you for admitting it. Jews are the original Palestinians.

3.

Deflection. the point was, that if someone is firing missiles and sending suicide bombers over to you, the rational response is to fight back.

I don’t Israel begging for peace - they haven’t done it in the past. Time is not on the Palestinian side.

4.

yes, or no: Does the PA have a police force?
yes or no: Does the PA have an economy?

5.

Doesn’t add to the discussion

Zionism is a part of the religion, it predates the current conflict by about 3000 years. Its in the Jewish prayers which are at least that old. The notion that Zionism started in the 1880s is not accurate. Its been around a few thousand years BEFORE Mohammed.

6.

our list is exaggerated. For example, infants don’t get killed on a "daily" basis...assination of leaders isn’t just done by Israel etc etc...

The point is that you stated that Israelis were nutty and that the Palestinians were not. There is NOTHING in my original list of Palestinian nuttines that you can refute with a straight face. Nada.

7. So you sympathize with suicide bombers? I thought you had morals?
Ans.

A. Running Away: Why would I know about it? But there is difference between running away and from “closing a discussion”. When we have a couple of mails putting forward our views, there might be much advantage in continuing “endless and perpetual discussion” on the same issue.

B. Jews being “original Palestinians”: You must be working in the “twisting department” if you derived that meaning form my post.

I said when Jews came near the land of Palestine, it was already populated with millions of inhabitants. Whom Jews killed in millions and dispossessed them.

There modern day children did exactly the same thing!! When they came to the land of Palestine it was populated by millions of people, who were living there for 1200 years.

C. Sending Missiles and rockets: If I was you, I would look what is the root cause of the problem and try to solve it. Why would some one try to blow himself, unless there was some valid reason behind it?

C1. Israel not begging for peace: I said a time will come, when they will beg for peace. Time will tell, on whose side it is. What has happened to Jews so many times in their history, why it could not be repeated?

D. PA and Police Force: Yes I know the type of Police force they have, whose headquarter is “routinely surrounded” by Israeli Army. That is the sort of “policing” you want them to have?

E. So now Zionism has become part of religion? So Jihad is also part of Islamic religion, why should you complain?

F. Infants being killed daily: So you are “happy” or “sorry” that they are not being killed on daily basis? In your media it might not be “News” any more, but in our TV s we see them almost every day.

Assassination of many HAMAS and PLO and PA people has been done by Israel and they even boast about it. It seems you only read selected portion for the news.

G. I said Jews were nutty? I never said that, it is yet to be agreed who is Nutty and who is corrupt.

H. I sympathize with Suicide Bombers?

My stand is very clear, I am against killing of any innocent man, women and children, irrespective of which religion, nationality or ethnicity it might be.

In my eyes, a suicide bomber who blows himself to kill innocent men, women and children, is as guilty as a Pilot who fires missiles and bombs into civilian populated areas. Both of them knowingly kill innocent men, women and children.

This is the moral I have.
MUQ

Dammam, Saudi Arabia

#45050 Dec 8, 2012
Which “Sword” the Prophet Used against his enemies: Part-2

Enemies of Islam represent our prophet as a very cruel and blood thirsty man, who would kill his “opponents, enemies and any one who disagreed with him” at “the drop of hat” and all his adversaries would be “terrified” at the mere sight of him.

The picture is far from true, let us look at some incidents from the life of prophet, as what was “this sword which killed the enmity for ever”

The Case of : IKRIMAH BIN ABU JAHL BIN HISHAM OF MAKHZOOM TRIBE

A. Early History:

Ikrimah was the son of Most Hateful of all enemies of Makkan enemies of our prophet. His father was Famous Abu Jahl, who was avowed enemy of prophet. Both father and son were hardcore enemies of prophet during his stay in Makkah.

His father used to physically torture early Muslims and he even killed the first two earliest Muslims slaves in Makkah.

Ikrimah , was young, warrior and an accomplished youth of Makkah. But he inherited the enmity of prophet from his father.

When his famed father was killed in the famous Battle of Badr, his hatred for Islam and Prophet only went on high gear.

B. After death of His father:

In the battle of Ohud, he took part in the battle and was incharge of the one flank of front cavalry section of Makkan army. When the tide of battle turned against Muslims, he and Khalid were the reason for that turn.

He took part in the Battle of Trenches that took place in 5AH, and he was at the rear of Makkan retreating army, to protect it from being attacked.

When prophet conquered Makkah in 8 AH, Ikrimah was the one, who attacked one of Muslim army’s division, he fled after loss of 7 or so dead.

C. How did prophet “slay” him:

Due to his crimes against Muslim, Prophet did not name Ikrimah in the general amnesty which he extended to most of Makkah people.

Ikrimah fled Makkah, fearing for his life and boarded a ship to take him to Abyssinia. While he was in ship, a storm engulfed the ship….Ikriamah beseeched his idols , Lat and Uzzah for deliverance….his companions of ship told him “In these situations, Lat and Uzzah are of no help…..you should call on Allah only, He alone can give you deliverance”!!

Ikrimah was shocked to hear this, He said “that is what the Prophet is preaching, how fool I was all these days, if I am safe from this storm, I will go and accept his faith”

Meanwhile his wife approached prophet and said “My husband has fled Makkah in fear of his life, will you grant him pardon also, prophet agreed to her request and asked her to bring him back, he gave her, his turban as a sign for pardon.

His wife found her returning husband, and they came to prophet, on seeing Ikrimah, prophet rose from his seat and embraced him, Ikrimah accepted Islam and became a true Muslim.

(Contd.)


Source: Companions of Prophet: by Talib Hashmi
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#45051 Dec 8, 2012
D. His life after Islam:

In order to save him embarrassment, prophet told his companions, that no one should criticize his father, when he is around.

He was a warrior and very good soldier with leadership skills. Prophet used him on many missions and after his death, Abu Bakr, the first Caliph used him in all major battles to curb internal strife in Arabia, after death of prophet.

He took part in the famous Battle of Yamamah against false prophet Muslaimah. He also took part in Iraqi campaigns.

During the reign of Second Caliph Omar, he was part of Muslim army in the famous battle of Yarmouk. He was leading one faction of army along with Khalid bin Waleed.

The Muslim army was outnumbered atleast one to five in that battle and fighting continued for three days and more.

When Muslim armies were feeling too much pressure, Ikrimah stood up and said “I have faought many battles against the prophet and never turned my back, how can I turned my back against these unbelievers? Who will take a pledge of Death with me?”

Four hundred of his fellows took the pledge and they attacked enemies and turned the tide against them, they all died in the battle field one after other, including Ikrimah!!

Dying Ikrimah was brought to the commander Khalid bin Waleed, who gave him water and took his head on his lap and said “you fulfilled the pledge which you took to the prophet”.

Such was Ikrimah, whom prophet “Killed using his Sword”!!
Frijoles

Madison, CT

#45052 Dec 8, 2012
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
So let us go ahead with our discussion. Who is nutter and who is corrupt.
How to identify them and isolate them, so people can have peace in the land.
Mashaal: Hamas won't recognize Israel
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-431 ...

"The West Bank, Gaza Strip and Israeli Arabs are united in the path of resistance, Jihad and the shahids," he told the elated masses....

"Palestine is ours from the river to the sea and from the south to the north. There will be no concession on an inch of the land," he said.

"We will never recognize the legitimacy of the Israeli occupation and therefore there is no legitimacy for Israel, no matter how long it will take."

The politburo chief continued: "Jihad and the armed resistance is the only true path to liberation."

He congratulated the militants who were able to target cities in central Israel, saying that "We don't kill Jews because they are Jews. We kill the Zionists because they are conquerors and we will continue to kill anyone who takes our land and our holy places.
Frijoles

Madison, CT

#45053 Dec 8, 2012
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
D. PA and Police Force: Yes I know the type of Police force they have, whose headquarter is “routinely surrounded” by Israeli Army. That is the sort of “policing” you want them to have?
E. So now Zionism has become part of religion? So Jihad is also part of Islamic religion, why should you complain?
F. Infants being killed daily: So you are “happy” or “sorry” that they are not being killed on daily basis? In your media it might not be “News” any more, but in our TV s we see them almost every day.
D&F:
Thank you for back tracking. I accept your apology for lying

E.It has ALWAYS been part of the Jewish religion to yearn for return to our land, for about the last 2500 years. Its been a fixed part of our liturgy, which has been fixed for 2500 years. Zionism is older than your religion. http://www.aish.com/jl/h/cc/48939022.html
Zionism is different than Jihad - there is no glory in death or any concept of martyrdom. Muslims were never kicked out their ancestral homeland.

Frijoles

Madison, CT

#45054 Dec 8, 2012
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
In my eyes, a suicide bomber who blows himself to kill innocent men, women and children, is as guilty as a Pilot who fires missiles and bombs into civilian populated areas. Both of them knowingly kill innocent men, women and children.
This is the moral I have.
You make it sound like there is some type of equivalence.
You ignore the fact that
a) Hamas hides behind the civilian population
b) Most of the damage (and all of the intended damage) in Gaza was to military targets.

Basically you are spewing rhetoric. Similar to your earlier claim that "there is no Palestinian police force" etc etc
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#45055 Dec 8, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
and what makes you think, that even kissinger was ever true?
rabbee: well really do not care, if any one is true to anyone else in this world. since that is, the general basis of lying.
Frijoles

Madison, CT

#45057 Dec 9, 2012
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Even though Muslims and Blacks and Hispanic are same in numbers as Jews, but No US president makes any "vow" to them for the safety, security and protection of them.
!!
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/00000...

Black persons, percent, 2011 (a) 13.1%
Persons of Hispanic or Latino Origin, percent, 2011 (b) 16.7%

Muslim Population 1.8%
http://www.muslimpopulation.com/America/

Jewish Polulation 2.1%
http://www.jewishdatabank.org/PopulationStati...

In case it escaped you, we have a BLACK president who, if it wasnt for the HISPANIC vote, in all likelihood would not have been reelected. That speaks for itself.
Frijoles

Madison, CT

#45060 Dec 9, 2012
I find it curious that I couldnt say the word L O I N without censorship. Must be the Jewish vegans.
Frijoles

Madison, CT

#45061 Dec 9, 2012
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
1. Extreme Claims:
As Jews say "Palestine is given to us for an everlasting possession" why would they object if the other party makes the same comment?
That is where they should sit and talk about the "real peace".

02. You have the scale of Truth and lie in you hands, what you decide; every one should bow their heads to your judgment. More than that I cannot say.

03. Dreaming about Palestine:
There is no harm to "dream about your dream land" for 2500 years or more, there is no harm done to anyone when you keep on dreaming. But ground realities are different.
They were given many chances to convert their dream into reality in a "rightful manner", but they missed it.
Had they listened to the message of Jesus, they would have ruled over whole of Europe and USA, but they missed the bus.
Then they got another chance, if they would have accepted the message of Last and Final Prophet, they would have ruled the whole land of Palestine for ever. But they missed the bus again.
If they keep on missing the busses again and again, they have to accept what is in store for them.
Why they want to convert their "dreams into reality"? I do not know, dreams are very good and they do not cost anything, neither to them nor to any one else!!
Many Jews, myself included would be more than happy to accomadate a Palestinian state ALONGSIDE the Jewish state.

But our hands are tied everytime some lunatic like Mesaal proclaims he wants to throw the Jews into the sea, and millions of Palestinians cheer.

What do you realistically expect the Israeli response should be to that?

That is the reality on the ground.
Frijoles

Madison, CT

#45062 Dec 9, 2012
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Ans.
03A Zionism and Jihad:
Of course they have to be different. Jihad is about to give one's life for the cause. While Zionism is to work with intrigue and use others to work for you. One gets the bullet on the chest and other stabs you in the back.
How they could be same.?

4. HAMAS hiding behind the Civilians:
It is not always the case, we have photos of Israeli army and military shooting at point blank range women and children.
But today media and power is in your hand, you can make black and white and white as black.
Things always do not remain the same, who should know it better than Jews!!
It is strange that they did not learn any lesson from their past history and repeated the "same mistake" which their forefathers did 3000 years back!!
There is something which people never learn!!
3. Jihad leads to civilian casualities. How can you NOT have a problem with that?

Your statement about Zionism is rhetoric, as usual.

4. More rhetoric on your side. Nothing new there.
Frijoles

Madison, CT

#45063 Dec 9, 2012
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Had they listened to the message of Jesus, they would have ruled over whole of Europe and USA, but they missed the bus.
Then they got another chance, if they would have accepted the message of Last and Final Prophet, they would have ruled the whole land of Palestine for ever. But they missed the bus again.
If they keep on missing the busses again and again, they have to accept what is in store for them.
In other words, if we would of just shut up and been good Christians or good Muslims, then there would of been no conflict between us and you guys.

Do you realize how LAME your comment sounds? How ILLOGICAL?

What size L O I N cloth do you wear?
Frijoles

Madison, CT

#45064 Dec 9, 2012
Hey Judging Fan,

You are lagging again.

I didnt know Sunday was a big day for the mosque.
former res

Newtown Square, PA

#45065 Dec 9, 2012
What happened to the Christian chick from Jamaica?
Frijoles

Madison, CT

#45066 Dec 9, 2012
former res wrote:
What happened to the Christian chick from Jamaica?
http://glbtqja.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/mi...
Frijoles

Madison, CT

#45067 Dec 9, 2012
FR,
Re: our discussions on settlements
http://www.jta.org/news/article/2012/12/06/31...
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#45068 Dec 9, 2012
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
In other words, if we would of just shut up and been good Christians or good Muslims, then there would of been no conflict between us and you guys.
Do you realize how LAME your comment sounds? How ILLOGICAL?
What size L O I N cloth do you wear?
rabbee: one might add, that the one misnamed as jesus. was not as critical of any other government, but the errant ysraelee government and lawmakers. since all the problems of ysrael or any country, beguin with ysrael or any country. the outside threat is nothing, compared to the internal threat.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#45069 Dec 9, 2012
rabbee yehoshooah adam wrote:
<quoted text>
rabbee: one might add, that the one misnamed as jesus. was not as critical of any other government, but the errant ysraelee government and lawmakers. since all the problems of ysrael or any country, beguin with ysrael or any country. the outside threat is nothing, compared to the internal threat.
in a democracy, we the corrupted perverts elect our means of idol destruction from within. in all other forms of government, it is elected for your corrupt perversions.

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